Side Node Meta is AWFUL

[mrauls.6519]

Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

[Leonidrex.5649]

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Or remove more amulets, seems like ANet trend currently.

Ye that the solution just remove everything that has healing power or toughness. xD

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Idk man, holo has been mega nerfed.... 3 times now? If sidenoding, it easily dies to a +1. Hard Light Arena doesn't exist anymore. Inventions is a bad traitline. Flashbang on explosives is good, but it' probably going to have it's # of targets reduced. You could say the same about scrapper and its barriers, weaver and its evades, guardian and its symbol spam, but at the end of the day, it's not really the fantastic sidenoder people make it out to be, it's just better at doing that than teamfighting. Just because two high skill players who have sustain equipped don't anticipate being able to kill each other in one isntance doesn't mean the game is broken.

Meganerfed 3 time yet still played in almost every MOTA match as sidenoder running 0 healing power sustaining on a sidenode. If bunkers can't get away with running damage amulets then they are fine to stay as long as they can't tank 3 people on a node.

What are you talking about? Any thief +1ing against a Holo on side node will push them off the node and usually kill them. This 3v1ing is actually a problem with core bunker necro more so than anything.

take a look at mota qualifiers, and how much beating BERSERKER holo can take, even in 1v2 they can hold the node for rather long time, the damage went down too much, and some sustain was not brought down

[viquing.8254]

@wevh.2903 said:

@viquing.8254 said:The concept of sidenoders is that they have to 1v1 for ages until a +1 come. This is what make the rotation purpose.Now the real problem is when :

• The said +1 has op sustain too.
• The sidenoder can facetank 1v2 easily with his build.

Btw it is not a true match in the link, there isn't any mesmers.

Duels shoundt be endless , thats not fun fof anyone

If you build specifically as a holder with 0 dps output, you can only die to +1ing or we come back to one shot meta.I mean I understand that endless duel isn't fun but playing gw2 like a FPS on a one shot meta ins't fun as well.Now it's normal that 2 people who take all sustain ability do endless duel. In every game if you make a duel versus two healers for example, it never end. there is nothing bad with this.What is not normal is when they can facetank +1ing or does consequent damage.

[NotFound.7813]

@viquing.8254 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@viquing.8254 said:The concept of sidenoders is that they have to 1v1 for ages until a +1 come. This is what make the rotation purpose.Now the real problem is when :

• The said +1 has op sustain too.
• The sidenoder can facetank 1v2 easily with his build.

Btw it is not a true match in the link, there isn't any mesmers.

Duels shoundt be endless , thats not fun fof anyone

If you build specifically as a holder with 0 dps output, you can only die to +1ing or we come back to one shot meta.I mean I understand that endless duel isn't fun but playing gw2 like a FPS on a one shot meta ins't fun as well.Now it's normal that 2 people who take all sustain ability do endless duel. In every game if you make a duel versus two healers for example, it never end. there is nothing bad with this.What is not normal is when they can facetank +1ing or does consequent damage.

sidenoder that only can tank shouldnt be able to kill no one thats right but the point is that builds are useless af with a thief , u just team fight and let the sidenoder stay on the point , that tank build is useless at team fight and if u move the thief is going to decap u , eeven if the thief leave the mid teamfight outnumbered thats almost no problem cuz that kind of builds doesnt have dmg , the problem is builds like holo or ranger that has dmg but almost cant kill each other in a almost endless duel, thats no skill , u should be able to win a duel by enemy fails , also healers shouldnt face tank , ele is a great example u cant tank a node and thats balance , im not claiming to a one shot meta , u can have duelers who r worthit in team fight and also can win a 1v playing better than rival without being a overperfroming dps situation.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:sustain on some classes and cc would need a nerf imo. sidenoders should be able to kill each other, but should not be squishy enough to totally get obliterated by a +1. Because of that I would like cc nerfed since cc disables kiting which would be an active defence vs multiple opponents for skilled players. Dont nerf sustain too much, for example tempest is an example of a pretty great teamfight support class. It provides heal, buffs but when focused can be kill relatively easily except if the player knows how to kite well. It is more active gameplay as opposed to old firebrand or tank core necro which I think deserved the nerfs they got.

