Why dose anet hate the ele class? (Wvw chat)

[Downstate.4697]

Scrapper offers a lot in zerg play for group utility like superspeed and aoe stealth. Thats probably the only reason its better than tempest. Tempest has decent base healing and could help peel for your team with water overload and cc. Put them in the backline groups and throw a bit of damage and healing into their stats. Tempest is a good mid-line support with the flexibility to do damage and heal.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Dawdler.8521 said:Meanwhile in the real world of WvW, eles are more popular than ever in smallscale, they can carry other players with ease due to their AoE support, they are near immortal vs condi, they do absurd amounts of damage at equally absurd amounts of self sustain and they seem to be able to CC you about every 2s to the point I see them running full lockdown support builds just for another dps to kill while they keep chaining stuns.

But I guess we can rank them up there with the worst off classes together with the thief thats the worst duelist, guardians that cant survive anything, warriors that have no mobility and rangers that have no ranged damage.

Careful, your wvw bias is showing. This is mainly a support/sustain problem, not an ele problem, no ele build has everything you say here. The best you could do is a hybrid dps/support build that is mediocre at both. And in any case if you are fighting a smallscale group that has a tempest support, bring a guard support or some other stab sharing class and ignore all the cc.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Meanwhile in the real world of WvW, eles are more popular than ever in smallscale, they can carry other players with ease due to their AoE support, they are near immortal vs condi, they do absurd amounts of damage at equally absurd amounts of self sustain and they seem to be able to CC you about every 2s to the point I see them running full lockdown support builds just for another dps to kill while they keep chaining stuns.

But I guess we can rank them up there with the worst off classes together with the thief thats the worst duelist, guardians that cant survive anything, warriors that have no mobility and rangers that have no ranged damage.

Careful, your wvw bias is showing.And there is no ele bias here... but yeah i have a bias for wvw. Wasnt this thread about wvw?

[manu.7539]

I feel like eles are amongst the best balanced class. Imo a good balance should allow:

-to be tanky but then u get poor damage-to have high damage but then u get squishy-to have decent damage and decent sustainability

And thats how I feel with my ele. I must calibrate damage and sustain to be able to do what I want and to fit with my play style.

The problem is more into other classes having acces to so many gimmicks that they can afford to run builds with high damage while still being very sustainable.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@manu.7539 said:I feel like eles are amongst the best balanced class. Imo a good balance should allow:

-to be tanky but then u get poor damage-to have high damage but then u get squishy-to have decent damage and decent sustainability

And thats how I feel with my ele. I must calibrate damage and sustain to be able to do what I want and to fit with my play style.

The problem is more into other classes having acces to so many gimmicks that they can afford to run builds with high damage while still being very sustainable.

And this is the problem their class design promise them that they are very sustainable and ele class design promise that it does very high DPS but people didn't want to except this , this is why we have the last 2 years the hard sustain meta. For Ele this promise comes from one side that it is a mage class which have in all RPG games by tradition low HP/defense and high dps the other side the build comes from GW1 where it was designed by the player so. You must understand there you could exchange your HP for DPS what they build was a suicide nuke build in GW1. Arena.NET obviously oriented them self on it when designing it for Gw2.

Well you could let go of all 'promises' but this would make all classes even which mean they kinda washed away. Funny thing is so far I know GW1 was kinda like this but they could vastly modify their builds,. Arena.NET got rid of the system in GW2 'to get a better balance' I don't see that happening.

[Downstate.4697]

@manu.7539 said:I feel like eles are amongst the best balanced class. Imo a good balance should allow:

-to be tanky but then u get poor damage-to have high damage but then u get squishy-to have decent damage and decent sustainability

And thats how I feel with my ele. I must calibrate damage and sustain to be able to do what I want and to fit with my play style.

The problem is more into other classes having acces to so many gimmicks that they can afford to run builds with high damage while still being very sustainable.

Ele has 8k less hp in zerker amulet than a warrior. The damage an ele can do should be higher, but that is not the case. In wvw that is a loss of stats that could go towards dps. Ele doesnt have any ability that can offset that difference in effective health. Also, sustain is tied to certain traitlines causing a loss of dps in favor of staying alive.

