Season 9 Queue Changes

[Tinnel.4369]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Extend this down to just plat overall so I can laugh at all the fools that got carried into plat by their duo hug buddy and barely trying to keep themselves alive in the plat scene.

Oh if you can do that Anet I would be the happiest woman alive.

This applies to everysinglebracket.........

[Vagrant.7206]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Extend this down to just plat overall so I can laugh at all the fools that got carried into plat by their duo hug buddy and barely trying to keep themselves alive in the plat scene.

Oh if you can do that Anet I would be the happiest woman alive.

This applies to everysinglebracket.........

It doesn't make sense to deny bronze, silver, or gold the ability to duo queue. Those brackets are for people learning to play or to have fun. If you're in plat, you're generally trying to get somewhere decent, which is why plat should be solo queue.

[masskillerxploit.2165]

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@masskillerxploit.2165 said:

@Pvt Frosty.6973 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:I remember when people actually asked to join teams in chat or LFG to PvP with. Cause now its just an empty map chat with nothing but crickets chirping cause everyone just plays alone anyways.

Screw friends right? I love playing alone. I've never seen a game in my life that literally bars you from playing with your friends. What the kitten kinda decision making is this? Who comes up with this kitten?

Why not just get rid of parties altogether? Screw squads too right? Why not make WvW solo only, raid in PvE alone?

Why is it only PvP that's being punished?

The issue is the population is too low to separate duo/solo queue, or team/solo queues. Too much MMR variability.

Also, why not make friends with people

while

solo queuing? It's not like you're playing with 4 bots (possible but very unlikely). Or why not voice chat while solo queuing with people? Is it really that big of a detriment to lose 1 person while queuing? Or, if you're solo queuing you can stream (which a lot of people do) and feel connected with people.

I don't understand this argument.

If anything, duo queuing feels awkward sometimes because it's just you and your friend/duo, and if the duo is new or someone you just started duoing with it'll take time to break the ice, if ever.

My problem is not that I have trouble making friends. Its that I can't play with them. Anet is forcing us to play alone? How is that any fun? The whole point of an online game is to be with other people.

If Anet made WvW duo parties only, and if u were in a t1 server, you couldn't be in a party at all, people would complain.If Anet made raids solo only, people would complain.But when Anet makes PvP duo/solo only, all of a sudden we're wrong for wanting to play with our friends...

I don't understand your argument behind Anet banning people from playing with their friends in a gamemode that is supposed to

ENCOURAGE TEAMS

.

This has been chewed to near death with the introduction of duo queue already, and I don't know why you feel you have to bring it up again.

The issue is not to discourage players from playing together, but to offer a better environment. The population simply isn't big enough to allow premades into ranked, back when you could, it barely ever guaranteed good games because you would never meet another premade or the skill difference of the premades was too big. This means that you need a separate ranked queue for premades which this game just simply cannot afford with its playerbase in pvp right now. it has absolutely nothing to do with other game modes either.

So instead they offer you a slightly different premade ranked queue, by restricting queue times to 3 times a day. I think it is a marvellous solution to the problem and I commend anet for it. The same way I commend them to introducing soloq only to legend ranks, something honest legend players have asked for on numerous occasions now. It is a good first step. I do agree with extending it into platinum, but they already said they will be monitoring the effects, ready to up or down the barrier.

What.. better environment or diminishing population, pick 1. Look around at the other successful competitive ranked modes in other games such as CSGO, OW, etc.. they all have max-party Q'ing.

The 3 Times are spread out and usually very inconvenient if you work, or have school.-ferox

Those games are only popular because that is the main selling point of those games, and they are all balanced and updated around PVP content. Large dev teams allow for fast balance updates, which is why players in those games stay much longer than in a MMO's PVP mode.

GW2 is much slower at this, which is why people started to leave.

The old ranked has been split into ATs. What needs to happen is to make ATs much more interesting and accessible. A shiny, monthly potion isn't enough incentive for some players, evidently, and the current gold amounts are in a good spot because anything higher is a bit too much.

We need incentive for PVEers and WVWers, not just other PVPers because we all know how concentrated the PVP playerbase is.

Perhaps we could add Karma to AT rewards. Selectable rewards? Maybe add unique, flashy ascended skins every several seasons, but WVW would need similar treatment.

