Getting REAL sick of traits that encourage builds to stack CC.

NotFound.7813 · August 22, 2020

@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust me

NotFound.7813 · August 22, 2020

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike it

It was originally due to shockwave CC being waaaay too big for how it worked. It was OP.

Now it's because it has passive hard and soft CC for dodge rolling. It's too much.

Take away Flashbang and the class is fine.

Ye i agree with u but ppl will still complaim trust me xd

Vancho.8750 · August 22, 2020

@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust meOf course they will cause it is PoF speck and PoF Specks are bad for pvp.

NotFound.7813 · August 23, 2020

@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust meOf course they will cause it is PoF speck and PoF Specks are bad for pvp.

That makes 0 sense

Vancho.8750 · August 23, 2020

@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust meOf course they will cause it is PoF speck and PoF Specks are bad for pvp.

That makes 0 senseWhy is that, most PoF specks are not made with PVP in mind, they are bad for the mode.

NotFound.7813 · August 23, 2020

@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust meOf course they will cause it is PoF speck and PoF Specks are bad for pvp.

That makes 0 senseWhy is that, most PoF specks are not made with PVP in mind, they are bad for the mode.

Why is holo bad for the mode? All well designed skills that u can dodge , scourge maybe but holo without flashbang is not a bad design

Trevor Boyer.6524 · August 23, 2020

@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust meOf course they will cause it is PoF speck and PoF Specks are bad for pvp.

That makes 0 senseWhy is that, most PoF specks are not made with PVP in mind, they are bad for the mode.

Why is holo bad for the mode? All well designed skills that u can dodge , scourge maybe but holo without flashbang is not a bad design

To put it into perspective, taking a look at Flashbang from a standpoint of before people became used to it on Holo, imagine this:

Holosmith is already strong and always a top viable meta selection.
Developers come up with the idea for Flashbang trait.
Imagine what it could do if it were given to a Warrior or Revenant vs. other classes.
Imagine what it could do if it were given to a Thief or Ranger vs. other classes.
Imagine what it could do if it were given to a Necro or Mesmer vs. other classes.
imagine imagining how powerful this trait is, and how much it would bolster any class it was given to, regardless of the build running it.
Now imagine a developer looking at the current patching's class tier list. He notices that Holosmith is already a top 3 performing meta that crunches other classes/builds in 1v1s, has the most versatile utility by far out of any class in the game, and can hybrid job role no matter what position or situation it is in. Imagine the developer thinking this over very carefully, and still choosing to give Flashbang to the Holosmith.

Imagine balancing the game so that it was purposely imbalanced, and getting paid to do it.

Obtena.7952 · August 23, 2020

@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty crap ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Lucentfir.7430 · August 23, 2020

@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all, what you're looking for is player awareness, because it's the same sort of gameplay people complained about when Full Counter actually did damage or eating any sort of cc. Since people want to stick to the whole new Anet Balance philosophy why is CC allowed to do damage via Lightning Rod? Lightning Rod should be gutted to apply a big stack of vuln and weakness, and do double digit damage since everything else does. Even though the better fix here would be to just rework shocking aura to apply stacks of vulnerability, do a small hit of damage when it procs( On a 1s ICD per unique target) and remove the stun since that's a problematic part of Lightning Rod interaction.

Obtena.7952 · August 23, 2020

@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all,

So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does.

Lucentfir.7430 · August 24, 2020

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all,

So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does.

You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc.

Shiyo.3578 · August 24, 2020

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Vancho.8750 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Tbh some classes are just a mess right now. What I mean is that mechanically, their designs have tipped way too much into random AoE effects that are either completely passive, or once actively used they last way too long. Eles are the worst offender right now. They currently spit out a completely inordinate amount of animation stacked effects that last way way too long, half of them completely passive, with no real telegraphs until AFTER the skills are used.
I mean, imagine that vs. what it looks like when a Spellbreaker fights a SD Thief as example. <- The animations on these classes make sense and the combat still flows like a game with mechanics that is worth playing.

Holos has very deffined skills but ppl still dislike itThis kitten is also carried by random passive proc so no dice here.

Without passivr stuff pll would still complain about holo trust meOf course they will cause it is PoF speck and PoF Specks are bad for pvp.

That makes 0 senseWhy is that, most PoF specks are not made with PVP in mind, they are bad for the mode.

Why is holo bad for the mode? All well designed skills that u can dodge , scourge maybe but holo without flashbang is not a bad design

To put it into perspective, taking a look at Flashbang from a standpoint of before people became used to it on Holo, imagine this:

Holosmith is already strong and always a top viable meta selection.
Developers come up with the idea for Flashbang trait.
Imagine what it could do if it were given to a Warrior or Revenant vs. other classes.
Imagine what it could do if it were given to a Thief or Ranger vs. other classes.
Imagine what it could do if it were given to a Necro or Mesmer vs. other classes.
imagine imagining how powerful this trait is, and how much it would bolster any class it was given to, regardless of the build running it.
Now imagine a developer looking at the current patching's class tier list. He notices that Holosmith is already a top 3 performing meta that crunches other classes/builds in 1v1s, has the most versatile utility by far out of any class in the game, and can hybrid job role no matter what position or situation it is in. Imagine the developer thinking this over very carefully, and still choosing to give Flashbang to the Holosmith.

