RALLY in pvp needs remove while down state with rezzing and finishing should stay

[CroTiger.7819]

There is alot of posts about rally and downstate already but i want to be specific about idea of just removing rally. Reason for this is very obvious and i don t understand how its still there.Mechanic itself is broken since you can revive and kill in same manner making teamfight feel like all or nothing when commiting while not commiting to cleave is hard since its such a strong mechanic.I wanna put practical teamfight situation we all had thousands of time. There is 4 vs 4 fight on mid 2 players are downed on both sides, you fail to cleave first for 1 inch of second and they all rally even getting fast invuln on rally and condi cleanse ... It means you lost 1 player other 1 is still downed and will dye in second while in same time u waste most of dmg on fail cleave and your condis on rallied target is even cleansed. Pls explain me how we can have normal and close teamfight with this mechanic. I know op classes in current meta are against this and i don t care about that because its obvious and fake reasoning which defends broken mechanics since it serves their broken builds on top of that. This mechanic kills diversity potential even more and make teamfight not fun even on winning side it feels lame and bad since you know you are carried just by commiting and completing the cleave first. On top of winning teamfight in case of meta builds crazy snowball starts to happen making your team wait for regroup in one of the better scenarios you loose only 100 pts just because you failed to cleave inch faster ... very balanced.Ignoring teamfights is only way to go vs some setups and thats fine but still rally is too punishing to make this game ever feel like balanced especially in terms of teamfight.Good job on 80% of patch but if rally stay in this game its still same politics serving the already broken classes and players which learned to use it 5 years ago leaving no space for other options which lacks cleave and mobility to be viable. Yes thief and revenants are problem in conquest since its all about mobility and cleave first in teamfight.

[SeikeNz.3526]

are you rallycist?

[CroTiger.7819]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:are you rallycist?

Good one but no im Reaallyistic.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@CroTiger.7819 said:remove rally

Interesting concept, but keep in mind some builds cannot cleave effectively and some builds may not be suited for reviving without downing themselves. Rally mechanic allows both of those to be played without their effectiveness being cut significantly in a team fight.

The rally mechanic isn't keeping your normal and close teamfight scenario from happening, It's just making the chance you'll be spared a defeat more volatile. People with glass builds putting themselves in cleave distance is probably more to blame for that, and close teamfights can be due to the rally mechanic just as much as they are circumvented by it.

@CroTiger.7819 said:This mechanic kills diversity potential even more and make teamfight not fun even on winning side it feels lame and bad since you know you are carried just by commiting and completing the cleave first.

It does the opposite. Being rallied by/rallying people as a daredevil running uppercut on someone who just went down that opposing team is leaving because they think cleaving opponent is more important feels amazing, for example..

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

It sounds good on paper.

Guarantee you it would remove the quintessential momentum shift that is needed in matches to turn things around with wise play.

I really do not believe that removing rally would pan out so well.

[Koen.1327]

great mechanicslugfests are more of a thing in lower ranks, but nevertheless full team rallies swaying fights all or nothing is annoyingwvw has 1 rally per death implemented

[Sigmoid.7082]

Just need a change from one-many to one-one.

[CroTiger.7819]

You guys don t understand that not everyone is playing thief and revenant and having revenant ability to rezz with cleave is even making it more op in terms of conquest. Builds with condi pressure would still won t be better vs revenant cleave especially not healthy condi builds which focus on building condis instead 1 click tones of them so cleave doesn t bring anything to them. Momentum on other side will still be there since you have mobility and thats fair but being able to further incease momentum with rally is unbalanced and not healthy. Why should even rev be able to rezz with cleave when its not their role same for control/condi builds which role should be to inteurpt rezz or finishing attempts in that situation while for rev is still usefull to cleave and get target down to start with. Rev will still be used for momentum even without rally but it will not have tools for everything which in this case is rally allowing rev to even rezz 2 players with its superb mobility combined with great cleave. Support should fit rezzer role, classes like rev and pistolwhip thief, necro ele etc...will be able to cleave while some have strong skills for safe stomp like engi,ele ... Pls don t try to convince me that revenant needs to be able to rezz with rally on top of everything he have... Cleaving or finishing one target and loosing one because you didn t rezz your teamate druing you cleaved enemie should be 1-1 lost on both sides not 1-0 because its just making some classes have everything which is not healthy and don t try to blind me with fake examples.

[shadowpass.4236]

If you go down in a fight, you shouldn't be able to instantly get back up because an enemy died.

That concept in general just makes no sense. You lost, you shouldn't be able to keep fighting immediately because your teammates killed something.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Just need a change from one-many to one-one.

This, one to one.

[shadowpass.4236]

Even one for one makes 2v2 situations unwinnable sometimes if your teammate rotates in, goes down instantly, and rallies the person you downed so now you're in a 2v1 with low cooldowns.

That's why a lot of people dislike it when people +1 them in outnumbered situations. It actually makes the fight harder in some cases, especially if we're spending cooldowns to try and peel for them cause they can barely survive 1 person, much less multiple. And, if I'm kiting 2 enemies for a while and they can't kill me, my teammate is 100% more likely to be focused as soon as he joins the fight.

