Enough wasting time, roll back the 02/25/2020 changes now

[TheBravery.9615]

https://i.imgur.com/G2SeNJX.png

 

This is so stupid.

 

 

Rage. Stun your target and stun yourself. Gain adrenaline and extend berserk duration if you hit. This skill removes all stability and deals increased damage if stability was removed.

 

Damage: 3

 

OH YEAH 5 DAMAGE INSTEAD OF 3

 

Who's the brilliant mastermind behind this?

[Zee.1294]

This is the only game in MMO history where warrior do no damage so is like this.... if someone smack  you with a hammer  they stun you but do no damage ..... you see what i mean?.... This guys are really out of touch with reality ,made warrior support ballerina . Dont worry ..the cheerleaders will tell you to roll another class!

[Kodama.6453]

The change to blanket remove all damage from CC skills was pretty dumb, yeah. There are so many skills which already had counterplay and weaknesses elsewhere to justify them having damage and CC and with the damage removed, they just became useless.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

At this point Headbutt is better used for the stun break synergies only...

 

But yeah it's funny that an offensive Elite skill deals practically no dmg. Big brain move there 🤨

[Blocki.4931]

CC is CC, not a nuke, evade, stun and mobility. They have been consistent with this at least. If anything, you should complain about stances being worthless for over a year stating they would be "reworked soon".

[crewthief.8649]

9 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

https://i.imgur.com/G2SeNJX.png

 

This is so stupid.

 

 

Rage. Stun your target and stun yourself. Gain adrenaline and extend berserk duration if you hit. This skill removes all stability and deals increased damage if stability was removed.

 

Damage: 3

 

OH YEAH 5 DAMAGE INSTEAD OF 3

 

Who's the brilliant mastermind behind this?

It is amazing that an elite (clearly originally intended to punish stability) got swept up in the CC changes without the “stab punishment” piece being taken into account. And it has just been left in that state for over a year. Yet they have the time, resources, and inclination to rework resistance...

 

 Why not extend the stun if target has stab? Or grant stability? Or give a % increase to damage for a certain number of seconds? Or any number of creative solutions that give the elite more value? NOPE, leave it the same!

Edited May 18, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Blocki.4931 said:

CC is CC, not a nuke, evade, stun and mobility. They have been consistent with this at least. If anything, you should complain about stances being worthless for over a year stating they would be "reworked soon".

It’s still an elite. Why not supplement that loss in damage with something else worthwhile as a means to punish stability (as it was intended to do)? Does it have to be one or the other? Can’t this be unacceptable and the state of those 300 second traits also be unacceptable?

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

5 hours ago, Blocki.4931 said:

CC is CC, not a nuke, evade, stun and mobility. They have been consistent with this at least. If anything, you should complain about stances being worthless for over a year stating they would be "reworked soon".

The problem is that they haven't been consistent with them. There are still stuns that do damage in competitive modes.

[Telgum.6071]

Let me show you a more tragic tale...

 

 

[cryorion.9532]

So Head Butt had self stun since it's addition to the game, as sort of trade-off. That made sense. But then they changed animation for better counterplay. It wasn't nice but ok, first animation was fast and as the elite had pretty low cd, it was understandable.

But then self stability removal AND damage removal... why should Berserker get punished by using elite skill and lose all stacks of stability? While doing extremely low damage? And also getting self cced? Was this done for Head Butt -> Outrage combo? We see how well this works in PvP/WvW...

 

No damage is understandable if we have the "cc skills do no damage" balance, but there is no place for stability removal. That is just useless overkill, a flawed and obsolete design.

 

Suggestion: remove own stability removal part from Head Butt so Berserker can normally retain stability like everyone else and prevent self stun if stability is present (you know, that is the purpose of stability after all).

To compensate inability to reliably use Outrage with Head Butt combo for increasing Berserk uptime, remove 5 second Berserk uptime bonus upon stunbreak from Outrage. Give Outrage an aoe attack that places short fire field on the ground (for example 1 second duration and it procs twice, applying 1 burning stack for each tick, 240/300 radius). If this aoe hits a target it will simply prolong Berserk by 5 seconds. In such case, Berserker can decide to either save the stunbreak or use it offensively and to prolong Berserk mode. The simplicity (how easy is to land this Outrage aoe) is intentional. However, PvE cooldown would have to be adjusted accordingly. Of course, there is plenty of other possibilities how to improve Outrage and Rage skills. But the general idea is to fix Head Butt and to make Outrage not be dependend on having to stunbreak to prolong Berserk mode. Because as we know, random stability can make it pretty inconsistent. And having complete stability removal on elite skill that already has drawbacks is not a great design, either.

[TheBravery.9615]

3 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

So Head Butt had self stun since it's addition to the game, as sort of trade-off. That made sense. But then they changed animation for better counterplay. It wasn't nice but ok, first animation was fast and as the elite had pretty low cd, it was understandable.

But then self stability removal AND damage removal... why should Berserker get punished by using elite skill and lose all stacks of stability? While doing extremely low damage? And also getting self cced? Was this done for Head Butt -> Outrage combo? We see how well this works in PvP/WvW...

 

No damage is understandable if we have the "cc skills do no damage" balance, but there is no place for stability removal. That is just useless overkill, a flawed and obsolete design.

 

Suggestion: remove own stability removal part from Head Butt so Berserker can normally retain stability like everyone else and prevent self stun if stability is present (you know, that is the purpose of stability after all).

