Just kill the pet!!!

Eurantien.4632 · April 20, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Seth.8906 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:3k power, berserkers amulet. Please tell me more about how power builds should deal with this. 3.3k armor+perma protection for the ranger, who only needs to press 1 and kite to win. So is the solution to core ranger that you should only fight them with condi builds? lmao

I am actually very glad that you posted this video, and please do not take this the wrong way, but that video is a great example to use for pointing out what people are doing wrong vs. Core Ranger:

The person in the video is repeatedly attempting to face tank damage instead of avoiding it. During the beginning of the match, the person actually optionally enters an Axe #5 field and walks completely through it from one end to the other, with absolutely no regard to the damage output. Furthermore, the Scrapper is very often choosing to stand in the open while face tanking projectiles, with absolutely no regard for staying in a position that is near LOS for when it is needed. The Scrapper also doesn't seem to understand that his Mortar Kit can hit around and through the pillars to anything that may try to chase him around LOS. So rather than attempting to chase the Ranger with a Mortar Kit while the Ranger is the one kiting, the person in the video should be playing defensively with his Mortar Kit, and forcing the Ranger and the Pet to be at disadvantage while trying to chase HIM around the LOS. In that event, the Ranger couldn't hit the Scrapper with axes or LB or even so easily with GS, however the Mortar Kit will land damage on just about 9/10 shots fired around the LOS because of how ground targeting works in this game. At that point, the Scrapper would only be worrying about non marks mod pet damage because the Ranger wouldn't be landing CCs on him.
The person in the video has little to no understanding of when to or when not to attack pets. Here is the general idea to go by: 1) Kite Birds while focusing the Ranger, and let AoE handle DPS output against Birds. - 2) Kill Tiger immediately with direct focus while kiting the Ranger. When the Tiger dies or gets swapped, refocus the Ranger. - 3) Play as you normally would against other pets.
The person in the video is also making the #1 biggest mistake that everyone seems to be making against Core Ranger, and that is: "He feels the need to somehow kill a bunker spec in a 1v1." <- Come on boys, we're almost 9 years into Guild Wars 2, and it is well known by this point, that when you are a against a stapled "Guild Wars 2 Bunker spec in the Conquest game mode" your objective is not to kill the Bunker unless you have a + with you, but rather decap it if 1v1 and survive against it. This is how the game has worked for nearly a decade now. The person in the video is actually successfully making the Rangers retreat from him, and if that had happened on a node in a real game, that Scrapper would be winning the node battle. But what the Scrapper does wrong, is that he keeps trying to chase the Ranger so he can kill a Bunker Spec in a 1v1, which is historically something that has been proven time and time again to be a useless pursuit, regardless of which class is speced to be a Bunker. All the Scrapper has to do to win, is hold his ground and force the Ranger away from him, while making sure he keeps the Tiger dead. He shouldn't be trying to chase a Bunker, and baiting himself into bursts from the Ranger, which he is doing often in the video.

Also a very serious side note:

The Scrapper could completely shut down any & all pet damage simply by spamming the weakness from elixir gun 1 on the pets and the ranger for that matter. That's all he'd have to do to make it impossible for the Core Ranger to have offensive pressure at all.

So stalemate behind los, since the ranger can just recall the pet and wait- that's not going to win a fight. Also lol at 90% mortar hits, clearly you've never used the kit.
He pulls the tiger back or swaps it numerous times as it's about to go down. Every ranger can do this, there's 0 counterplay because they run back twice as fast as superspeed and pet swap has no cast time. Chasing the pet back to finish it means you get to eat gs burst. You can't even los the pet, it just beats your face in until you damage it enough that it's recalled. Now you're out of damage CDs, still haven't had a chance to heal (unless you can outheal the pet damage, which you can't), and have given the ranger a chance to reposition. Which is it, dodge/mitigate the tiger's damage as soon as it pops out or focus damage on it so that they have to recall it? Pick one.
So no one should kill a core ranger because it's a bunker? A bunker with a class mechanic that hits harder than players in berserkers? Got it, that makes sense when compared to every other bunker set up.
Yeah, spam weakness on the pet. While avoiding the ranger completely. Because that'll kill both the pet AND the ranger, surefire way to win any fight is to try for a stalemate.

I get that this isn't as big of a problem in conquest where you only need to push them off the node, but what's really stopping the ranger from using tiger to force your dps and defensive cds, then immob you and burst you down? There needs to be a tradeoff, a class with this many escape mechanics running a bunker amulet shouldn't have any capability to do the damage it's doing.

