Making PVE viable again

[Stajan.4581]

OK here we go and I hope this gets as much action as my last one so lets give it a shot. First off let me start by saying that this comes from a couple of different sources and people that I was talking to in map chat and second off what you need to know is that I like most of you do a lot of content solo. So the question of that is why is that, well the simple answer is that the content is well easy for the most part, yes world bosses can not be soloed and most of the bounties you can not solo either but champs and thing like that can be soloed. The issue with that is that if you are trying to solo stuff so that you have enjoyment and others come over and help out than it is no longer enjoyable. So how do we fix this, well lets look back to GW1 for a moment where there was a hard mode could they do a hard mode well yes I guess they could and than have two different splits of the same map. So as you are logging in you pick hard mode or core and than you are off and running. This could take up a lot of space maybe and scripting and what not but I am not sure I am not a programmer, I think it is possible and this would allow for the content to be harder and for solo players like myself to enjoy having the help on content that is well hard. Or I could just stay in core and do solo.Now if that would be to much out of the range than what about making the maps harder by a % of the number of players on that map, you could do it as 1% per player on the map so if you have 500 players on the map than the mobs are all 500% harder, this again will allow for both solo and group players to be in the same map and all you need is a counter in the corner saying how many players are on the map. This way with some simple math you know that the map is that much harder and seeking help would be a great idea.

So if this was to happen why would people go and play in these areas, well that is simple make the drop rates better the harder the content is, and make magic find effect everything. Take a cap off of MF and let all the luck that gets eaten increase the MF to whatever someone is willing to pay for it to go to. Now does that mean that the market will be flooded with pres no.

Here is why, first people want pres so that they can craft legendaries second the MF would increase your chances by the % that you have so if you have the base max amount from eating luck right of 300 than you have a 300% chance for a drop out of that 300% chance for a drop there is another 300% chance that you will get an exotic, Now how many exotics are in the game well tons of them and you can control the pre drop rates by their number coming up. As an example The Legend which is the pre for Biofrost if there is say a 3% chance for The Legend to be chosen to drop and you have 300% MF that means that there is a 0.12% chance that The Legend can drop for you, that is out of all the exotics in the game some would have a 25% chance of dropping but of course these would not be pres.

Now in the above examples these numbers would be doubled or tripled to increase the chances in the harder content, yes tripled I said well how would you get tripled well if they were to do both of these things and make a hard mode and make the maps % harder with the number of players on the map, of course in hard mode they would not get the full 1% because having mobs with 1000% stats would just be crazy.

But this would make the PVE viable it would allow for solo runners and people learning the game to accomplish what they are looking for it would also give a chance at a new set of achievements and a new title that could be as fun and difficult to get as GWAMM from GW1.

So please I ask you to put in your thoughts make this go epic and lets have some fun talking about how we can make the game better and see if the devs like the ideas and do something with it.

Having been with Anet since the stress testing of GW1 I have seen many things and I feel that this would make PVE fun again it would open a bunch of options give players with little to no time to play the chance to get that pre they might be seeking and also give players like myself the chance to challenge ourselves in a harder content area. I personally would like the option of a hard mode when you log in where the enemies are just like say 1.5 to 2 times harder this would allow for some minor mobs to be killed solo all be it take longer but champs would not be possible and would require help.

But none of this is effective if drop rates are not increased with it, it would be a mote point and a pointless endeavor.

[Zohane.7208]

I have to admit I didn't read the intire post, but from what I could make out it looks like yet Another "hard mode plox" post?

[AgentMoore.9453]

Some roadblocks to this:

• There are plenty of solo players in the game who don't mind (and even take great pleasure in) being assisted by others or stepping in to be of assistance themselves.
• Normal PvE breaks on the regular with every patch that gets released, and some breaks are never repaired due to the intricacies of their code or the sheer backlog of things to be looked at; any proposed major changes to the game should take this into account, as those breaks may ruin what is being suggested and wipe away the value of it - It is difficult to maintain PvE in its current state, so imagine them having to wrangle two versions.
• Divvying up the PvE playerbase into different versions of the game could very well make ghost towns of the core game and its public maps, hurting new players and emptying the world for older ones.
• Offering greater rewards for playing alone goes against the cooperative nature of the MMO by incentivizing you to avoid other people.
• Running a secondary mode/version of the entire game to allow for single-player would be taxing on the game servers; you would need a large enough portion of players to want it for it to be considered worth the time and money required for development, maintenance, and support - I doubt you'll find that kind of robust majority in an MMO that has tried for so many years to promote togetherness and cooperation.
• People have, in the past, requested roleplay versions of the game where nothing can attack you; these requests have largely been ignored for the reasons stated above.