To compensate inability to reliably use Outrage with Head Butt combo for increasing Berserk uptime, remove 5 second Berserk uptime bonus upon stunbreak from Outrage. Give Outrage an aoe attack that places short fire field on the ground (for example 1 second duration and it procs twice, applying 1 burning stack for each tick, 240/300 radius). If this aoe hits a target it will simply prolong Berserk by 5 seconds. In such case, Berserker can decide to either save the stunbreak or use it offensively and to prolong Berserk mode. The simplicity (how easy is to land this Outrage aoe) is intentional. However, PvE cooldown would have to be adjusted accordingly. Of course, there is plenty of other possibilities how to improve Outrage and Rage skills. But the general idea is to fix Head Butt and to make Outrage not be dependend on having to stunbreak to prolong Berserk mode. Because as we know, random stability can make it pretty inconsistent. And having complete stability removal on elite skill that already has drawbacks is not a great design, either.

headbutt can be fixed simply by undoing the 02/25/2020 update. It was a totally asinine design decision.

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

headbutt can be fixed simply by undoing the 02/25/2020 update. It was a totally asinine design decision.

Head Butt yes, but not Outrage requiring being cced to prolong Berserk by 5 seconds. Random stability makes any PvE rotation that uses Outrage a nightmare. Anet got themselves into their own trap. Sad thing is that it takes them way too long to do something about it...

[nthmetal.9652]

On 5/18/2021 at 5:44 AM, Zee.1294 said:

This is the only game in MMO history where warrior do no damage so is like this.... if someone smack  you with a hammer  they stun you but do no damage ..... you see what i mean?.... This guys are really out of touch with reality ,made warrior support ballerina . Dont worry ..the cheerleaders will tell you to roll another class!

No, this was kind of really necessary and by itself isn't a problem. CC is an insanely powerful tool, and the way it is implemented in GW2, it really locks whole groups of players out of action, unless you have adrenaline. Being taken away the ability to act is one of the worst things, that you can do to a player, design wise. So it was badly necessary to counterbalance that.

 

However the change was incomplete. The redesign should have taken into account the special roles of:

1. burst powers
2. elite powers

The change also should have forced a redesign of connected traits and powers, which did not happen, thus leaving the players in competitive game modes hanging with a half-assed solution. Head Butt is a good example, but so is Forceful Hammer in the Strength traitline.

 

But then again, we suffer from other misdesigns too. AoE spam is still superior to melee, and vastly superior to normal ranged projectiles, especially in WvW  big zerg fights. If CC needed to have been given this kind of treatment, why didn't ranged AoEs also get that kind of treatment? Sure, they got nerfed, but look at how much damage scourges still do.
If the designers think, that CC needs to be counterbalanced by a damage nerf, that's fine, but shouldn't then other utility powers also be treated to such a damage nerf? Why does spb loss aversion trait do next to no notable damage, while scourge shades / wells are still allowed to that, while you can't reflect them like ranged powers? Simply fiddling with the amount of targets and cooldowns is not going to solve that issue, because it will be countered by simply bringing more of that profession in.

Edited May 19, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[TheBravery.9615]

Imagine a kit where almost all attacks are all CC

 

oh wait..

 

Rampage

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

Imagine a kit where almost all attacks are all CC

 

oh wait..

 

Rampage

You know what? Remove the swiftness, stab, damage reduction, movement impairing condition reduction, and stat boosts and turn it into an actual kit with 0 CD.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You know what? Remove the swiftness, stab, damage reduction, movement impairing condition reduction, and stat boosts and turn it into an actual kit with 0 CD.

Now that wouldn't require me to always run physicals or gap closers. Which I like as a concept. Improves build crafting 10 times over. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 5/18/2021 at 1:08 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

Let me show you a more tragic tale...

 

 

borrowing your signature.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Now that wouldn't require me to always run physicals or gap closers. Which I like as a concept. Improves build crafting 10 times over. 

Yep. Would make warrior vastly more playable.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Do you think many people can stand up to warriors if they had their dmg back from the stuns? They still hurt a lot.

[Myror.7521]

Warrior is actually in a fine place all in all . Bad things are mechanics like blinds weekend aoes and somethings like that are actually too spamy ingame. Just simply remove some weekend /Blind from some skills and warrior would be in a better place

 

 

Edit: What i want to say warrior is actually one of the only classes that are dont be effected by overtuned mechanics. (and yes full counter isnt overtuned its a simple and ezy to evade mechanic just a learn to play around it issue in pvp mostly)

Edited May 20, 2021 by Pati.2438

[Aaron.1294]

Anet can easy fix warr by giving him some resistance to traits, esp since they made it a lot less valuable it should be a little bit more accesible.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

1 hour ago, Aaron.1294 said:

Anet can easy fix warr by giving him some resistance to traits, esp since they made it a lot less valuable it should be a little bit more accesible.

Mending/sigil of cleansing and brawlers recovery is quite a lot with out even trying to invest in condi clear/resolution/resistance 

[Ghos.1326]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:44 PM, Zee.1294 said:

This is the only game in MMO history where warrior do no damage so is like this.... if someone smack  you with a hammer  they stun you but do no damage ..... you see what i mean?.... This guys are really out of touch with reality ,made warrior support ballerina . Dont worry ..the cheerleaders will tell you to roll another class!

Actually, skills in WoW do small damage numbers like this too. So no, this is not the only game where Warrior does "no damage".

[Aaron.1294]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 I didn't mean every condi since resistance negates only CC condies. It's not like some classes can spam blind or weakness right...

[TheBravery.9615]

8 hours ago, Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

Do you think many people can stand up to warriors if they had their dmg back from the stuns? They still hurt a lot.

They don't necessarily have to return to what it was before, but its current damage is unacceptable. Don't tell me with a straight face that Headbutt is in a good place, where the tooltip says it would grant bonus 'damage' if stability is removed, when the base damage is like 5.