@Seth.8906 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Seth.8906 said:Play a holo cc burst ranger or condi coreYou used a scapper...

okay, put up a video of that working on a half competent ranger

Do it youself?You used one of the worst spec (with www build?)And ranger? We dont know his build and was m axe (meta is lb gs) whats the point?Do a serious video with 2 meta builds with same skill player this say nothing

Hey, you have all the ideas. I'm just asking to see them in action, please enlighten everyone with your masterful ability =D

Never done a game video and dont wanna start for you.Just look the advice in this post and pls change build and learn combo an engi must know them

oh no! i won't get to see a real pro in action?! Or is it that you know the spec is busted and you can't showcase your own ideas?

@aymnad.9023 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@aymnad.9023 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@aymnad.9023 said:So what do we see in this video?Tiger dies easilySmokescale is tanky and does not deal a lot of damageIf that was on a sidenode the ranger would have ran away and you would have decap or he would have died trying to prevent you from doing so.

yeah, smokescale is only 2x as tanky as a player and deals 2x the damage the ranger does. Not half bad for an AI that can stick to you like glue

and as for the tiger, sure if the ranger doesn't call it back or swap pets. Guess you should just eat all the ranger's damage and avoid the tiger right? Since killing it was completely pointless.

You should take a closer look at your own video which shows otherwise and go behind your bias. No pet has twice ranger dps and twice its tankyness. Not to mention that I even saw ranger using his heal to try to sustain the pet, meaning he does not have it for himself.Ranger cannot swap back pet anytime it wants. And if it call the pet back, it needs to be out of the node, otherwise you will still kill it (cleave which you have a ton on your build). So it is a win for you any day.As for ranger damage, it is lower than what you expect.

Just keep practicing with all the tips given to you and you will see that "the sidenoder god build" that you and the forum mention is not that good. What this build is definitely guilty for is beeing way too easy to play but every previous sidenoder build still does a better job.

check the meter in the upper right. The pets do 2/3rds+ of the total damage. Kind of ridiculous that a bunker spec deals more damage than a dps using an AI. Where's my 8k turret hits? 4k flesh golem AAs? Why don't clones chase you around with +30% move speed doing 4k AAs?

You might want to explain how those numbers mean pet does more damage when you have range damage mitigation, the ranger is busy running away from you and his attacks are missing? I am not sure this is the correct way to analyze it. Again you will win any day on a node exactly for those reasons. Ranger has to run away from you and his damage pets cannot take any of your damage. You even see him ordering pets to stop going on you and follow him while he runs away to try to keep them alive.

please, show me any other build with that level of damage on a bunker? Why do you think it's justified to have pets AAing for 4k while using a knights amulet?

Ok

In general chronological order, starting from year 1:

Core Days - Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist
Core Days - Turret Engineer with pre-nerfed Turrets
HoT Days - Druid Bunker with pre-nerfed Bristleback
HoT Days - Scrapper Bunker in its original form
Last Days of HoT - Chronobunker
PoF days - 1st gen Spellbreaker builds that could 1v2, that were never called Bunkers, but they were definitely Bunkers
PoF days - Hello Firebrands
PoF days - Holosaiyans of all various build structures, that are allowed to be top tier in damage, CC, mobility, and sustain
PoF days - 2nd gen Scrapper Bunkers
PoF days - Boonbeasts
PoF days - Staff Daredevil suddenly appears as the strongest 1vX we've ever seen in conquest
PoF days - Fire Weaver
Pof Days - Mirage Mains Spotted that for years were notoriously the most complained about specs, ever
PoF Days - And that brings us now, to current Core Necromancer and Core Ranger

The Core Ranger is doing nothing different than the bunkers before it, which is being good at winning 1v1s on a side node. And that doesn't mean that it is good in team fights or supporting others or even chasing players to secure kills.

I'll say it again, you do not handle Bunker Specs in the same way that you would handle a normal 1v1. For all their exploitable weaknesses in other areas, these archetypes are designed to do one thing exceedingly well, and that is sit on a side node defending it like an immovable object, and kill players who aren't wise enough to leave the 1v1.

I'm not going to tell you what your opinion should be on if Core Ranger is balanced or not, but I am trying to point out that this witch hunt is getting out of control. For every 1 knowledgeable player who drops good feedback & suggestions for fixing Core Ranger, we get 10 or 20 who drop embellished mythological William Wallace like stories that greatly exaggerate how big and strong and nigh invulnerable the Core Ranger is, followed by ridiculously misinformed suggestions of how to nerf EVERYTHING on the Ranger. Frankly, I'm getting tired of hearing it and I'm honestly afraid that Arenanet will actually listen to that feedback as they have before in the past. If Ranger takes anymore nerfing in the wrong places, we won't be seeing Rangers at all in any competitive mode. <- That is no over exaggeration.