Some possible solutions:

• Turn off player nameplates; this will preserve your immersion as you can now pretend everyone else is an NPC.
• Turn off your user interface; you'll be forced to intuit what to do without the game (or other players) instructing you, and be able to pull the UI back up if you need it.
• Turn off chat channels or simply create a new chat tab with all channels disabled so you can tailor when you see the input of others and when you don't. For the first three months of owning the game, I had everything silenced for the sake of immersion and it was amazing. I'm social, however, so I turned everything back on once I was ready to network with other players.
• Undergear yourself; if you're looking for hard mode, this is the easiest way to get there.
• Join a PvE guild; these are groups whose primary purpose is the completion of open-world game content, usually populated by members who are outgoing and willing to help you achieve goals in the game which are otherwise unattainable solo; being in a guild like this is also a good way to have people when you need them, but avoid groups when you don't.

In short: Try to work with the systems that are currently in place. For something as big as you're suggesting, I think the chances of it happening are quite low and you may as well enjoy what you do have access to.

EDIT: I've also read your post a few times and I'm still not sure if you're asking for hard mode, single-player mode, or some combination of both, but the division of the playerbase remains a concern to consider.

[Luthan.5236]

Not needed. Would feel only more grindy - and most of the playerbase does not like that. (They'd play WoW instead if they liked that.) I'd like to see more intelligent mechanics to make it interesting instead of stupid upscaling on health and damage. Everything about dps nowadays ...

I remember the event in Dry Top where you had defend (near repair station) some supplies from skritt and an achievement was tied to it where not a single one is allowed to get stolen. Zerging makes it upscaled and always a few get stolen. (No one using CC. Only dps and the elite that spawn are not fast enough killed sometimes.) Solo maybe a bit harder (needs you to use all your CC). 2-3 people that actually use CC and know what to do: Then it's fun.

Triple Trouple worm has this for a bigger group of people. (Still feels either impossible or too easy ... if the right commanders and lots of people are there.)

Problem is: Good rewards would get a lot of people to just zerg it and learn the best strategies -> it always would be easy. I'd love to see some content where it actually is worth playing it with small groups seriously + some nice side mechanics (instead of "I just put in dps until it is finished") while not attracting tons of players at once.

(I guess I'll have to progress my story until I get to the strike missions in Icebrood - they seem to be something I look for ... without having to take tons of time needed for raids and limited to 10 players or so needing coordination.)

Auric Basin has the challenges where players compete against each other. (Could be used for a PvE set up where later not more players can join.) The legendary executioner has the barrier (still can be ranged from outside) where it tries to limit the amount of players (not more joining later). All ideas in a good directoin.

[kharmin.7683]

To me, the premise here is flawed. PvE is viable now.

[sasya neko.1985]

i like PvE the way it is, if they start making stuff harder it's a one way ticket to uninstall and bye bye.

[Etria.3642]

Sounds like asking for precursors, to be honest. Just play the game and make or buy one.

[Stajan.4581]

1 it is not asking for precursers it is asking that MF be effective when it is not ( that it is asking yes) 2 It is not saying to make the content harder it is saying to give the option of it on the load in screen to improve drop rates. 3 there will be no ghost towns because you simply take the TP out of the hard mode which forces people into normal mode 4 Keep fractals, raids and strikes in normal mode 5 I personally do not car is some solo players like people jumping in to help them or jumping in to help someone, I for one will not jump in unless they are asking for help. 6 keep all world bosses in normal node and not hard mode as they scale with the number of players all be it poorly. 7 Unless you played GW1 you would not understand what I am saying. In GW1 if you soloed something you had a high chance of getting a better item than if you had help. Well the same thing happens in GW2. I have done hundreds of testing where I have soloed a champion and I have in increase of about 15% chance of getting a higher grade bag than if I have help killing that same champ. That over time is a huge jump. 8 GW2 is all about the drops and the look, it is about nothing else that is everything in the game you are looking for the skin to make your char look the best you can. 9 the ideas I have given are all tried tested and true on other games and they work there is nothing to say they will not work here. 10 PVE guilds will not help with the drop rates they will not help with the better loot they will not help with the material you need to create legendaries and the extended time it takes to do so.