[Jski.6180]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@"manu.7539" said:I feel like eles are amongst the best balanced class. Imo a good balance should allow:

-to be tanky but then u get poor damage-to have high damage but then u get squishy-to have decent damage and decent sustainability

And thats how I feel with my ele. I must calibrate damage and sustain to be able to do what I want and to fit with my play style.

The problem is more into other classes having acces to so many gimmicks that they can afford to run builds with high damage while still being very sustainable.

Ele has 8k less hp in zerker amulet than a warrior. The damage an ele can do should be higher, but that is not the case. In wvw that is a loss of stats that could go towards dps. Ele doesnt have any ability that can offset that difference in effective health. Also, sustain is tied to certain traitlines causing a loss of dps in favor of staying alive.

Its even worst then that as most of ele attks or its "dmg" hits are often the most easy to counter though reflection and blocks. Made even worst with ele lack of any counter def such as boon strip. That and the lack of more then 2 condi dmg types one being bleed the weakness condi dmg in the game.

These are just all examples of anet hateing the ele class but there still a missing why anet hates the class. There the pretend reason that ele can do every thing but so can every other class at this point. Why dose anet consistently go after ele effects for nerfs only and never give true buffs to the class?

[Kodama.6453]

@Jski.6180 said:These are just all examples of anet hateing the ele class but there still a missing why anet hates the class. There the pretend reason that ele can do every thing but so can every other class at this point. Why dose anet consistently go after ele effects for nerfs only and never give true buffs to the class?

You are missing the point. It is not the problem that elementalist can do anything. The problem is that elementalist does everything by default.

If other classes want to be jack of all trades, doing everything (condi damage, power damage, group healing, tankiness, CC), they need specific build layouts and have to pick specific weapons and utility skills for this.

This is not the case for elementalist. Literally every build you could possibly craft, no matter which weapons and utility skills you pick, will always do everything.It is impossible for an ele not to be versatile, while other classes have to actively build themselves to be versatile. Versatility is a strength, so there goes alot of elementalist's power budget.

[The Boz.2038]

They really messed up the skill selection with the weapons. They almost had a good idea with the "you can't swap weapons, you got elements", but then they messed it up with the skills.Every weapon combination in water provides area healing. There is no condition damage weapon set; just dance around between fire and earth, using weapons that either suck or not. Earth? Defense, CC, bleeds in every set. Air? Damage and single target CC in every set. Always. You can't design around it!Elements should have their identities, their niches, yeah sure, but every single weapon doesn't have to have all of them. It would have been perfectly acceptable if, say, scepter/focus water had no heals, but emphasized the chill/vulnerability side of the element more.

[Jski.6180]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:These are just all examples of anet hateing the ele class but there still a missing why anet hates the class. There the pretend reason that ele can do every thing but so can every other class at this point. Why dose anet consistently go after ele effects for nerfs only and never give true buffs to the class?

You are missing the point. It is not the problem that elementalist can do anything. The problem is that elementalist does everything

by default

.

If other classes want to be jack of all trades, doing everything (condi damage, power damage, group healing, tankiness, CC), they need specific build layouts and have to pick specific weapons and utility skills for this.

This is not the case for elementalist. Literally every build you could possibly craft, no matter which weapons and utility skills you pick, will

always do everything

.It is impossible for an ele not to be versatile, while other classes have to actively build themselves to be versatile. Versatility is a strength, so there goes alot of elementalist's power budget.

But all classes can do every thing by default that mostly done though wepon swap or kits i am not use why your ignoring a massive part of other classes that ele dose not have.

Ele as a class has the least versatility in effects then any other class in the game. Its missing most boons more condi and more effects then any other class in the game and its more locked into a combat type then any other class.

Added note: You would have to be in a massive amount of self denial if you do not think anet balances the game arond trait and builds but just balance arone what wepon skill then can use in a given moment.Anet balance arones far more then atuments ele can be in any given time and to call them a "jack of all trades" just because there wepon skills alone let them do most of every thing yet not call any other class as such because alone there weapons do not do every thing in that moment is fooling your self and trying to ignore a massive part of wvw and realty the game over all.

There is no class in gw2 that is not "jack of all trades" to balance ONE class in the game as if it is the only "jack of all trades" is a form of hate from anet for that class.

