Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren's@boss", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOX.3582 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 You know what? Let’s make this a game where we just log in and instantly get everything we want?! Why would we need some challenge and some chaos in games right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 @FOX.3582Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes[/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOX.3582 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 @Astralporing.1957 said:@FOX.3582Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes[/sarcasm]Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 @FOX.3582 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@FOX.3582Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes[/sarcasm]Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...And yet you like it so much that you even post in the game forums, like I do, by the why. Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal will return to play it again. Don't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOX.3582 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 @Pirindolo.9427 said:@FOX.3582 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@FOX.3582Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes[/sarcasm]Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...And yet you like it so much that you even post in the game forums, like I do, by the why. Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal will return to play it again. Don't you agree?I don’t skip it and have 0 problems with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 @FOX.3582 said:@Pirindolo.9427 said:@FOX.3582 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@FOX.3582Yes, because, obviously, the content can either be punishingly difficult, or laughably easy, there's nothing in between those two extremes[/sarcasm]Nothing in this game goes beyond “laughably easy” though ...And yet you like it so much that you even post in the game forums, like I do, by the why. Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal will return to play it again. Don't you agree?I don’t skip it and have 0 problems with it.Luckily, the times in which Louis XIV said "L'État, c'est moi" are long forgotten.But just in case, I will clarify my statement: Let's keep trying to improve this great game with things like removing S.A. from Sirens, so a lot of people that are now skipping that fractal (you are not included among them) will return to play it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edu.6984 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I actually enjoy LFG posts of "Siren at boss" and other T4 at boss in general. Normally I can join them with a full support healbrand and carry the group without much problem to get some quick fractal encryptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just remove SA all together. From the day it was introduced it has been antithetical to what gw2 was advertised as, and its combat system. Better yet, lets just remove all instabilities and instead put that effort into making more challenge motes like 99 and 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Siren's Reef has other issues and would need a rework besides removing yet again an instability from a fractal.Is Siren's Reef hard? No.Is it harder relative to most other T4 fractals? Yes.Primarily the mechanics which go against the games combat design would need adressing, aka the flood of enemies. Most combat skills are not designed to hit more than 5 targets, as such the amount of enemies spawned is contrary to how the combat in this game is designed. A possible solution would be to change the phases (or rather add phases with limited amount of enemies). Another thing could be to remove excess enemies after canon phases, the objective has been completed, no reason for these sponges to hang around.I'm not really affect myself since running CMs it's seldom to have issues on this fractal (though I have had situations where some player would leave even in CM groups, rare as it may happen). It's just not really a fun fractal. Also while reworking SIren's Reef, have another go at the Underwater Fractal. The only reason this doesn't come up as much complaint wise is the rarity with which it appears, but that one is most definatly redesigned for the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Cleave, boon strip, and condi clear.if your group's damage sucks, then kill the adds. (use pulls). Also please don't rely on a scourge to cheese the fractal for you; it just means you don't learn anything and end up sadface when you have to do it yourself. I personally hate Hamstrung the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Another thing could be to remove excess enemies after canon phases, the objective has been completed, no reason for these sponges to hang around.The enemies was removed after the canon phase in my run (T4 daily, roughly 2 days ago?). Not sure if its intended or the group I was with triggered something for it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 @"Cyninja.2954" said:Is it harder relative to most other T4 fractals? Yes.That's the key. Combined with some set of instabilities (like SA), it becomes a nightmate for average pugs. In any case, it is not the difficulty what worries me, but the lack of people that want to run it, specially when the insts are a pain. When you play T4 and the last fractal is 78, It is quite common to see 1 or 2 players leaving the group.It's just not really a fun fractal.So true. It follows the rule of the new "After 99&100" fractal style: spam a lot of ground circles and tons of adds. Just because.Also while reworking SIren's Reef, have another go at the Underwater Fractal.100% agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 @"Pirindolo.9427" said:It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren's@boss", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.leave it be, if you cant do it then dont do it. let people that can do it, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Pirindolo.9427" said:It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren's@boss", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.leave it be, if you cant do it then dont do it. let people that can do it, do it.For you and all the "git gud" boys that don't read: Again, and last time: it is not a matter of how difficult it is, but a matter of how bad design fractals keep more and more ppl skipping them from the daily run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasi.9065 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 @Pirindolo.9427 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Pirindolo.9427 said:It's self explanatory. The rate of (miserable) failure of Siren's with S.A. is the highest of any fractal ever. You can see a lot of LFG messages saying: "Siren's@boss", "T4 (except for siren's)"... But the worst thing is that S.A. punishes you for doing what you have to do in the boat fight.leave it be, if you cant do it then dont do it. let people that can do it, do it.For you and all the "git gud" boys that don't read: Again, and last time: it is not a matter of how difficult it is, but a matter of how bad design fractals keep more and more ppl skipping them from the daily run.Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.SA is fine.Sirens Reef is fine.What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Yes, definitely, the mentality of needing to change players to fit the content, instead of making the content to fit the players is a genius approach, really. Too bad it never works.The approach of making players that dislike a certain content play that content by offering the incentives that are too good to pass on works way better, but ultimately it also doesn't end well.One would think that after years of seeing this in action more people would realize that, but it seems there are always those that think that this time it will work better.(btw, Siren's reef is definitely badly designed. It lacks the kind of mechanics that would make it into a interesting and challenging experience for the better groups, but has a lot of those that can make it anything from very annoying to absolute murder for the less skilled players. Basically, it doesn't offer anything interesting to anyone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 how bout just delete siren, seems like it is the most hated fractal, dethroning aquatic by a long milei was laughing when Deroir said he refuses to do siren on the recent teatime :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasi.9065 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 @crepuscular.9047 said:how bout just delete siren, seems like it is the most hated fractal, dethroning aquatic by a long milei was laughing when Deroir said he refuses to do siren on the recent teatime :lol: He just doesnt like it. Its not about it being too difficult or an instability being too difficult. Or the combination of both. For him, Sirens Reef really drove home that there will never be a fractal CM - ever. And that any new fractal we get, will be a storymode one. For someone that loves fractal cms, that hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Well, we could have a Siren's Reef CMGets thrown out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 @Yasi.9065 said:Heres the thing though. Fractal instabilities are just additional mechanics to deal with. Some are easier to deal with, others are more difficult. Some are annoying, some you can basically ignore because you already have the toolkit to deal with them easily.So far we agree. Every people agree on that. Nothing new.SA is fine.Correction: SA is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.Sirens Reef is fine.Correction: Siren's Reef is fine for you. I consider the opposite, and you know that the majority of the playerbase is closer to my opinion than yours.What needs to change is the mentality of fractal pugs. Instead of skipping it you should find a way to deal easily with it.Are you serious? So Anet should change its business? Instead of developping (and changing) a game to attract more players, they should dedicate themselves to manipulate the mind of their potential playerbase? Social engineering? Come on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 People who struggle with Siren's Reef should honestly do more PvP and learn to control their space usage and dodges. It's not a hard fractal unless you're 1st time and no one bothers explaining the mechanics of the last fight.And SA isn't even that bad, you have to be reaaaaaaaally close for it to proc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Instability isn't so effective if there is more build diversity in your group.It's most punishing if your teams is largely made up of your typical melee players.Gets some ranged builds on your team and it won't be as much of a problem, nor will any mechanic in the game that's designed to punish stacking tactics.. which is quite a lot of them tbh since that has been a common meta for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:People who struggle with Siren's Reef should honestly do more PvP and learn to control their space usage and dodges. It's not a hard fractal unless you're 1st time and no one bothers explaining the mechanics of the last fight.Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractalAnd SA isn't even that bad, you have to be reaaaaaaaally close for it to proc.You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat. @"Teratus.2859Teratus.2859" said:Instability isn't so effective if there is more build diversity in your group.This is the fractal in which that instability is precisely more effective. And build diversity has nothing to do with being pushed off the boat because of S.A.It's most punishing if your teams is largely made up of your typical melee players.You will be kicked from many T4 runs if you try to play a ranged class. And there are good reasons for it.Gets some ranged builds on your team and it won't be as much of a problem, nor will any mechanic in the game that's designed to punish stacking tactics.. which is quite a lot of them tbh since that has been a common meta for several years.You don't understand how the buff system works in gw2, and you have no idea how the boat fight is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 You should try Siren's T4 with SA. Try it once at least. You will see how oooooooooooften you will find yourself kicking other people off (and othe people kicking you off) the boat.The only fractal where someone's 'kicked me off' (and it happened only once) has been Uncategorized.Oh yes, the best suggestion ever. Go do PVP to learn how to deal with a fractalGood mechanical basis aids in every game mode. Shocker, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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