Where there are guilds and players out there that are worth3-4 million gold because they set up their own TP inside their guild and are getting around the TP by selling and trading to each other, the only way to stop them is to increase the drops and make their materials worthless or the Devs need to seek these players and guilds out and put a stop to them. This is all one big issue that starts with PVE not viable because the drop rates are horrible MF means nothing at all, guilds are making their own trading posts and becoming rich from it by making a mockery of the TP in the game.

These are all things that make the game bad, the time it takes to make a legendary should not take over a year or more, unless you are rich and able to buy all the mats which for the riches players in the game is a joke. All these things need fixing the the hard mode with a higher drop rate would accomplish that.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

What an odd perspective on the game.The Devs purposely created the journey for Legendaries to take time; about a year, in fact. So they stated.How strange that players belonging to a guild are able to acquire materials that have worth, but players that don't belong to a guild are not. I was always under the impression that materials are acquired by any player.
As for Guild Wars (One), the reason playing sans other party members was more lucrative was that the loot was not shared, as it was when there was more than one person in the party. That absolutely does not apply in Guild Wars 2. It matters not, in the least, whether you are partied up or not. A Champion will drop a Champion Loot Bag whether you solo it, or take it down with 50 other players.

[Skiravor.1257]

Its already hard enough. All my friends who tried and left say so.

So at least be proud that thus game keeps the wealthy super casuals at bay. I imagine anet still wants their money though. ?

[Stajan.4581]

Yes a champ will drop a bag but that bag can be 1 of four levels and if you solo a champ you have a greater chance at getting the higher level bags. I know it says that this is not the case but under my testing I can tell you this is very much the case. I have done hundreds of tests and can confirm that if someone jumps a champ while you are soloing it you have a higher chance at getting a lower lever bag than if you soloed it. Yes everyone can get mats sure, but what the guilds that have this insider TP do is sell to each other and they do not have to pay the posting tax and this is making the market look silly the market is there for a reason it is the support to find the mats you need. Legendaries should never ever ever take 1 year to make and even 6 months is to long. A month sure but, if ANET keeps up with what they said by the time you are making your legendary in a year time there should have been at least 2 new ones released. So anyone that is going for complete sets would have to 1 be rich as hell 2 have friends help them out by buying stuff for them 3 be Rich in RF and use the magic of the credit card 4 be a streamer and get support from GW2 Devs ie wooden potatoes 5 be a dev and spawn in whatever you wanted. I am sure there are other ways but that is a list of 5 ways and only 1 of them is not a total BS way and that is the magic credit card, if you want to pay for stuff whatever but that crashes prices too.

[Dante.1763]

@sorudo.9054 said:i like PvE the way it is, if they start making stuff harder it's a one way ticket to uninstall and bye bye.

Pretty much this.

[VladimaBlack.5618]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"sorudo.9054" said:i like PvE the way it is, if they start making stuff harder it's a one way ticket to uninstall and bye bye.

Pretty much this.

third-ed. one thing I despise is the constant crying to "JUST MAKE IT HARDER!!!" that EVERY game gets these days, even if difficulty isn't the point of the game.

[Avenrise.3592]

1) Asking for harder content is a good thing but unless you're talking about more raids or high tier Fractals I think you need to cool your jets. I'd love new form of harder Champ to be introduced with small scale group mechanics where the spawn is announced and a bunch of players rush over to defeat it but the general PvE experience isn't broken just because it doesn't fit with your ideals.

2) The idea of prioritising solo play in an MMO is ludicrous. I play solo and would love some kind of solo/story mode for some of the instanced content but to actively encourage it OVER teaming up is crazy. This isn't a single player game.

3) Increasing MF increases the drop rate, which decreases drop prices, which means they're no longer as desirable unless you can use the resource in which case you're shortening the game for yourself. Why would ANET ever do this? Also when you say you want MF to matter more you're asking for RNG as a mechanism to matter more and while I like a little RNG sprinkled here and there (more super rare, specifically placed drops please!) GW2 should actively stay away from the model a lot of other MMOs follow in this regard.