Why would you pull up past metas in order to justify pet damage after a massive power creep rollback patch? Pretty thin strawman. The issue isn't the past, it's how overtuned the pets are because they received none of the damage nerfs every other class received.

There are currently 0 bunkers with anything like the damage core ranger enjoys, it's an outlier. Which is what anet is supposed to be addressing. Pets need to have their power coefficients dropped as well as removing +50% modifiers from rangers in competitive modes to bring them in line with every other class.

Prot Holo. 0 losing 1v1s. Best survivability outnumbered. Still has good teamfight presence.

its one of those X is broken so Y can be broken too isnt it ?

We know pet damage is a little too high. But it's also the only thing ranger has going for it. This has been stated many times over by many ranger mains. There is also a counter to pets... they can die.

This is one of those just clarifying the facts because when someone says something blatantly wrong, like there are currently 0 bunkers that can compete with ranger, they should probably be informed there is one, and that is arguably better.

RisenHowl.2419 · April 20, 2020

@Eurantien.4632 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Seth.8906 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:3k power, berserkers amulet. Please tell me more about how power builds should deal with this. 3.3k armor+perma protection for the ranger, who only needs to press 1 and kite to win. So is the solution to core ranger that you should only fight them with condi builds? lmao

I am actually very glad that you posted this video, and please do not take this the wrong way, but that video is a great example to use for pointing out what people are doing wrong vs. Core Ranger:

The person in the video is repeatedly attempting to face tank damage instead of avoiding it. During the beginning of the match, the person actually optionally enters an Axe #5 field and walks completely through it from one end to the other, with absolutely no regard to the damage output. Furthermore, the Scrapper is very often choosing to stand in the open while face tanking projectiles, with absolutely no regard for staying in a position that is near LOS for when it is needed. The Scrapper also doesn't seem to understand that his Mortar Kit can hit around and through the pillars to anything that may try to chase him around LOS. So rather than attempting to chase the Ranger with a Mortar Kit while the Ranger is the one kiting, the person in the video should be playing defensively with his Mortar Kit, and forcing the Ranger and the Pet to be at disadvantage while trying to chase HIM around the LOS. In that event, the Ranger couldn't hit the Scrapper with axes or LB or even so easily with GS, however the Mortar Kit will land damage on just about 9/10 shots fired around the LOS because of how ground targeting works in this game. At that point, the Scrapper would only be worrying about non marks mod pet damage because the Ranger wouldn't be landing CCs on him.
The person in the video has little to no understanding of when to or when not to attack pets. Here is the general idea to go by: 1) Kite Birds while focusing the Ranger, and let AoE handle DPS output against Birds. - 2) Kill Tiger immediately with direct focus while kiting the Ranger. When the Tiger dies or gets swapped, refocus the Ranger. - 3) Play as you normally would against other pets.
The person in the video is also making the #1 biggest mistake that everyone seems to be making against Core Ranger, and that is: "He feels the need to somehow kill a bunker spec in a 1v1." <- Come on boys, we're almost 9 years into Guild Wars 2, and it is well known by this point, that when you are a against a stapled "Guild Wars 2 Bunker spec in the Conquest game mode" your objective is not to kill the Bunker unless you have a + with you, but rather decap it if 1v1 and survive against it. This is how the game has worked for nearly a decade now. The person in the video is actually successfully making the Rangers retreat from him, and if that had happened on a node in a real game, that Scrapper would be winning the node battle. But what the Scrapper does wrong, is that he keeps trying to chase the Ranger so he can kill a Bunker Spec in a 1v1, which is historically something that has been proven time and time again to be a useless pursuit, regardless of which class is speced to be a Bunker. All the Scrapper has to do to win, is hold his ground and force the Ranger away from him, while making sure he keeps the Tiger dead. He shouldn't be trying to chase a Bunker, and baiting himself into bursts from the Ranger, which he is doing often in the video.

Also a very serious side note:

The Scrapper could completely shut down any & all pet damage simply by spamming the weakness from elixir gun 1 on the pets and the ranger for that matter. That's all he'd have to do to make it impossible for the Core Ranger to have offensive pressure at all.

