thank you arenanet for the glorious new pvp season, i drew you a picture as a thanks

[UN Owen.2794]

loving the double scourge condi reve meta, 3v3 is so fun :) B) <3 :3 :p ;) =) l

[Starbreaker.6507]

I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

[Disney.7826]

@Starbreaker.6507 said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

Its not about bots, but every premade is running scourge

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random ass obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

[Starbreaker.6507]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

As much as I love the mode over normal conquest, I can see why it would be so much more attractive to botters.

The reward chests may not be as much as 5s, but since the games are so much shorter they can still crank out an okay money per hour ratio.

[georgessj.4198]

@Starbreaker.6507 said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

And yet just today some 'weirdly good will folks' were telling me how exaggerated bots numbers are :D :D :D

[Disney.7826]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

No one wintrades in 3v3, also no one wintrades with bots and oh also no one wintrades in silver.

[Khalisto.5780]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

lol, this is next level exploit, almost hard to believe. But pvp is so crowded with bots that you could simply exploit queuing up as 3 necros to mirror a necro (most likely a scourge bot) in their team like a suggested in my post

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

lol, this is next level exploit, almost hard to believe. But pvp is so crowded with bots that you could simply exploit queuing up as 3 necros to mirror a necro (most likely a scourge bot) in their team like a suggested in my post

Yup, but don't try it solo queue or all you get is vs 3 man premades and then the bots are on YOUR team.

My rating is currently 1261 due to it. Literally by far the worst rating I have ever had in any season. I've never even had decay past this point.

Avoid solo queue 3v3. It is impossible to win solo queue with this bot problem. Words to the wise.

[Leonidrex.5649]

its almost as if a spec that is a tank, support and dps rolled into one is a bad concept.and their main weakness ( lack of mobility ) is fucking irrelevant in a closed cage mode that 3v3 is.Who would have thought ?It gets better, how about let that tank,support,dps hit through fucking walls and make a cage with bugged los, bugged no port zones and stupid ass stairs/pillars to run around while hitting you with aoe, sounds like a good gamemode to me.Make it a perma addition.I can see only positives, let bots and bunker turds duke it out in pepega 3v3 arena and leave 5v5 to normal people lul

[Starbreaker.6507]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:its almost as if a spec that is a tank, support and dps rolled into one is a bad concept.and their main weakness ( lack of mobility ) is kitten irrelevant in a closed cage mode that 3v3 is.Who would have thought ?It gets better, how about let that tank,support,dps hit through kitten walls and make a cage with bugged los, bugged no port zones and stupid kitten stairs/pillars to run around while hitting you with aoe, sounds like a good gamemode to me.Make it a perma addition.I can see only positives, let bots and bunker turds duke it out in pepega 3v3 arena and leave 5v5 to normal people lul

Well I feel that's an issue with the game as a whole with the no "holy trinity" that you see in traditional MMOs.

I think due to that has been a big reason why balance (or lack thereof) has been very tough to do in this game.

[medivh.4725]

To be fair some of the old PVP maps are quite fun as well

[KrHome.1920]

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:Well I feel that's an issue with the game as a whole with the no "holy trinity" that you see in traditional MMOs.

I think due to that has been a big reason why balance (or lack thereof) has been very tough to do in this game.No. The addition of support specs is the whole reason why we have this mess. It started with druid. 2015 this spec caused a ton of balancing issues and we have then seen the same with tempest, firebrand, scourge, scrapper...

In the core game when every class had to build for its own safety, the concept of no-holy-trinity worked fine (ele had a bit of support, but that was a joke compared what the expac support specs can do).

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:Well I feel that's an issue with the game as a whole with the no "holy trinity" that you see in traditional MMOs.

I think due to that has been a big reason why balance (or lack thereof) has been very tough to do in this game.No. The addition of support specs is the whole reason why we have this mess. It started with druid. 2015 this spec caused a ton of balancing issues and we have then seen the same with tempest, firebrand, scourge, scrapper...

In the core game when every class had to build for its own safety, the concept of no-holy-trinity worked fine (ele had a bit of support, but that was a joke compared what the expac support specs can do).

I disagree. Support works in other games, for a set of reasons that I'm not going to fully explain here, but Support existed in gw1, and frankly balance was pretty good.

Now yes, ALL teams were almost always required to have support, in particular the monk class. But even though monk was the most popular, it didn't exclude other support builds like Ritualist supports, Dervish Supports, and Elementalist supports...my favorite build was an Emo-Bonder, which unfortunatly didn't work in SPVP because they "balanced" it to not be able to work there, but there were off-shoot healer Ele builds that functioned in a some-what similar fashion.

Anyway the point is that i do not think the addition of support specs were remotely the cause of the issues in balance, mostly because it's an issue exclusive to GW2 only and not other games.

[Raizel.1839]

Where is the picture?

