Deadeye = official weakest elite class

[Fxthaid.4832]

What is this spec even good for? In PvE it's absolutely useless. In PvP, it's outshadowed by Dual Pistol builds (which is a troll spvp build) and dd condi thieves. The only use I see for it is for roleplaying and low-level pvp.

And how come nobody is talking about this?

[Doctor Hide.6345]

People are talking about the issues Deadeye currently has on the official thief sub forum which is where this thread should be.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Fxthaid.4832 said:What is this spec even good for? In PvE it's absolutely useless. In PvP, it's outshadowed by Dual Pistol builds (which is a troll spvp build) and dd condi thieves. The only use I see for it is for roleplaying and low-level pvp.

And how come nobody is talking about this?

If players would:

• Keep mark up.
• Stop spamming rifle three and find some other source of might generation, as there are plenty of better options to choose from.
• Stop trying to melee with it.
• Take advantage of the three ini cost stealth afforded by double tapping Sniper's Cover.
• Take advantage of it's support capabilities, as they affect the Deadeye too.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's Cover is the only way to deal damage with the Rifle.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's cover roots you for long periods of time and makes you stupidly vulnerable, when Free Action is instant with no CD.
• Find a perch to safe from instead of immediately jumping into the middle of combat.
• Not go full glass when the spec gives you near permanent access to might and fury on top of the 20% crit rate afforded by Sniper's Cover.
• Use Mark as a range finder as it reaches 1500 without kneeling.

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

[Fxthaid.4832]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Fxthaid.4832 said:What is this spec even good for? In PvE it's absolutely useless. In PvP, it's outshadowed by Dual Pistol builds (which is a troll spvp build) and dd condi thieves. The only use I see for it is for roleplaying and low-level pvp.

And how come nobody is talking about this?

If players would:

• Keep mark up.
• Stop spamming rifle three and find some other source of might generation, as there are plenty of better options to choose from.
• Stop trying to melee with it.
• Take advantage of the three ini cost stealth afforded by double tapping Sniper's Cover.
• Take advantage of it's support capabilities, as they affect the Deadeye too.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's Cover is the only way to deal damage with the Rifle.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's cover roots you for long periods of time and makes you stupidly vulnerable, when Free Action is instant with no CD.
• Find a perch to safe from instead of immediately jumping into the middle of combat.
• Not go full glass when the spec gives you near permanent access to might and fury on top of the 20% crit rate afforded by Sniper's Cover.
• Use Mark as a range finder as it reaches 1500 without kneeling.

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

In other words, "be really good and skilled at this spec and you will do fine in pvp" which literally applies to any specs, bad or good

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Well done, you nailed it. Now get on with it.

[Rastel.9157]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Fxthaid.4832 said:What is this spec even good for? In PvE it's absolutely useless. In PvP, it's outshadowed by Dual Pistol builds (which is a troll spvp build) and dd condi thieves. The only use I see for it is for roleplaying and low-level pvp.

And how come nobody is talking about this?

If players would:

• Keep mark up.
• Stop spamming rifle three and find some other source of might generation, as there are plenty of better options to choose from.
• Stop trying to melee with it.
• Take advantage of the three ini cost stealth afforded by double tapping Sniper's Cover.
• Take advantage of it's support capabilities, as they affect the Deadeye too.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's Cover is the only way to deal damage with the Rifle.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's cover roots you for long periods of time and makes you stupidly vulnerable, when Free Action is instant with no CD.
• Find a perch to safe from instead of immediately jumping into the middle of combat.
• Not go full glass when the spec gives you near permanent access to might and fury on top of the 20% crit rate afforded by Sniper's Cover.
• Use Mark as a range finder as it reaches 1500 without kneeling.

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

Would you maybe help some of us thats new (new too thief at least and rejoined gw2) and want to try the rifle then?

Have a build suggestion and what armor to go for etc?

[eldrjth.7384]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

considering everything you said it still woulnt be anygood in PvE which is all I play, because the sustain dps will still be low. It will still be clunky to use too imo considering you cant really sit in one play for long in most PvE content. It may be decent, maybe, in PvP though if players use deaths judgement instead of 3 round bursting and let malice max out while trying not to get killed in the mean time somehow.

