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miss arnhem.7840

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

Good Rogue from other games , have found a way to work around for their stealth Backfire .So introducing backfire here too , Good Thieves will find a way too

Gw2 , dont need to re-invent the wheel :P

Allow me to hard cc stun lock my opponent from true perma stealth at press of a button and global most classes in one burst rotation like my sub rogue can in wow with 2x ways to go back into perma stealth, again press of a button to disengage vs gw2 thiefs ability to gain in combat stealth indefinitely while using global resources to do so and its a deal :) but again I want the effectiveness of my sub rogues stunlocks and its burst effectiveness along with the changes to stealth to match wows. Players would be quickly remembering when teef could truly backstab almost a full hp bar in one hit, actually in some cases was one hit lol.

Ok lets copy then .Where you sucrifice damage to do 6 sec stun . I belive here its called Haste>PistolWhipWhere the Rogue can Vanish , but get de-stealth when dotted

I dont sacrifice damage to do six sec stun on rogue before my opening, yes I get destealthed if hit with dots but thats why u use ur condi clear than vanish, always. On xpac release sub was op and I could stunlock and global almost any class via one burst rotation lol they did get nerfs and still do great burst damage but yes not crazy like they did, in comparison be like a backstab and a heartseeker globalling someone while stunlocked from full hp, it was way overtuned and as a sub player agreed was op. But ur right mages are overtuned as well as were hunters ranged damage bs that made soulbeast lb damage look like child's play.

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Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

Good Rogue from other games , have found a way to work around for their stealth Backfire .So introducing backfire here too , Good Thieves will find a way too

Gw2 , dont need to re-invent the wheel :P

Allow me to hard cc stun lock my opponent from true perma stealth at press of a button and global most classes in one burst rotation like my sub rogue can in wow with 2x ways to go back into perma stealth, again press of a button to disengage vs gw2 thiefs ability to gain in combat stealth indefinitely while using global resources to do so and its a deal :) but again I want the effectiveness of my sub rogues stunlocks and its burst effectiveness along with the changes to stealth to match wows. Players would be quickly remembering when teef could truly backstab almost a full hp bar in one hit, actually in some cases was one hit lol.

Ok lets copy then .Where you sucrifice damage to do 6 sec stun . I belive here its called Haste>PistolWhipWhere the Rogue can Vanish , but get de-stealth when dotted

I dont sacrifice damage to do six sec stun on rogue before my opening, yes I get destealthed on but thats why u use ur condi clear than vanish, always.

For the opening part , either you choose Ambuss(backstab) , or 2-3 sec stun , or 2-3 sec silence (Garrote) .Use combo points for either Evisecrate , or stun+auto attack for 2-6 sec .Lets create a 3 min cd spell that removes dots and make you immune for some sec . If its on CD , lets hope that the Priest Bubble you or remove dots ,,,exept Bleeds , where you must be a Dwarf

When WoW , will found out to way to put a small red/blue circle around their class icon , so ingame when i see 2 mages screen , i know which of them is from red , i will stop hating them :P(DO NOT CHANGE the color of the name , because itwill become comfusing as Dota . I will slap your back chicks)

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

Good Rogue from other games , have found a way to work around for their stealth Backfire .So introducing backfire here too , Good Thieves will find a way too

Gw2 , dont need to re-invent the wheel :P

Allow me to hard cc stun lock my opponent from true perma stealth at press of a button and global most classes in one burst rotation like my sub rogue can in wow with 2x ways to go back into perma stealth, again press of a button to disengage vs gw2 thiefs ability to gain in combat stealth indefinitely while using global resources to do so and its a deal :) but again I want the effectiveness of my sub rogues stunlocks and its burst effectiveness along with the changes to stealth to match wows. Players would be quickly remembering when teef could truly backstab almost a full hp bar in one hit, actually in some cases was one hit lol.

Ok lets copy then .Where you sucrifice damage to do 6 sec stun . I belive here its called Haste>PistolWhipWhere the Rogue can Vanish , but get de-stealth when dotted

I dont sacrifice damage to do six sec stun on rogue before my opening, yes I get destealthed on but thats why u use ur condi clear than vanish, always.

