Put in some proper tutorials into beginner instance before Steam players flood in

[crepuscular.9047]

It's great that the team have finally setup a new player's guide, but no offense to the team, only a very small portion of new players will likely to read itit took me about 5 minutes to locate it on the website, it should be like either the first or second slide of the rotating carouseli can't even recall when was the last time i ever read anything that came with a package, i just YOLO it, even with IKEA furniture

the best way to teach players is in-game; you can watch tutorial video for a raid boss like 50 times and remember mechanic, but still get killed in the first 5min because you lack the hands-on experience

Teach the basics of attack evasionsJumping and Dodging - Reduce the damage from the shockwaves from the boss, still knocks backand make two types of shockwaves

• a small one that players can jump over
• a big one that players have to dodge over

Teach them about Breakbars and Special Action keyAdd a buff or shield to the boss to reduce damage by 99%, which can only be removed by breaking the breakbarWhen the boss fight starts, they are given a melee ranged (so they cannot ignore the attack evasion mechanic) special action to be used on the boss to break the breakbar

Add heart to the instanceInstead of boosting player to L2 on completion of story, add a heart to story instance where the player can choose to do to get to L2... of course do not count it towards map completionmy idea is a heart NPC on the road side of the main path that waves to players with speech bubble requesting for assistance

Tips on loading screensIt's long overdue, and raised by many beforestart adding Tips on loading screens just like other MMOs, it's randomly loads a tip & trick from a library of tips, you can even setup like a wiki page that players can contribute to and get vetted before added to the library of tips

Nice to Have, in-game tutorial videosIf possible, not sure how difficult it would be to implement an in-game mini window that plays a video that can be dismissedI'm just taking a page from BDO, in-game tutorial short videos / looping gif demonstrating of these mechanics with on-screen keyboard presses in a mini pop-up window

If too hard, then maybe a full screen tutorial video that will only play once per account, like the LA rebuilt intro video when entering LA for the first time?

[Omega.6801]

Would be great, but I doubt ANet cares for these things. Prove me wrong DevM8s!

[yoni.7015]

I don’t think we need this.

[Martnor.1746]

I think it is a great idea. I believe that unless you are really determined to play the game, you won't go searching for more information online. We want to capture the players that have just picked up the game and want to give it a go. Let's give those players a reason to stay long term. I watched a few streams of people trying out Guild Wars 2. A good number just seem confused and do not understand that the next story chapter will unlock at level 10. So a lot of them just wander around and a few lose interest. These players need more guidance on what they can do in the game. But I fully agree with all the points from the OP re break bars etc. These are important late game and too few understand what CC is. Starting these at an early stage builds a good foundation.

[Friday.7864]

They shouldn't be allowed to leave tutorial instance without a clear demonstration on how important CC and rotations (proper skill use) are.People come crying to the forums later on when they get kicked from a party because all they do is autoattack....

[ShadowCatz.8437]

Why not place new players (those that haven't done any HP or Mastery before) in a Icebrood camp of Bangars army (to give a context that feels up-to-date with how this game have been marketed with Icebrood Sage) where new player have to learn how to use skills with combo fields (both as single player and in coop/team set up - this to make give an understanding for how one can make use of combo fields when most people are down and when one play harder content where staying close and blasting those fields can change how battle work - boon and condition should also be mentioned here as both are part of battle where distance matter), how to dodge and jump-dodge to avoid getting CCed and take minor damage (goal here is to gradually learn to fight and still do damage without player feeling underwhelming or under pressure from other players - this can be adjusted for each player like in Adventures where one earn better reward and one need to have Gold to get to next step - reward can be unlock of Mastery, HP or any currency). Purpose here is after all new player will train to become a better player with understanding of how things work in game.

It should also be a test ground for key binding as most players that a new seem to forget to adjust skills to be in reach, sometimes this is needed for each profession as some make use of profession mechanics that demand high access to those keys (F1-F5 on most key board are too far from WASD or ESDF keys for movement). Here it should be mentioned that settings also will be stored in ANets cloud server system, so with when one log into same account all clients (copies of game) will also have the same set up in key bindings (option>control) and not only for characters. (This is important to know when things like Templates get broken and one can not change skills or see any skills on Revenant - without this knowledge one easy think it is "only" local issue that can be repaired on client level, which doesn't work when part of game settings now are uploaded and stored central like key bindings or templates for gear, weapon and build.)

[kratan.4619]

@"Friday.7864" said:They shouldn't be allowed to leave tutorial instance without a clear demonstration on how important CC and rotations (proper skill use) are.People come crying to the forums later on when they get kicked from a party because all they do is autoattack....

Found the elitist, how would the game even know what "rotations" an individual player "should" be using. Fully disagree with this post as it is only trying to force people to play in what they think is the best way.