[KrHome.1920]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:Well I feel that's an issue with the game as a whole with the no "holy trinity" that you see in traditional MMOs.

I think due to that has been a big reason why balance (or lack thereof) has been very tough to do in this game.No. The addition of support specs is the whole reason why we have this mess. It started with druid. 2015 this spec caused a ton of balancing issues and we have then seen the same with tempest, firebrand, scourge, scrapper...

In the core game when every class had to build for its own safety, the concept of no-holy-trinity worked fine (ele had a bit of support, but that was a joke compared what the expac support specs can do).

I disagree. Support works in other games, for a set of reasons that I'm not going to fully explain here, but Support existed in gw1, and frankly balance was pretty good.Other games are designed differently than GW2. That's the whole point here. It does not work because of the specific design of GW2.

Each GW2 class has its own sustain mechanic. You can not expect to come close to a serious balance when you put a dedicated healer on top of that, because that healer will not be able to compensate the weaknesses of the different classes in the same way.

When you design your game for a holy trinity from the ground up, then you don't give your dps class any sustain, because that's the healer's job. And this strict splitting is the reason why it works in other games.

Starting to add support specs was - to me - the biggest mistake ANet did in game design. The overal balancing never recovered from that.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:Well I feel that's an issue with the game as a whole with the no "holy trinity" that you see in traditional MMOs.

I think due to that has been a big reason why balance (or lack thereof) has been very tough to do in this game.No. The addition of support specs is the whole reason why we have this mess. It started with druid. 2015 this spec caused a ton of balancing issues and we have then seen the same with tempest, firebrand, scourge, scrapper...

In the core game when every class had to build for its own safety, the concept of no-holy-trinity worked fine (ele had a bit of support, but that was a joke compared what the expac support specs can do).

I disagree. Support works in other games, for a set of reasons that I'm not going to fully explain here, but Support existed in gw1, and frankly balance was pretty good.

Now yes, ALL teams were almost always required to have support, in particular the monk class. But even though monk was the most popular, it didn't exclude other support builds like Ritualist supports, Dervish Supports, and Elementalist supports...my favorite build was an Emo-Bonder, which unfortunatly didn't work in SPVP because they "balanced" it to not be able to work there, but there were off-shoot healer Ele builds that functioned in a some-what similar fashion.

Anyway the point is that i do not think the addition of support specs were remotely the cause of the issues in balance, mostly because it's an issue exclusive to GW2 only and not other games.

Support and bunkers work in other games cuz there's always a few high dps burst classes that can at risk burst them down so the matches arnt slogs but in gw2 the community gets them all nerfed hammered cuz for some reason gw2 players can't handle burst specs yet also constantly complain when the meta is to tanky lol.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"KrHome.1920" said:And this strict splitting is the reason why it works in other games.

Except gw1 is a good example where there was no "strict splitting" anything. We have a valid game to use an example of how support isn't itself a problem.

[Arheundel.6451]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:Well I feel that's an issue with the game as a whole with the no "holy trinity" that you see in traditional MMOs.

I think due to that has been a big reason why balance (or lack thereof) has been very tough to do in this game.No. The addition of support specs is the whole reason why we have this mess. It started with druid. 2015 this spec caused a ton of balancing issues and we have then seen the same with tempest, firebrand, scourge, scrapper...

In the core game when every class had to build for its own safety, the concept of no-holy-trinity worked fine (ele had a bit of support, but that was a joke compared what the expac support specs can do).

I disagree. Support works in other games, for a set of reasons that I'm not going to fully explain here, but Support existed in gw1, and frankly balance was pretty good.

Now yes, ALL teams were almost always required to have support, in particular the monk class. But even though monk was the most popular, it didn't exclude other support builds like Ritualist supports, Dervish Supports, and Elementalist supports...my favorite build was an Emo-Bonder, which unfortunatly didn't work in SPVP because they "balanced" it to not be able to work there, but there were off-shoot healer Ele builds that functioned in a some-what similar fashion.

Anyway the point is that i do not think the addition of support specs were remotely the cause of the issues in balance, mostly because it's an issue exclusive to GW2 only and not other games.

Adding support elites to GW2 was an absurd decision hands down..when you decide to design your game around no holy trinity, you go and provide self-sustain tools if you then add team support options to these self-sustain tool you end up with a broken mess of a game.

Elites like scrapper-tempest-firebrand should have never seen the light of the day....especially firebrand, why go and add support elite to a profession already designed to be the most supportish of them all?

