Purity of Purpose : 2s ICD per target

[Infusion.7149]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

LMAO, you want to turn gyros back into destructible minions and make them worthless again.

Making gyros destructible would indeed make them unplayable again and nobody should even consider that. I was testing scrapper way before the gyro changes and that is the number one problem before they were made into wells.

If you want to see how bad it would be in the current meta, just try to use function gyro (which still has the "minion" effect) in AoE.

[nthmetal.9652]

So. It is okay to nerf purity of purpose - condi-conversion uncapped is not okay.

But boon corruption uncapped is?

Anet logic at work.

Edited June 9, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[XenesisII.1540]

Yeah man they need to nerf well of corruption, null field, sand shades, and winds of disenchantment down to 1 pulse, 1 target, and 30 radius.

Edited June 9, 2021 by XenesisII.1540

[nthmetal.9652]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah man they need to nerf well of corruption, sand shades, and winds of disenchantment down to 1 pulse, 1 target, and 30 radius.

and yet - AND YET, if you play WvW: Scourges easily outstrip everyone else. AND they corrupt when they strip. And when they corrupt, their corrupt is not in an ICD. AND they deal considerable damage. Which cannot be reflected, due to being AoE. And since the AoEs pulse, and thus are persistent, they provide area denial. And they make chill and fear, so provide soft CC.

And they do most of that at range.

I am not even thinking about the application of barrier, which they also can bring, when discussing scourge balance.

 

They might have nerfed it. But not nearly enough to call this anywhere near balanced.

Edited June 9, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[XenesisII.1540]

You know you can step out of the red circle right?

[nthmetal.9652]

3 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You know you can step out of the red circle right?

You know that there will be an additional red cirlce beside that?

I mean if you go by that kind of thinking I could also say: You know that you don't have to apply conditions, so that scrappers have nothing to convert ...

[XenesisII.1540]

You also have a dodge bottom.

I know boon ballers have gotten lazy ignoring everything but I didn't think it was this bad.

Don't worry superspeed is also here to the rescue.

[nthmetal.9652]

Also compare these facts:

On Scourge you do AoE damage, and considerable damage. While providing top strips. And good soft CC. With area denial. While at range, so in "relative" safety, only being subjected to enemy ranged attacks most of the time.

 

On warrior, you deal next to AoE damage, and if so, it's PbAoE, not ranged AoE. If you provide CC you lose tons of damage. If you do damage, you do nothing else. You might strip, but once more, if you do so, you lose damage and you still can't keep up with scourged. You provide NO area denial except maybe with the bubble.

And you do all of that in melee, so you are subjected to all the attacks and their consequences, ranged and melee.

 

Yep, seems perfectly balanced. And it shows, as any look at ArcDPS will tell you.

[XenesisII.1540]

Yup perfectly balanced... other than you calling for yet more nerfs to strips...

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The Swiftness fix was needed; my Necro with max Boon Duration was listing 50sec Swiftness on Spectral Walk, but I could only get 30sec out of it, which was silly. Stacking limits shouldn't affect what a single skill can apply, otherwise the skill is underperforming.

 

I fear that now we should turn Superspeed into a boon and make it strippable. Otherwise, it'll be too strong. In fact that change could help counter zergs quite alot.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The Swiftness fix was needed; my Necro with max Boon Duration was listing 50sec Swiftness on Spectral Walk, but I could only get 30sec out of it, which was silly. Stacking limits shouldn't affect what a single skill can apply, otherwise the skill is underperforming.

 

I fear that now we should turn Superspeed into a boon and make it strippable. Otherwise, it'll be too strong. In fact that change could help counter zergs quite alot.

If limits shouldn't cut off duration from a skill, then they have to make the limit for superspeed higher.

 

If you are using bandage self (F1 healing skill with med kit), then you used to grant yourself 12 seconds of superspeed (5 seconds in AoE for using your healing skill and 7 seconds for yourself by using a healing toolbelt), but with the new limit it is cut down to 10 seconds.

 

So scrappers are losing 2 seconds of superspeed when using med kit because of the limit.

[Lazze.9870]

About time this busted trait got hit with the hammer.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Dediggefedde.4961]

7 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The Swiftness fix was needed; my Necro with max Boon Duration was listing 50sec Swiftness on Spectral Walk, but I could only get 30sec out of it, which was silly. Stacking limits shouldn't affect what a single skill can apply, otherwise the skill is underperforming.

Medkit-F1 gives 12s of self-superspeed. Except, it's only 10s. 😉

[Kodama.6453]

27 minutes ago, Dediggefedde.4961 said:

Medkit-F1 gives 12s of self-superspeed. Except, it's only 10s. 😉

Considering that Anet has a terrible track record to keep engi's trait interactions in mind, I am not surprised.

 

Literally every single time they made a change to a gadget, they forgot to change the gadgeteer version, too. LITERALLY. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

10 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Yeah man they need to nerf well of corruption, null field, sand shades, and winds of disenchantment down to 1 pulse, 1 target, and 30 radius.

Don't forget to add a damage reduction of 10% per hit too

[Custodio.6134]

to be honest: the PoP nerf was a step into the right direction (and yes, i am a support-scrapper main). 
this trait has been way too strong for years now and is one of the main reasons why condition-based builds were extremely unpopular (or even useless) in large scale. Every Support-Scrapper was actually happy when the enemy pulled Chilling Fog in a keep, because: "hey, free alacrity".  Not even the changes to resistance/resolution could change that, so maybe actually approaching PoP is one step to kind of making condition-based builds viable (although i still doubt that this is currently the case, didn´t do any tests yet). 

