Story-Strike Mission was a clever choice

[Astralporing.1957]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Im not advocating for hard content here, all im saying is that it feels good when the good guys group up to face a challenge thats bigger than the sum of its parts.It doesn't feel good when the end boss takes half an hour, because one person afk's, two quit midway, and three remaining (yes, somehow the public group numbered 6 players at this point, some players apparently left earlier) get overwhelmed due to all portals being up and all the area swarming with enemies (no, there were no challenge motes active, from what i saw. The instance just never scaled down back to three active people that were left).Personally, i'd rather have it as a solo mission at this point. It would have felt way, way better.

But of course if the idea was to make people dislike strike missions even more than they did already, then i'd say this instance did the job really well.

I dont see some failled attempts being that detrimental to the overall strike missions as well as this aproach to story content, esp when strike missions are more rewarding than ever now.

Failure deff didnt deter players (or well, most players) back in gw1 nor in mmos like ff14 or wow.It's not about failure - from what i've seen, i'm quite sure you can't really fail it (in fact, it looks like that even if you do absolutely nothing, the NPCs will kill the boss on their own eventually, it will just take hours). I'm also sure that experienced static groups will have no problem with it whatsoever. The mission is just very badly designed if the intention was to entice new players into strikes, because for

those

players all it would do is to persuade them that it would have been better if the mission was a solo one. And quite possibly that they don't want to have anything to do with strikes ever again.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

No, I don't think it was a clever choice. ANet certainly thinks that they're clever, and that they're going to dupe everyone that doesn't like raids into liking raids. They think that we don't even know what we like or dislike without being told. ANet thinks that everyone who doesn't raid just needs a shallower difficulty curve. And while this is certainly true for some percentage of players who don't raid, I believe that it won't make the amount of difference that ANet vainly wishes it will make.

Also, from what I have seen of raids and strikes, this content is not representative of either raids or strikes. The escort part is much like an open world event chain. And the end boss fight seems more like a fractal boss than a raid or strike boss. And while it's nice to have the option to do story in an instance, with only players of my choosing, I'd rather it be just that - an option.

In summary, I don't think that this tactic of "fooling" or "forcing" non-raiders into doing raids will have the results ANet so desperately wants. I have participated in raids and strikes, and I do not like the style of game play - I think it is very un-fun. Clever, clever ANet will not fool me into liking something I've already tried and formed an opinion on. And I think that I am not alone. And if ANet are so bell-hent on tricking people into doing strikes, then raids- their bait-content should be more representative of strikes and raids.

[Dante.1763]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Im not advocating for hard content here, all im saying is that it feels good when the good guys group up to face a challenge thats bigger than the sum of its parts.It doesn't feel good when the end boss takes half an hour, because one person afk's, two quit midway, and three remaining (yes, somehow the public group numbered 6 players at this point, some players apparently left earlier) get overwhelmed due to all portals being up and all the area swarming with enemies (no, there were no challenge motes active, from what i saw. The instance just never scaled down back to three active people that were left).Personally, i'd rather have it as a solo mission at this point. It would have felt way, way better.

But of course if the idea was to make people dislike strike missions even more than they did already, then i'd say this instance did the job really well.

I dont see some failled attempts being that detrimental to the overall strike missions as well as this aproach to story content, esp when strike missions are more rewarding than ever now.

Failure deff didnt deter players (or well, most players) back in gw1 nor in mmos like ff14 or wow.It's not about failure - from what i've seen, i'm quite sure you can't really fail it (in fact, it looks like that even if you do absolutely nothing, the NPCs will kill the boss on their own eventually, it will just take hours). I'm also sure that experienced static groups will have no problem with it whatsoever. The mission is just very badly designed if the intention was to entice new players into strikes, because for

those

players all it would do is to persuade them that it would have been better if the mission was a solo one. And quite possibly that they don't want to have anything to do with strikes ever again.

Thats all it did for me. Ive ran it three times. Two because the story didnt progress, and the third as a final attempt of progressing it. That entire instance could have and IMO should have been a solo story mission.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Reading these comments make me feel like this community considers itself extremely entitled. It's always either

• Not my type of content!
• Tricking us!
• Un-fun, because I'm expected to press more than one button!
• Something went wrong when I was playing, therefore the instance is bad!

Do you even realize how petty and ungrateful you sound like?

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

Do you even realize how arrogant and elitist that sounds? Don't wonder why ANet is so desperately trying to prop up raids.

[Dante.1763]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Reading these comments make me feel like this community considers itself extremely entitled. It's always either

• Not my type of content!
• Tricking us!
• Un-fun, because I'm expected to press more than one button!
• Something went wrong when I was playing, therefore the instance is bad!

