PvP post-patch

[Dreams.3128]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:because rangers, for whatever reason, has random condis on axeAxe MH should be a condi weapon lol.

It's something we dealt with for awhile, but it is certainly not fun or makes much sense as to why they are passively generating a condi that basically only needs one stack to stop any form of meaningful healing.Poison is okay but why do rangers have easy access to chill?

Honestly it is a hybrid. It used to be pure condi, but for some reason they added might to it and now it's this weird weapon that chucks random spikes of damage along with condis. The poison would be alright on the weapon itself, but having I passively generate on a trait sits with me wrong. Not even condi thief or necro has that sort of passive application.

And yes, having the random chill makes no sense either.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Not alone. To me it feels overall slower and more boring than it did before. There's some changes that feel good, some that feel unnecessary, and a whole lot that feels slept on which to me only makes it different from any other balance patch in the sense of the scope and that's it.

I respect the commitment to get the updates out more frequently though.

@avey.4201 said:They say it was to remove power creep, but it only rewards bad players/rally bots, and balance is the worst I've seen.

@otto.5684 said:And with the least diversity as far as I can remember.

Also agree with those words. Power creep is still there, and the lack of build diversity is a very clear symptom of it.

Shifting the power curve down overall by just lowering a bunch of coefficients and increasing CD's doesn't really change the function of said skills which is usually what sets skills above the power curve. It can even create all new outliers if the power curve shifts down and certain skills/traits don't follow. Core necro before the hotfix was a great example.

[hotte in space.2158]

lol 5v5 season hasnt even started and people already complaining that its the worst ever =)
Like a bunch of little children who just would be satisfied if their class/build carried them up to the top.I had some pretty good matches in ATs and still theres another patch on 17th march.In 2v2 theres of course not so much diversity as certain classes are predestinated for this mode, but 5v5 seems to work really well.Theres still a lot of balancing to be done, but already now, PvP is much better than before.Since Cal Cohen joined, dev-team is on its way and doing a good job !

[monotony.4931]

@hotte in space.2158 said:[...] but 5v5 seems to work really well. [...]

This very much.

Even a random player like myself can get away with fun but not meta builds. This hasn't happened in such a long time. It's a true bliss.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:because rangers, for whatever reason, has random condis on axeAxe MH should be a condi weapon lol.

It's something we dealt with for awhile, but it is certainly not fun or makes much sense as to why they are passively generating a condi that basically only needs one stack to stop any form of meaningful healing.Poison is okay but why do rangers have easy access to chill?

Honestly it is a hybrid. It used to be pure condi, but for some reason they added might to it and now it's this weird weapon that chucks random spikes of damage along with condis. The poison would be alright on the weapon itself, but having I passively generate on a trait sits with me wrong. Not even condi thief or necro has that sort of passive application.

And yes, having the random chill makes no sense either.

have you ever touched an axe? they're cold.

[Avatar.3568]

5vs5 is in a super bad state, even if you are the mechanical way better team you need soooo long to kill "to show" that you are better.I run zerker Amulett and even if I get a stun lock I will survive most of the time, the game isn't punishing, it's super forgiveable and when everybody comes with bunker shit it's even more annoying.

And in the end, every legend team on eu isn't playing at anymore because it's way to boring.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:[...] but 5v5 seems to work really well. [...]

This very much.

Even a random player like myself can get away with fun but not meta builds. This hasn't happened in such a long time. It's a true bliss.

Sort of a contradictionary statement. This isn't how PvP in any game should be, really.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Avatar.3568" said:5vs5 is in a super bad state, even if you are the mechanical way better team you need soooo long to kill "to show" that you are better.I run zerker Amulett and even if I get a stun lock I will survive most of the time, the game isn't punishing, it's super forgiveable and when everybody comes with bunker kitten it's even more annoying.

And in the end, every legend team on eu isn't playing at anymore because it's way to boring.

This. People shouldn't have complained as much as they did pre-patch. There were a select few problem builds, that could've been fixed with minor adjustments. Otherwise, the balance was pretty great.