For the opening part , either you choose Ambuss(backstab) , or 2-3 sec stun , or 2-3 sec silence (Garrote) .Use combo points for either Evisecrate , or stun+auto attack for 2-6 sec .Lets create a 3 min cd spell that removes dots and make you immune for some sec . If its on CD , lets hope that the Priest Bubble you or remove dots ,,,exept Bleeds , where you must be a Dwarf

When WoW , will found out to way to put a small red/blue circle around their class icon , so ingame when i see 2 mages screen , i know which of them is from red , i will stop hating them :P(DO NOT CHANGE the color of the name , because itwill become comfusing as Dota . I will slap your back chicks)

In wow ur opening isn't backstab ever, not for a long time and that's a sin rotation kinda not a sub. Sin doesn't burst nearly as hard as sub but has more sustained damage and more survivability than sub. Regardless this is all moot, sub rogue shares the same ideology as most of the thief class, sin would kinda be condi thief like playstyle but bottom line is as all rogues both ambush their targets via stealth, unload their burst and then are left with 2 decisions, either run and reset(hit and run-safer option due to design) or stay and fight and hopefully the damage ur burst did was enough to balance ur design flaws of being hit and run and not a true duelist. A lot of variables from there determine outcome but although the rogue classes are all different in each game the core designs are the same, even nightblade in eso, tho more so stemblade than magblade.

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Justine.6351

Justine.6351

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:How would you go about getting rid of it without getting rid of thief too? The less complicated the better. The less band aid the better.

Thief doesnt NEED perm stealth to be viable that is flat out absurd. Next I would suggest what thief is lacking is becoming revealed, also they shouldnt have skills to just remove revealed that seems totally wrong. Also every class should have decent access to cause revealed. Otherwise, yes Thief has too much stealth and with less stealth it would be ok to give thief other things like easier access to damage or defenses. You know balance that works in within the confines of the limitations of the other respective classes.

So you said his question is absurd and then immediately agreed that with less stealth "it would be ok to compensate with easier access to damage or defenses", but still didn't come up with anything more detailed, so in the end you dodged the question entirely anyways?Pretty weird as a response to
that particular comment
.

rofl yeah I was asking a mediating question on how to address perma stealth without it being a halfbaked garbage implementation that everyone ends up loling about. That is kind of the problem on these forums, people read in writing what they expect to read instead of what is actually written.

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Skada.1362

Skada.1362

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nerfing stealth will not ruin the thief class, it will put it in line. thief damage is already great, so is the overall defense and utilities. the thieves in this thread that are defending the current state of thief, especially SA builds, just want to keep playing the game in the easiest, most forgiving way possible. try playing other classes and duel competent SA DEs and daredevils and see how fun and engaging it is. its straight up disgusting, toxic and obnoxious lol.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:How would you go about getting rid of it without getting rid of thief too? The less complicated the better. The less band aid the better.

Thief doesnt NEED perm stealth to be viable that is flat out absurd. Next I would suggest what thief is lacking is becoming revealed, also they shouldnt have skills to just remove revealed that seems totally wrong. Also every class should have decent access to cause revealed. Otherwise, yes Thief has too much stealth and with less stealth it would be ok to give thief other things like easier access to damage or defenses. You know balance that works in within the confines of the limitations of the other respective classes.

So you said his question is absurd and then immediately agreed that with less stealth "it would be ok to compensate with easier access to damage or defenses", but still didn't come up with anything more detailed, so in the end you dodged the question entirely anyways?Pretty weird as a response to
that particular comment
.

No lol you guys are so defensive its hilarious. Actually, I ALL I said and will continue to say that YES, Perm stealth or anything close to perm stealth IS an issue in various ways and ISNT necessary for thief to work. Im also saying that since some classes dont have ways for force revealed combined with thiefs ability to constantly reapply stealth between attacks so quickly that they dont get hit if you cant cleave in place. Makes them a cancer even when nerfed into oblivion. I think it would be better for thief to have more limits on stealth and I would think that should be compensated.

I think my view makes allot more sense than yours, and I dont see any need to get into thief build specifics to make that assertion. I think you know im correct too

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:How would you go about getting rid of it without getting rid of thief too? The less complicated the better. The less band aid the better.