So stalemate behind los, since the ranger can just recall the pet and wait- that's not going to win a fight. Also lol at 90% mortar hits, clearly you've never used the kit.
He pulls the tiger back or swaps it numerous times as it's about to go down. Every ranger can do this, there's 0 counterplay because they run back twice as fast as superspeed and pet swap has no cast time. Chasing the pet back to finish it means you get to eat gs burst. You can't even los the pet, it just beats your face in until you damage it enough that it's recalled. Now you're out of damage CDs, still haven't had a chance to heal (unless you can outheal the pet damage, which you can't), and have given the ranger a chance to reposition. Which is it, dodge/mitigate the tiger's damage as soon as it pops out or focus damage on it so that they have to recall it? Pick one.
So no one should kill a core ranger because it's a bunker? A bunker with a class mechanic that hits harder than players in berserkers? Got it, that makes sense when compared to every other bunker set up.
Yeah, spam weakness on the pet. While avoiding the ranger completely. Because that'll kill both the pet AND the ranger, surefire way to win any fight is to try for a stalemate.

I get that this isn't as big of a problem in conquest where you only need to push them off the node, but what's really stopping the ranger from using tiger to force your dps and defensive cds, then immob you and burst you down? There needs to be a tradeoff, a class with this many escape mechanics running a bunker amulet shouldn't have any capability to do the damage it's doing.

@Seth.8906 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@Seth.8906 said:Play a holo cc burst ranger or condi coreYou used a scapper...

okay, put up a video of that working on a half competent ranger

Do it youself?You used one of the worst spec (with www build?)And ranger? We dont know his build and was m axe (meta is lb gs) whats the point?Do a serious video with 2 meta builds with same skill player this say nothing

Hey, you have all the ideas. I'm just asking to see them in action, please enlighten everyone with your masterful ability =D

Never done a game video and dont wanna start for you.Just look the advice in this post and pls change build and learn combo an engi must know them

oh no! i won't get to see a real pro in action?! Or is it that you know the spec is busted and you can't showcase your own ideas?

@aymnad.9023 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@aymnad.9023 said:
@RisenHowl.2419 said:
@aymnad.9023 said:So what do we see in this video?Tiger dies easilySmokescale is tanky and does not deal a lot of damageIf that was on a sidenode the ranger would have ran away and you would have decap or he would have died trying to prevent you from doing so.

yeah, smokescale is only 2x as tanky as a player and deals 2x the damage the ranger does. Not half bad for an AI that can stick to you like glue

and as for the tiger, sure if the ranger doesn't call it back or swap pets. Guess you should just eat all the ranger's damage and avoid the tiger right? Since killing it was completely pointless.

You should take a closer look at your own video which shows otherwise and go behind your bias. No pet has twice ranger dps and twice its tankyness. Not to mention that I even saw ranger using his heal to try to sustain the pet, meaning he does not have it for himself.Ranger cannot swap back pet anytime it wants. And if it call the pet back, it needs to be out of the node, otherwise you will still kill it (cleave which you have a ton on your build). So it is a win for you any day.As for ranger damage, it is lower than what you expect.

Just keep practicing with all the tips given to you and you will see that "the sidenoder god build" that you and the forum mention is not that good. What this build is definitely guilty for is beeing way too easy to play but every previous sidenoder build still does a better job.

check the meter in the upper right. The pets do 2/3rds+ of the total damage. Kind of ridiculous that a bunker spec deals more damage than a dps using an AI. Where's my 8k turret hits? 4k flesh golem AAs? Why don't clones chase you around with +30% move speed doing 4k AAs?

You might want to explain how those numbers mean pet does more damage when you have range damage mitigation, the ranger is busy running away from you and his attacks are missing? I am not sure this is the correct way to analyze it. Again you will win any day on a node exactly for those reasons. Ranger has to run away from you and his damage pets cannot take any of your damage. You even see him ordering pets to stop going on you and follow him while he runs away to try to keep them alive.

please, show me any other build with that level of damage on a bunker? Why do you think it's justified to have pets AAing for 4k while using a knights amulet?

Ok

In general chronological order, starting from year 1:

Core Days - Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist
Core Days - Turret Engineer with pre-nerfed Turrets
HoT Days - Druid Bunker with pre-nerfed Bristleback
HoT Days - Scrapper Bunker in its original form
Last Days of HoT - Chronobunker
PoF days - 1st gen Spellbreaker builds that could 1v2, that were never called Bunkers, but they were definitely Bunkers
PoF days - Hello Firebrands
PoF days - Holosaiyans of all various build structures, that are allowed to be top tier in damage, CC, mobility, and sustain
PoF days - 2nd gen Scrapper Bunkers
PoF days - Boonbeasts
PoF days - Staff Daredevil suddenly appears as the strongest 1vX we've ever seen in conquest
PoF days - Fire Weaver
Pof Days - Mirage Mains Spotted that for years were notoriously the most complained about specs, ever
PoF Days - And that brings us now, to current Core Necromancer and Core Ranger