[Ototo.3214]

@kratan.4619 said:

@"Friday.7864" said:They shouldn't be allowed to leave tutorial instance without a clear demonstration on how important CC and rotations (proper skill use) are.People come crying to the forums later on when they get kicked from a party because all they do is autoattack....

Found the elitist, how would the game even know what "rotations" an individual player "should" be using. Fully disagree with this post as it is only trying to force people to play in what they think is the best way.

While I'll agree expecting the game to teach "rotations" is a bit out there, it would be nice if the game did a better job of explaining defiance bars and how to break them. It's a simple concept and is a big aspect of a ton of PvE content.

[Friday.7864]

@kratan.4619 said:

@"Friday.7864" said:They shouldn't be allowed to leave tutorial instance without a clear demonstration on how important CC and rotations (proper skill use) are.People come crying to the forums later on when they get kicked from a party because all they do is autoattack....

Found the elitist, how would the game even know what "rotations" an individual player "should" be using. Fully disagree with this post as it is only trying to force people to play in what they think is the best way.

Last guy who got kicked from a squad due to low dps got so upset on the forums they had to delete his entire thread.Also, I don't understand what's so "elitist" about explaining to people how proper skill usage can make an enormous difference in DPS. A basic demonstration with the first 5 weapon skills would be plenty to show the advantage of using skill combos over autoattacking or blindly bashing buttons. If you disagree with that it just shows how little you care about new players and the trouble/conflicts they'll get into later. Showing up with 2k dps when everyone else does 20k will get them kicked and often blocked.This game is VERY different from other games as in how the gear doesn't define your DPS. Your skills as a player do.That should be clearly communicated to new players, that's the entire point.

EDIT: I'm not asking for people to learn snowcrows rotations by heart, but having some basic understanding which skills to use first and what they do would benefit them greatly.

[maddoctor.2738]

Although a tutorial is badly needed and an excellent idea, I have another proposal too.Make an adventure (perhaps in the new expansion area?) or better yet accessible somewhere in LA, that leads the players next to a golem. It's an adventure that teleports players, like the punch-o-matic, but players keep their gear and build. The "goal" of the adventure is to kill the target fast enough to earn the adventure medals. It could have "difficulty" settings, with lower difficulties providing buffs to the player, like boons and profession buffs. That way every player will have access to a DPS check, see the DPS of other players and be "forced" to get better. Now, obviously since this is an adventure the limits for silver/gold shouldn't be only for pro raiders, but they should be tight enough to require at least some good enough build to succeed.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

@Friday.7864 said:

@kratan.4619 said:

@Friday.7864 said:They shouldn't be allowed to leave tutorial instance without a clear demonstration on how important CC and rotations (proper skill use) are.People come crying to the forums later on when they get kicked from a party because all they do is autoattack....

Found the elitist, how would the game even know what "rotations" an individual player "should" be using. Fully disagree with this post as it is only trying to force people to play in what they think is the best way.

Last guy who got kicked from a squad due to low dps got so upset on the forums they had to delete his entire thread.Also, I don't understand what's so "elitist" about explaining to people how proper skill usage can make an enormous difference in DPS. A basic demonstration with the first 5 weapon skills would be plenty to show the advantage of using skill combos over autoattacking or blindly bashing buttons. If you disagree with that it just shows how little you care about new players and the trouble/conflicts they'll get into later. Showing up with 2k dps when everyone else does 20k will get them kicked and often blocked.This game is VERY different from other games as in how the gear doesn't define your DPS. Your skills as a player do.That should be clearly communicated to new players, that's the entire point.

I think what people react negative here on forum against is when you use the expression "rotation". From what I understand your point is that there certain combination (field + blast) that increase damage or sustain (water field as an example). I have never in any game only being doing AA and thought that is the right way to play any game, so I don't buy that argument. In that case it doesn't matter how they will be introduced to game as they will ignore it and expect other players to carry them.

As for skill vs gear I believe it can be misleading to make that kind of distinction. New player need to learn that they have to combine attributes (focus on power or condition damage, not mix too much of both if they don't have quad attributes like in Viper) and get all gear and weapon in exotic tier as on level 80 character it will do reasonable damage and have enough base defence from armour. Mixing green level 69 with level 80 and believe that it will not matter as long you are skilled enough will not help a new player to understand mechanic in this game. Skill from player are still important, but it doesn't help if your total power or condition damage isn't high enough even in open world content (I don't talk about raids or that, but in event like Bounty).

When you use level 80 boost it is exotic gear and weapon you get and exotic is easy to get your hands compared to ascended or legendary tier.