Make no question about it anet HATE ele they may not say it but there action shows they do.

[Kodama.6453]

@"The Boz.2038" said:They really messed up the skill selection with the weapons. They almost had a good idea with the "you can't swap weapons, you got elements", but then they messed it up with the skills.Every weapon combination in water provides area healing. There is no condition damage weapon set; just dance around between fire and earth, using weapons that either suck or not. Earth? Defense, CC, bleeds in every set. Air? Damage and single target CC in every set. Always. You can't design around it!Elements should have their identities, their niches, yeah sure, but every single weapon doesn't have to have all of them. It would have been perfectly acceptable if, say, scepter/focus water had no heals, but emphasized the chill/vulnerability side of the element more.

This guy gets it.

If it's impossible for a build to exclude some stuff (like area healing, CC, etc.), then you also shouldn't be allowed to exceed at any of your tasks. Why should you do comparable damage like a build that is completely dedicated to damage, while you also provide so much other stuff like group healing, CC?

This is the underlying problem of the elementalist. All weapons are doing this stuff you mention there, just with different flavour.

[RisenHowl.2419]

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

Can do the same on any professions.....a jigsaw of all the times ..you look cool, the main difference here...the reaper is against organized groups.....

[Jski.6180]

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

Sure its fine when your buffed from other classes and supported from other classes over all as well as the other team is getting cc by other classes. The thing about ele dmg is very basic it had no counter dmg reduction effects on it at all even the "fire" skills have very limited burning on them. You can push dmg on nearly any class if you are being supported at peak levels and its a very set classes who are need to be the support / cc.

Even the cc ele preforms are often not as good and become more of an liability in wvw such as chill becoming alacrity and roots become resistance even burning becomes block for the other team. So you need another class to "fix" your own effects as an ele player because ele lacks boon strip.

This dmg is all base off of being able to stay on the group and because your an ele you have the worst ability to do so (low hp / def skill effects) and rewarded greatly for having good positioning in a fight though fast moment skills (unless you have pock support who simply stays on you and you alone to buff you i do not see you ever getting all the support you need as an ele to do all the time montage video dmg).

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I don't want to lessen the role of a good DPS elem in the fight and in the victory; on contrary; I like videos of Solemn for exemple if you know him and I also play Staff weaver. But still, it should remain at its place : it's almost always the combination of perfect factors: good anticipation, good position, good timing, good teammates and buffs, good progress of your teammates, enemies stuck in stairs/corridor, already on the decline or wanking, or zerg/noobs, and luck: then you may weigh the scales with your 3-4 aoe.Then what happens when you "fail" your storm/meteorshower ? Luckily we still have ranged CC and soft cc. What happens 80% of fights ?Is be top dps, at a random moment because you hit 20 random players, really decisive ? a proof of usefulness ?Can Elem turn the tide of a battle with its own "pur" DPS when its allies struggle ?

How many times you cast (3 sec cast time, with flash/burning retreat) your shower or glyph and it's already too late they have moved; or your allies have moved and not suppoted your dps with their own, boon strip etc; or even your DPS is just kitten anyway ; 3k damage the meteor, 1k the lightning strike, ...This isn't crazy. Or even worse, the RNG of meteors avoids all enemies standing into the aoe. <3

Not all elems have the ability, the skill, to provoke these scenarios, and even them they flip the coin, cross fingers. Otherwise we'll see and we'll ask for more (good) elems and less Scourges, less Dh, heralds, etc.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

Sure its fine when your buffed from other classes and supported from other classes over all as well as the other team is getting cc by other classes. The thing about ele dmg is very basic it had no counter dmg reduction effects on it at all even the "fire" skills have very limited burning on them. You can push dmg on nearly any class if you are being supported at peak levels and its a very set classes who are need to be the support / cc.

Even the cc ele preforms are often not as good and become more of an liability in wvw such as chill becoming alacrity and roots become resistance even burning becomes block for the other team. So you need another class to "fix" your own effects as an ele player because ele lacks boon strip.