What we have now is a condition meta where the sole two classes who still contain some amount of power damage, namely ranger and engineer, are getting complained about because apparently people don't want to see any power builds.

It's not an issue with the game balance at this stage. It's an issue with your in-game reflexes, ability to cope, and skill to adapt. Players should get properly PUNISHED for making MISTAKES. Before, every window was an opportunity to tilt the fight in your favour. Now, who cares. It's all about the build you're playing (condi), and none mechanical ability.

Good one, folks. Keep the flag high.

[monotony.4931]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:[...] but 5v5 seems to work really well. [...]

This very much.

Even a random player like myself can get away with fun but not meta builds. This hasn't happened in such a long time. It's a true bliss.

Sort of a contradictionary statement. This isn't how PvP in any game should be, really.

And what's the way to play? Let's all bandwagon to the latest elite specialisation because everything else is unviable? That worked super well. So well in fact PvP has been in decline since the very first expansion. Not even the entirely unjustified praise for the PoF damage spam specialisations is going to change that.

This patch is a little over 2 weeks old. You can't reasonably compare it to the meta that was before and that was years in the making. During those 2 weeks we already had 1 other PvP patch. That's pretty much unprecedented. While I'm not sold yet I'm entirely willing to see where Arena Net is going next. I like what they do right now.

[Xca.9721]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:[...] but 5v5 seems to work really well. [...]

This very much.

Even a random player like myself can get away with fun but not meta builds. This hasn't happened in such a long time. It's a true bliss.

Sort of a contradictionary statement. This isn't how PvP in any game should be, really.

I mean we only have 5v5 Unranked right now which has no Matchmaking. I play power rev atm and it works really good vs bots, but it might be completely different in Ranked

[bravan.3876]

Only low reaction/ low skill ppl getting overcarried by facetank meta can enjoy current state. Facetank sustain is still way too high (Necro, Ele to only name two).This is the most noobfriendly facetank meta since HoT release with Bunkerchronos. Hard cc spam (Aurashare Ele, FB, fear Necro) too rewarding. Resses too strong in general with on top of that too rewarding revive mechanics (Necro, Ele, FB but also pet rezz). There is another hotfix needed will reduce even more facetank sustain, boon spam and hard cc spam rewarding without even interrupting anything remarkable all over the place. And that is needed for 2v2 AND 5v5. The amount of time-out wins in conquest is way too high.

[hotte in space.2158]

@bravan.3876 said:Only low reaction/ low skill ppl getting overcarried by facetank meta can enjoy current state.You cant know that ! This is argumentation on lowest possible level.This is the most noobfriendly facetank meta since HoT releaseThere isnt even a meta yet, season hasnt even started and next balance-patch coming soonDidnt powercreep make players being carried by their class/build ? Can killing just by pushing 3 or 4 buttons be called skillful ?The amount of time-out wins in conquest is way too highWho cares for unranked =) btw I didnt have even one time-out and I play a lot.

The current state is part of a development and I enjoy it^^

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:[...] but 5v5 seems to work really well. [...]

This very much.

Even a random player like myself can get away with fun but not meta builds. This hasn't happened in such a long time. It's a true bliss.

Sort of a contradictionary statement. This isn't how PvP in any game should be, really.

And what's the way to play? Let's all bandwagon to the latest elite specialisation because everything else is unviable? That worked super well. So well in fact PvP has been in decline since the very first expansion. Not even the entirely unjustified praise for the PoF damage spam specialisations is going to change that.

This patch is a little over 2 weeks old. You can't reasonably compare it to the meta that was before and that was years in the making. During those 2 weeks we already had 1 other PvP patch. That's pretty much unprecedented. While I'm not sold yet I'm entirely willing to see where Arena Net is going next. I like what they do right now.

You completely missed my point.

Random player, throwing in with anyone, with a random , "fun-packaged" -build. You know what's not fun? it taking a ton of time for a player who's better than them, to kill them.