Do you even realize how petty and ungrateful you sound like?

Welcome to the forums. almost every MMO forums are like this, World Of Tanks has an even worse one. The forums are here for people to express opinions, concepts etc. If players are enjoying the game they probably never come here unless they are like me, really into the game.

Which is also why i express my feelings on content i dont like, like this one. Anet doesnt have to listen, or care, neither do you, but thats what the forums are for.

FYI wanting solo content =/= wanting to only press 1 button. Theres a difference, throwing rhetoric into it will do nothing.

[Randulf.7614]

Played a second run through today. Still fun and more replayable than I thought. Want to see more co op side story stuff like this now. Perfect for throw together parties or a party of friends/guildies.

Really excellent addition to the game. Wouldn't be the same solo - glad they are encouraging more and multiplayer stuff in a game that was always well built for it

[Ithirahad.5132]

@"Nilkemia.8507" said:especially the final boss, though that might've been because of the CC phase which the group couldn't/wouldn't break.

If people pay attention to the "vents pressure" timer and get back to the tank, it's easy to break it and then the boss goes down quick. Otherwise the fight will be a drag.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re: Not my type of content! - Story should be for everyone. Those of us who like story resent it being locked behind content not intended for everyone.(Raids and strikes are, by definition, not for everyone.)

re: Tricking us! - If you can't recognize subterfuge by now, I don't think I can help you.

Un-fun, because I'm expected to press more than one button! - You assume that anyone and everyone who doesn't raid has no idea how to play or is completely incapable. Do keep wondering why non-raiders think that the raid community is un-welcoming and hostile.

Something went wrong when I was playing, therefore the instance is bad! - That is just baseless, like the other assumptions. But y'know - why reinvent the wheel instead of going with what already works? New stuff is more likely(than old methods) to be buggy.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

And thank you to the people who are kindly giving helpful hints for doing this content. It's very nice of you to take the time to help others.

[Hesione.9412]

I haven't started that story yet, so have read the comments here with interest. While using parties/squads (?) as an approach works well now, how about in 1-2 years time when there are fewer players doing the content?

How easily are people able to put together dungeon groups on days when it's not the daily for that dungeon, or for the harder paths.....

[Dante.1763]

@Hesione.9412 said:I haven't started that story yet, so have read the comments here with interest. While using parties/squads (?) as an approach works well now, how about in 1-2 years time when there are fewer players doing the content?

How easily are people able to put together dungeon groups on days when it's not the daily for that dungeon, or for the harder paths.....

You can sit in LFG for a few hours(or more) on days where the dungeon is not the daily, ive done it before.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re: Fortunately players don’t have to do this content. - It's story content, and story content should be for everyone. I wish they would add an optional challenge mote (or whatever they're called) to each and every story instance, so that people who want story mode to be "challenging" could get their adrenaline fix, or whatever it is that they're after. But once again, I think that should be an option - story should be for everyone.

re: If you don't like it, don't do it. - I see this a lot on the forums, and it's a shame. ANet should be making more content that appeals to more people, not dumping resources into making more restrictive content that will appeal to less of their player base. It's wasteful of company resources, much like the LS1 content that was only available for a short time and not re-playable after.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

more restrictive content that will appeal to less of their player base

Bold assumption. A small group here thinking they're the majority.

[Blude.6812]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Just like a new raid or a new fractal ppl need to get used to the encounter.Which is true if you enjoy that type of content. Forcing it on those who don't is, IMO, not a grand idea.

Fortunately players don’t have to do this content.LOL, thanks for the laugh.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re: Bold assumption. A small group here thinking they're the majority. - No, based on ANet's own admission that raids aren't attracting enough players, and are still a relatively small group. Which is the reason strikes were added. And why they're trying to find ways to coerce players into doing strikes, which should ensure that they're going to do (and love) raids, right?

The second sentence after the heading "Raids" may interest you.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray

Actually, I'll just put it here, and save you the trouble. Please do fact check me if you have any doubt.

They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.

Also:Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content.

And again, please do fact check if you have any doubt.

(edited- grammar, clarity, supporting info)

[Randulf.7614]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: Bold assumption. A small group here thinking they're the majority. - No, based on ANet's own admission that raids aren't attracting enough players, and are still a relatively small group. Which is the reason strikes were added. And why they're trying to find ways to coerce players into doing strikes, which should ensure that they're going to do (and love) raids, right?

The second sentence after the heading "Raids" may interest you.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray

Actually, I'll just put it here, and save you the trouble. Please do fact check me if you have any doubt.

They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.

Also:Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content.

And again, please do fact check if you have any doubt.

