perm stealth

[kash.9213]

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:in neverwinter the thief have to build damage(so atacking, not hiding), if a thief "perma stealth" their initial atacks are meaningless.their version of "stabber atack" only trigger if atack was from behind and invisible at same time.....

i guess would be good anet look at this way.

This game also requires the thief to be behind the target and in Stealth for a Backstab.

I would keep that thief perma shut down with control, they'd never build enough. In this game the thief also has to build damage and attacking and landing hits is the way to land enough critical hits and to land control skills or critical hits to activate secondary modifiers like lifesteal on crit or interrupt. There's no way I'm killing anything right now while having enough Health without attacking and landing most of my hits for crits and secondaries, especially if I'm on my DE building up Malice.

[Caedmon.6798]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Most of the complaints coming from people about "perm stealth" and "Thief is op" is coming from baddies running in groups getting supported by forever heals/blocks/reflects/condi cleanses. But if they do get picked out,THIEF IS OP!!!!!! While they run away in a straight line popping all their defensive utils and not bothering to counter back. Get your game up instead. Stop relying on others to save your kitten.

FYI Most good thieves running solo have hundreds,if not thousands of hours experience on that class and having dueled every class on every spec and every build possible. If you aint up to that task,stop complaining. Otherwise learn how to counter because it can Easily be shut down.

Most thieves defending perma stealth are baddies who cant survive and get kills without it. Only some builds can counter it. Others just chase it around for 5 minutes before giving up because its not worth their time to fight. Doesnt matter if its wvw or spvp, high stealth uptime in combat is bad for the game.

No, high stealth uptime

in

combat is fine, it comes with a number of major weaknesses that make it actually not good right now. Its high stealth uptime

out of combat

thats the issue, hence why stealth should just get a cap. But even permastealth is bad, its just really annoying and shouldnt be in the game, but it is bad.

So are full sustain builds that run in groups and get carried by downed state,Hence roamers pick thief a class where they can escape from being ganked by these braindead groups. If stealth ever gets a nerf,watch all the roamers leave and you can have your 50 v 50 v 50 braindead monkey game.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@"Caedmon.6798" said:Most of the complaints coming from people about "perm stealth" and "Thief is op" is coming from baddies running in groups getting supported by forever heals/blocks/reflects/condi cleanses. But if they do get picked out,THIEF IS OP!!!!!! While they run away in a straight line popping all their defensive utils and not bothering to counter back. Get your game up instead. Stop relying on others to save your kitten.

FYI Most good thieves running solo have hundreds,if not thousands of hours experience on that class and having dueled every class on every spec and every build possible. If you aint up to that task,stop complaining. Otherwise learn how to counter because it can Easily be shut down.

Perma Stealth paired with mobility is a problem. The ability to disengage and reengage at will is what most classes cannot do or afford to do. In a roaming situation against same skill level you will never be able to beat a thief that is just fact.

Sorry to say but ive beat loads of thieves on my warri in an 1on1 situation,it also depends on the player which most people seem to neglect. Some people bother dueling another spec to learn how to counter,and some rush to the forum to ask for nerfs.

Most people run in blobs or in groups of 5 - 10,but when they die to a thief in a situation like that it's because the spec is op,but Never because the other player is just better. Realize that some players have spend more time perfecting their spec as others did.

The ability to disengage and have such mobility and stealth is what makes the spec interesting because it plays very different as any other spec.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Many great suggestions from people who never played thief and want to see it destroyed,much wow.

d/p, s/d, s/p, p/d, staff, dont need high stealth uptime to be effective. Its only dumb gimmick builds like SA rifle DE and smoke field spamming bound DD that have completely 1 dimensional gameplay centered around constantly stealthing.

Because you dont understand the concept of stealth being needed for a rifle spec doesnt mean it needs to be nerfed.

FYI,Reflect and reveals are key.

I think its quite hilarious how in a blob game mode people cry about that single thief theyre unable to catch with their full sustain group.

