Roaming, How Do We Fix It?

[XenesisII.1540]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Yes roaming is crazy now so let's gut the best roamers.

Sounds like a plan.

mesmer main spottedstill tho, nerf teef

! i was a necro main

Haha "former" mesmer main.Teef and scourge these days. :)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Yes roaming is crazy now so let's gut the best roamers.

Sounds like a plan.

mesmer main spottedstill tho, nerf teef

! i was a necro main

Haha "former" mesmer main.Teef and scourge these days. :)

I bet u play teef and scourge lol,I kno if I played a class not good at anything but roaming I'd definitely want roaming classes gutted that way my class can be sub optimal in everything within the mode,only a silly person wouldn't want that. On the plus side that leaves zerging and wvw would be far better off population wise if it only appeals to one crowd(zergers).Hopefully anet realizes all this soon lol.

[kash.9213]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class

barely

....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

eh boy, I'm not here to flex... so go on with ur autopromotion as much as u want.

For sure there is some good counter builds vs thieves and rangers but then its not necessary good builds to ur playstyle.

Damage and sustain are nice but I'll not sacrifice my mobility just to say "It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers". I deal with them by running away! ::pensive:

This guy is a like the spirit animal of the devs shake down thieves for more Initiative every update.

Every update or every 8 years?

There's like 4 or 5 changes in just the last couple of years.

[Clownmug.8357]

@kash.9213 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class

barely

....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

eh boy, I'm not here to flex... so go on with ur autopromotion as much as u want.

For sure there is some good counter builds vs thieves and rangers but then its not necessary good builds to ur playstyle.

Damage and sustain are nice but I'll not sacrifice my mobility just to say "It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers". I deal with them by running away! ::pensive:

This guy is a like the spirit animal of the devs shake down thieves for more Initiative every update.

Every update or every 8 years?

There's like 4 or 5 changes in just the last couple of years.

Ok, we'll say every couple of years then.

[Justine.6351]

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

Well remove 2 trinkets from your build and try fight/roam

Been there done that. Every time I've come back from vacation and my selector gear has been reset by Anet and I realize a couple hours later when I switch a map that I am missing stats on gear. Blaming lost fights on exotic vs ascended, kill stacking sigils, food or claim buffs is a classic noob thing to do.

[kash.9213]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

Well remove 2 trinkets from your build and try fight/roam

Been there done that. Every time I've come back from vacation and my selector gear has been reset by Anet and I realize a couple hours later when I switch a map that I am missing stats on gear. Blaming lost fights on exotic vs ascended, kill stacking sigils, food or claim buffs is a classic noob thing to do.

If you want to get ongoing fights for more than a few minutes burst then you're likely going to run around south of hills a lot where there aren't many claims or everything is kept paper to easily knock out a claim. That's especially true if you know your stat thresholds and what you can or can't pull off regarding those. You might be right ultimately that those things don't decide a fight but that might only be true for someone who's not concerned about their stat spread.

I think that's where a lot of complaints on the thief forum come from when newer thief go almost full glass and wonder why they're getting lit up but still not killing anything. That stat spread counts when you know how much you can bring down power for example to where it's passable as long as your other stats allowed you to stay in a fight and at least one of them, like crit chance, are pressuring and ferrying in secondary mods like life steal or whatever. I might be wrong about all that and I know it's entirely anecdotal but I definitely feel the difference myself.

I think claim buffs should be gone or only work standing on actual claimed walls.

[Justine.6351]

@kash.9213 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

Well remove 2 trinkets from your build and try fight/roam

Been there done that. Every time I've come back from vacation and my selector gear has been reset by Anet and I realize a couple hours later when I switch a map that I am missing stats on gear. Blaming lost fights on exotic vs ascended, kill stacking sigils, food or claim buffs is a classic noob thing to do.

If you want to get ongoing fights for more than a few minutes burst then you're likely going to run around south of hills a lot where there aren't many claims or everything is kept paper to easily knock out a claim. That's especially true if you know your stat thresholds and what you can or can't pull off regarding those. You might be right ultimately that those things don't decide a fight but that might only be true for someone who's not concerned about their stat spread.

I think that's where a lot of complaints on the thief forum come from when newer thief go almost full glass and wonder why they're getting lit up but still not killing anything. That stat spread counts when you know how much you can bring down power for example to where it's passable as long as your other stats allowed you to stay in a fight and at least one of them, like crit chance, are pressuring and ferrying in secondary mods like life steal or whatever. I might be wrong about all that and I know it's entirely anecdotal but I definitely feel the difference myself.