This dmg is all base off of being able to stay on the group and because your an ele you have the worst ability to do so (low hp / def skill effects) and rewarded greatly for having good positioning in a fight though fast moment skills (unless you have pock support who simply stays on you and you alone to buff you i do not see you ever getting all the support you need as an ele to do all the time montage video dmg).

the first clip i pull 30k dps and flatten their push with no one supporting me as far as boons/healing, the might's coming from food and eles provide their own fury with 66% uptime. It's an outlier, sure, most groups you probably won't get over 20k dps. But it's kinda silly to say you need full squad support to do that damage with video evidence to the contrary.

a large part of this is that it's a group effort, no one class is effective entirely on it's own. your role as a backline ele is to provide damage first and CC second, a role that the class is well equipped for. If anything they need to shave the damage off FGS

[Jski.6180]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

Sure its fine when your buffed from other classes and supported from other classes over all as well as the other team is getting cc by other classes. The thing about ele dmg is very basic it had no counter dmg reduction effects on it at all even the "fire" skills have very limited burning on them. You can push dmg on nearly any class if you are being supported at peak levels and its a very set classes who are need to be the support / cc.

Even the cc ele preforms are often not as good and become more of an liability in wvw such as chill becoming alacrity and roots become resistance even burning becomes block for the other team. So you need another class to "fix" your own effects as an ele player because ele lacks boon strip.

This dmg is all base off of being able to stay on the group and because your an ele you have the worst ability to do so (low hp / def skill effects) and rewarded greatly for having good positioning in a fight though fast moment skills (unless you have pock support who simply stays on you and you alone to buff you i do not see you ever getting all the support you need as an ele to do all the time montage video dmg).

the first clip i pull 30k dps and flatten their push with no one supporting me as far as boons/healing, the might's coming from food and eles provide their own fury with 66% uptime. It's an outlier, sure, most groups you probably won't get over 20k dps. But it's kinda silly to say you need full squad support to do that damage with video evidence to the contrary.

a large part of this is that it's a group effort, no one class is effective entirely on it's own. your role as a backline ele is to provide damage first and CC second, a role that the class is well equipped for. If anything they need to shave the damage off FGS

Video montages are not evidence they are click bates. Dps in wvw is a bit odd as a lot of "useful dmg" is done in spikes that can show low dps where high dps is often something over time. Keep in mind support is both the cc you have on the other players (or the lack of boons by boon strip or the lack of classes them self though hard cc) and the boons you have on your self.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

i think that part of the reason for the inferred hate, is the inference that Anet and the PvP community keep insisting that the Elementalist and all its new specs be melee oriented, just to be different from the norm in other games: Tempest overloads are all melee oriented, and Weaver sword weapon is certainly melee oriented.

Personally, i want a 1500 ranged longbow with good power damage all the way around (especially on all 4 auto-attacks), unblockable hate (if the attack is blocked, it applies conditions / CC, to be mostly class specific), some more conditions, and some more CC.

[Zeesh.7286]

Staff ele is amazing in proper zerg comps. I top dps meters every time with the rare exception of melee blob fights where Flamethrower scrapper can either match my dps or edge out a little bit but even that is 2/10 times in pure melee blobs in chokes where I either miss my rotation or miss a meteor. It's annoying but it is what it is. I honestly think flamethrower needs a nerf on its damage through adjustment in the traits where it's getting stupid stacks of might AND stab... If I'm ever not top dps in proper zergs it is because of my own mistakes. On that note here's a couple of points I have:

1) It is infinitely harder to play staff ele compared to any other dps class. Yea I'm guaranteed to top the meter now every fight but it took me ages to get to this level of skill. Most people never get here because it is frustrating at the start and they can make it in the top 3 easily playing DH now and if the weaver in their squad isn't competent enough they can top the meter easy peasy on even power scourge/rev while giving the party some kind of boon/benefit. Weaver gives nothing and demands all boons to run.2) The problem in terms of why weaver is hard is solely the Root while casting meteor. It kills everything fun about weaver and makes it much harder than any other class. This is my number one concern with staff as a whole. Anet needs to remove the root on meteor. Another small buff would be to remove the projectile status from staff dual attacks. They take forever to hit/cast and get reflected instantly.. whoever designed and decided to mark Plasma, Pyroclastic and Pressure blast as PROJECTILES instead of BLASTS was dumb as a rock.3) You don't need more than 2-3 weavers in a full comp of 50. Anymore is just losing out. It is much better to have more scourges/DH/Revs/spellbreaker in the comp. If you have more than 3 weavers you're doing it wrong and making it harder for your team. Meteor spike damage is amazing and combined with Glyph/Lavafont/Air 2 you can instantly down a bunch of people BUT ONLY IN A BUBBLE! You need boonrips and strips to make weaver damage count and hurt. On its own the damage is.. useless! I need scourge wells/chrono strips/spellbreaker bubbles to generate the downs or the enemy can just outsustain me even when I run berserkers instead of marauders. Protection and barrier is the number one enemy for us.

