What about a story and easy mode for the Raids?

[battledrone.8315]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Black Wolf.7348" said:story and easy mode is not going to change anything. you need to put time and effort into it to get into raids. the start is always the hardest.Biggest example that it wount work is strikes. they made strikes as a go between to get into raids but ppl dont go into raids after. they stick to easy content where 5 ppl can carry if need be.Anet themselves said there is a large gap between the average casual player and the people in the end game content like fractal cms and raids.it all comes down to the will to do it and putting some time and effort into it and you will progress. too many just dont want to.

You are looking at it the wrong way. It's not about the easy mode being a stairway through which more players will enter the hard mode. You're right that this is not going to work (or at least not to the degree where it would be worth the resources spent). The real gain for raids is somewhere else. You need to stop thinking about hard mode population only, but start to think about the impact of increasing the

total

raid population (with easy mode included). If a lot of people get interested in easy mode, then the overall raid population would increase, and that might persuade devs that raids are worth spending resources on, after all. And this would benefit hard mode as well.

Strikes, by the way, can't do that - because they are a separate mode. The bigger population in strikes can at best persuade devs to spend more resources on

strikes

. It won't persuade them to get back to making more raids.

So that's the fundamental difference between strikes and easy mode ?

What would an easy mode achieve that strikes did not ?

An easy mode means people of differing skill levels playing raids. It means a larger raid population. This might, in turn, mean more resources allocated to raids.

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

[Fueki.4753]

@battledrone.8315 said:it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

Tbh, anyone who says LFRaiders are not real raiders deserves their opinion to be dismissed.LFR is raiding, even if it is on the lowest niveau. Therefore, the people in there are raiders.

After all, raiding is defined by its game mode, not by the difficulty scale.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Strikes is honestly a failure they made boneskinner and whisper, franir and koda impossibly hard

[Astralporing.1957]

@battledrone.8315 said:it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raidersLFR is a raid content (according to developers), so the players that participate in it can be rightly called raiders. Whether you like it or not., and most will never become one either.Probably.those resources would be better spend on some actual casual content.Easy mode is supposed to be a casual (or semi-casual) content. Even if it's not on the same level as open world content. Being casual doesn;t mean you need to like the same types of content as other casuals.

they should never had made raids in the first place.Maybe, but they did, and it's not possible to turn back the clock on this.

[Ayrilana.1396]

The majority of GW2 resources are spent on casual PVE content. It’s a tad selfish to believe that more resources should be spent towards you when you’re already receiving the bulk of it. Would you also be requesting that resources for WvW and sPvP be spent elsewhere as well?

Raid were designed for the players that wanted challenging, coordinate content in the game. If you prefer “casual content“ like in open world Tyria then you were not the target audience. Not all content needs to be centered around those that prefer “casual” open world content.

Now IF there were to be a story mode, it would need to have the following:

• No achievement progression
• No raid rewards

Same goes for an “easy” mode. Let also be honest about the whole training argument, it was pretty much never going to happen in an easy mode. You’ll have casual players finding the quickest way to clear the “easy mode”. The mechanics will be so less of a threat that players will simply ignore them or not even notice them. Even if they do try to train, they will still need to train on normal mode. Essentially it’s an inefficient use of your valuable time.

[kharmin.7683]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:they should never had made raids in the first place.Maybe, but they did, and it's not possible to turn back the clock on this.They could always abandon raids. Like they abandoned dungeons. However, I doubt that would happen unless they abandon raids for strikes.

[Ashen.2907]

@battledrone.8315 said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

[Bursting.1976]

An easier mode would do nothing to get me into raiding. So for me it would be a waste of resources to make an easier version, since from what I have observed a lot of people who are already into raiding don't find it to be particularly difficult anyway. Now a solo option just to see the story, with no rewards? That may interest me.

[Linken.6345]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

Look at dungeon story mode a raid story mode would have the same kind of rewards,No magnetite shards, gating crystals or unique ascended.Bosses drop 2 blues and a green, 1 rare each boss and 1 extra when wing is completed the rares are all once a week.Bosses could if anet want to be nice have a miniscule chance to drop random ascended weapon/armor boxes like world bosses.