I think claim buffs should be gone or only work standing on actual claimed walls.

Crit chance is indeed huge, especially presence of the keep crit chance %.I could get behind them trimming the radius of guild claims to a tighter area around objectives. Its kind of silly having North camp claim making you king of the north.But I have been behind trimming all territories down to just the objectives and leaving the open areas as free for all (huge for gliding) for a long long time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/fd/Alpine_Borderlands_Zones.jpg

[kash.9213]

@Justine.6351 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

Well remove 2 trinkets from your build and try fight/roam

Been there done that. Every time I've come back from vacation and my selector gear has been reset by Anet and I realize a couple hours later when I switch a map that I am missing stats on gear. Blaming lost fights on exotic vs ascended, kill stacking sigils, food or claim buffs is a classic noob thing to do.

If you want to get ongoing fights for more than a few minutes burst then you're likely going to run around south of hills a lot where there aren't many claims or everything is kept paper to easily knock out a claim. That's especially true if you know your stat thresholds and what you can or can't pull off regarding those. You might be right ultimately that those things don't decide a fight but that might only be true for someone who's not concerned about their stat spread.

I think that's where a lot of complaints on the thief forum come from when newer thief go almost full glass and wonder why they're getting lit up but still not killing anything. That stat spread counts when you know how much you can bring down power for example to where it's passable as long as your other stats allowed you to stay in a fight and at least one of them, like crit chance, are pressuring and ferrying in secondary mods like life steal or whatever. I might be wrong about all that and I know it's entirely anecdotal but I definitely feel the difference myself.

I think claim buffs should be gone or only work standing on actual claimed walls.

Crit chance is indeed huge, especially presence of the keep crit chance %.I could get behind them trimming the radius of guild claims to a tighter area around objectives. Its kind of silly having North camp claim making you king of the north.But I have been behind

trimming all territories down to just the objectives and leaving the open areas as free for all

(huge for gliding) for a long long time.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/fd/Alpine_Borderlands_Zones.jpg

I like that idea, it still gives people a place to dip to and still provides a good siege fight. Even if claim buffs were taken out I still think there needs to be something to buff defenders at least on the walls.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

Plenty of drama and bias on this forum ,

do you really think that your class whatever it is goes unnoticed?

Want to talk about "easy to play?"

Guardian?

I can't bother to constantly link videos to prove fallacies in arguments

You use that term, but it does not mean what you think it means. If you wanted to say that appeal to authority is fallacious, then it wouldn't make sense to link your own videos where you do the same stuff. That's just appealing to a different authority. If your argument breaks down to "You're not extra-special like I am to make these claims," then it isn't going to go anywhere. They disagree, and you'll never resolve this contradiction because their anecdotes will always outweigh yours.

[LetoII.3782]

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

Well remove 2 trinkets from your build and try fight/roam

I think you may be overestimating the amount of times you lose/win over 10%It's an easy scapegoat, no more

[moutzaheadin.4029]

Bad thief’s are easy to kill, once you face a better then avg dp/sa daggorstrom copypasta built thief it’s ez pz god mode cheese.

[Yasai.3549]

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

[bigo.9037]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

[kash.9213]

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke ass deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

[RlyOsim.2497]

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

Two teef will kill also any single player, even if that fight begins with one of them downstate.

[bigo.9037]

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

you know someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about when being derogatory towards one of the best all time, since 2012 roaming classes. if you think they’re just thieves i’m guessing you have went solo roaming so little you only ever met 5 in combat lol. any class can be awful if the player is awful. you are for some reason assuming the thief players are significantly worse than you are, which is the dumbest thing to do when talking about balance.

i think you just lack experience tbh.

[kash.9213]

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

you know someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about when being derogatory towards one of the best all time, since 2012 roaming classes. if you think they’re just thieves i’m guessing you have went solo roaming so little you only ever met 5 in combat lol. any class can be awful if the player is awful. you are for some reason assuming the thief players are significantly worse than you are, which is the dumbest thing to do when talking about balance.

i think you just lack experience tbh.

I always assume everyone is better than me, that's why I build to get away from stuff. If they're all on their mount that guy has two dodges and if those other two jump off to blow cooldowns they'll probably get dodged again and even if they kill the mount that guy should have some stuff. If they don't isn't what happened to them exactly what they should have expected in that area? What's out of place?