Even worse, scenarios where you would've won a 1v2 before, due to massive skill difference, are now automatically tilted in the duo's favour.

It's not balance that's rejuvenating PvP right now. It's new ways to play aka game modes. If the next expansions brings out a new game mode or more ways to play, on top of a specialization, then that will also help re-populate PvP.

This isn't some magic hat trick.

[bravan.3876]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Only low reaction/ low skill ppl getting overcarried by facetank meta can enjoy current state.You cant know that ! This is argumentation on lowest possible level.This is the most noobfriendly facetank meta since HoT releaseThere isnt even a meta yet, season hasnt even started and next balance-patch coming soonDidnt powercreep make players being carried by their class/build ? Can killing just by pushing 3 or 4 buttons be called skillful ?The amount of time-out wins in conquest is way too highWho cares for unranked =) btw I didnt have even one time-out and I play a lot.

The current state is part of a development and I enjoy it^^

When slow and bad players die fast is sure more skilled than ppl can facetank for ages doing 1000 mistakes before finally dying. The best state ofc is something in the middle, means where good players (GOOD! players) do not die in 1 second by a no or too low counterplay easy to hit oneshot undermining playerskill of the target or by braindead spammable high dmg (like quickness autoattack spam and spam of other low cd high impact skills with barely any punishment for cd wastes). The patch should aim for that middle state. That we have a too facetanky, too forgiving state atm on a lot of classes is so obvious i don't know what else to say or how to prove that. I know when i am carried by build. You either can enjoy that or not, that is ofc just a matter of player type.

[hotte in space.2158]

@bravan.3876 said:When slow and bad players die fast is sure more skilled than ppl can facetank for ages doing 1000 mistakes before finally dying. The best state ofc is something in the middle, means where good players (GOOD! players) do not die in 1 second by a no or too low counterplay easy to hit oneshot undermining playerskill of the target or by braindead spammable high dmg (like quickness autoattack spam and spam of other low cd high impact skills with barely any punishment for cd wastes). The patch should aim for that middle state. That we have a too facetanky, too forgiving state atm on a lot of classes is so obvious i don't know what else to say or how to prove that. I know when i am carried by build. You either can enjoy that or not, that is ofc just a matter of player type.

Why so negative? Just necro and FB overperform in terms of sustain, and these classes will be the next ones to be nerfed. Also rezzing will be touched soon I presume.Warriors, engis, eles and mesmers seem to be pretty much in line (more or less) and when I fight players who make 2 or 3 mistakes, I kill them if they dont escape.Its not the current state of PvP that is forgiving, Its harmless players =)Ok there is tanky stuff like weaver or scrapper, but they dont overperform in my opinion and if you cant kill them just go for something else. PvP gets more tactical again.But I accept other people having different opinions, without accusing them to just be low reaction/low skill players.

[bravan.3876]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@bravan.3876 said:When slow and bad players die fast is sure more skilled than ppl can facetank for ages doing 1000 mistakes before finally dying. The best state ofc is something in the middle, means where good players (GOOD! players) do not die in 1 second by a no or too low counterplay easy to hit oneshot undermining playerskill of the target or by braindead spammable high dmg (like quickness autoattack spam and spam of other low cd high impact skills with barely any punishment for cd wastes). The patch should aim for that middle state. That we have a too facetanky, too forgiving state atm on a lot of classes is so obvious i don't know what else to say or how to prove that. I know when i am carried by build. You either can enjoy that or not, that is ofc just a matter of player type.

Why so negative? Just necro and FB overperform in terms of sustain, and these classes will be the next ones to be nerfed. Also rezzing will be touched soon I presume.Warriors, engis, eles and mesmers seem to be pretty much in line (more or less) and when I fight players who make 2 or 3 mistakes, I kill them if they dont escape.Its not the current state of PvP that is forgiving, Its harmless players =)Ok there is tanky stuff like weaver or scrapper, but they dont overperform in my opinion and if you cant kill them just go for something else. PvP gets more tactical again.But I accept other people having different opinions, without accusing them to just be low reaction/low skill players.