Thief doesnt NEED perm stealth to be viable that is flat out absurd. Next I would suggest what thief is lacking is becoming revealed, also they shouldnt have skills to just remove revealed that seems totally wrong. Also every class should have decent access to cause revealed. Otherwise, yes Thief has too much stealth and with less stealth it would be ok to give thief other things like easier access to damage or defenses. You know balance that works in within the confines of the limitations of the other respective classes.

So you said his question is absurd and then immediately agreed that with less stealth "it would be ok to compensate with easier access to damage or defenses", but still didn't come up with anything more detailed, so in the end you dodged the question entirely anyways?Pretty weird as a response to
that particular comment
.

and btw I dont have a large vested interest in this cause I dont roam as much as I used to. However, I even have friends that main thief that have long agreed with this view so you can come back and say I dont know shit but your wrong. You can say my opinion is invalid but you would be wrong. You can say Im the only one with this view but you would be wrong. My assertion is very reasonable actually. Im not calling for nerfs to thief Im calling for changes to thief that limit how often and how long it can go into stealth in a way that takes into account how counterable stealth is directly. You misrepresent what I even said.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

I presently have one dodge on Mirage and thief still has perm stealth. Compensation accomplished. =p

Seriously thought, when Mirage lost a dodge the compensation was not losing other things like IH so I have no sympathy left for your BS.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Sure specifically, mesmer should get better access to force revealed on thief or thief should be more counterable by Mirage and other classes that lack it. So you could buff them with more revealed or you could nerf stealth either would work. which is what Im suggesting. Its super simple to comprehend unless you are a thief who relies so heavily on stealth in ones build that you cannot function I think people who cant make thief work without stealth suck at thief.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

You sound 100% like you get carried by stealth.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

Good Rogue from other games , have found a way to work around for their stealth Backfire .So introducing backfire here too , Good Thives will find a way tpoo :P

You're the proverbial pigeon playing chess, aren't you?

Once again my dude, I couldn't care less about stealth in other games, because the context of those games is very different. There is "backfire" in this game for using stealth. Firstly, there's a cost to entering stealth in most cases (uses a dodge roll, using initiative, burning a utility/heal). Secondly, reveal exists in quite a few forms, all you have to do is not mess that up and a thief can't even access their stealth skills for, generally, a significant number of seconds (yes, I realize there is a skill that removes revealed, guess what there's also a interruptible casting animation for it. Third, stealth doesn't make a thief immune to damage or crowd control, you can still hit the thief and zone it away from you if you know what you're doing. Fourth, thieves are at an inherit disadvantage fighting around enemy towers and sentry points just because of the marked debuff, so thieves have to be much more careful about when and where they pick their fights.

You're right about one thing: good thieves will find a way. That's not the issue here. The issue is that bad players will always whine until a dev team caters to them, and PvP game modes become stale, boring trash.

Answer my question, please: What class do you main?

Then if there such Backfires , then you wouldnt mind some minor more .If you played other games , you will also find a way around the new BackfiresAnd you get more active defenses , by s/d :P

You only proposed "solution" has repeatedly been forcing the thief class to use s/d. Confining an entire class to a single weapon is not balance, nor is it compensation of any sort. It's pure idiocy. Any dev team who made such forced changes would lose players who main that class, and thus lose business.

To say I'm happy you don't work as a game dev for ANY company, is an understatement.

What class do you main?

should Mirage get its dodge back in your view?

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godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

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@Skada.1362 said:nerfing stealth will not ruin the thief class, it will put it in line. thief damage is already great, so is the overall defense and utilities. the thieves in this thread that are defending the current state of thief, especially SA builds, just want to keep playing the game in the easiest, most forgiving way possible. try playing other classes and duel competent SA DEs and daredevils and see how fun and engaging it is. its straight up disgusting, toxic and obnoxious lol.

Try running with the zergs as a thief and see how fun and engaging it is. You just want to make thief useless for every single role it could play in WvW because you get tossed in the dumpster by them.

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godz raiden.2631

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

I presently have one dodge on Mirage and thief still has perm stealth. Compensation accomplished. =p

Seriously thought, when Mirage lost a dodge the compensation was not losing other things like IH so I have no sympathy left for your BS.

Cool, so how about you ask for that 2nd dodge back instead of trying to convince a balance team to make another class less fun to play. I don't care if they give your mirage another dodge, good thieves will still probably wreck players like you lol.