[Dediggefedde.4961]

19 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

To be honest: the PoP nerf was a step into the right direction [...]

Every Support-Scrapper was actually happy when the enemy pulled Chilling Fog in a keep, because: "hey, free alacrity"

For one thing, I agree that PoP was too strong, especially against burning (converts to aegis).

However, if you have a scrapper per 1-2 groups, chilling fog still gives you permanent alacrity. Just not stacking up for a minute.

 

However, since the cleanse-count was not nerfed (unless you count vulnerability converted to protection triggering anticorrosion plating) I doubt condition-based setups will fare much better now.

 

What's bothering me, though, is that arenanet argued that PoP was nerfed since it was the dominant choice in Alchemy Grandmastery.

I don't see anyone using iron-blooded (on a minstrel-heal-scrapper!) or HGH (with only EG-5)...

 

I mean... minstrel-stats, iron-blooded, protection injection, adaptive armor, damage dampener, overshield, soothing detonations, backpack-regenerator, durability runes... then you're basically in spectator-mode. ^^

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dediggefedde.4961

[nthmetal.9652]

3 hours ago, Dediggefedde.4961 said:

However, since the cleanse-count was not nerfed (unless you count vulnerability converted to protection triggering anticorrosion plating) I doubt condition-based setups will fare much better now.

agreed. But we can't have it any other way. As long as conditions get basically blasted out constantly, your groups will need constant cleanse as counterplay, otherwise conditions would just be easy win.
If that is to change, the whole construct of applying conditions and cleansing them needs to be reworked, so that on both ends of the game, skillful play is rewarded.

Conditions would need to be a lot more powerful and lasting, in turn application would need to be much rarer. Then cleanses could also be a lot rarer.

Edited June 10, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[Sugar Min.5834]

• Purity of Purpose: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 2 seconds per target.

 

Just to be certain. The 2 seconds ICD is only on the condi conversions, the cleansing part has no ICD right?

[Voltekka.2375]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:02 AM, nthmetal.9652 said:

Also compare these facts:

On Scourge you do AoE damage, and considerable damage. While providing top strips. And good soft CC. With area denial. While at range, so in "relative" safety, only being subjected to enemy ranged attacks most of the time.

 

On warrior, you deal next to AoE damage, and if so, it's PbAoE, not ranged AoE. If you provide CC you lose tons of damage. If you do damage, you do nothing else. You might strip, but once more, if you do so, you lose damage and you still can't keep up with scourged. You provide NO area denial except maybe with the bubble.

And you do all of that in melee, so you are subjected to all the attacks and their consequences, ranged and melee.

 

Yep, seems perfectly balanced. And it shows, as any look at ArcDPS will tell you.

Scourge "considerable damage". Huh. No.

Strips have been nerfed over and over. Nerf em even more. Huh.

The boonball spews Boons at a much faster rate than scourge can strip. 

I outstrip scourges regularly on reaper. Should reaper also get nerfs.

I am honestly surprised PoP stayed in its broken state for so long, making all other potential condicleansers useless.

 

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

• Purity of Purpose: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 2 seconds per target.

 

Just to be certain. The 2 seconds ICD is only on the condi conversions, the cleansing part has no ICD right?

Yes the trait itself does not cleanse, it only apply conversion instead cleansing. 

 

The devs took their sweet time with this one thou, and i don't think superspeed will be enough to keep scrapper in squad if the nerfs seems to be very harsh thou . 

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

The devs took their sweet time with this one thou, and i don't think superspeed will be enough to keep scrapper in squad if the nerfs seems to be very harsh thou . 

 

Superspeed and stealth access, together with superior healing and cleanse numbers is and will be enough for scrappers to remain permanently meta until Anet does a real meta shake-up. This trait was just the fat icing on the cake that made it completely busted, even with an ICD it's still a very good trait that compliments the build really well.

 

Hopefully it will have an dent on the boonballs where people just stack up with larger numbers and tank everything, but scrapper itself is going nowhere.

 

Edit: oh, I almost forgot they pump out quickness now as well.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Zikory.6871]

7 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Hopefully it will have an dent on the boonballs where people just stack up with larger numbers and tank everything, but scrapper itself is going nowhere.

 

Edit: oh, I almost forgot they pump out quickness now as well.

It won't. 50/50 have so many people it doesn't matter and 25-35 never relied on it. 

[XenesisII.1540]

I like how scrappers are trying to undervaluing themselves to escape the nerf hammer.

So who's going to replace them in squads? Since you know they provide mass stealth, healing, condition cleanse, condition convert, superspeed, quickness. How many other classes would you have to bring into a squad to replace what even one scrapper brings?

 

Meanwhile we have over half the specs useless and not welcomed for zergs, sure just roll in more firebrand tempest druids mesmers to replace scrappers cause they totally useless now! gtfo with the sob story.

 

[God.2708]

8 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

So who's going to replace them in squads? Since you know they provide mass stealth, healing, condition cleanse, condition convert, superspeed, quickness. How many other classes would you have to bring into a squad to replace what even one scrapper brings?

 

I mean, isn't that the reason this nerf is poorly placed?

Scrappers cleanse at ~the strength of tempests and firebrands(when specced to cleanse). But neither of those can give superspeed, stealth, or heal at close to that level. Meanwhile power scrappers can also give superspeed and stealth at similar levels, but nothing else can. So unless you give others ample superspeed and/or stealth (in a meaningful manner) or drastically nerf the scrappers ability to do those things, scrapper will still be a primary party slot. Nerfing PoP is just crowd pleasing and does nothing to impact play in any way except make it look like you're 'nerfing' boon balls. But no intelligent zerg relied on RNG boons to survive anyway.