The major problem for new player is to avoid getting overwhelmed and confused by all how all things work in this game. GW2 wiki is good start for new player to read up on things and even take a step by step approach while doing story, events or how to craft in this game. Achievement system is partly build around this approach, but it is getting messy as it have too much in the limited space and can be confusing as to when look for story progression, when for achievement and when for events (incl PvP, WvW and Raid contents progression in achievement). The best way would be a re-design and make a better way to organise "watch list" after map and personal goals. Even a type of reminder would be in place as there too much that are timed or need certain conditions to start.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I think most of that would be overload for a brand new player.Perhaps, something about break-bars, something else about combos (it's already in the NPE), skill rotation, etc. before one enters expansion content, or hitting L80.
Other content suggested in already in the new Tutorial (achievement).

[Trise.2865]

People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does frequently show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

[Friday.7864]

@"Trise.2865" said:People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does frequently show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

Even discovery should have limits. If it's important you should know about it from day one, no excuses.Silly example: It took me a year to figure out the red bars below skills are range indicators. Would have been lovely if I was told about it immediately. A ton of people in guild also didn't pay attention to it and were surprised about it when I told them ._.

[Trise.2865]

@Friday.7864 said:

@"Trise.2865" said:People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does

frequently

show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

Even discovery should have limits. If it's important you should know about it from day one, no excuses.Silly example: It took me a year to figure out the red bars below skills are range indicators. Would have been lovely if I was told about it immediately. A ton of people in guild also didn't pay attention to it and were surprised about it when I told them ._.

But you DID figure it out, didn't you? and shared that discovery with your friends?

Working as intended.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

@Trise.2865 said:

@Friday.7864 said:

@Trise.2865 said:People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does

frequently

show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

Even discovery should have limits. If it's important you should know about it from day one, no excuses.Silly example: It took me a year to figure out the red bars below skills are range indicators. Would have been lovely if I was told about it immediately. A ton of people in guild also didn't pay attention to it and were surprised about it when I told them ._.

But you DID figure it out, didn't you? and shared that discovery with your friends?

Working as intended.

I would go as far as to claim you are the only one thinking it is "working as intended" when something is hidden or not even used as a built in feature in game. Too often is "working as intended" used as a lazy form of excuse from player that don't want things to change so other player also can use this knowledge or feature without having to be lucky enough to "discover" this.

I read wiki a lot to learn how things work in game (as it is the only "formal" documentation for how this game work). Still I didn't know when you right click in the lower right section of screnn where have a reward chest from loot turning up that it would directly put all items into inventory instead of first open (move cursor to centre of screen) and then confirm through a click on a button. Doing this for every reward container is really not good ergonomic and take a lot of time when you need to open some of these for token or keys for the map event you are doing. FYI been playing this game before HoT was even published, so not a new player.

[Friday.7864]

@Trise.2865 said:

@Friday.7864 said:

@Trise.2865 said:People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does

frequently

show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

Even discovery should have limits. If it's important you should know about it from day one, no excuses.Silly example: It took me a year to figure out the red bars below skills are range indicators. Would have been lovely if I was told about it immediately. A ton of people in guild also didn't pay attention to it and were surprised about it when I told them ._.

But you DID figure it out, didn't you? and shared that discovery with your friends?

Working as intended.

I don't want to resort to stupid comparisons so I'll just repeat what I wanted to get across in hopes you might eventually understand.I would have greatly appreciated if the creators of the game told me about a useful feature the moment I started playing the game instead of me finding out by chance from a random person and playing without that feature for over a year... As that is the whole point of tutorials.

It's sad how much story they shove down our throats but they couldn't make a decent effort to tell people about the game's basic mechanics even after 8 years... Was forced to make a guides channel on Discord so I could direct newcomers there in the hopes they will read up on something as basic as CC because the game refuses to tell them about it.

[DaFishBob.6518]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Although a tutorial is badly needed and an excellent idea, I have another proposal too.Make an adventure (perhaps in the new expansion area?) or better yet accessible somewhere in LA, that leads the players next to a golem. It's an adventure that teleports players, like the punch-o-matic, but players keep their gear and build. The "goal" of the adventure is to kill the target fast enough to earn the adventure medals. It could have "difficulty" settings, with lower difficulties providing buffs to the player, like boons and profession buffs. That way every player will have access to a DPS check, see the DPS of other players and be "forced" to get better. Now, obviously since this is an adventure the limits for silver/gold shouldn't be only for pro raiders, but they should be tight enough to require at least some good enough build to succeed.

Arena of the Wolverine?

[Trise.2865]

@ShadowCatz.8437 said:

@Trise.2865 said:

@Friday.7864 said:

@Trise.2865 said:People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does

frequently

show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

Even discovery should have limits. If it's important you should know about it from day one, no excuses.Silly example: It took me a year to figure out the red bars below skills are range indicators. Would have been lovely if I was told about it immediately. A ton of people in guild also didn't pay attention to it and were surprised about it when I told them ._.