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godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Sure specifically, mesmer should get better access to force revealed on thief or thief should be more counterable by Mirage and other classes that lack it. So you could buff them with more revealed or you could nerf stealth either would work. which is what Im suggesting. Its super simple to comprehend unless you are a thief who relies so heavily on stealth in ones build that you cannot function I think people who cant make thief work without stealth suck at thief.

I'm unsure how you think a class relying on a core aspect of that class's gameplay (stealth for thief in this case) is some sort of crutch.

"Guardians rely on blocks, boons, and invulnerability sooooo much, we should reduce their access to those things and teach those players a lesson!"

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godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

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Posted

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

You sound 100% like you get carried by stealth.

You sound 100% like a player who just started playing in the past few years and never learned how to fight a thief.

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godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

Good Rogue from other games , have found a way to work around for their stealth Backfire .So introducing backfire here too , Good Thives will find a way tpoo :P

You're the proverbial pigeon playing chess, aren't you?

Once again my dude, I couldn't care less about stealth in other games, because the context of those games is very different. There is "backfire" in this game for using stealth. Firstly, there's a cost to entering stealth in most cases (uses a dodge roll, using initiative, burning a utility/heal). Secondly, reveal exists in quite a few forms, all you have to do is not mess that up and a thief can't even access their stealth skills for, generally, a significant number of seconds (yes, I realize there is a skill that removes revealed, guess what there's also a interruptible casting animation for it. Third, stealth doesn't make a thief immune to damage or crowd control, you can still hit the thief and zone it away from you if you know what you're doing. Fourth, thieves are at an inherit disadvantage fighting around enemy towers and sentry points just because of the marked debuff, so thieves have to be much more careful about when and where they pick their fights.

You're right about one thing: good thieves will find a way. That's not the issue here. The issue is that bad players will always whine until a dev team caters to them, and PvP game modes become stale, boring trash.

Answer my question, please: What class do you main?

Then if there such Backfires , then you wouldnt mind some minor more .If you played other games , you will also find a way around the new BackfiresAnd you get more active defenses , by s/d :P

You only proposed "solution" has repeatedly been forcing the thief class to use s/d. Confining an entire class to a single weapon is not balance, nor is it compensation of any sort. It's pure idiocy. Any dev team who made such forced changes would lose players who main that class, and thus lose business.

To say I'm happy you don't work as a game dev for ANY company, is an understatement.

What class do you main?

should Mirage get its dodge back in your view?

Yes it should. If only to stop crybabies like you from bringing it up as an example of why thief needs to be gutted.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Sure specifically, mesmer should get better access to force revealed on thief or thief should be more counterable by Mirage and other classes that lack it. So you could buff them with more revealed or you could nerf stealth either would work. which is what Im suggesting. Its super simple to comprehend unless you are a thief who relies so heavily on stealth in ones build that you cannot function I think people who cant make thief work without stealth suck at thief.

I'm unsure how you think a class relying on a core aspect of that class's gameplay (stealth for thief in this case) is some sort of crutch.

"Guardians rely on blocks, boons, and invulnerability sooooo much, we should reduce their access to those things and teach those players a lesson!"

Story exaple: Thief wants to try a gank -> stealth -> try gank -> stealth + mobility -> decide if they wana coninue fight or leave all while protected by stealth and mobility. kill or move to next fight. Next fight -> stealth -> try gank -> stealth + mobility -> decide again in safety.

Now lets assume they get a stun in before stealth or a hit on the thief. The thief has a few breaks so the stun doesnt stop them. The damage doesnt stop them unless its a 1 shot. The thief decides if they want to return or not. I see little chance to punish the thief in this rather typical play scenario.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

You sound 100% like you get carried by stealth.

You sound 100% like a player who just started playing in the past few years and never learned how to fight a thief.

Go try countering thief with mirage

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godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

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Posted

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Sure specifically, mesmer should get better access to force revealed on thief or thief should be more counterable by Mirage and other classes that lack it. So you could buff them with more revealed or you could nerf stealth either would work. which is what Im suggesting. Its super simple to comprehend unless you are a thief who relies so heavily on stealth in ones build that you cannot function I think people who cant make thief work without stealth suck at thief.

I'm unsure how you think a class relying on a core aspect of that class's gameplay (stealth for thief in this case) is some sort of crutch.

