Reaper. Where have you gone?

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Anyone else see the thematic identity of our Reapers get shredded in these last few nerfs. Give us shroud flashers that ability again. It wouldn't break the game and now that our signet options also been elbowed I dont think it a huge ask. I haven't felt this meh in years. Ps just my opinion here.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

You speak the truth.Unfortunately I think the era of flashing will never return.They’ve nerfed many ‘zero’ tells instant traits tied to shroud flashing.I fear we are going to be stuck in this passive and degenerate shroud camping style for a long while.

[whateverthisnamecanbe.3615]

yes unfortunately especially reaper shroud skill 4 is so slow in spin and those "Auras" are unexplained either in patch notes or in skills or traits.

[Angelissa.8409]

Back to GW after so many years, so I made a necro and I'm really liking Reaper.How was it different back then?

[dceptaconroy.7928]

We had options with condi reaper, shroud flashing (cd was lesser obviously - fun stuff) + slower shroud degen etc. Honestly mate theres been so many ups n downs its bonkers. We've been man handled into a below par/slowed down power spec.

[Jobber.6348]

Reaper has been forced slowly to Shroud camp ever since they gave alot of benefits to be in shroud.

Also, they kept buffing Reaper's Shroud skills and left all the other weapon skills mostly untouched.

Right now all I do is use weapon skills to refill my Lifeforce and just hop back into Shroud.

No real reason to rotate weapon sets when yur Shroud autos did the damage of Axe 2 consistently, while buffed by Shroud mechanic buffs like Death Perception and Reaper's Onslaught.

[Strider.7849]

I miss the old plague elite skill. It was useful for stomping in outnumbered situations and reducing incoming damage. I too, also miss condi reaper, the cooldown reductions on spectral walk/armor, and not self inflicting yourself with damaging/debilitating conditions. After they removed condi reaper I pretty much deleted my necro and never went back. Been curious about trying it out again, think condi reaper can work in WvW again for roaming?

[Opal.9324]

I also miss shroud flashing. Reaper was my main for a long time after HOT, and flashing was one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much. Over time it just got more and more nerfed and now I rarely ever play it. Reaper just doesn't feel the same anymore.

[MorgothLich.1253]

If to that you add the fact that greatsword is in an awfull state, you can complete the picture of how reaper got into the situation of shroud camping.The only incentive to stay out of shroud would be to use the weapon spec but we've a gravedigger that is slow af and does ridicolous dmg unless you go full berserker, a pull that can be dodged even by a blind person and auto attack chain so slow that it's almost unsable vs any high mobile class.Let's mention the shouts too, that are now borderline ridicolous because almost all of them are useless except chilled to the bone and yaaw!Reaper lost its identity in my opinion

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Yeah man those GS aa's are a joke. Everything's slowed and dumbed down. I dont remember Jason taking that slow an animated stab.

[mindcircus.1506]

really? I mean in what format?Open World, story, t1-2 fractals, dungeons my reaper is the toon most in need of a serious nerfing.

[KrHome.1920]

@mindcircus.1506 said:really? I mean in what format?Open World, story, t1-2 fractals, dungeons my reaper is the toon most in need of a serious nerfing.You should try dragonhunter. As much aoe and survivability while being much higher in the dps chart on top.

The only two specs that have noticably less survivability in their dps builds than reaper are thief and elementalist. And these two classes are top dps with 20% more dps than reaper.

Fun fact: with all of these 3 classes you can run the quite forgiving marauder gear and still out-dps a berserker reaper.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

shroud flashing is dumb and reaper isn't built for that anyways. besides how is ~10 sec considered camping? idk I think its fine atm.

[Josiah.2967]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:really? I mean in what format?Open World, story, t1-2 fractals, dungeons my reaper is the toon most in need of a serious nerfing.

I hate to be that guy; however, if that's the case you might be terrible at the other classes. We have two classes doing 9k more damage then the Reaper is capable of doing in fractals/raids after the last "balance patch". I (a necro loyalist) was finally forced to switch classes for raiding. The difference is just to big at the moment, this difference was enough for me to change. The said thing is when I switched, I realized both of these classes have better survive-ability in raids to.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

We're mainly talking pvp here. Shroud flashing for procs and the fun it brought was a great time. Mind you alot of us have been here longer and more invested into reaper than others. So dumb for you not for alot of others.

[Nimon.7840]

@Josiah.2967 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:really? I mean in what format?Open World, story, t1-2 fractals, dungeons my reaper is the toon most in need of a serious nerfing.

I hate to be that guy; however, if that's the case you might be terrible at the other classes. We have two classes doing 9k more damage then the Reaper is capable of doing in fractals/raids after the last "balance patch". I (a necro loyalist) was finally forced to switch classes for raiding. The difference is just to big at the moment, this difference was enough for me to change. The said thing is when I switched, I realized both of these classes have better survive-ability in raids to.

Well in theory necro (reaper) is able to reach higher number due to the dread trait.However, in practice it's nowhere near possible to have perma fear on a boss even if you drop soulbarbs for fear of death which makes you drop a 10% modifier, to get better access to a 33% modifier.It's comparable to the danger time trait of chronos. With the difference, that Chrono actually has a way to get good slow uptime.