[Salt Mode.3780]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Most of the complaints coming from people about "perm stealth" and "Thief is op" is coming from baddies running in groups getting supported by forever heals/blocks/reflects/condi cleanses. But if they do get picked out,THIEF IS OP!!!!!! While they run away in a straight line popping all their defensive utils and not bothering to counter back. Get your game up instead. Stop relying on others to save your kitten.

FYI Most good thieves running solo have hundreds,if not thousands of hours experience on that class and having dueled every class on every spec and every build possible. If you aint up to that task,stop complaining. Otherwise learn how to counter because it can Easily be shut down.

Perma Stealth paired with mobility is a problem. The ability to disengage and reengage at will is what most classes cannot do or afford to do. In a roaming situation against same skill level you will never be able to beat a thief that is just fact.

Sorry to say but ive beat loads of thieves on my warri in an 1on1 situation,it also depends on the player which most people seem to neglect. Some people bother dueling another spec to learn how to counter,and some rush to the forum to ask for nerfs.

Most people run in blobs or in groups of 5 - 10,but when they die to a thief in a situation like that it's because the spec is op,but Never because the other player is just better. Realize that some players have spend more time perfecting their spec as others did.

The ability to disengage and have such mobility and stealth is what makes the spec interesting because it plays very different as any other spec.

I have beaten thieves as well that doesnt prove or justify anything and im playing a mesmer. As well as I did say in a 1 v 1 situation of the same skill level a thief will almost always win, so I guess you neglected to read that part as well.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Most of the complaints coming from people about "perm stealth" and "Thief is op" is coming from baddies running in groups getting supported by forever heals/blocks/reflects/condi cleanses. But if they do get picked out,THIEF IS OP!!!!!! While they run away in a straight line popping all their defensive utils and not bothering to counter back. Get your game up instead. Stop relying on others to save your kitten.

FYI Most good thieves running solo have hundreds,if not thousands of hours experience on that class and having dueled every class on every spec and every build possible. If you aint up to that task,stop complaining. Otherwise learn how to counter because it can Easily be shut down.

Perma Stealth paired with mobility is a problem. The ability to disengage and reengage at will is what most classes cannot do or afford to do. In a roaming situation against same skill level you will never be able to beat a thief that is just fact.

Sorry to say but ive beat loads of thieves on my warri in an 1on1 situation,it also depends on the player which most people seem to neglect. Some people bother dueling another spec to learn how to counter,and some rush to the forum to ask for nerfs.

Most people run in blobs or in groups of 5 - 10,but when they die to a thief in a situation like that it's because the spec is op,but Never because the other player is just better. Realize that some players have spend more time perfecting their spec as others did.

The ability to disengage and have such mobility and stealth is what makes the spec interesting because it plays very different as any other spec.

I have beaten thieves as well that doesnt prove or justify anything and im playing a mesmer. As well as I did say in a 1 v 1 situation of the same skill level a thief will almost always win, so I guess you neglected to read that part as well.

Thief will Not almost,always win. It depends if the other player has knowledge on how to beat a thief,most just dont.

But saying you do beat thieves while still in support of a nerf to thieves doesnt make much sense at all.

[Salt Mode.3780]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Most of the complaints coming from people about "perm stealth" and "Thief is op" is coming from baddies running in groups getting supported by forever heals/blocks/reflects/condi cleanses. But if they do get picked out,THIEF IS OP!!!!!! While they run away in a straight line popping all their defensive utils and not bothering to counter back. Get your game up instead. Stop relying on others to save your kitten.

FYI Most good thieves running solo have hundreds,if not thousands of hours experience on that class and having dueled every class on every spec and every build possible. If you aint up to that task,stop complaining. Otherwise learn how to counter because it can Easily be shut down.

Perma Stealth paired with mobility is a problem. The ability to disengage and reengage at will is what most classes cannot do or afford to do. In a roaming situation against same skill level you will never be able to beat a thief that is just fact.

Sorry to say but ive beat loads of thieves on my warri in an 1on1 situation,it also depends on the player which most people seem to neglect. Some people bother dueling another spec to learn how to counter,and some rush to the forum to ask for nerfs.