"Guardians rely on blocks, boons, and invulnerability sooooo much, we should reduce their access to those things and teach those players a lesson!"

Story exaple: Thief wants to try a gank -> stealth -> try gank -> stealth + mobility -> decide if they wana coninue fight or leave all while protected by stealth and mobility. kill or move to next fight. Next fight -> stealth -> try gank -> stealth + mobility -> decide again in safety.

Now lets assume they get a stun in before stealth or a hit on the thief. The thief has a few breaks so the stun doesnt stop them. The damage doesnt stop them unless its a 1 shot. The thief decides if they want to return or not. I see little chance to punish the thief in this rather typical play scenario.

You know, that's a great story and I've seen the light. I also now want thief to play exactly like a herp derp warrior. A thief shouldn't be allowed to approach enemies in stealth. They should have to walk right up to them and whisper softly in their ear "Hey, I'm here to fight you, but I can't do anything until you hit me first, or else it wouldn't be fair."

You should definitely be given the chance to demolish a thief immediately before he gets to even play the game, you're right.

If you didn't catch on, your story is silly and doesn't provide a reason to nerf thief, at all. All it does it display that, yes, thief doesn't play like some other classes where the opening move is to rush directly into your face. Because if thief does that, you can kill them instantly.

If ever just calmly approaches you, and you proceed to get killed. You're terrible. That's it. Of course they're going to use their class mechanics to eke out an advantage when entering a fight.

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godz raiden.2631

godz raiden.2631

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@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

You sound 100% like you get carried by stealth.

You sound 100% like a player who just started playing in the past few years and never learned how to fight a thief.

Go try countering thief with mirage

You're operating under the false assumption that every class and build should be able to fight, with ease, every other class and build. As Mirage struggles against Thief, Thief struggles against other builds and classes. Just because YOUR class and build can't measure up, doesn't mean another can't.

This is fallacious reasoning, get it out of this argument.

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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Posted

@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Sure specifically, mesmer should get better access to force revealed on thief or thief should be more counterable by Mirage and other classes that lack it. So you could buff them with more revealed or you could nerf stealth either would work. which is what Im suggesting. Its super simple to comprehend unless you are a thief who relies so heavily on stealth in ones build that you cannot function I think people who cant make thief work without stealth suck at thief.

I'm unsure how you think a class relying on a core aspect of that class's gameplay (stealth for thief in this case) is some sort of crutch.

"Guardians rely on blocks, boons, and invulnerability sooooo much, we should reduce their access to those things and teach those players a lesson!"

None of those things are comparable to stealth. That is a totally invalid equivalency. Here is why stealth causes detarget and allows the thief to choose when and how to stay in the fight or not. Block, Boons, Invuln on the other hand NONE of them provides a detarget or stops attacks in a way that allow them to just leave the fight without the oppoent following them. Only stealth can do that and perm stealth is fucking bullshit

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Moradorin.6217

Moradorin.6217

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Posted

@godz raiden.2631 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

You sound 100% like you get carried by stealth.

You sound 100% like a player who just started playing in the past few years and never learned how to fight a thief.

Go try countering thief with mirage

You're operating under the false assumption that every class and build should be able to fight, with ease, every other class and build. As Mirage struggles against Thief, Thief struggles against other builds and classes. Just because YOUR class and build can't measure up, doesn't mean another can't.

This is fallacious reasoning, get it out of this argument.

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

He's not the only person in this thread who has used examples of rarely used traits/skills as examples of why thief needs to be gutted. There was a video linked of a thief who put up a shadow refuge before going down and ended up in stealth for an eternity. When was the last time any decent thief used shadow refuge? That utility sitting no your skill bar is soooooo 2015.

Daredevil has 30% physical damage reduction , while DE have range+damageMake it so stealth behaves like other games . And both specs can use teleport skills such as Shadowstep or Death's Retreat , to avoid combat . If so reduce those cost to 3 , or cd to 10:)

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

You've linked a trait from spec that sees less use than the Warrior's Defense line and 2 things that are available to every class. Your response made no sense.

How do you know that ?

How do I know what? Which specs were overnerfed and don't see use? Or what is available to every class?...how do you NOT know that?

Are you like Ownen, there thief dont use stealth ?:P

Yes, I pretended thief doesn't use evades, this is exactly what I wrote, good job. :)Are you, by any chance, one of those people that instantly pm any thief that uses SINGLE stealth stack during a fight that they play "broken permastealth class"?