[Deifact.3095]

@Zacchary.6183 said:

@Fxthaid.4832 said:What is this spec even good for? In PvE it's absolutely useless. In PvP, it's outshadowed by Dual Pistol builds (which is a troll spvp build) and dd condi thieves. The only use I see for it is for roleplaying and low-level pvp.

And how come nobody is talking about this?

If players would:

• Keep mark up.
• Stop spamming rifle three and find some other source of might generation, as there are plenty of better options to choose from.
• Stop trying to melee with it.
• Take advantage of the three ini cost stealth afforded by double tapping Sniper's Cover.
• Take advantage of it's support capabilities, as they affect the Deadeye too.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's Cover is the only way to deal damage with the Rifle.
• Stop thinking that Kneel/Sniper's cover roots you for long periods of time and makes you stupidly vulnerable, when Free Action is instant with no CD.
• Find a perch to safe from instead of immediately jumping into the middle of combat.
• Not go full glass when the spec gives you near permanent access to might and fury on top of the 20% crit rate afforded by Sniper's Cover.
• Use Mark as a range finder as it reaches 1500 without kneeling.

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

Totally agree with you. It's new and different and people aren't used to using it yet. It's actually quite a varied elite with a few ways to spec for it. I think thief who are used to playing melee are finding it hard to adjust to the ranged playstyle maybe?

[Zalavaaris.5329]

It's funny because weaver is also a new spec yet it's also easy to see why it's so good at dealing damage. I'd love for the more informed to direct towards good pve damage with the rifle.

[Elxdark.9702]

no, weakest elite is renegade by far and then deadeye.

[Zacchary.6183]

@eldrjth.7384 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

considering everything you said it still woulnt be anygood in PvE which is all I play, because the sustain dps will still be low. It will still be clunky to use too imo considering you cant really sit in one play for long in most PvE content. It may be decent, maybe, in PvP though if players use deaths judgement instead of 3 round bursting and let malice max out while trying not to get killed in the mean time somehow.

Even if sustain DPS is low, you can still balance it out by using a might-buffed DJ which is really easy to pull off. Improv and FfE can allow you to start off a fight with 20 might for 15s which can really boost your auto's dps up into the 5ks and can give you 5 digit DJs without having to wait for malice buildup.

[Aetatis.5418]

@eldrjth.7384 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:

they will find its very potent in any game mode they try it in.

considering everything you said it still woulnt be anygood in PvE which is all I play, because the sustain dps will still be low. It will still be clunky to use too imo considering you cant really sit in one play for long in most PvE content. It may be decent, maybe, in PvP though if players use deaths judgement instead of 3 round bursting and let malice max out while trying not to get killed in the mean time somehow.

start playing necro and suddenly you will fell A LOT better and welcome your deadeye in pve with much love :)

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:It's funny because weaver is also a new spec yet it's also easy to see why it's so good at dealing damage. I'd love for the more informed to direct towards good pve damage with the rifle.

I play Scourge, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage and Spellbreaker in PvE. The hardest one to play is Weaver. Sure it can deal a lot of damage, but trying to remember the skills while cycling through attunements takes a lot of effort. The easiest Elite Spec and deals a lot of single and AoE damage, in my opinion, is Scourge.

Weaver is hard for me just as Deadeye is hard for someone else. It's so much easy to mess up with Weaver than with other Elite Spec. Compare to the HoT Elite Specs which are all easy to use, the PoF Elite Specs includes a learning curve.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:It's funny because weaver is also a new spec yet it's also easy to see why it's so good at dealing damage. I'd love for the more informed to direct towards good pve damage with the rifle.

I play Scourge, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage and Spellbreaker in PvE. The hardest one to play is Weaver. Sure it can deal a lot of damage, but trying to remember the skills while cycling through attunements takes a lot of effort. The easiest Elite Spec and deals a lot of single and AoE damage, in my opinion, is Scourge.

Weaver is hard for me just as Deadeye is hard for someone else. It's so much easy to mess up with Weaver than with other Elite Spec. Compare to the HoT Elite Specs which are all easy to use, the PoF Elite Specs includes a learning curve.

A lot of thieves these days also got babied on how braindead Daredevil is and how overbuffed or passive a lot of the revised thief traits are since HoT as well as opposed to old lines in even the core game's context.