[Ashen.2907]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

My take is this:

If story mode exists as a training wheels (pardon the analogy, not meant to be insulting, we all have to learn somehow) for normal raids then story mode should have minimal direct rewards. In that case the reward is the preparation for normal mode.

If story mode exists as its own content, sharing an instance with normal mode raids, for the purpose of providing content for more people to play, then it should have its own rewards. I personally think that more difficult content, often requiring more time investment, should have greater rewards to offset the time requirement, but that does not mean that lesser challenge content should have no rewards.

[Ashen.2907]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

[Linken.6345]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

Yes but then they can make all the easy content like living story, easy strikes in to hard content as well with a measly 10% increase in cost.

So it really shouldent be very hard to get more normal to us raids now would it?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Linken.6345 said:Look at dungeon story mode a raid story mode would have the same kind of rewards,Dungeon story mode was not a content people repeated. It was something you did once (and maybe repeated later with friends that haven't done it yet). It had absolutely no staying power.No magnetite shards, gating crystals or unique ascended.Bosses drop 2 blues and a green, 1 rare each boss and 1 extra when wing is completed the rares are all once a week.Bosses could if anet want to be nice have a miniscule chance to drop random ascended weapon/armor boxes like world bosses.With such rewards easy mode would also have no staying power. Which is obviously what some people want, but it would completely negate any reason of ever having that mode in the first place.

@"Sobx.1758" said:If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be.It's not like the current difficulty would suddenly disappear. Easy mode would not remove current difficulty any more than T1 fractals "remove" T4s now. So, i don't see how that could hurt raids in any way.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raidsA popular easy mode does something for raids - namely it creates a reason why devs should put any resources into them (which, if you notice, they aren't doing now. Because the current raids are not popular enough).

Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.True. I don't. Personally, i don't care if raids remain completely abandoned by devs, like they are now. I have my legendary armor already, and that was all i really was interested in from that content. I just don't want that part of the game to go to waste. And me not caring about normal difficulty doesn't mean easy mode could not help it - because it could.

[Linken.6345]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Linken.6345 said:Look at dungeon story mode a raid story mode would have the same kind of rewards,Dungeon story mode was not a content people repeated. It was something you did once (and maybe repeated later with friends that haven't done it yet). It had absolutely no staying power.No magnetite shards, gating crystals or unique ascended.Bosses drop 2 blues and a green, 1 rare each boss and 1 extra when wing is completed the rares are all once a week.Bosses could if anet want to be nice have a miniscule chance to drop random ascended weapon/armor boxes like world bosses.With such rewards easy mode would also have no staying power. Which is obviously what some people want, but it would completely negate any reason of ever having that mode in the first place.

@"Sobx.1758" said:If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be.It's not like the current difficulty would suddenly disappear. Easy mode would not remove current difficulty any more than T1 fractals "remove" T4s now. So, i don't see how that could hurt raids in any way.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raidsA popular easy mode

does

something for raids - namely it creates a reason why devs should put any resources into them (which, if you notice, they

aren't

doing now. Because the current raids are

not

popular enough).

Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.True. I don't. Personally, i don't care if raids remain completely abandoned by devs, like they are now. I have my legendary armor already, and that was all i really was interested in from that content. I just don't want that part of the game to go to waste. And me not caring about normal difficulty doesn't mean easy mode could not help it - because it could.

Yea and the devs would totaly not go oh we have 80% doing easy mode so thats popular why waste time doing normal mode at all.

I thought story mode was for people to see the story you do that once or twice.

[Sobx.1758]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

Sure it is. But providing same rewards for an easier, faster and way less punishing (IF punishing at all, considering what some people would apparently want to play through in place of raids -or even story mode bosses) content effectively takes away the reason to go through any effort to play through the harder one, so stop pretending that making an easy/introductory/tutoria/story-mode-like copy of raids giving the same rewards as regular raids (or even anywhere close to them) would somehow save the content for raiders. It wouldn't. At this point you're scrapping it anyways.

[Ashen.2907]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

Sure it is. But providing same rewards for an easier, faster and way less punishing (IF punishing at all, considering what some people would apparently want to play through in place of raids -or even story mode bosses) content effectively takes away the reason to go through any effort to play through the harder one, so stop pretending that making an easy/introductory/tutoria/story-mode-like copy of raids giving the same rewards as regular raids (or even anywhere close to them) would somehow save the content for raiders. It wouldn't. At this point you're scrapping it anyways.