Reaper doesnt have a lot of fear uptime.We have:Reaper shroud 3: maximum of 2 seconds of fear and with alacrity 19 seconds cooldown (I know it gets reduced by autoattacking in shroud)Staff 5: maximum of 2 seconds of fear, with alacrity 24 seconds cooldownSpectral ring: maximum of 2 seconds of fear, with alac it's 30 seconds cooldown. But also has a downside. The enemy/boss needs to walk through it to trigger the fear.

So basically it's just reaper shroud 3 and staff 5.In order to have a near permanent uptime:

To make this easier I'll not use actual numbers but make both 20 seconds cd.So:In one minute, you are able to use both of them ~3 times. That's 3times x 2 skills x 2seconds fear = 12 seconds of fear. So you'd have to use 5 reapers to reach an almost permanent uptime of fear. But that's calculated too favourable.

So theoretically it is possible. Now find a rotation that lets you use both skills on cooldown. Which might be possible. But you loose another dmg source in form of axe 2.

So in order to make this work, we'd loose:

• 10% dmg from soulbarbs
• axe 2 as damage source
• power from might (awaken the pain)

So overall this won't be a 33% dmg buff, just a 10-15% if you keep in mind what we're loosing, which would make reaper a 35k dps spec, max.

Which sounds fine first, but if you look at the condition to reach that number (no pun intended) that's not really worth it and way too low compared to other classes with similar conditions.

[KrHome.1920]

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:We're mainly talking pvp here. Shroud flashing for procs and the fun it brought was a great time. Mind you alot of us have been here longer and more invested into reaper than others. So dumb for you not for alot of others.I played flashing builds for years but everybody knows that it was a 7 second cooldown cheese without counterplay because it was instant. This doesn't mean it was overpowered, it was just onedimensional. Your target could either ignore it (revenant, warrior, guardian) or die to it (every other class).

I don't get why anyone favored that playstyle. It has nothing to do with skill. Just stick to your target and spam F1 on cooldown.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:We're mainly talking pvp here. Shroud flashing for procs and the fun it brought was a great time. Mind you alot of us have been here longer and more invested into reaper than others. So dumb for you not for alot of others.

I have plenty of time on necro. how about stop being so passive aggressive and actually quote me if you're talking about me in all but name?shroud flashing was a dumb play style cuz instant procs have no counter play. crying about it now is pointless.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Ok I'm talking about you just guess I thought it was obvious, and cool I'll stop being passive aggressive coz you know in these dire times we've got to stick together, I just couldnt get around to typing Stand the wall dude or even pop the quote, yeah that was bad. And you know you're pretty right on it being pointless to cry about, I've just seen enough changes and got nostalgic. To each their own lads, guess I just like darting around a little more. Peace!

[Josiah.2967]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:really? I mean in what format?Open World, story, t1-2 fractals, dungeons my reaper is the toon most in need of a serious nerfing.

I hate to be that guy; however, if that's the case you might be terrible at the other classes. We have two classes doing 9k more damage then the Reaper is capable of doing in fractals/raids after the last "balance patch". I (a necro loyalist) was finally forced to switch classes for raiding. The difference is just to big at the moment, this difference was enough for me to change. The said thing is when I switched, I realized both of these classes have better survive-ability in raids to.

Well in theory necro (reaper) is able to reach higher number due to the dread trait.However, in practice it's nowhere near possible to have perma fear on a boss even if you drop soulbarbs for fear of death which makes you drop a 10% modifier, to get better access to a 33% modifier.It's comparable to the danger time trait of chronos. With the difference, that Chrono actually has a way to get good slow uptime.

Reaper doesnt have a lot of fear uptime.We have:Reaper shroud 3: maximum of 2 seconds of fear and with alacrity 19 seconds cooldown (I know it gets reduced by autoattacking in shroud)Staff 5: maximum of 2 seconds of fear, with alacrity 24 seconds cooldownSpectral ring: maximum of 2 seconds of fear, with alac it's 30 seconds cooldown. But also has a downside. The enemy/boss needs to walk through it to trigger the fear.

So basically it's just reaper shroud 3 and staff 5.In order to have a near permanent uptime:

To make this easier I'll not use actual numbers but make both 20 seconds cd.So:In one minute, you are able to use both of them ~3 times. That's 3times x 2 skills x 2seconds fear = 12 seconds of fear. So you'd have to use 5 reapers to reach an almost permanent uptime of fear. But that's calculated too favourable.

So theoretically it is possible. Now find a rotation that lets you use both skills on cooldown. Which might be possible. But you loose another dmg source in form of axe 2.

So in order to make this work, we'd loose:

• 10% dmg from soulbarbs
• axe 2 as damage source
• power from might (awaken the pain)

So overall this won't be a 33% dmg buff, just a 10-15% if you keep in mind what we're loosing, which would make reaper a 35k dps spec, max.

Which sounds fine first, but if you look at the condition to reach that number (no pun intended) that's not really worth it and way too low compared to other classes with similar conditions.