[bigo.9037]

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

you know someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about when being derogatory towards one of the best all time, since 2012 roaming classes. if you think they’re just thieves i’m guessing you have went solo roaming so little you only ever met 5 in combat lol. any class can be awful if the player is awful. you are for some reason assuming the thief players are significantly worse than you are, which is the dumbest thing to do when talking about balance.

i think you just lack experience tbh.

I always assume everyone is better than me, that's why I build to get away from stuff. If they're all on their mount that guy has two dodges and if those other two jump off to blow cooldowns they'll probably get dodged again and even if they kill the mount that guy should have some stuff. If they don't isn't what happened to them exactly what they should have expected in that area? What's out of place?

most thieves you see in wvw play DD and have 3 dodges with numerous ways to replenish their endurance..

i’m specifically referring to the fact that you seem to think killing thief is just really ez when in reality this just comes down to each players skill level. bad thief die fast. bad ranger die fast. bad necro die fast bad warrior die fast. bad DH d- well nvm the last one but you get point i’m assuming? any class can be nuked to down in a second but only if they are bad enough to eat your burst.

thief can literally outpace you on mount for a solid 5-7 seconds , so even if 1 doesn’t manage to get you off mount, if there’s 2 or 3 of them you are 100% dead if they are in the mood to kill you.

[kash.9213]

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

you know someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about when being derogatory towards one of the best all time, since 2012 roaming classes. if you think they’re just thieves i’m guessing you have went solo roaming so little you only ever met 5 in combat lol. any class can be awful if the player is awful. you are for some reason assuming the thief players are significantly worse than you are, which is the dumbest thing to do when talking about balance.

i think you just lack experience tbh.

I always assume everyone is better than me, that's why I build to get away from stuff. If they're all on their mount that guy has two dodges and if those other two jump off to blow cooldowns they'll probably get dodged again and even if they kill the mount that guy should have some stuff. If they don't isn't what happened to them exactly what they should have expected in that area? What's out of place?

most thieves you see in wvw play DD and have 3 dodges with numerous ways to replenish their endurance..

i’m specifically referring to the fact that you seem to think killing thief is just really ez when in reality this just comes down to each players skill level. bad thief die fast. bad ranger die fast. bad necro die fast bad warrior die fast. bad DH d- well nvm the last one but you get point i’m assuming? any class can be nuked to down in a second but only if they are bad enough to eat your burst.

thief can literally outpace you on mount for a solid 5-7 seconds , so even if 1 doesn’t manage to get you off mount, if there’s 2 or 3 of them you are 100% dead if they are in the mood to kill you.

2 or 3 of anyone determined to kill you are going to kill you. You're saying anything can happen. That's always the case. If you're running out in your matchup where there are going to to be 2 or 3 thieves who aren't going to sleep on you running through and they get you, that sounds pretty fair. You still have a good chance to hurt one or get away if you build for it. I get skills and utilities compete for slots but everyone has to make those decisions. There are build templates.

[Shroud.2307]

@bigo.9037 said:bad thief die fast. bad ranger die fast. bad necro die fast bad warrior die fast. bad DH d- well nvm the last one but you get point i’m assuming?

::Nods::

.

[bigo.9037]

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

you know someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about when being derogatory towards one of the best all time, since 2012 roaming classes. if you think they’re just thieves i’m guessing you have went solo roaming so little you only ever met 5 in combat lol. any class can be awful if the player is awful. you are for some reason assuming the thief players are significantly worse than you are, which is the dumbest thing to do when talking about balance.

i think you just lack experience tbh.

I always assume everyone is better than me, that's why I build to get away from stuff. If they're all on their mount that guy has two dodges and if those other two jump off to blow cooldowns they'll probably get dodged again and even if they kill the mount that guy should have some stuff. If they don't isn't what happened to them exactly what they should have expected in that area? What's out of place?

most thieves you see in wvw play DD and have 3 dodges with numerous ways to replenish their endurance..

i’m specifically referring to the fact that you seem to think killing thief is just really ez when in reality this just comes down to each players skill level. bad thief die fast. bad ranger die fast. bad necro die fast bad warrior die fast. bad DH d- well nvm the last one but you get point i’m assuming? any class can be nuked to down in a second but only if they are bad enough to eat your burst.

thief can literally outpace you on mount for a solid 5-7 seconds , so even if 1 doesn’t manage to get you off mount, if there’s 2 or 3 of them you are 100% dead if they are in the mood to kill you.