Perhaps include a weekly Black Lion Key if winning an AT? And one in WVW too (three keys in all three game modes). Or maybe just include keys for participating in ATs instead of winning them. Lower chance of getting a key if you lose but 100% if you win an AT--again this is weekly.

I'd imagine a 'ready up' queue system for ATs would be an awesome thing. Every two hours maybe? Consider most PVE metas rotate off a 2 hour basis. Or maybe make it like Silverwastes where after the previous AT finished, include a short break, followed by an AT queue.

AT should be the new Ranked, being readily accessible to anyone.

tbh, the best thing to do that will incentivize WvWers and PvErs: add 5-man ranked back. solo or duo q only caters to the hardcore PvPers ONLY, because ppl think this gives the best match up in a low population scenario. The real truth here is that even in a solo/duo q environment, games are still going to feel one-sided, thats just how competitive games go, heck.. its even more random since one side could have the only 2 good players qing at specific times, which makes games even more one sided then they should be. I really didn't feel a difference in the amount of one-sided games this season with duoQ only vs when we had 5-man ranked Q.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

If you're going to place restrictions on duoQ, just remove it all together...how much more carebear could sPvP actually get? Is it really so difficult to meet people you enjoy playing with, stick together, and get good? Why do inexperienced players expect to beat a coordinated team that plays together frequently enough to have good synergy and rotations? Why would someone who likes team play even bother with sPvP at all in it's current form if there's zero possibility for collaboration? At this rate, we should just delete sPvP, add rewards to the free-for-all arena thing and call it a day.

As I've stated in the past, since organized sPvP has been removed from the game (aside from the odd Automated Tournament), please make ATs more frequent and overhaul Stronghold to play more like GvG from GW1.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

oh yea...add guild capes while you're at it :angry:

[Tinnel.4369]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Extend this down to just plat overall so I can laugh at all the fools that got carried into plat by their duo hug buddy and barely trying to keep themselves alive in the plat scene.

Oh if you can do that Anet I would be the happiest woman alive.

This applies to everysinglebracket.........

It doesn't make sense to deny bronze, silver, or gold the ability to duo queue. Those brackets are for people learning to play or to have fun. If you're in plat, you're generally trying to get somewhere decent, which is why plat should be solo queue.

What I meant applies is that there's people in every bracket that don't belong there, up or down. It's a flaw in the matchmaking that you can get carried up or drug down by not only your que partner, but the rest of your team.

This system isn't measuring personal rank, it's measuring apparent personal rank.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

This is a interesting change. But are you guys at ANet willing to do more, If match quality still suffers after this? Don't get me wrong. I'm happy that you guys are looking into the Manipulation META that has formed. But any news about better consistent match quality? Maybe a tweak with the MM before season 9 starts?

[shadowpass.4236]

You realize that strict parents raise sneaky children?

By restricting this gamemode so much, you're essentially encouraging people to find a way to cheat the system. If there were 5 mans, what would be the point of match manipulation? None.

If there were 5 mans, people would want to improve their gameplay and teamwork rather than que dodge and que on alts.

[shadowpass.4236]

"Here's a competitive team based gamemode. Here's the catch... there're no teams."

"Your reward for doing well in our (non) team based gamemode is isolation."

Gee thanks, Anet.

[Blood.5607]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:When you say "legendary" you do mean "cheater squad" right? We didn't have many actual legendary people since we had massive match manipulation going and a illegitimate "leader board".

This wont fix things when theses "legendary cheaters" wont stop until you actually stop them by means of a actual ban and not a wrist slap. Cheaters will cheat untill you actually take a stand against the troll squad up on top. The cheat squad will find a way to team up may it be smerfing or off time play.Funny comment... there was only 1 in the entire top 20 on NA that was supposedly "cheating"...

[shadowpass.4236]

@Blood.5607 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:When you say "legendary" you do mean "cheater squad" right? We didn't have many actual legendary people since we had massive match manipulation going and a illegitimate "leader board".

This wont fix things when theses "legendary cheaters" wont stop until you actually stop them by means of a actual ban and not a wrist slap. Cheaters will cheat untill you actually take a stand against the troll squad up on top. The cheat squad will find a way to team up may it be smerfing or off time play.Funny comment... there was only 1 in the entire top 20 on NA that was supposedly "cheating"...

Yeah its funny how most people think that legendaries are all cheaters. If it were so easy to cheat your way into legend, why don't they do it as well?