DE is meant to be slower and more calculated. A lot of people can't handle that.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Elxdark.9702 said:no, weakest elite is renegade by far and then deadeye.

lol, yeah, I still can't figure out what Renegade suppose to bring to the table -- it seems incoherent and all over the place.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

From a damage standpoint, Deadeye still has Scrapper and Herald beat, as well as power Reaper.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:It's funny because weaver is also a new spec yet it's also easy to see why it's so good at dealing damage. I'd love for the more informed to direct towards good pve damage with the rifle.

I play Scourge, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage and Spellbreaker in PvE. The hardest one to play is Weaver. Sure it can deal a lot of damage, but trying to remember the skills while cycling through attunements takes a lot of effort. The easiest Elite Spec and deals a lot of single and AoE damage, in my opinion, is Scourge.

Weaver is hard for me just as Deadeye is hard for someone else. It's so much easy to mess up with Weaver than with other Elite Spec. Compare to the HoT Elite Specs which are all easy to use, the PoF Elite Specs includes a learning curve.

That doesn't matter. If qt, who I guarantee would play it correctly, can do amazing dps on weaver and say all deadeye damage is garbage that would normally be enough on its own. But you also have a lot of people who can say the same through there own testing. This isn't a l2p issue.. the damage is just bad and so far nobody has posted any logs proving otherwise. I'd be happy for the elites who play deadeye amazingly (but couldn't get into qt) to post some logs proving we are all just bad who complain.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:It's funny because weaver is also a new spec yet it's also easy to see why it's so good at dealing damage. I'd love for the more informed to direct towards good pve damage with the rifle.

I play Scourge, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage and Spellbreaker in PvE. The hardest one to play is Weaver. Sure it can deal a lot of damage, but trying to remember the skills while cycling through attunements takes a lot of effort. The easiest Elite Spec and deals a lot of single and AoE damage, in my opinion, is Scourge.

Weaver is hard for me just as Deadeye is hard for someone else. It's so much easy to mess up with Weaver than with other Elite Spec. Compare to the HoT Elite Specs which are all easy to use, the PoF Elite Specs includes a learning curve.

That doesn't matter. If qt, who I guarantee would play it correctly, can do amazing dps on weaver and say all deadeye damage is garbage that would normally be enough on its own. But you also have a lot of people who can say the same through there own testing. This isn't a l2p issue.. the damage is just bad and so far nobody has posted any logs proving otherwise. I'd be happy for the elites who play deadeye amazingly (but couldn't get into qt) to post some logs proving we are all just bad who complain.

I mean weaver is a bit of a bad comparison since it's topping out the list on both small and large targets. A better comparison would be Power Deadeye versus Power Daredevil, which is very comparable in terms of DPS.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

Staff Daredevil:13Power Deadeye:14

I guess the argument could be made that all thief damage is bad because our best build does 89.5% of the DPS of weaver, but comparing Thief to Thief builds,

Condi Daredevil (Group): 100%Staff Daredevil: 92.4%Power Deadeye: 90.2%Condi Daredevil (Solo): 80.7%

so it's really not that bad.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that there's only like ~~ 4 ~~ 5 power builds on their small target list and thief is 2 of those.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:It's funny because weaver is also a new spec yet it's also easy to see why it's so good at dealing damage. I'd love for the more informed to direct towards good pve damage with the rifle.

I play Scourge, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage and Spellbreaker in PvE. The hardest one to play is Weaver. Sure it can deal a lot of damage, but trying to remember the skills while cycling through attunements takes a lot of effort. The easiest Elite Spec and deals a lot of single and AoE damage, in my opinion, is Scourge.

Weaver is hard for me just as Deadeye is hard for someone else. It's so much easy to mess up with Weaver than with other Elite Spec. Compare to the HoT Elite Specs which are all easy to use, the PoF Elite Specs includes a learning curve.

That doesn't matter. If qt, who I guarantee would play it correctly, can do amazing dps on weaver and say all deadeye damage is garbage that would normally be enough on its own. But you also have a lot of people who can say the same through there own testing. This isn't a l2p issue.. the damage is just bad and so far nobody has posted any logs proving otherwise. I'd be happy for the elites who play deadeye amazingly (but couldn't get into qt) to post some logs proving we are all just bad who complain.