My problem is currently I reach 31k some fights in raids. On mesmer I almost reach 40k while beneffiting the group more and surprisingly having better survivability in raids.

I think anything withing a 3.5k difference is acceptable. Sigh...

I appreciate the theory crafting. I believe we need a greatsword out of shroud damage buff.

[Leonidrex.5649]

See the lonesome rider carry onHis pain so blue, haven't you heard?

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Volbeat! You got it! 10 points man you win.> @Leonidrex.5649 said:

See the lonesome rider carry onHis pain so blue, haven't you heard?

[Anchoku.8142]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:really? I mean in what format?Open World, story, t1-2 fractals, dungeons my reaper is the toon most in need of a serious nerfing.

I hate to be that guy; however, if that's the case you might be terrible at the other classes. We have two classes doing 9k more damage then the Reaper is capable of doing in fractals/raids after the last "balance patch". I (a necro loyalist) was finally forced to switch classes for raiding. The difference is just to big at the moment, this difference was enough for me to change. The said thing is when I switched, I realized both of these classes have better survive-ability in raids to.

Well in theory necro (reaper) is able to reach higher number due to the dread trait.However, in practice it's nowhere near possible to have perma fear on a boss even if you drop soulbarbs for fear of death which makes you drop a 10% modifier, to get better access to a 33% modifier.It's comparable to the danger time trait of chronos. With the difference, that Chrono actually has a way to get good slow uptime.

Reaper doesnt have a lot of fear uptime.We have:Reaper shroud 3: maximum of 2 seconds of fear and with alacrity 19 seconds cooldown (I know it gets reduced by autoattacking in shroud)Staff 5: maximum of 2 seconds of fear, with alacrity 24 seconds cooldownSpectral ring: maximum of 2 seconds of fear, with alac it's 30 seconds cooldown. But also has a downside. The enemy/boss needs to walk through it to trigger the fear.

So basically it's just reaper shroud 3 and staff 5.In order to have a near permanent uptime:

To make this easier I'll not use actual numbers but make both 20 seconds cd.So:In one minute, you are able to use both of them ~3 times. That's 3times x 2 skills x 2seconds fear = 12 seconds of fear. So you'd have to use 5 reapers to reach an almost permanent uptime of fear. But that's calculated too favourable.

So theoretically it is possible. Now find a rotation that lets you use both skills on cooldown. Which might be possible. But you loose another dmg source in form of axe 2.

So in order to make this work, we'd loose:

• 10% dmg from soulbarbs
• axe 2 as damage source
• power from might (awaken the pain)

So overall this won't be a 33% dmg buff, just a 10-15% if you keep in mind what we're loosing, which would make reaper a 35k dps spec, max.

Which sounds fine first, but if you look at the condition to reach that number (no pun intended) that's not really worth it and way too low compared to other classes with similar conditions.

Yes, people who point at Dread's 33% modifier and think it's OP probably don't play with it much. Dread's real benefit is the 10 vulnerability for 5 sec and the fact the vuln can cover the fear.

I think because vulnerability in group PvE is usually capped, the extra damage modifier was added. However, fear up-time is very, very low. Fear sources are corrupted stab, a utility weapon (staff), a utility (Spectral Wall), locked behind 2 ICDs (shroud and the longer skill ICD), or on environmental (skill), stolen (skull), or other profession sources. Fear is nearly always used as a pseudo control effect and interrupt. Trying to squeak a third more damage out within a second is pretty hard to do.

Dread is not a serious dps source. It is more of a way to force a condi clear and stun break. It is a flat-out nerf from Unholy Fervor it replaced, which was a solid axe dps trait. For another comparison, Chill of Death was nerfed a lot to bring it down to Dread's level. Compare it to grandmaster traits Close to Death and Spiteful Spirit and you realize it is not worth the discussion.

To recap, Dread is there to protect a Fear's duration and punish opponents without enough condi mitigation. It's almost a noob-trap.

[DeceiverX.8361]

They couldn't leave shroud flickering with the insane damage buffs RShroud was given. The changes for the offensive bonuses were unwarranted and were PvE-targeted because its DPS wasn't high enough, but it's the truth of the matter and the class would be OP if these things returned without the losses to damage. Reaper is crazy strong right now relative to a lot of others because of these offensive buffs as well.

Outside of the busted condi build, shroud uptime builds have always been the best on reaper. There's a lot of aggressive pressure and utility and LF gain on GS that can be weaved between uses, but otherwise, most incentives to leave shroud were defense-oriented (where health is less important and LF is more valuable for offense than defense alone) or combo-based revolving around utility with abilities like CttB, DG, various projectile skills from offhand dagger/focus.

The former is probably why it feels bad to people, though. The DM build doesn't feel good to offensively-minded players, while RShroud itself doesn't feel good for defensively-minded players.

Spite/SR/R still feels alright. It's not peak reaper, but it's definitely on the better end of the classes right now as far as "feeling good to play" is concerned.

Like right now, reaper feels way better and more in-depth than thief with its huge baseline damage losses. Really says a lot when even the necro is less one-dimensional than thief.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

If you think Reapers have it rough, please join me in a moment of silence for pvp scourge.