100% guarantee that anyone that says this type of stuff would get steamrolled by legend players in an actual fight lol

[Ziggityzog.7389]

@Blood.5607 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:When you say "legendary" you do mean "cheater squad" right? We didn't have many actual legendary people since we had massive match manipulation going and a illegitimate "leader board".

This wont fix things when theses "legendary cheaters" wont stop until you actually stop them by means of a actual ban and not a wrist slap. Cheaters will cheat untill you actually take a stand against the troll squad up on top. The cheat squad will find a way to team up may it be smerfing or off time play.Funny comment... there was only 1 in the entire top 20 on NA that was supposedly "cheating"...

Ummm i'm sorry but i do believe that it was more then 1 little basement troll lol. I could list at least 10 names of basement trolls on the top 25-50 but anet punishes those who call losers out.

If there are cheaters why are you trying to cater and prevent them like little children? Why not actually ban permanently those who ruin the game for thousands of others? If you don't perm ban them then the children will just keep finding ways to cheat from mama's basement. I don't get the passive stance with loser cheaters. If they ruin the game for many others by cheating then just get rid of em and let the community move on.

Cheaters won't stop till forced to stop.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:If there are cheaters why are you trying to cater and prevent them like little children? Why not actually ban permanently those who ruin the game for thousands of others? If you don't perm ban them then the children will just keep finding ways to cheat from mama's basement. I don't get the passive stance with loser cheaters. If they ruin the game for many others by cheating then just get rid of em and let the community move on.

Cheaters won't stop till forced to stop.

There aren't nearly as many "cheaters" as many seem to think. Perma banning cheaters in the top 250 would be a handful maybe. Trolls, afkers, and griefers are a bigger problem.

[mysticeyesx.1346]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hi folks!

Starting with Season 9, legendary players will no longer be able to duo queue. Because we have so few legendary players, it’s very difficult to get legendary players into an appropriate match. When legendary players duo queue, it greatly compounds this difficulty. Our goal with this is to improve matchmaking at higher skill levels.

Why didn’t we restrict duo queue all-together? We didn’t want to remove this option for everyone, when the problem we are trying to solve exists within a tiny fraction of the player base.

We’ll be keeping a sharp eye on how this affects Season 9. This will be a fairly easy thing for us to adjust if we feel it necessary in the future.

When are you going to fix the pvp system?

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Lyger.5429 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:A couple > @Miyu.8137 said:

@Seiken.3176 said:.... so they now will duo queue with plat, no difference.

Legendary players won't be able to duo queue, means they can't duo at all? So they can't duo not even with platinum. That's how I understand it.

This is correct. Legendary players cannot duo queue with anyone.

Ben please consider making this platinum and upwards as the number of legend players is quite small. Or perhaps top 250 and up as others have said. Don't do half measures go all the way.

The only problem with restricting to top 250 is it would bring up questions of how do you handle players that would have high enough rating but have decay or not enough games played. I suppose it could be coded so that all players with a skill rating equal to or greater than whoever has the 250th spot cannot duo q.

[Sorem.9157]

I believe the Duo Q blockage should be linked to something "Prestigious". As in, if you reach a certain level, and other people will know that you're on that level, (Eg. Legendary Tag) it is ok to increase the dificulty to climb. If you do not look at the player pool what is going to happen is that if you're currently at legendary and you can't carry solo, you're gonna stay plat and be able to play with your friends still. With that said, it is not exactly fair for Legendary players because the player pool on the higher ranks is so small and very oftenly Platinum 3 and Legendary 1 players are pretty much on the same skill level. In my opinion, even though i believe blocking Duo Queue is a step in the right direction, it should affect a bigger player base, while still envolving something prestigious. I believe if we could get an extra pin on our name saying that we ARE in the top 250 and link the Duo Queue blocking to that, it would be a much better solution. If blocking DuoQ isn't associated with anything that will make other people know that "Hey I reached that level" it would really be just something frustrating. And honestly, a Platinum Tag is really nothing special anymore.

[Dreams.3128]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Kuya.6495 said:Just leaving my daily reminder that this change needs to include plat division as well, otherwise there will be duo q plat smurfs sniping legendaries.

We're going to start with just legendary for the start of Season 9. If platinum smurf sniping becomes a bigger problem than it already is, it's something we can change easily on our end without a full release. Potentially mid-season.

I can feel the excitement building in my gut.

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Extend this down to just plat overall so I can laugh at all the fools that got carried into plat by their duo hug buddy and barely trying to keep themselves alive in the plat scene.