I am like you , i enjoy cercullar comments:)

I enjoy your inability to spell the word circular.

If you want stealth to be the same as other games why don't you... play those other games instead?

Why not nerf stealth and reduce the cost of s/d spells ?More survibility for thieves

Oh so you want every thief to be forced into s/d? What a boring, horrendous mentality to have.

Use 1 weapon for damage , use another for defenseShould we gut even more the teleport of the Shortbow ? Will it force people to use other weapons ?

As a thief who doesn't use shortbow now, or s/d, I'm failing to understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I should be using shortbow right now as my means of defense? Why are you so dead set on wanting thieves to be forced into s/d, shortbow builds?

You said , that if people want something nerfed , then they give a copensation .More active VISIBLE defense , is better for the thief

Invisible isn't invincible. Just because you can't see the thief doesn't mean you can't put him in the dumpster. Competent players understand they should save defensive utilities for the hardest hitting attacks from a thief, which come from stealth.

The reason stealth is so punishing via the thief class as a whole is because it punishes people who can't remain calm from the pressure that comes from an opponent entering and exiting stealth. Players with slower reaction times and who are tilted easily mentally always perform poorly against rogue classes in every game.

For some reason, I'm guessing players like you, even if you could see a thief evading all of your skills, would still lose those fights and end up coming right back here to ask for thieves to lose those same evade frames anyway. Thieves could be nerfed straight into the grave and you all would still want to take more from them. It's cool, I get it.

Edit: So if your compensation is more visible defense, what's your compensation for removing stealth attacks? Where's my offensive compensation too? Get real.

If by nerfing stealth means that Thief will go in the dumpster . Then it mean that stealth is overpowered and should get conpesation elsewhere :PIf s/d becomes problematic , we increase its cost/or reduce the damage if you stay longer than 10 sec . While for the first 10 sec is versa

You nerf core aspects of other classes too and they would go in the dumpster if you don't compensate. Now stop dodging the point, and give me specific details on how and where you would buff thieves to compensate stealth removal/nerfs.

Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

If you get found out , while stealth , you remain self transparrent , that allow you to land Backstab and the trait that offer 33% damage rduction while stealthAnd the traits remove cond while Stealth remains active :P

What is your proposal for active defenses ?: Go on, I'll wait while you do your best to get creative.

Is that... is that really your suggestion? So you don't have any actual compensation to damage or other ideas to give more defensive options to replace stealth? I'm assuming by transparent you're suggesting that a thief would have access to all the benefits of stealth, except for invisibility (dropping target). You know what, what do you even mean by found out? Like if I were to be hit by some random aoe spam that you throw all over the place you can see me now? What a horrible idea, if that's the case.

Also, I don't have to suggest anything, I'm not the one arguing for changes. Learn how to debate.

Your position: These things need to be changed:My position: I think they're fine as is, but if you changed them, what would you compensate them with.

Learn logic, please.

Then keep the permastealth, just like that exist in other games ,and bring other games backfire also ,like destealth and slow speed in stealth :P

Once again, if you want systems that are in place in other games, play those games, where those systems exist with the context of balance in those games.

This is Guild Wars 2. Stick the context of Guild Wars 2.

And this threads exist ,because stealth is problematic :)And othe games have found a way to counter-blanace it

Oh, really? Other games don't have players complaining about their respective rogue classes? Cool.Stealth is problematic to players who are too slow to deal with it, yeah. I'm not in favor of balancing that rewards average to below average players. If good players can use systems to their full extent, that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. It means they're better than you.

What class do you main, btw? I'm curious.

You sound 100% like you get carried by stealth.

You sound 100% like a player who just started playing in the past few years and never learned how to fight a thief.

Go try countering thief with mirage

You're operating under the false assumption that every class and build should be able to fight, with ease, every other class and build. As Mirage struggles against Thief, Thief struggles against other builds and classes. Just because YOUR class and build can't measure up, doesn't mean another can't.

This is fallacious reasoning, get it out of this argument.

Not sure how new to the game you are, however, Thief and Mirage are supposed to be hard counters of one another. So yea I do expect it should be able to deal with thief better cause Mirage tends to be a free kill for a good thief at present.

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