Point 3 is why the class is not meta as a DPS in zerg comps.

Final note: I think any tag worth his salt will add a COMPETENT staff weaver in their zerg team and give you the exact same treatment if not better as a meta damage dealer like rev/scourge. The thing is weavers are far and few. It is a dying profession sadly. Which is also a good thing and a bad thing. Bad because it means not a lot of players play it and as the old ones move on, it will fall more in popularity. Good because only the best play it so they outshine and make a mark. It is what it is fellas. Waiting for the expac to see if we stay around at all...

[Zeesh.7286]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

Sure its fine when your buffed from other classes and supported from other classes over all as well as the other team is getting cc by other classes. The thing about ele dmg is very basic it had no counter dmg reduction effects on it at all even the "fire" skills have very limited burning on them. You can push dmg on nearly any class if you are being supported at peak levels and its a very set classes who are need to be the support / cc.

Even the cc ele preforms are often not as good and become more of an liability in wvw such as chill becoming alacrity and roots become resistance even burning becomes block for the other team. So you need another class to "fix" your own effects as an ele player because ele lacks boon strip.

This dmg is all base off of being able to stay on the group and because your an ele you have the worst ability to do so (low hp / def skill effects) and rewarded greatly for having good positioning in a fight though fast moment skills (unless you have pock support who simply stays on you and you alone to buff you i do not see you ever getting all the support you need as an ele to do all the time montage video dmg).

the first clip i pull 30k dps and flatten their push with no one supporting me as far as boons/healing, the might's coming from food and eles provide their own fury with 66% uptime. It's an outlier, sure, most groups you probably won't get over 20k dps. But it's kinda silly to say you need full squad support to do that damage with video evidence to the contrary.

a large part of this is that it's a group effort, no one class is effective entirely on it's own. your role as a backline ele is to provide damage first and CC second, a role that the class is well equipped for. If anything they need to shave the damage off FGS

EXCUSE ME???? It has a 180 sec CD and isn't even instant and half the time you risk killing yourself while using it! Meanwhile a flamethrower engi is W keying the exact same damage as a my FGS autos if not more.. I agree with everything except this one bit which is downright annoying for me.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Jski.6180 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

ele damage seems fine?

the only thing stopping support tempest is support scrapper, both because it's better as a support than tempest and because it converts all that sweet frost aura into alacrity if your comp isn't built for mass condi application.

Sure its fine when your buffed from other classes and supported from other classes over all as well as the other team is getting cc by other classes. The thing about ele dmg is very basic it had no counter dmg reduction effects on it at all even the "fire" skills have very limited burning on them. You can push dmg on nearly any class if you are being supported at peak levels and its a very set classes who are need to be the support / cc.

Even the cc ele preforms are often not as good and become more of an liability in wvw such as chill becoming alacrity and roots become resistance even burning becomes block for the other team. So you need another class to "fix" your own effects as an ele player because ele lacks boon strip.