Playing PvP or WvW right now is an absolute nightmare, these boonball take no dmg and just steamroll everything in sight...they even added aoe cap on skills making stacking that much more easier and useful.....one stupid decision after the other

[razaelll.8324]

@georgessj.4198 said:

@Starbreaker.6507 said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

And yet just today some 'weirdly good will folks' were telling me how exaggerated bots numbers are :D :D :D

This is not good joke and you are not correct. I didnt tell you how exaggerated the bot numbers are. I told you that i FEEL like it is exaggerated, which means that i might be wrong and i told you also that neither i or you can be 100 % accurate on the numbers so because of that the coverastion wont lead to any meaningfull end since neither i can prove you wrong ,neither you can. So please dont make fun of people and shift their words in different topics. Thank you in advance!

I also said that there are obvious bots and it is sad that anet do not do anything about them.

[Cynz.9437]

@Starbreaker.6507 said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

Well for my part, i avoid 2v2 and 3v3 because as thief i am basically not allowed (at least based on anet balancing decision) to participate in those game modes (if i want to win any matches, that is). I would assume i am not the only one avoiding that necro fiesta so yeah you gonna see more bots.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:Adding support elites to GW2 was an absurd decision hands down..when you decide to design your game around no holy trinity, you go and provide self-sustain tools if you then add team support options to these self-sustain tool you end up with a broken mess of a game.

Elites like scrapper-tempest-firebrand should have never seen the light of the day....especially firebrand, why go and add support elite to a profession already designed to be the most supportish of them all?

Playing PvP or WvW right now is an absolute nightmare, these boonball take no dmg and just steamroll everything in sight...they even added aoe cap on skills making stacking that much more easier and useful.....one stupid decision after the other

I fully agree about the AOE cap being bad design . But I standby my statement, that support is in itself not the issue, with the reasoning that support works in Gw1, which is in design not much different then gw2.

Gw1 had no holy trinity. There were just builds...and some builds that players made were healing builds. It is the natural progression of people that seek alternative playstyles and to further cooperative and competitive specialization.

We even had similar "boon-ball" behavior team compositions in gw1, One example being "Eleball" which was a team composition of 8 bunker ele's that used wards and signature Obsidian Flame spike.

The major differences between the two games is not that "support" is an inherently bad thing, but rather how much counter-play there was to defeat other things. Eleball had weaknesses that players could exploit :

A ) It was immobile. It couldn't move around because it relied on wards in order to work.B ) There is no target cap in gw1, thus, focusing a lot of AOE attacks would pressure them and eventually kill them.

Wards couldn't be stripped...but because they were immobile fields it limited what they could actually do in a structured environment. The counter-play was inherent in the skill and in addition people brought to counter it...and I think that's an important distinction between the differences of builds in gw1 and builds in gw2. Many builds in gw2, bunker and support builds included, simply don't have counter play built into the skills nor in opposition...and you get min-max behavior which is to just stack healing, and stack damage and "do it all" and that's basically what druid was...and that was basically the entire meta post HOT...it did everything...high damage, high sustain, highly mobile... counter play didn't exist.

[georgessj.4198]

@razaelll.8324 said:

@georgessj.4198 said:

@Starbreaker.6507 said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

And yet just today some 'weirdly good will folks' were telling me how exaggerated bots numbers are :D :D :D

This is not good joke and you are not correct. I didnt tell you how exaggerated the bot numbers are. I told you that i FEEL like it is exaggerated, which means that i might be wrong and i told you also that neither i or you can be 100 % accurate on the numbers so because of that the coverastion wont lead to any meaningfull end since neither i can prove you wrong ,neither you can. So please dont make fun of people and shift their words in different topics. Thank you in advance!

I also said that there are obvious bots and it is sad that anet do not do anything about them.

You were not the only one that day and in case you havent noticed there are bot users in the forum defending their infinite gold source by saying things like 'i never met a bot' or 'stop calling unskill people bots'. Cant blame them though the things i spend 20-40 euros on the gem store they get by botting in a couple of days-weeks

[Ghos.1326]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:its almost as if a spec that is a tank, support and dps rolled into one is a bad concept.and their main weakness ( lack of mobility ) is kitten irrelevant in a closed cage mode that 3v3 is.Who would have thought ?It gets better, how about let that tank,support,dps hit through kitten walls and make a cage with bugged los, bugged no port zones and stupid kitten stairs/pillars to run around while hitting you with aoe, sounds like a good gamemode to me.Make it a perma addition.I can see only positives, let bots and bunker turds duke it out in pepega 3v3 arena and leave 5v5 to normal people lul

Yep exactly. I've been screaming about give and take for a long time, and yet stuff like this exists still and it takes months to address these kinds of things. months for 1-2 changes that may/may not be what's causing the issues.

it's why i've taken a small break from gw2. i've been playing some wow and eso, and got back into music creation. my sanity has never been better lol.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

whether you think supports in this game is good or not, anet said they weren't going to add support specs. they went back on their word for no reason, destroyed combo field play which was one of the games best mechanics, and doomed us all to boonball zergs and bunkers with too many heals that can 1v2 or in some cases 1v3.