Oh if you can do that Anet I would be the happiest woman alive.

This applies to everysinglebracket.........

There has not been excruciating amount of smurfs in the other tiers and the community made it fairly clear no one cares if you are below plat 1. Even if you are teetering between gold 3 and plat 1.

Most cases have been reported in plat where people want to keep in plat as much as possible for bragging rights or a show of skill, therefore this inclines people to duo together (especially low tier golds) to just duo with their plat buds because they are 'so good'.

No, this deserves to be plat and legendary where the root of the problem has been festering.

And this will allow legend players to breathe and not worry if some spiteful little ESL trolls want to try to snag their rank for kicks and everyone else's suffering. If you wanna stay in plat, show your worth as an individual.

[Saiyan.1704]

Wait, so, what happened if one of the Legendary players makes an alt? They can simply start alt switching.

Or deliberately derank 1 unpopular alt out of the 6 (accounts) they own.

It's a step, I guess.

[Jagdtiger.2517]

@PaRaPhReNiA.8763 said:Pls extend this to top 250.

[MarkoNS.3261]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065Good day, let me first say i like pvp in gw2 however it has some flaws that make me not want to play it anymore or make it a chore, for example why is there no 1v1 ranked option why must my victory or defeat be dictated by 4 random people who maybe are not dedicated to pvp as much as i am or are not giving it their all. RNG is horrible in pvp and there should be a 1v1 ranked mode for people who do not like teams and rng.

[Miyu.8137]

Because there is no balance between proffessions. And it's smth so hard to achieve with so many proffessions around that I doubt a 1v1 will ever be working, besides I don't even think it's Anet intention. Can imagine 2v2 though.

[troops.8276]

or 3v3 I'd like

[masskillerxploit.2165]

@Blood.5607 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:When you say "legendary" you do mean "cheater squad" right? We didn't have many actual legendary people since we had massive match manipulation going and a illegitimate "leader board".

This wont fix things when theses "legendary cheaters" wont stop until you actually stop them by means of a actual ban and not a wrist slap. Cheaters will cheat untill you actually take a stand against the troll squad up on top. The cheat squad will find a way to team up may it be smerfing or off time play.Funny comment... there was only 1 in the entire top 20 on NA that was supposedly "cheating"...

There was a couple more blood

-ferox

[brannigan.9831]

This isn't going to change much at all. And to the people crying for this below legendary stop blaming your lack of success on not being in a duo. What crutch would you have to complain about if everyone was solo you might have actually have to come to terms with how bad you are.

[jcbroe.4329]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:To all those complaining that top legendary players will leave if they can't queue with their friends:How many platinum players had to leave and got sick of pvp by being in the same match as a duo Legendary? (opposing side)Due to the low number of players at top tiers, the matchmaker has a hard time finding good matches for a duo of Legendary players, meaning it puts them against players of much lower skill. I guess they like stomping platinum players or something, yes that's so good "training".

It's a good change

U said it yourself that the matchmaker is the problem here, not the Leg players. I see no reason why they should take the blame and get pushed in such a position. This is the definition of screwing a targeted playerbase (however small) to put a band-aid on the broken ranked PvP state. I'd rather have PvP die out than watch something as obnoxious as this get implemented.

"Hi! U reached legendary,congratulations, now go play alone.." It's a joke.

The matchmaker isn't the problem, the lack of enough people at higher tiers is. When 2 legends queue together it's much harder for the matchmaker to find good opponents and no amount of coding or magic can help with this. At least if they queue solo they will face each other, or one of them facing upper platinum players would lead to a more interesting match.

Perhaps the better solution (if it's possible) would be to make duo queue possible after a certain threshold of queuing players is reached, so if there are lots of players playing pvp, duo queue is available, when there are fewer of them playing, then no duo queue is allowed (for higher tiers always). That way, if you want to play with your friend, you will have to play during prime time when the majority of pvp players are online and playing, and when there is a lack of players, then duo queue would be disabled.

I don't know if it's possible for Anet to check the queue health and react accordingly though. It might take some magic coding to implement it.

It's actually an entirely different problem than not being able to code it, which is that displaying the status of queues will keep people from queuing under the perception that if they population queuing at the time isn't large enough to make duo queues, then it isn't healthy enough to queue at that time.

You'll effectively reduce the population of people playing at every given time just by making that information public.