This dmg is all base off of being able to stay on the group and because your an ele you have the worst ability to do so (low hp / def skill effects) and rewarded greatly for having good positioning in a fight though fast moment skills (unless you have pock support who simply stays on you and you alone to buff you i do not see you ever getting all the support you need as an ele to do all the time montage video dmg).

the first clip i pull 30k dps and flatten their push with no one supporting me as far as boons/healing, the might's coming from food and eles provide their own fury with 66% uptime. It's an outlier, sure, most groups you probably won't get over 20k dps. But it's kinda silly to say you need full squad support to do that damage with video evidence to the contrary.

a large part of this is that it's a group effort, no one class is effective entirely on it's own. your role as a backline ele is to provide damage first and CC second, a role that the class is well equipped for. If anything they need to shave the damage off FGS

Video montages are not evidence they are click bates. Dps in wvw is a bit odd as a lot of "useful dmg" is done in spikes that can show low dps where high dps is often something over time. Keep in mind support is both the cc you have on the other players (or the lack of boons by boon strip or the lack of classes them self though hard cc) and the boons you have on your self.

fortunately arcdps tracks these things, keep in mind that it's open on the screen so you can gauge how much support the group is giving. If YOU can't get good damage on an ele, that is 100% due to a lack of skill with the class or lack of positioning knowledge.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYZlFw8YdMK2JO8KbtNA-zVRYBBBKGVcfDSzIISKUpAMdQCj9wrRDLbA-w

these clips were taken with this build, as you can see i'm not even using full zerkers gear. In fact, i'm not using any berserkers gear. when you can show me some clips of a non-ele in full marauder pulling 30k+ dps spikes i'll be happy to listen to you guys whine about how ele is underpowered.

and am I misunderstanding something or do the people in this thread feel that eles should be able to reliably down 20+ people completely solo? there's a lot of 'but you need group support!!1' from you all, but how's that different from literally any other class? I'm not running with a fully comped guild squad in comms for these clips lol

2) The problem in terms of why weaver is hard is solely the Root while casting meteor. It kills everything fun about weaver and makes it much harder than any other class. This is my number one concern with staff as a whole. Anet needs to remove the root on meteor.

use the staff 4 trick and/or lightning flash to position meteor shower correctly. the real reason staff ele is hard is managing retaliation

EXCUSE ME???? It has a 180 sec CD and isn't even instant and half the time you risk killing yourself while using it! Meanwhile a flamethrower engi is W keying the exact same damage as a my FGS autos if not more.. I agree with everything except this one bit which is downright annoying for me.

So once every three minutes you can flatten a zerg? i'm not sure why you're complaining, i'd kill to have FGS on literally every dps character.

make sure you're using it at the right time, just having it active increases your power by +260 so you want to make sure you're using it after MS so those strikes benefit from the increased stats. you shouldn't be reliant on your FGS autos, they should be used to finish downs or hit targets that you're sure don't have reflects up. The only things that matter on FGS are 3 and 5, maybe 4 if someone's off tag and you can reach them for a quick one shot.

don't waste FGS on a group that's still positioning and don't waste it on a group that's moving quickly in open field. Wait until you see them going for a group res, wait for them to regroup before/after a push, wait until you see them backpedaling during/after a range bomb, etc.

For those who think ele is too hard to learn, it's not. I found rev harder to learn by a fair bit.

i still have less than 100h played on ele. If you want to learn the class i'd highly recommend watching other people play it well to pick up when to use defensive cds, what a skill rotation looks like, how to bomb, and how to position. Solemn is great to watch on youtube, i know i picked up some stuff from him

[Zeesh.7286]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

and am I misunderstanding something or do the people in this thread feel that eles should be able to reliably down 20+ people completely solo? there's a lot of 'but you need group support!!1' from you all, but how's that different from literally any other class? I'm not running with a fully comped guild squad in comms for these clips lol

This I 100% agree with the numbers are absolutely fine.

This point however is equally applicable here:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

So once every three minutes you can flatten a zerg? i'm not sure why you're complaining, i'd kill to have FGS on literally every dps character.

I don't think FGS is overtuned and I will die on this hill. It takes a team effort to flatten a zerg and FGS has a 180 sec CD and requires precise timing/ proper use. Yea you can drop someone instantly BUT IF they don't have protection/aegis which a zerg will. Unles you have a team boonripping. The point about auto attacks was just to show how a conjure elite with 180sec CD isn't exactly a win button in terms of damage. It has only 2-3 good moves with a CD on them. Yea the power added while channeling a meteor is great but again, 180 sec CD!! You need to make an informed decision on when you use it. FGS is great as it is. I swear to God I will rampage if someone so much as touches it because someone cried in the forums upon getting hit with a 10k crit from Fiery whirl in a corner on EBG without protection/aegis on them. It's boon meta. No damage in the game right now is too damn high given the protection/barrier/block spam >__>