I said nothing about the same rewards.

[Ashen.2907]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

Yes but then they can make all the easy content like living story, easy strikes in to hard content as well with a measly 10% increase in cost.

So it really shouldent be very hard to get more normal to us raids now would it?

Well, a 10% increase in cost would need to produce much greater than a 10% increase in use. Even so, sure add some health and damage to strikes, etc for a difficult mode.

[Sobx.1758]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

Sure it is. But providing same rewards for an easier, faster and way less punishing (IF punishing at all, considering what some people would apparently want to play through in place of raids -or even story mode bosses) content effectively takes away the reason to go through any effort to play through the harder one, so stop pretending that making an easy/introductory/tutoria/story-mode-like copy of raids giving the same rewards as regular raids (or even anywhere close to them) would somehow save the content for raiders. It wouldn't. At this point you're scrapping it anyways.

I said nothing about the same rewards.

Then you've answered out-of-context to my post you've quoted, because what I answered to was this:"As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards."

I think that's something I said in this thread mutliple times including the latest posts, I thought my point is pretty clear by now. The very post you answered to included:Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don'tSo if you don't have a problem with minimal/no rewards, then I'm not sure what was the point of your answer at all and why you think I needed the explaination you gave me in your response about content popularity and helping current raids when I keep saying that the players would need a reason (like, you know, the rewards) to move to actual raiding at currently available level for that idea to even be relevant. Otherwise, as I wrote in last post, you're just scrapping raids anyways and introduce second story mode that seems to be pretty pointless.

[Ashen.2907]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

If easy or story mode for raids were to be accessible to casual players then they would be casual content. I doubt many easy/story mode players would move on to normal raiding, but the point of story/easy mode would not be to encourage that. It would exist to increase the number of people playing the instance in any form. I guarantee that it would.As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.I know why some people try to push that narrative, but in the long run it would

hurt

raids, not help them.

If you turn the raids to be basically a shorter story mode then you've already "hurt the raids" by essentially removing them from the game, not sure why some people try to pretend that's not what it would be. What is the "easy raid" anyways? Removing the mechanics? Making mechanics so forgiving that they can be easly outsustained, so they might as well not exist? Not requiring understanding of how your class/build works or not having a semi-coherent build (because you already don't need the ones that are considered "best", they just make it easier in the first place)? Then what's the point? Free rewards? Stop pretending you want raiding when you don't want raiding, but some kind of story-mode extension with better rewards o ntop of it.

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't.

Easy mode means that when ANet is deciding whether or not to spend a bunch of money developing a new instanced piece of content they can expect it to entertain a larger number of players, potentially paying players, than without. How many people will use a given product is a huge determining factor in whether or not to spend resources developing it...in any industry. Adding a second difficulty tier might increase the cost by 10% while increasing the user count by 100-1000%.

Sure it is. But providing same rewards for an easier, faster and way less punishing (IF punishing at all, considering what some people would apparently want to play through in place of raids -or even story mode bosses) content effectively takes away the reason to go through any effort to play through the harder one, so stop pretending that making an easy/introductory/tutoria/story-mode-like copy of raids giving the same rewards as regular raids (or even anywhere close to them) would somehow save the content for raiders. It wouldn't. At this point you're scrapping it anyways.

I said nothing about the same rewards.

Then you've answered out-of-context to my post you've quoted, because what I answered to was this:"

As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards.

"

I think that's something I said in this thread mutliple times including the latest posts, I thought my point is pretty clear by now. The very post you answered to included:

Easy mode in the long run doesn't do anything for raids and if someone wants an introductory/training mode for it (if we pretend the between-the-boss content isn't pretty much just that), then there should probably be no rewards so there's an actual reason to move up into regular raiding content. Stop pretending you want "easy/story mode" to help the regular raids. You don't

So if you don't have a problem with minimal/no rewards, then I'm not sure what was the point of your answer at all and why you think I needed the explaination you gave me in your response about content popularity and helping current raids when I keep saying that the players would need a reason (like, you know, the rewards) to move to actual raiding at currently available level for that idea to even be relevant. Otherwise, as I wrote in last post, you're just scrapping raids anyways and introduce second story mode that seems to be pretty pointless.