2 or 3 of anyone determined to kill you are going to kill you. You're saying anything can happen. That's always the case. If you're running out in your matchup where there are going to to be 2 or 3 thieves who aren't going to sleep on you running through and they get you, that sounds pretty fair. You still have a good chance to hurt one or get away if you build for it. I get skills and utilities compete for slots but everyone has to make those decisions. There are build templates.

yea but the difference is if i get chased by a warrior and ele or soulbeast without bird, necro, engi, heck even revenant cus assassins legend is vulnerable to cc, you can at least get away if you have reasonable mobility but nothing outpaces a DP dash DD.

[kash.9213]

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

Warclaws were the opposite of ganking.They were introduced in a state where :

1. 2nd Hp bar to protect from Perma Stealth 1 shots
2. Insane defender bonus movement speed

These points were why the spear exists, to allow low mobility defenders to catchup to the likes of Thieves.

If we don't have Warclaws, we won't even have a chance to roam and get away from XXXABC123 Thief groups that gank solo players.

At least with Warclaw, if yu LoS the spears or Evade them, yu have a chance to live.

do you not get chased often? if 2 thieves chase you even on mount you’re still dead cus thief mobility + mount is too fast.

They're only thieves, you can probably drop one of them. What does class mobility matter on a mount? If they blow their spear and then spend a bunch of Initiative or cooldowns catching up to you while you're still mounted then their broke kitten deserves to get killed in front of their friend. Unless they're bored and it's fun then I wish them the best.

you know someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about when being derogatory towards one of the best all time, since 2012 roaming classes. if you think they’re just thieves i’m guessing you have went solo roaming so little you only ever met 5 in combat lol. any class can be awful if the player is awful. you are for some reason assuming the thief players are significantly worse than you are, which is the dumbest thing to do when talking about balance.

i think you just lack experience tbh.

I always assume everyone is better than me, that's why I build to get away from stuff. If they're all on their mount that guy has two dodges and if those other two jump off to blow cooldowns they'll probably get dodged again and even if they kill the mount that guy should have some stuff. If they don't isn't what happened to them exactly what they should have expected in that area? What's out of place?

most thieves you see in wvw play DD and have 3 dodges with numerous ways to replenish their endurance..

i’m specifically referring to the fact that you seem to think killing thief is just really ez when in reality this just comes down to each players skill level. bad thief die fast. bad ranger die fast. bad necro die fast bad warrior die fast. bad DH d- well nvm the last one but you get point i’m assuming? any class can be nuked to down in a second but only if they are bad enough to eat your burst.

thief can literally outpace you on mount for a solid 5-7 seconds , so even if 1 doesn’t manage to get you off mount, if there’s 2 or 3 of them you are 100% dead if they are in the mood to kill you.

2 or 3 of anyone determined to kill you are going to kill you. You're saying anything can happen. That's always the case. If you're running out in your matchup where there are going to to be 2 or 3 thieves who aren't going to sleep on you running through and they get you, that sounds pretty fair. You still have a good chance to hurt one or get away if you build for it. I get skills and utilities compete for slots but everyone has to make those decisions. There are build templates.

yea but the difference is if i get chased by a warrior and ele or soulbeast without bird, necro, engi, heck even revenant cus assassins legend is vulnerable to cc, you can at least get away if you have reasonable mobility but nothing outpaces a DP dash DD.

And if you're a class that can't hang with those classes and builds in radius then it's fair if you can get away. Dash isn't fair, especially with D/P and with the mitigation that build can pad, even if d/p kit ever gets worked on Dash should still get some kind of change. I still don't think I'd worry about that build in that case as much as some others though If I'm worried about dying super fast before I can hit some cooldowns.

[avey.4201]

revert to before the big damage nerf, keep only the nerfs that prevent players from being invulnerable while dealing high burst or 1 shot damage.

[Yasai.3549]

@avey.4201 said:revert to before the big damage nerf, keep only the nerfs that prevent players from being invulnerable while dealing high burst or 1 shot damage.

More specifically, keep nerfs to skills that deal huge damage in one button press.

Stuff like :DJ, Death Strike, True shot, Backstab, Vault, Maul, Winter Bite, Arcing Slash and Divider, Killshot and Gunflame, Eviscerate etc.

Should also revert sustain nerfs to Warrior while nerfing strong passive sustain for builds that already have good active sustain like Herald

[Hadi.3167]

This how you fix the fu kcing game. It's been over a year and no Balance. Apparently CMC got fired though. So yea , more people need to be fired cause these people are incompetent.