I disagree with the retal being the biggest issue. It's a subjective thing here. I usually run with tags and comms and gvgs. For me, Second biggest issue? Sure. It hurts us so much because more often than not we are away from the main team because of casting meteors. Our positioning is weird. If we were with the team at all times, the retal will get healed back immediately from the team. How do we we stay 100% with the team? If they remove the stupid root on casting meteors. Yea I can reposition myself with Lightning flash for a top up again but I'd much rather have the utility slot free to add in something else instead. Am I asking a lot? I dunno. But I'm not exactly asking for a damage buff. And regardless of root or no root. Weaver isn't becoming meta in ordinary zergs again because of what I said earlier (zero boons/boonrips. No additonal team benefit. Don't need more than 2-3) Anyway like I said, this isn't even an argument this is a subjective point. I also find retal a pain in the butt and it becomes No 1. issue for me when clouding without a tag and not doing gvgs. Ordinary play time while defending towers/keeps I down more times to retal than anything and remember how even though ranger pet rez is OP, mistform is god's gift to eles in towers and keeps...

Also I think 50 people saying weaver is hard to master in zergs while you say it's easy isn't exactly a very valid argument here. You found it easy which is good for you! One more weaver zergin around is a welcome sight and tbh... I'd much rather die to meteors than to a stupid Guardian symbol T_T ... I also found rev tricky with the legend swaps. Their burst and utility is also a bit trickier to pull but they're also tankier and less punished on mistakes and more wanted because of the boons they dish out. In any case most of the points people here are throwing in terms of damage are meh for me. Weaver damage is fine in wvw. It's the healthiest it has been in a while in terms of usage and popularity after other classes were hit with nerfs. I'd much rather it remain untouched. And if they do think of something, the root on meteors for a QoL @Anet ;)

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

It's not "hard" to leran, it is related to chance.Or, as you suggest, you wait for enemies to be on decline and die/rez each others; but so you're just tagging dead people and we don't care how much damage you can deal; or you try to anticipate, predict movements; and you flip a coin; sometimes it pays, other times it doesn't.Like this, it doesn't seem different to any other class with wells or bubbles etc; but they don't take the same risk to both their life and the use of their mains skills, with roots long CD, combos to place themself, squishy class ...

Meteor shower :24 sec CD is not long, but you may want to use it with Flash or Burning retreat; plus you have 4sec rooted cast-time, 1-2sec delay to the damages; you want to maintain differents buffs/mights for 9 secondes, you want the enemies to stand in it for 9seconds, you want a good RNG for each meteor to hit enemies, you don't want to die from retaliation, you want your allies to combine their DPS ...It's not an intuitive skill; it's not that easy to make good use of it. It's the same for the storm 60sec CD, FGS 180sec, or dual attacks that can be reflected; you don't want to waste them... They are not as easy to place as AA lich form with stab and 40k hp, or wells/traps with instant damage and shorter CD, etc.

Personnally I don't think that; when we're playing Elem/weaver in WvW, we are necessarily useless; but it's still situational; If the zerg had to choose, they'ld take something else, a safe bet.And it's okai to not always be top1 meta with cheesy skills, and see elems everywhere; somewhere you're preserving the prestige when you're the one weaver doing great ; but for that it would be cool to actually be top1 meta sometimes.What elem has not been since years, in any of games modes.It's cool when you see compliments (or insults) because you're doing great while trying hard with a class most of people don't/can't play; yet it's always annoying to see randoms nerfs from devs even though you already feel alone playing elem. I wish sometimes we get some loves without any counterparts, like the recent changes to Fire lane for example, or to tempest shouts with backpedaling months after ... "Wow yeah ... thank you anet ... wow 10% damage in pve, but I don't have fury anymore ... wow"

[Helicity.3416]

Buff support Tempest, nerf support scrapper.

That is all.

[Zeesh.7286]

@Helicity.3416 said:Buff support Tempest, nerf support scrapper.

That is all.

fixed it.You need tempest auras/shouts to affect 10 targets again OR as an alternative add in group stability in overloads instead of just self stab. They will instantly become a valuable support. You don't need to nerf support scrapper.