You quoted me but I am not the one who said, "As long as you wouldn't listen to the voices saying that easymode should have no/minimal rewards."

[battledrone.8315]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

Tbh, anyone who says LFRaiders are not real raiders deserves their opinion to be dismissed.LFR

is

raiding, even if it is on the lowest niveau. Therefore, the people in there

are

raiders.

After all, raiding is defined by its game mode,

not

by the difficulty scale.

if they were,, they would be raiding without easy mode . and the manhours would be wasted. and most casuals only do raids because of the shinies.if anet truly makes them worth while, then a portion of the REAL raider are just gonna farm the easy mode instead too.

[Fueki.4753]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

Tbh, anyone who says LFRaiders are not real raiders deserves their opinion to be dismissed.LFR

is

raiding, even if it is on the lowest niveau. Therefore, the people in there

are

raiders.

After all, raiding is defined by its game mode,

not

by the difficulty scale.

if they were,, they would be raiding without easy mode . and the manhours would be wasted. and most casuals only do raids because of the shinies.if anet truly makes them worth while, then a portion of the REAL raider are just gonna farm the easy mode instead too.

I don't care for rewards. I just want to witness the stories told inside.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:it will only become like wow, the LFRs arent REAL raiders, and most will never become one either. those resources would be better spend on some actualcasual content. they should never had made raids in the first place.

Tbh, anyone who says LFRaiders are not real raiders deserves their opinion to be dismissed.LFR

is

raiding, even if it is on the lowest niveau. Therefore, the people in there

are

raiders.

After all, raiding is defined by its game mode,

not

by the difficulty scale.

if they were,, they would be raiding without easy mode . and the manhours would be wasted. and most casuals only do raids because of the shinies.if anet truly makes them worth while, then a portion of the REAL raider are just gonna farm the easy mode instead too.

I don't care for rewards. I just want to witness the stories told inside.

And how many times would you go to do this? Said regardless mode just for story.

[Darkblade.7634]

Im against an easy mode for raids since i doubt that it will help raids in the long run.It wont work as a sort of "training" for the normal mode, since it would have to be dumbed down so much for your casual pve-player, that it wont have much similarities with the normal raids.Since mechanics like Instakills and stuff like that would be removed anyway you would have a meta-build in a few hours to days which would dumb down the fight even more by ignoring any mechanics and transform it into not much more then world/story-bosses.Anyone who really wants to get into raids nowadays has a ton of options to do it since there are a lot of helpful raiders and even whole raidguilds you can join to train and get into the raids.Obviously they expect you to not just demand to get into experienced groups and get carried but instead to be proactive, read guides, get the equipment and learn the rotation and show that you really want to learn the content instead of having your eyes on the rewards only.I firsthand got the experience by getting into raids and fractal CM´s starting somewhere around April/May this year and roughly half a year later clearing fractal CM´s daily, basicly fullclearing raids weekly and did my first Raid CM last weekend with more coming soon.Basicly the thing with most people wanting an easy mode is, that they arent really interested in the content itself.The thing about raids they want isnt the raids and the difficult content itself but the rewards and everything around them.If they took away the legendaries from raids im pretty sure 90%+ of the people advocating for easy mode would suddenly stop caring about the topic raids at all.And actually after seeing raids and getting into them i personally would prefer to not get any more raids and keep the community somewhat only players with a sort of raid mentality. If raids die out slowly then its okay for me and imo better then dragging it out by something like a easy mode. Imo if i look at gw1 and how active the speedclear-community is there even nowadays i think that probably no matter how old the raids get you might always have a small community doing them just because they like the content.The only way i would support an easy mode is if anet put a massive focus on raids and basicly make gw2 to a raid-centric game with raid-releases like wow and additional harder difficulties with epic unique rewards.Which wont happen ever, since it doesnt fit to the general idea and playerbase of gw2.

And regarding rewards:If there should ever be an easy mode raid it obviously shouldnt give the unique raid rewards because higher difficult content should always give better and in a case like gw2 this means unique rewards since there is no statwise better gear as reward like in most other mmos.