Of course it does since DPS is dependent on who is playing the profession -- and not everyone can max out DPS like QT does. Not every player will play it correctly so the best analysis is to also see the average DPS of all Weavers, not just QT's. Using QT's result is misleading and just like any other PoF profession, there's a lot of L2P involved. I'm still learning to play Deadeye well although I find Scourge really easy to play. QT even have this disclaimer on their website;

"Please understand that we are a speed clear guild, our opinions are based around achieving the highest DPS possible on every boss. It is not necessary to be a class nazi to kill any boss; DPS checks in Guild Wars 2 Raids are very lenient. You and your team can do the job with just about every team comp. Just because we say something is not recommended doesn’t mean it’s not viable."

The flaw of using QT's numbers in an argument is relying heavily on the assumption that every player playing certain profession can maxout DPS. There are so many factors that can invalidate that numbers and the most reliable result would be an average DPS across all players of a certain profession.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Yea but you're basically saying deadeye is weaver level hard and thus isn't doing comparable damage... until you l2p... That isn't true.. deadeye damage is bad

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:Yea but you're basically saying deadeye is weaver level hard and thus isn't doing comparable damage... until you l2p... That isn't true.. deadeye damage is bad

No, that's not what I said. That's you jumping to a wrong conclusion to control the discussion. What I posted is very clear so I suggest you read it until you comprehend what I posted.

A statement like "deadeye damage is bad" is neither helpful nor informative without context.

Using QT's context, the difference between Condi DD (34k) and Power DE (31k) is 3k in small hitbox. That's not what you can consider as "bad damage" when the bottom number is 9k.

The Power DE build they posted uses a simple CnD-> BS-> AA rotation and occasionally throwing Shadow Flare at full Malice. The L2P part of this build is knowing when to use Shadow Flare, Venom, and stolen item for maximum effect without breaking your DPS rhythm -- not to mention positioning for BS to avoid front stabs.

In the same benchmark, Power DE and Staff DD practically have the same damage output. The only significant difference has nothing to do with damage -- DD has an edge in terms of survivability and mobility.

[Fxthaid.4832]

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:From a damage standpoint, Deadeye still has Scrapper and Herald beat, as well as power Reaper.

Not really. Deadeye's full damage WITH a rifle requires you to be stationary, not to mention anyone can block and dodge your shots, which waste your initiative.

The BEST Deadeye build revolves around Dual Pistols and permaswiftness:

This is the build I use for primarily pvp. You can pretty much burst down anyone super fast, provided that necro's don't catch up to you

[Asur.9178]

@Fxthaid.4832 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:From a damage standpoint, Deadeye still has Scrapper and Herald beat, as well as power Reaper.

Not really. Deadeye's full damage WITH a rifle requires you to be stationary, not to mention anyone can block and dodge your shots, which waste your initiative.

The BEST Deadeye build revolves around Dual Pistols and permaswiftness:

This is the build I use for primarily pvp. You can pretty much burst down anyone super fast, provided that necro's don't catch up to you

=) =) =) =) =)

[Zedek.8932]

I L O V E Deadeye. It rekindled my love to this game and put it above all my other games (playtime wise) because I enjoy it so much.I know you guys love huge numbers and such, but if I can get my life done in Tyria, I am sure you guys could also. But often I feel like many of you don't want to get used to it really. It's fine, there is Daredevil for you.

I just don't understand the point of this thread. Then again, I am playing alone, so I am free of any nagging or striving for the best. It's the Facebook disease: "Oh no, somebody else posted a picture of a nice car/vaccation/meal and I don't have it. :( :( :(". But who says you gotta do?

First I struggled a lot until I had helping hands getting my terrible build fixed and now the Rifle hasn't been moved from the HERO panel for weeks. It's a fixed part of my weaponry.

I also honestly don't really care about this complain-fest in here, just a little voice saying I am having a blast with Deadeye. Now you can go on with theorycrafting that never actually happens ingame..

Excelsior.

[Barzah.8019]

Deadeye Rifle is actually quite good, it's the malice system that actually build a huge wall around it. If you play Deadeye Rifle long enough, you will realize that the fastest way to get max malice stack is pretty much contradict with Rifle general strategy itself. Unlike pistol unload tactic, rifle reward player that wait and act only when needed and then just disappear once again. UNFORTUNATELY, the current malice system were built toward aggressive player which mean that you will get punished when trying to utilize the rifle advantages which COUNT AS PURE STUPIDITY!!