But you DID figure it out, didn't you? and shared that discovery with your friends?

Working as intended.

I would go as far as to claim you are the only one thinking it is "working as intended" when something is hidden or not even used as a built in feature in game. Too often is "working as intended" used as a lazy form of excuse from player that don't want things to change so other player also can use this knowledge or feature without having to be lucky enough to "discover" this.

I read wiki a lot to learn how things work in game (as it is the only "formal" documentation for how this game work). Still I didn't know when you right click in the lower right section of screnn where have a reward chest from loot turning up that it would directly put all items into inventory instead of first open (move cursor to centre of screen) and then confirm through a click on a button. Doing this for every reward container is really not good ergonomic and take a lot of time when you need to open some of these for token or keys for the map event you are doing. FYI been playing this game before HoT was even published, so not a new player.

As someone who played since before launch, and figured these things out in minutes, not months, and didn't bother to explain it because everyone else had already done the same... Try celebrating your discoveries instead of lamenting your past ignorance, you'll have more fun.

Bonus: now that you know things are being hidden from you, maybe try harder to find them instead of waiting to be told what to do? The clues are there; always have been. You need only expand your perceptions.

[Friday.7864]

@Trise.2865 said:

@ShadowCatz.8437 said:

@Trise.2865 said:

@Friday.7864 said:

@Trise.2865 said:People seem to forget a major theme of Guild Wars 2 is "Discovery". Crafting, combat, skills, mechanics... all is meant to be figured out by the player to fuel their feelings of accomplishment (or looked up on the various community forums, thus driving community interaction). The game doesn't tell you everything it has to offer, but it does

frequently

show that it offers more than it's telling, and how to figure them out.

Even discovery should have limits. If it's important you should know about it from day one, no excuses.Silly example: It took me a year to figure out the red bars below skills are range indicators. Would have been lovely if I was told about it immediately. A ton of people in guild also didn't pay attention to it and were surprised about it when I told them ._.

But you DID figure it out, didn't you? and shared that discovery with your friends?

Working as intended.

I would go as far as to claim you are the only one thinking it is "working as intended" when something is hidden or not even used as a built in feature in game. Too often is "working as intended" used as a lazy form of excuse from player that don't want things to change so other player also can use this knowledge or feature without having to be lucky enough to "discover" this.

I read wiki a lot to learn how things work in game (as it is the only "formal" documentation for how this game work). Still I didn't know when you right click in the lower right section of screnn where have a reward chest from loot turning up that it would directly put all items into inventory instead of first open (move cursor to centre of screen) and then confirm through a click on a button. Doing this for every reward container is really not good ergonomic and take a lot of time when you need to open some of these for token or keys for the map event you are doing. FYI been playing this game before HoT was even published, so not a new player.

As someone who played since before launch, and figured these things out in

minutes

, not

months

, and didn't bother to explain it because everyone else had already done the same... Try celebrating your discoveries instead of lamenting your past ignorance, you'll have more fun.

Bonus: now that you

know

things are being hidden from you, maybe try harder to find them instead of waiting to be told what to do? The clues are there; always have been. You need only expand your perceptions.

Well I do not wish to up with the same nonsense older players did.I find it unbelievable how Anet didn't even tell me what CC is when I started playing.The game lacks the most basic tutorial and that's a fact you can't change with any amount of sugarcoating ^^

[Fueki.4753]

I don't think they should add things merely for the sake of the $team release.

They need every single dev they have for the upcoming late 2021 expansion, as well as finishing Season 5.

[aspirine.6852]

@yoni.7015 said:I don’t think we need this.

I think the starter areas allready take care of this...

[demitel.1340]

I don't think that new players has to be hand fed by the game too much, it takes away all the fun and excitement to learn new stuff by yourself. Guild Wars 2 is already easy to learn and casual friendly game. I hate this trend in gaming that games has tutorials like "press space bar to jump" or "press 1 to attack", this was exaggerating example, but I bet you all got the point. Games are made too easy so they can be targeted for larger audiences, aka bad or casual players. That is just bad business and makes an assumption that players are stupid.

If some people are too ignorant to learn anything by themselves and want game developers to give them everything on a silver plate, maby games are not meant for you then. Or then they have to play easier games which does not require thinking.

[coso.9173]

tips on loading screens is something relaly easy to do, I wish we had them, even if many people won't read them, its not much work and can help a lot.

[Friday.7864]

No one is talking about babying people to the point where you tell them which key to press to move forward or anything close to it...Dodging, CC and the importance of using different skills and combinations should be properly demonstrated though!Those are core mechanics that differentiate GW2 from other games - not knowing about those results in quite a miserable experience for both new and veteran players when they end up doing content together.And regarding the loading screen tips, that should be super easy to implement while being more than useful.