Is there any chance that Raytracing ever comes to Guild Wars 2?

[Lawtider.9024]

Making GW2 look even more beautiful already. Seeing what Reshade could do for Skyrim, I wonder if that is also possible for GW2.

[Linken.6345]

You can already use Reshade in gw2

[maddoctor.2738]

@DoggySpew.4529 said:Making GW2 look even more beautiful already. Seeing what Reshade could do for Skyrim, I wonder if that is also possible for GW2.

Raytracing requires Directx 12, this game is built on Directx 9, you can check the many threads on the subject of engine optimization to find out why ray tracing is impossible in this game. Unless sometime they modernize the engine, which is highly unlikely to happen.

[Dawdler.8521]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@DoggySpew.4529 said:Making GW2 look even more beautiful already. Seeing what Reshade could do for Skyrim, I wonder if that is also possible for GW2.

Raytracing requires Directx 12, this game is built on Directx 9Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@DoggySpew.4529 said:Making GW2 look even more beautiful already. Seeing what Reshade could do for Skyrim, I wonder if that is also possible for GW2.

Raytracing requires Directx 12, this game is built on Directx 9Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

instead of measuring frames per second you'll be measuring minutes or hours per frame :)

[Liewec.2896]

it'd look pretty but probably make the game run like hot garbage!GW2 is already the slowest, most poorly optimised game that i know of,throw raytracing in to the mix and watch everyone's PC break down in tears XD

i run GW2 from SSD on an i9900k - GTX2080ti, (both liquid cooled) 32gigs of ramand even this rig drops well below 60fps in busy scenarios, its crazy how poorly this game runs!

i've heard that there is an unofficial DX11 plug in, but i've also heard that it can be buggy and cause crashes,

so until an official engine upgrade i can't see something like raytracing coming along unfortunately!

[KrHome.1920]

90% of the lighting in GW2 is pre-baked. You would have to redesign the whole asset set to make raytracing work.

Raytraced water reflections would not look better than the current reflection system because it is already perfect. The engine copies the rendered environment above the water, flips it vertically and puts it under the water surface. For such simple surfaces like a lake this is physically correct and easy to implement.

Raytraced ambient occlusion requires the implementation of real lighting sources everywhere in the world that are recognized by the ambient occlusion renderer or your result is just wrong (like the raytraced ambient occlusion in ReShade which looks ugly and fake) and is also the kind of raytracing effect that is the easiest to aproximate with much better performing solutions like voxel based global illumination.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

People think raytracing is the next revolution but in reality it'll just return us to 2005 when everything looked like plastic or tinfoil. Game developers already tried to do this with normal mapping and cube mapping, but the real world just isn't that reflective (except on glass, etc.), almost all lighting is diffuse and that's what makes games like GW2 look so good because of radiosity.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playable

[Exillian.8127]

An engine upgrade is more likely. And that in itself is pretty slim until we see GW3.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Nope!.....

[Dawdler.8521]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. Shitty unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. kitten unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

So it was indeed not "playable" and the only current playable version is with DirectX 12 (DXR) since I haven't seen a Vulkan ray traced game yet. It's possible but not out. Or you really expect Arenanet to add ray tracing to Guild Wars 2 using... Directx 9? My point still stands, if Arenanet ever adds ray tracing they'd need to add DirectX 12 support first, and both are highly unlikely to happen.

[Friday.7864]

This game is in dire need of optimizations and a new engine, the last thing it needs is another resource hog.

[zealex.9410]

One day if they decide to upgrade on dx12 or vulkan we might see that. Sadly anet doesnt seem too keen on future proofing gw2.

[Dawdler.8521]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. kitten unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

So it was indeed not "playable" and the only current playable version is with DirectX 12 (DXR) since I haven't seen a Vulkan ray traced game yet. It's possible but not out. Or you really expect Arenanet to add ray tracing to Guild Wars 2 using... Directx 9? My point still stands, if Arenanet ever adds ray tracing they'd need to add DirectX 12 support first, and both are highly unlikely to happen.That wasnt really what my response was about, was it? You said and I will quote the exact words

"real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12"

.

That is f a l s e.

Not to mention I would argue that its Nvidias RTX supporting DirectX12 that made raytracing in games truly viable and forced AMD to invest into it for RDNA2 raytracing, and Microsoft to make DXR in order to use the RTX functions, not DirectX12 suddenly inventing the foundations of raytracing and everyone follow suit by making hardware for it. If DXR and DirectX12 didnt exist, Nvidia would just leverage all its cash to make games hardcode RTX and thus real time raytracing would be exactly as "viable". That's what used to happen in the past. It's just better now with more unified way of doing it.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. kitten unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

So it was indeed not "playable" and the only current playable version is with DirectX 12 (DXR) since I haven't seen a Vulkan ray traced game yet. It's possible but not out. Or you really expect Arenanet to add ray tracing to Guild Wars 2 using... Directx 9? My point still stands, if Arenanet ever adds ray tracing they'd need to add DirectX 12 support first, and both are highly unlikely to happen.That wasnt really what my response was about, was it? You said and I will quote the exact words

"real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12"

.

That is f a l s e.