Imagine balancing the game so that it was purposely imbalanced, and getting paid to do it.

Skills team and pvp balance team aren't the same. The skills team thought flash bang was cool and fun thematically - and it is. It's still not a well designed trait and the skills team should need an OK from the balance team for ANYTHING they add to the game, but it seems it works the complete opposite way which is ass backwards

Wyrdern.4092 · August 24, 2020

so what is the big deal with Lightning Rod anyway ... don't really play much PvP because I just don't find it enjoyable but as far as I know it was considered a meme tier trait since it was added some time during core and dealt almost 2x the damage it currently does, until maybe the start of PoF.

BnooMaGoo.5690 · August 24, 2020

I don't play PvP at all because I only like my friends to kill me in any game usually. Keeps my delicate feelings from not getting hurt so much. Still, how does Stability play into this issue as counterplay? That is something I have noticed more from my experience in PvE, how much more of counterplay it has become.

Obtena.7952 · August 26, 2020

@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all,

So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does.

You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc.

You can believe what you want .. but anyone that doesn't want to get stunlocked doesn't run around solo or fight stunlock classes 1 vs. 1 ... and that's not JUST GW2 PVP either. That's ALL MMOs.

Lucentfir.7430 · August 26, 2020

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all,

So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does.

You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc.

You can believe what you want .. but anyone that doesn't want to get stunlocked doesn't run around solo or fight stunlock classes 1 vs. 1 ... and that's not JUST GW2 PVP either. That's ALL MMOs.

You can believe what 'you' want, but you still haven't dismissed, answered, reasoned or disproved my post. The OP is clearly directing his focus towards Lightning Rod, not so much that he's stun locked. So why don't you tell the OP what you really mean by "add a dash of strategy to their play." since that's just super vague of a comment, give us some examples.

Obtena.7952 · August 26, 2020

@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all,

So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does.

You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc.

You can believe what you want .. but anyone that doesn't want to get stunlocked doesn't run around solo or fight stunlock classes 1 vs. 1 ... and that's not JUST GW2 PVP either. That's ALL MMOs.

You can believe what 'you' want, but you still haven't dismissed, answered, reasoned or disproved my post. The OP is clearly directing his focus towards Lightning Rod, not so much that he's stun locked. So why don't you tell the OP what you really mean by "add a dash of strategy to their play." since that's just super vague of a comment, give us some examples.

Seems to me complaining about stacking CC IS what we are talking about here ... maybe you don't like I'm referring to that as stunlock; that's just a pedantic point. I really just don't feel like writing it all out everytime. I'm anticipating that people get the meaning and not hung up on exacting definitions. Examples of strategy to beat stunlock? Sure ... don't run around solo.

Teb.6980 · August 26, 2020

can you nerfs the attunements by a ton and increase the damage of ele autos? That'd be interesting. I wanna see an elementalist using a single auto instead of that sbsurd chain of CC and damage (direct if it's lightning rod, condi if it's earth/fire explosions) lolJust make them a tad weaker ok? Like you did to power mesmer, it can still one-shot looolll but it at least has no such absurd chain of invulnerability with CC

Lucentfir.7430 · August 26, 2020

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?

Probably encouraging people to not treat PVP like a duel and add just a dash of strategy to their play. True, stunlock isn't fun and it's pretty kitten ... but there are ways to beat it in most games ... and GW2 isn't an exception.

Your post doesn't make sense, that doesn't encourage that at all,

So not wanting to get stun locked doesn't encourage 1 vs 1 encounters? I think it does ,... well put it this way ... if you want to win and think strategically ... it does.

You're the one that's saying "it's to not encourage duels (1v1s) in pvp" about stun locking and I'm telling you that doesn't deter that thought, mainly because CC spam/stunlock (by itself) is a real killer when in fights with more than 2 people and you get trained down by people who do damage. By itself you could be a CC warrior and deal absolutely no damage. His complaint is he's getting CC spammed and getting most of the ele damage done to him by a trait that does damage on hard cc. Which goes against that recent balance philosophy that Anet pushed out that makes all CC's being the purpose for only CC etc.

You can believe what you want .. but anyone that doesn't want to get stunlocked doesn't run around solo or fight stunlock classes 1 vs. 1 ... and that's not JUST GW2 PVP either. That's ALL MMOs.

You can believe what 'you' want, but you still haven't dismissed, answered, reasoned or disproved my post. The OP is clearly directing his focus towards Lightning Rod, not so much that he's stun locked. So why don't you tell the OP what you really mean by "add a dash of strategy to their play." since that's just super vague of a comment, give us some examples.

Examples of strategy to beat stunlock? Sure ... don't run around solo.

:lol: I said examples, as in more than one, but that's the sort of response I expected tbh since it seems like you're blowing smoke up people's chimney . What's to say you won't get stunlocked in a teamfight, then what other strategy do you have? :#

Obtena.7952 · August 26, 2020

@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Lucentfir.7430 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Ovark.2514" said:I just fought a ele who did nothing but CC me and almost all the damage came from lightning rod. Why are you encouraging this type of "gameplay" anet?