4) Your Champ drop rate testing, if in the hundreds, is not large enough to be significant. Tens of thousands and we could start having a proper conversation about whether this is a thing.

5) A Legendary that you can get in a month. So ignoring the fact you're willing to risk the wrath of everyone who's already got Legendaries and spent all that time and effort... it sounds like you just want to again save yourself some time. What sense would this make as a game mechanism for the entire community? How special would they be if everyone can get the full set in a few months? How would the economy handle the fact that there is now a much smaller market for other weapons/armor/sigils, or the mats used to create them?

6) The trading guilds, if they had a huge affect on the economy, would have been banned long ago. They are public knowledge and while I personally have had no dealing with them so far (may sell my GoM at some point) you cannot stop people trading in game, just make it a little harder for them (hense the cap).

Please be aware that just because a mode doesn't have what you want from it it doesn't make it broken or lacking. When suggesting whether to add anything to the game you have to look at the wider implications of your suggestions and if someone points out why it wouldn't work for the wider community don't double down. Either accept or come up with a different suggestion that might work. Also... GW2 has been around a long time and the devs, for the most part, know how best to spend their resources to ensure financial stability. It's still going relatively strong after 8 years with another expansion in the works which is a rarity nowadays so they must be doing something right!

[Tinker.6924]

Although the strict definition of viable is "capable of working successfully. feasible" but most gamers usually use "viable" to mean something like "I can do the hardest content with my build/spec/whatever and look good". I don't think I've ever seen someone twist the meaning of viable to "i'm not happy I can't play solo in a MMO"

@"Stajan.4581" Even if you got this extra hard mode, you're still going to run into situations where another random player will stop and "help" you with a mob and that player still might be way overgeared and able to stomp that mob in nothing flat, infringing on your solo-experience. What then?

It seems like the real issue is that you're expecting to play a MMO solo. Find a good solo game and play that.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:It seems like the real issue is that you're expecting to play a MMO solo. Find a good solo game and play that.

Sounds like they should be playing GW1, but then that really wasn't an MMO...

[Daddicus.6128]

I play PvE almost exclusively. It is far from non-viable. Your entire premise is flawed.

[ChillyKoti.1928]

I... don't understand the point of the post... Again asking to make the game harder? The whole Maguuma Jungle and a lot of other regions are waiting for you. This game is like the "dark souls" of mmo already.Even if it's instanced, a lot of the maps will simply be empty and to encourage solo play seems to go against the main idea of an mmo.

GW1 wasn't really an mmo like we have today. If I remember, everything was instanced except the big cities. So this was more of a solo game with some online options.

[Stajan.4581]

I... don't understand the point of the post... Again asking to make the game harder? The whole Maguuma Jungle and a lot of other regions are waiting for you. This game is like the "dark souls" of mmo already.

If you are finding the jungle hard than you are not playing it right I found it very easy and completed it on many different char and classes, It was easy because of the builds I run, I run builds that keep me alive while still dishing out damage, unlike most people that are running zerker gear and die because they can not take a hit.

2 I have played GW1 and been active with anet since the stress test of GW1 and yes GW1 was a great game and GW2 should have mirrored it. I have GWAMM on GW1 so there is really nothing for me to do there any more.

3 Everyone should be able to get legendaries, people that have a limited time to play because of whatever it may be work kids ext should not have to farm hundreds of mats from something over there time to play. ( The drop rates for basic mats, 1-6 are way to low and that is not right, than on top of that 250 mystic coins to make 1 gift is down right nuts. There is no way to farm coins at all and you have to rely on the TP log in and 2 in fractals, then there is the clovers, yes you can roll the dice on them and go to the forge but you may lose and get jack, O yeah and it cost 1 mystic coin to do that, yes you can do pvp wvw to get the lines and the gifts but what if you are not good at them than what, well now you are frustrated at the game because you can not advance in a timely manner) There is nothing in this game that should ever take over a year to get ever and it is a slap in the face to anyone who has ever bought the game.On the subject of people that have already done it well here is my answer to that to bad, you did not want to voice you opinion you did not want to speak up, you maybe one of the rich people on the game and do not care about gold because you are going against the TP. But that is your issue not mine. I want something that is fair for EVERYONE not just the people who play the game like it is a job.Making drops better having MF effect drop properly and allowing casuals the ability to achieve something in a timely manner is a benefit that will make the game stronger because they want to continue on.