[CroTiger.7819]

One rally for 1 dead is good for wvw since its massive fight but in pvp it should be removed complitly thats another attempt to keep this mobility/cleave classes on godmode where they even can rezz with their damage thats not good direction for anything even though i like concept of faster classes for +1 this mechanic just push that too far with their utility which is good even without that while other options will struggle against being usefull at all since i don t see diversity you are talking about. Rally deffinitly make strong mechanics even stronger who doesn t see that is either revenant or thief or reaper lol but im fine with reaper even though its geting some thief shadowsteps utility xD

[MyPuppy.8970]

But that would wipe out an entire role in conquest...

[CroTiger.7819]

It won t wipe up entire mode i don t understand why its still in game since its one of bigest reason why teamfights feel lame and why some classes have too much of everything and some can t even get close to it. It won t kill snowball potential rev and thief have and some classes would be now better suited for cleave and some for rezz but you won t have both in one which is current state. Rally is best friend of those mobile classes and mobility is already strong on its own plan even without it, this will just put things in line a bit more with every other class.

[MyPuppy.8970]

@CroTiger.7819 said:It won t wipe up entire mode i don t understand why its still in game since its one of bigest reason why teamfights feel lame and why some classes have too much of everything and some can t even get close to it. It won t kill snowball potential rev and thief have and some classes would be now better suited for cleave and some for rezz but you won t have both in one which is current state. Rally is best friend of those mobile classes and mobility is already strong on its own plan even without it, this will just put things in line a bit more with every other class.

I was talking about role, not mode. Rallybot to be specific.

[Avatar.3568]

I think rallying is one of those things that makes the fights more intense and interesting, even if player stand up, they are mostly easy to kill again

[Cyric.7813]

delete rezz, leave stomp and rally

[PLS.4095]

The system is ok, just hard nerf the damage of downed skill.

[Avatar.3568]

@PLS.4095 said:The system is ok, just hard nerf the damage of downed skill.

What dmg?

[PLS.4095]

@Avatar.3568 said:

@PLS.4095 said:The system is ok, just hard nerf the damage of downed skill.

What dmg?

The spam 1 and other skill like the skill 3 mesmer / necro etc....Ruin 1V2, they do so much damage.

[Avatar.3568]

Then cleave faster

[CroTiger.7819]

@Avatar.3568 said:I think rallying is one of those things that makes the fights more intense and interesting, even if player stand up, they are mostly easy to kill again

Its not rally that makes good tension in teamfight. Downstate makes tension in fight rally just makes it unbalanced and tension that rally brings is good only for powercreep meta and their abusers i guess pretty much everyone here saying rally should stay is part of that abuse lame system story. Tell me is it fun to play rally wars as condi i know weaver comes to mind but its unbalanced and is part of other story. This topic even include power vs condi and rally definitly go in hand with power which is 90% of meta. Yes weaver and mesmer are geting nerfs and they playstyle is not fun to play against but its not reason to remove condis instead it is reason that those builds need nerfs and they got it. In same time thief and revenant didn t get mobility nerfs and wasn t nerfed even close as those only 2 viable condi classes so all i can see is bunch of abusers defended by broken mechanic even further. You may be good but you are still carried by mechanics like rally and mobility which is number 1 tool in only competitive mode called conquest. Yes and at the end ranger swoop double recharge now and warior mobility stays same at same time so even if you wanna play ranger roamer war which is side noder will be faster than you after you sacrifice only 1 pet to take bird just for mobility (gazzele mobility stays same with additional daze on hit also don t see much of logic there)... It is just start and good setup for future balance updates i know but if just rally stays in game it will disable meta shift since most mobile classes are still most mobile and rally is still there to push it even more making conquest unplayable in high level pvp for 90% of new builds. Only thing i agree with you is that down state skills should get some look after delete of rally mechanics.

[kratan.4619]

@shadowpass.4236 said:If you go down in a fight, you shouldn't be able to instantly get back up because an enemy died.

That concept in general just makes no sense. You lost, you shouldn't be able to keep fighting immediately because your teammates killed something.

But, you haven't lost if you are only downed. Sorry if you can't finish the kill. And, even if they get rallied, their health is so low it does not take much to get them down again.

[CroTiger.7819]

@Cyric.7813 said:delete rezz, leave stomp and rally

You are clearly a troll but its funny since rally makes more sense than revive and mat shows it. Thats reason to nerf rally and not the opposite because its clear once again that mobility with great cleave potential is best choice for conquest and it both fits thief and revenant having both. Thief have smoke utility to push projectile hate even further and keep godmode running away from any scenario even from range dmg which was always one of their counters so they could stay in balance. Shortbow on thief works as condi and power have epic utility while ranger shortbow is not even viable to full condi variant...and yes now they have unblockable interupt on it aswell since it wasn t good already. Unblockable interupt should be on ranger shortbow since it was their original role and in gw2 weapon is unusable for 97% of time since you build condis slow but its actually balanced. I can t understand why thief shortbow which is already good got buff and ranger shortbow stays the same while thief gets mechanic ranger always needed to be viable condi class INTERUPT on low cd but thats just another topic. Thanks arenanet because this long wait for ranger interupt condi playstyle got given to best proffesion in game since start and for keeping ranger shortbow covered in dust from start with big potential to turn around class and make first condi class which wouldn t be toxic design.

[Crab Fear.1624]

All speed res traits need to go, or they can replace all the 300 second cooldown traits with speed stomps for balance