(edited- grammar, clarity, supporting info)

Any quote involving that post should always be in full. Andrew follows it up with

“We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.”

That suggests that raids are the main issue not multi player content in general and that the issue isnt the multi player aspect, but the accessibility. People seem to want to do them, but are put off because of accessibility, lack of confidence etc caused by the difficulty spike. They did a great job addressing that with this extra side content.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

Thank you Randulf, for bringing that up. I think that in this case, ANet's metrics are flawed, but we'll see how well this works. Or ANet will keep trying anyway. For some reason, there seems to be a bias towards trying keep raids viable at all costs. Why aren't they putting more resources into PvP and WvW? Why are these modes being allowed to languish while raids get love?(in the form of strikes) I don't currently do strikes, raids, PvP, or WvW - but it makes me wonder about this unfair (IMO) distribution of resources. Are there really more people who raid than do PvP or WvW?

(edit - clarity)

[Astralporing.1957]

@Randulf.7614 said:Any quote involving that post should always be in full. Andrew follows it up with

“We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.”

And lo and behold, the gap is still as big as before, and there still isn't anything to help players work their way up. There may be more incentives to do that, but the game is still exactly as (un)helpful in that regard as when raids first launched. So, basically, players are still left completely on their own.

@Randulf.7614 said:That suggests that raids are the main issue not multi player content in general and that the issue isnt the multi player aspect, but the accessibility. People seem to want to do them, but are put off because of accessibility, lack of confidence etc caused by the difficulty spike. They did a great job addressing that with this extra side content.Sure. In fact, the Strikes vere so popular, they had to introduce additional incentives to make people do them in this patch....oh wait.

[Randulf.7614]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Any quote involving that post should always be in full. Andrew follows it up with

“We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.”

And lo and behold, the gap is still as big as before, and there still isn't anything to help players work their way up. There may be more incentives to do that, but the game is still exactly as (un)helpful in that regard as when raids first launched. So, basically, players are still left completely on their own.

@Randulf.7614 said:That suggests that raids are the main issue not multi player content in general and that the issue isnt the multi player aspect, but the accessibility. People seem to want to do them, but are put off because of accessibility, lack of confidence etc caused by the difficulty spike. They did a great job addressing that with this extra side content.Sure. In fact, the Strikes vere so popular, they had to introduce additional incentives to make people do them in this patch....oh wait.

I suspect those incentives were always planned ahead rather than reactive

[Randulf.7614]

@Elden Arnaas.4870 said:Thank you Randulf, for bringing that up. I think that in this case, ANet's metrics are flawed, but we'll see how well this works. Or ANet will keep trying anyway. For some reason, there seems to be a bias towards trying keep raids viable at all costs. Why aren't they putting more resources into PvP and WvW? Why are these modes being allowed to languish while raids get love?(in the form of strikes) I don't currently do strikes, raids, PvP, or WvW - but it makes me wonder about this unfair (IMO) distribution of resources. Are there really more people who raid than do PvP or WvW?

(edit - clarity)

I do think wvw has always been the worst treated mode for sure

[Healix.5819]

@Hesione.9412 said:I haven't started that story yet, so have read the comments here with interest. While using parties/squads (?) as an approach works well now, how about in 1-2 years time when there are fewer players doing the content?

It scales for 1+ and is easier than the regular story.

[vyncius.6105]

it really makes me sad to see how people are mad to be forced in a group with others in online game... Do you expect not to get wet in pool?

[Lupini.6938]

We're going to get really tired of the dialog between the members of that warband after a while.

I kind of like the concept...not so nuts about the "filler" content we slog through for this mission.

[AgentMoore.9453]

Just to be clear, this was not a strike mission, this was a10-man story-mode dungeon - a series of objectives with lesser bosses to defeat leading up to a final boss at the end.

I happened to like it, but there are two things that keep me from agreeing with the OP that it was clever or the best route to take:

• 10-man instanced content as a requirement for meta and story completion: You saw how badly that ended in the last map you released, but here we are again. Perhaps a solo instance should have been available for people in addition to the 10-man mode we ended up getting, with better loot available for the group version in order to encourage replay.
• Not a strike mission: This neither alleviated the concerns people had about group content nor prepared them for other strike missions (or raids). If anything, this felt like a 'hey, have you heard about dungeons?' pitch. Great if you plan on giving us more dungeons, less great if you were actually aiming for strike mission promotion. Fun content, but not a ramp.

Also, and this is less related to the dungeon, but I don't understand why the meta achievement system has gone back to requiring every achievement to be completed instead of offering choices to players/more achievements than you need. I liked it much better when you could invest your time into the bits you liked and then decide later whether the extra AP for doing all achievement was worth it without missing out on titles and skin rewards.