Most people run in blobs or in groups of 5 - 10,but when they die to a thief in a situation like that it's because the spec is op,but Never because the other player is just better. Realize that some players have spend more time perfecting their spec as others did.

The ability to disengage and have such mobility and stealth is what makes the spec interesting because it plays very different as any other spec.

I have beaten thieves as well that doesnt prove or justify anything and im playing a mesmer. As well as I did say in a 1 v 1 situation of the same skill level a thief will almost always win, so I guess you neglected to read that part as well.

Thief will Not almost,always win. It depends if the other player has knowledge on how to beat a thief,most just dont.

But saying you do beat thieves while still in support of a nerf to thieves doesnt make much sense at all.

Just because I can beat thieves doesnt mean thieves arent a problem still. Just like condi mirage just because I can beat it doesnt mean it wasn't a problem back then with 2 dodges. You cannot define a class non problematic because you have no issues fighting it.

[biofrog.1568]

So tell me how 25 seconds of stealth while downed is 'fair'?

[Junkpile.7439]

Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

[godz raiden.2631]

@avey.4201 said:When leaving stealth you should be given 2.5-3 seconds of reveal, thief can burst, and reenter stealth faster then you can complete dodging their attack, used to spend 5 minutes repeatedly dodging DE shots as good luck casting DH F1 on a thief in stealth.

When invulnerability ends you should be given a 15 stack vulnerability debuff and be unable to cast a block or have aegis applied to you for 2.5-3 seconds.

[kash.9213]

@Junkpile.7439 said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

Poking you from stealth is dumb and you wont die from that Edit: unless I was condi and you were glass with no cleans. I'll sustain and use Control on you and hopefully you will help me take yourself down from secondary modifiers. I can't spam evades either, it's costly and I need to have them when I actually need them or I need the resource for other stuff, like poking you because I don't have a lot of the mitigation other players will have. You don't need a lot of passive healing, you need thorns.

[LetoII.3782]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Perm stealth? Is stealth so op now it lets you use a hair style kit on other players?

It was awful.One gave me cornrows last week and I'm a blonde D:

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Perm stealth? Is stealth so op now it lets you use a hair style kit on other players?

It was awful.One gave me cornrows last week and I'm a blonde D:

If skinny jeans became a thing blonde cornrows could work.

[Caedmon.6798]

@Junkpile.7439 said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Junkpile.7439 said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

2 evades, Cmon man u new to these forums? U should kno thief has perma everything lol.

[Voltekka.2375]

Ah, yes, thief mains defending their op stealth and mobility.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@"biofrog.1568" said:So tell me how 25 seconds of stealth while downed is 'fair'?

Honestly, this is a better argument for ele needing a reveal skill than anything. You downed the thief inside his own refuge at 0:23, look at the health, you know the AoE hit right after he stealthed, and you can hear him shout "assistance!" (asura, only says that when ressing) at 0:30 meaning he had burnt his downed port and stealth and was beginning to res. If you had a reveal or an AoE knockback to knock him out of the radius of refuge you'd have won there and then.

In other words, if you nerf the stealth, you'd have to buff the thief because you were winning despite the stealth. What you ought to do next time that happens is move away from where he went down, mount up, and leave him to it. If he chases, you'll see him mount or burn his initiative in shortbow 5. If not, you win, and in either case you get more time for key utilities to come off cooldown.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:Most of the complaints coming from people about "perm stealth" and "Thief is op" is coming from baddies running in groups getting supported by forever heals/blocks/reflects/condi cleanses. But if they do get picked out,THIEF IS OP!!!!!! While they run away in a straight line popping all their defensive utils and not bothering to counter back. Get your game up instead. Stop relying on others to save your kitten.

FYI Most good thieves running solo have hundreds,if not thousands of hours experience on that class and having dueled every class on every spec and every build possible. If you aint up to that task,stop complaining. Otherwise learn how to counter because it can Easily be shut down.

Most thieves defending perma stealth are baddies who cant survive and get kills without it. Only some builds can counter it. Others just chase it around for 5 minutes before giving up because its not worth their time to fight. Doesnt matter if its wvw or spvp, high stealth uptime in combat is bad for the game.