Ele is not in line at all

[Alin.2468]

PvP is the same thing as it was after HoT release. It's all back to condi-creep now.

[Oslaf Beinir.5842]

It is not entirely a turn off yet but lost alot of fun and would rather do something else for a while.The game no longer feels fluid and no longer feels as good to play anymore. their patch feels....incomplete .and im not a fan of excessive cc , burn everywhere, lighting rodes, thieves and...bambi.some dmg nerfs were warranted but much more were overdonesustain on a few things were rightly nerfed but more were also overdoneyeah not fun and would rather we do not see new elite specs anymore if we go through the same bs again

[Dreams.3128]

I want more boon strip.This is stupid that there are literal slap fights taking place and we can't even SKILLFULLY PUNISH players for deciding to load up on boons.

Someone remind me again why they needed boon strip?????

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@bravan.3876 said:Only low reaction/ low skill ppl getting overcarried by facetank meta can enjoy current state. Facetank sustain is still way too high (Necro, Ele to only name two).This is the most noobfriendly facetank meta since HoT release with Bunkerchronos. Hard cc spam (Aurashare Ele, FB, fear Necro) too rewarding. Resses too strong in general with on top of that too rewarding revive mechanics (Necro, Ele, FB but also pet rezz). There is another hotfix needed will reduce even more facetank sustain, boon spam and hard cc spam rewarding without even interrupting anything remarkable all over the place. And that is needed for 2v2 AND 5v5. The amount of time-out wins in conquest is way too high.

I also think FB, Necro, and Ele (still) need attention. Compared to the rest of the roster, they're just way too safe to play while doing decent damage. It's like low-effort mode. No offense to mains of those classes.

[monotony.4931]

I honestly don't see any condition dominance in 5v5 unranked in EU. I play every day now (the game is fun again!) and since the last patch power damage has become dominant. Even Necromancers (Repaers) are going for power amulets. A lot of people seem to be going full ham too. Like me most seem to go with Berserker amulets. Getting hit hurts but we are luckily far from the oppressive damage output we had before the 25th. In short: it feels good.

[Tharan.9085]

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:Even Necromancers (Repaers) are going for power amulets.Wait, when was the last time reaper went condi?

[Vancho.8750]

This condi cc bunker meta feels like a slog. For the longest time i havent felt this game that much of a slog getting ping ponged around with 6 conditions forced to take all the possible stun breaks and condi clears and in the end just die again to cc and condi burst. They over did it with the power nerfs. Hope they fix it fast and not make it a slog for the next few seasons.I enjoy the 2v2 but it kind of ended in the who can cheese the most game. Most of the condi applications are still bullshit there is no weight to most condi attacks so you got scraped by edge of the circle have 3 condies, get stunned use stun break, get stunned again ,stun break again, ping pong around, somehow survive, 6 condies on you and you are crippled burning and get downed anyway.Not being able to play your character is not fun.

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:Even Necromancers (Repaers) are going for power amulets.Wait, when was the last time reaper went condi?

At the end of HOT before the nerfs for POF.

[Serenity.6304]

@Xca.9721 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@"hotte in space.2158" said:[...] but 5v5 seems to work really well. [...]

This very much.

Even a random player like myself can get away with fun but not meta builds. This hasn't happened in such a long time. It's a true bliss.

Sort of a contradictionary statement. This isn't how PvP in any game should be, really.

I mean we only have 5v5 Unranked right now which has no Matchmaking. I play power rev atm and it works really good vs bots, but it might be completely different in Ranked

I just wanted to point out that unranked definitely has matchmaking, based on Glicko, similar to ranked. It includes rating, rank, party size, profession, ladder position, and dishonor. It is true, when a new account is created, you will get matched up against completely different, new players. You can try it out yourself. More to read on here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP#Unranked_and_Ranked_Arena