So there are way to do this and making a hard mode that has a better drop rate is exactly one way to do this, and yes in hard mode I would expect people to have to have help. In the normal mode I would not, there are some bosses yes because of effects around them that you can not do the damage you want and you die because of this and in that case you need help, but so many people arrive and kill those bosses that it can be done in mear second. Sloth Queen is one, There was a group of a just 5 of us and we killed her in about 20 seconds Which is over kill since she can be soloed but you get the point.

Most of what you are saying holds some water but it is not enough, there is entire side of the community that is being punished basically for their real lives, that is not fair to them and needs to be fixed.

I have 2 legendaries one that I worked a few months for my backpack and my shinning blade sword which I made in the short amount of time allowed which If i remember is like 3-5 days because of some time gate crafting ( been so long just can not remember) , I was one of the first people in the game to have it and yes it felt good to make it in such a short period. But now I am working on aurora yes aurora the (FIRST) trinket I have been working on it for some time and I loath how long it takes and how much it is costing. The backpack took a few month if i remember and it felt right it was not to long and it was something tat was done and just felt right.

So yes PVE has to be a viable way for casuals to play where they achieve things in a timely manner, the population has gone up because we are in isolation but you can count on it that once isolation is done population will fall again. Making things fun and harder and having better drop rates (WILL) keep the population in a upward swing, while staying the same will drop the population off like a rotten potato.

Thanks again and stay safe

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, casuals that play casually should have to endure harder content? And consider it fun?
There should be no long-term goals in the game. Everyone should get everything quickly, and then say, "Well, now what? I'm bored and have nothing to achieve, anymore"?

Sounds like one option, but not one the Devs have considered viable.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Stajan.4581" said:Making things fun and harder and having better drop rates (WILL) keep the population in a upward swing, while staying the same will drop the population off like a rotten potato.Fun and harder is very subjective. I have fun every time I log in to GW2; otherwise, I wouldn't play it anymore. Making it "harder" would not be fun for me and I would guess a large number of casual players which would decrease the population.

[Obtena.7952]

The more exclusive content is, the less likely people are going to do it. That's what harder content is. It has a place, but it's definitely not in an area of the game that should be friendly to every player.

[Teratus.2859]

@Stajan.4581 said:yes world bosses can not be soloed and most of the bounties you can not solo either.

World bosses can't anymore due to the time limit but prior to that they could be solo'd if you wanted to waste your time doing so.. it really wasn't worth it though xD

As for bounties.. that really depends on the build your running and what buffs the bounty has, I've solo'd a lot of bounties since PoF came out.. not all of them but a decent amount, even some of the legendary ones.Main abilities that I don't solo on are:Signaler, which is just broken and doesn't work right.. I get blinded all the time when the green icon says I can attack.. stupid mechanic that doesn't work imo.Phase Shifter, depending on my character this one can reduce my dps too much.. some characters with good range options I'll solo on, others I wont if they have this buff.Restorer, This one is just a pain to deal with.. it can be overcome if you have enough CC and damage to deal with the healing Coalescence spawns but yeah it's usually more annoying than it's worth tbh.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@VladimaBlack.5618 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"sorudo.9054" said:i like PvE the way it is, if they start making stuff harder it's a one way ticket to uninstall and bye bye.

Pretty much this.

third-ed. one thing I despise is the constant crying to "JUST MAKE IT HARDER!!!" that EVERY game gets these days, even if difficulty isn't the point of the game.

I mean, OP is clearly asking for a seperate game mode entirely. If you'd quit over that, might as well uninstall after ANet adds a new raid or fractal CM then.

[Dante.1763]

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:

@VladimaBlack.5618 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"sorudo.9054" said:i like PvE the way it is, if they start making stuff harder it's a one way ticket to uninstall and bye bye.

Pretty much this.

third-ed. one thing I despise is the constant crying to "JUST MAKE IT HARDER!!!" that EVERY game gets these days, even if difficulty isn't the point of the game.

I mean, OP is clearly asking for a seperate game mode entirely. If you'd quit over that, might as well uninstall after ANet adds a new raid or fractal CM then.

they havent added in either in a fair while. Wonder if the low level of player interest/money income had something to do with it.