No, high stealth uptime

in

combat is fine, it comes with a number of major weaknesses that make it actually not good right now. Its high stealth uptime

out of combat

thats the issue, hence why stealth should just get a cap. But even permastealth is bad, its just really annoying and shouldnt be in the game, but it is bad.

So are full sustain builds that run in groups and get carried by downed state,Hence roamers pick thief a class where they can escape from being ganked by these braindead groups. If stealth ever gets a nerf,watch all the roamers leave and you can have your 50 v 50 v 50 braindead monkey game.

I would ask for less aoe stlealths skills mainly remove it from scrappers, and leave thief stealth alone, issue is how the game handles stealth, and stealth is quite borked up due how server and clients notice to render it.Note.. those full sustain builds exist:

• due how boons work and who everything or almost everything end in boon.
• minstrell stats were created in a powercreep age (ministrel stats need a update maybe less toughness for something else or remove VIT for precision)
• They still have access to aoe stealths due the ammount of ministrell scrappers.

When im dueling a player that is actually by my side IRL and his thief appears more time unstealthed in his screen than mine.. yeah its how the netcode+ping+ some minor desync, all together takes in effect .. not much to do, rather Anet should make stealth a more soloist mechanics due how game borks easilly.

There are some boons and mechanics that Anet should at least leave those to a specific class, it would be easier to balance and would not reach to lvl's where it shows the limits of the engine itself, it would avoid to make those classes loose identity over time wich atm is what gw2 class system feels

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Gracehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Staminahttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew

[godz raiden.2631]

@Voltekka.2375 said:Ah, yes, thief mains defending their op stealth and mobility.

Thieves should have no defensive measures to use whatsoever, I agree with you. All Gas. No Brakes. Let's do this. Remove stealth and mobility. Buff thief damage. Every skill that uses initiative gets damage increased by 500% as a baseline.

Man, players like you have wonderful ideas and I'm glad you're part of the balance team.

[Sobx.1758]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Stamina

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

[godz raiden.2631]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Stamina

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

That post is just one of many examples of a player who has no business being taken seriously.

[Voltekka.2375]

@godz raiden.2631 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Ah, yes, thief mains defending their op stealth and mobility.

Thieves should have no defensive measures to use whatsoever, I agree with you. All Gas. No Brakes. Let's do this. Remove stealth and mobility. Buff thief damage. Every skill that uses initiative gets damage increased by 500% as a baseline.

Man, players like you have wonderful ideas and I'm glad you're part of the balance team.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote, so much putting words in my mouth, no reply is needed. Good day

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@godz raiden.2631 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Ah, yes, thief mains defending their op stealth and mobility.

Thieves should have no defensive measures to use whatsoever, I agree with you. All Gas. No Brakes. Let's do this. Remove stealth and mobility. Buff thief damage. Every skill that uses initiative gets damage increased by 500% as a baseline.

Man, players like you have wonderful ideas and I'm glad you're part of the balance team.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote, so much putting words in my mouth, no reply is needed. Good day

I kno right, he assumed ud want compensation given to thief for the gutting of stealth and mobility lol silliness, how u gonna make teef free bags by doing that type of nonsense emiright?

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Stamina

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

Someone said , that thief can dodge spammWhile the other , say it has 2 dodges .I link the things use for the dodge spammWhat is the purpose of our conversation ? :no_mouth:

@godz raiden.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Junkpile.7439" said:Problem is that you need passive healing against thief. If your all heal comes from healing skill thief just poke you from stealth until you die or you get some lucky crit that thief fail to dodge. They rarely fail to dodge because they seems to spam evade too like no tomorrow.

2 whole evades on De , Much wow.

Lets make it , so they dont benefit from :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Stamina

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Orrian_Truffle_and_Meat_Stew

Acrobatics btwVigor class specific buff btwClass specific food effect I guess too btw

What is this post even supposed to be? :no_mouth:

That post is just one of many examples of a player who has no business being taken seriously.

Hm:P