You should quote the entire part then and not pick and choose, then respond to its entirety.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playable

Which is t r u e

[Dawdler.8521]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. kitten unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

So it was indeed not "playable" and the only current playable version is with DirectX 12 (DXR) since I haven't seen a Vulkan ray traced game yet. It's possible but not out. Or you really expect Arenanet to add ray tracing to Guild Wars 2 using... Directx 9? My point still stands, if Arenanet ever adds ray tracing they'd need to add DirectX 12 support first, and both are highly unlikely to happen.That wasnt really what my response was about, was it? You said and I will quote the exact words

"real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12"

.

That is f a l s e.

You should quote the entire part then and not pick and choose, then respond to its entirety.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playable

Which is

t r u e

Ok then answer me what is meant by "emulate" and "playable"?

So another quick search on the first playable real time fully ray traced game of latter years (not like BFV that just does parts)... Q2VKPT. Good old Quake 2 raytraced with RTX early last year aaaaaaaaand... it wasnt using DirectX12. Its was using Vulkan.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. kitten unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

So it was indeed not "playable" and the only current playable version is with DirectX 12 (DXR) since I haven't seen a Vulkan ray traced game yet. It's possible but not out. Or you really expect Arenanet to add ray tracing to Guild Wars 2 using... Directx 9? My point still stands, if Arenanet ever adds ray tracing they'd need to add DirectX 12 support first, and both are highly unlikely to happen.That wasnt really what my response was about, was it? You said and I will quote the exact words

"real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12"

.

That is f a l s e.

You should quote the entire part then and not pick and choose, then respond to its entirety.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playable

Which is

t r u e

Ok then answer me what is meant by "emulate" and "playable"?

So another quick search on the first playable real time fully ray traced game of latter years (not like BFV that just does parts)... Q2VKPT. Good old Quake 2 raytraced with RTX early last year aaaaaaaaand... it wasnt using DirectX12. Its was using Vulkan.

Do you think Arenanet should go to Vulkan then?

[Rakan Buuyon.8576]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playable

You know Wolfenstein and Dooms engines (the first ones) used real time raytracing to render everything, right?

Not only did real time raytracing exist before DX12, it existed before DirectX.

[Dawdler.8521]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Raytracing was created long before DirectX existed, so no. You're thinking of DXR. I mean technically you can run a raytraced engine software emulated on your CPU... it would just do it at 0.1 fps or something. Or you could use RTX on OpenGL/Vulkan.

Either way Anet hasnt even sorted out basics lately like server capacity (looking at WvW), I'd say the chance of seeing raytracing support - or directx12 for that matter - is maybe... 0.13%. 0.16% if thinking generously of a new expansion. Yep thats prolly about right.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playableSo looking through old articles...

"NVIDIA held a ray-tracing demonstration to further emphasise the ability and longevity of the GPU."

Guess what year? 2008. Sure they used quad Quadros and could only do 30fps so it was neither practical or useful for mere mortals. DirectX12 was released in 2015 in comparison.

"Ray tracing has previously been showcased on Intel hardware, with a customised version of Quake 4 providing noteworthy results. Similarly, AMD demoed ray tracing at its recent Cinema 2.0 event."

Did some digging and that Q4 was running in 256x256 resolution at 17 fps, hehe... And they noted that Quake 3 ray-tracing has increased performance 4 times since 2004, amazing!

Real time raytracing existed before DirectX12. kitten unpractical real time raytracing, but real time nevertheless. And Nvidia RTX is still not dependant on DirectX12. It can run on other APIs such as Vulkan (ie OpenGL). Only Microsofts own DXR is dependant on DirectX12, since that is literally the DirectX12 implementation of ray tracing. RTX cards just happen to support it (as does AMD cards). DXR will definetly become more popular with the new consoles coming as the entire hardware will be based around DirectX12.

So it was indeed not "playable" and the only current playable version is with DirectX 12 (DXR) since I haven't seen a Vulkan ray traced game yet. It's possible but not out. Or you really expect Arenanet to add ray tracing to Guild Wars 2 using... Directx 9? My point still stands, if Arenanet ever adds ray tracing they'd need to add DirectX 12 support first, and both are highly unlikely to happen.That wasnt really what my response was about, was it? You said and I will quote the exact words

"real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12"

.

That is f a l s e.

You should quote the entire part then and not pick and choose, then respond to its entirety.

Real time raytracing didn't exist before DirectX 12, you are thinking of something else. You could "emulate" anything but we are really talking about something that is playable

Which is

t r u e

Ok then answer me what is meant by "emulate" and "playable"?

So another quick search on the first playable real time fully ray traced game of latter years (not like BFV that just does parts)... Q2VKPT. Good old Quake 2 raytraced with RTX early last year aaaaaaaaand... it wasnt using DirectX12. Its was using Vulkan.

Do you think Arenanet should go to Vulkan then?If that's your take away from what I said, sure, whatever.

[Speedylord.2798]

@DoggySpew.4529 said:Making GW2 look even more beautiful already. Seeing what Reshade could do for Skyrim, I wonder if that is also possible for GW2.

I would think the possibility is 0.00%. it costs a lot, very big engine improvements should be made and given only select people use RTX GPU's it would be a bad investment for them to put money in RTX support when there are already much bigger investments to make...Currently only modern AAA titles (and well, world of warcraft because Blizzard has lots of money) have implemented the tech so far. Guild wars 2, like you say already looks stunning and if you want better lighting, they could upgrade to better lighting engines without RTX, which would be beneficial for the entire playerbase rather than just a few:). Problem being is, the engine needs optimization and most likely a new API to go with it as well.