So you want people to die in 1v1-s but survive 2v1-s... buddy, you need to transform into pure energy to be on both sides of the fence at once.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Or remove more amulets, seems like ANet trend currently.

Ye that the solution just remove everything that has healing power or toughness. xD

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Idk man, holo has been mega nerfed.... 3 times now? If sidenoding, it easily dies to a +1. Hard Light Arena doesn't exist anymore. Inventions is a bad traitline. Flashbang on explosives is good, but it' probably going to have it's # of targets reduced. You could say the same about scrapper and its barriers, weaver and its evades, guardian and its symbol spam, but at the end of the day, it's not really the fantastic sidenoder people make it out to be, it's just better at doing that than teamfighting. Just because two high skill players who have sustain equipped don't anticipate being able to kill each other in one isntance doesn't mean the game is broken.

Meganerfed 3 time yet still played in almost every MOTA match as sidenoder running 0 healing power sustaining on a sidenode. If bunkers can't get away with running damage amulets then they are fine to stay as long as they can't tank 3 people on a node.

What are you talking about? Any thief +1ing against a Holo on side node will push them off the node and usually kill them. This 3v1ing is actually a problem with core bunker necro more so than anything.

take a look at mota qualifiers, and how much beating BERSERKER holo can take, even in 1v2 they can hold the node for rather long time, the damage went down too much, and some sustain was not brought down

Yeah, anyone who's played against holosmiths on the live game can immediately notice how tanky they are. I don't know why they're allowed to be so tanky with 0 investment into healing. Ranger is bad about this too but nowhere near as bad as holosmith.

[Eurantien.4632]

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

That's the problem with gw2, I've got classes that are tank/dps classes instead of one not being great at the other. Gustds and fb are suport specs yet can burst like a dps class, dh can be very tanky while dpsing as well, temp can do the same.Anet needs to decide what each spec is soposed to excel in cuz as it stands a few classes are excelling in everything and these are the ones constantly spammed in matches etc.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

That's the problem with gw2, I've got classes that are tank/dps classes instead of one not being great at the other. Gustds and fb are suport specs yet can burst like a dps class, dh can be very tanky while dpsing as well, temp can do the same.Anet needs to decide what each spec is soposed to excel in cuz as it stands a few classes are excelling in everything and these are the ones constantly spammed in matches etc.

Like some specs can duel/burst and team fight....hey there revenants...how is your rev main?...oh wait let's not leave out holosmiths or core necros, the classes in the clip seems to be a rev against another rev...yet you dare to say that tempest can do better...the bias is real

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

That's the problem with gw2, I've got classes that are tank/dps classes instead of one not being great at the other. Gustds and fb are suport specs yet can burst like a dps class, dh can be very tanky while dpsing as well, temp can do the same.Anet needs to decide what each spec is soposed to excel in cuz as it stands a few classes are excelling in everything and these are the ones constantly spammed in matches etc.

Like some specs can duel/burst and team fight....

hey there revenants...how is your rev main?

...oh wait let's not leave out

holosmiths

or

core necros

, the classes in the clip seems to be a rev against another rev...yet you dare to say that tempest can do better...the bias is real

I'm a war main, well kinda as I play once a weak for few matches if that but ok. I am totally ok with rev keeping a high burst as its thing and its sustain nerfed if other classes get their carry BS mechanics removed and we dont have tanks bursting or rangers bursting with high sustain etc, if a ranger out sustains a rev awesome but its burst should be way lower or if ranger builds for burst its sustain should be dropped as the revs would be. I'm all for the removal of this classes do everything BS. if u like damage u should pick certain classes, if u like tanking or healing u should be choosing certain classes for such and not expecting to be also great at the other jobs. Using thief for example it's a burst, high mobile squishy class and its useless support traits are a waste of space and time spent creating them when some more interesting traits befitting the archetype could have existed instead.

[Starbreaker.6507]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

Can't you just LoS those?

Ya know, like Ranger LB 2 and pets?

hehehehe

[De Bourgogne.9642]

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Or remove more amulets, seems like ANet trend currently.

Ye that the solution just remove everything that has healing power or toughness. xD

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Idk man, holo has been mega nerfed.... 3 times now? If sidenoding, it easily dies to a +1. Hard Light Arena doesn't exist anymore. Inventions is a bad traitline. Flashbang on explosives is good, but it' probably going to have it's # of targets reduced. You could say the same about scrapper and its barriers, weaver and its evades, guardian and its symbol spam, but at the end of the day, it's not really the fantastic sidenoder people make it out to be, it's just better at doing that than teamfighting. Just because two high skill players who have sustain equipped don't anticipate being able to kill each other in one isntance doesn't mean the game is broken.

Meganerfed 3 time yet still played in almost every MOTA match as sidenoder running 0 healing power sustaining on a sidenode. If bunkers can't get away with running damage amulets then they are fine to stay as long as they can't tank 3 people on a node.

What are you talking about? Any thief +1ing against a Holo on side node will push them off the node and usually kill them. This 3v1ing is actually a problem with core bunker necro more so than anything.

Yeah that's just not what happens in reality. If that was the case nobody would play holo/ranger on a sidenode if they die to every +1 from a thief lol.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Starbreaker.6507 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

Can't you just LoS those?

Ya know, like Ranger LB 2 and pets?

hehehehe

Not when they have ports. And you dont have to LoS ranger anymore, it got nerfed for hitting that hard.

[Starbreaker.6507]

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Starbreaker.6507 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

Can't you just LoS those?

Ya know, like Ranger LB 2 and pets?

hehehehe

Not when they have ports. And you dont have to LoS ranger anymore, it got nerfed for hitting that hard.

It was a joke, no need to take it so seriously.

Just sit back, chill and enjoy a dance party on a node with a holo.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

That's the problem with gw2, I've got classes that are tank/dps classes instead of one not being great at the other. Gustds and fb are suport specs yet can burst like a dps class, dh can be very tanky while dpsing as well, temp can do the same.Anet needs to decide what each spec is soposed to excel in cuz as it stands a few classes are excelling in everything and these are the ones constantly spammed in matches etc.

Like some specs can duel/burst and team fight....

hey there revenants...how is your rev main?

...oh wait let's not leave out

holosmiths

or

core necros

, the classes in the clip seems to be a rev against another rev...yet you dare to say that tempest can do better...the bias is real

There's nothing overpowered with base necro. I've never seen a class hard counter another in a PvP MMO as hard as thief hard counters every single necro build. Base necro also doesn't do enough damage to be threatening on it's own, it's mainly a control mage with helpful damage. There's a lot of builds that are flat out immune to your damage on base necro, can't say the same for holo, ranger, or rev.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:Lower defenses. Let enemies kill each other!

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses?

That's the problem with gw2, I've got classes that are tank/dps classes instead of one not being great at the other. Gustds and fb are suport specs yet can burst like a dps class, dh can be very tanky while dpsing as well, temp can do the same.Anet needs to decide what each spec is soposed to excel in cuz as it stands a few classes are excelling in everything and these are the ones constantly spammed in matches etc.

Like some specs can duel/burst and team fight....

hey there revenants...how is your rev main?

...oh wait let's not leave out

holosmiths

or

core necros

, the classes in the clip seems to be a rev against another rev...yet you dare to say that tempest can do better...the bias is real

There's nothing overpowered with base necro. I've never seen a class hard counter another in a PvP MMO as hard as thief hard counters every single necro build. Base necro also doesn't do enough damage to be threatening on it's own, it's mainly a control mage with helpful damage. There's a lot of builds that are flat out immune to your damage on base necro, can't say the same for holo, ranger, or rev.

When they remove rune of speed, what you said might be true.

I know YOU specifically run this rune on core necro.

[Shiyo.3578]

Rune of speed is really stupid to deal with, however, if you are using run of speed to kite someone, you've removed yourself from the battle and can't participate. That's why thief counters necro so hard, it's not that it beats you 1v1(which it does), it's that you cannot protect yourself and slowly die from constant re-opening without protection or healing from a support.You can kite the entire enemy team endlessly, but you can't help your teammates while doing this, and since matchmaking expects you to carry 90% of the time this is basically a free loss.