Can't decide on a class for solo that isn't necro

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Think I did the entire game in soldiers with my ele to begin with. 

 

I boosted my ele as my first character and that gives exotic soldiers which isn't bad. But yeah basically. I think the closest a new player will get to trailblazer is prolly celestial. Which is still decent for a solo ele build. Until they get a full set of bladed armour from HoT content. But by the time u have a full set of that you will have finished HoT. Lol

 

 

My point was never elementalist can't do open world content. I argued against trailblazer ele being the easiest option to solo content with. And provided context to why. 

 

I found the game far easier to solo with my revenant, thief necro and ranger. If we are looking at straight forward options to engage with open world content. 

 

I now use a hybrid weaver build to solo all content and I do fine. My death count was from early days of be beginning the game and learning elementalist. 

 

I boosted all my chars to 80 realistically. So the entry point was identical. 

 

Every class can do open world, there's not a class that's bad at, same with all content, but when we are looking at a straight forward class to do open world with ele isn't the top "recommendation". Which was my initial point. 

 

He said he didn't like the fact he had to uphold things like aegis with his guardian. But he felt too lazy on his necro. Which means offering him a class which is considered to have a higher skill floor then both of those by the majority of players seems misguided at best to me. 

 

Ranger would be the obvious recommendation. 

 

It has great solo ability. And good access to some easier support builds if he did look at getting into groups down the line.

 

Soulbeast offers a higher skill floor specc to truly master to feed into that feeling of progression to prevent the feeling of "lazyness" 

 

And with content he feels it's getting hard he can fall back on a pet to take the damage. 

 

That and alot of access to long range good power options to do metas with. At very little risk during times of being lower geared. 

I wasn't using trailblazer i was using fire air and either earth for defense or water for cleanses and if you go scepter it works well enough without risking your life in melee range, unlike dagger/Warhorn or something alike, which is far riskier.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

I wasn't using trailblazer i was using fire air and either earth for defense or water for cleanses and if you go scepter it works well enough without risking your life in melee range, unlike dagger/Warhorn or something alike, which is far riskier.

 

I use hybrid weaver with grieving. But it's not recommendable due to that stat not being easy to obtain. 

 

U can't buy that from TP without buying the 400g+ stuff that comes without chosen stats 

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

: I know all Ele mains are really (b***)hurt right now, and I agree they're not in a very good state right now, but this has nothing to de with open world! I actually have the opinion that ANet should not ever balance towards open world, they should balance to the PvE endgame, PvP and WvW

 

I ain't b***hurt. I ain't saying ele is terrible in open world either. What I'm stating is

 

I just don't think eles the answer to a straight forward build able to solo all open world content including champion monsters group events and hero points espically in HoT. 

 

More to the point where he says upholding aegis is annoying to play guardian with. 

 

I wouldn't recommend elementalist due to its solo builds also be about frequently activating certain attunements to generate defensive buffs. 

 

Which puts it on a similar requirement to guardian. Where you circulate earth attunement to keep refreshing protection duration. 

 

For example a really good way to solo with ele would be circulating around earth into fire into water into earth into fire. This keeps uptime on regen and protection which offers lots of defense. But if someone's asking for a class that doesn't need to do this. 

 

I don't even agree eles in a bad place realistically. No class is. It's not as good as some options but 40k DPS is still miles above what you need for any content the game offers.

. 

 

 It has knock downs. 

It has access to chill. 

It has access to all defensive boons. 

It has a channeled invuln that uncan use things like primordial wave while pulses AoE DMG while u take 0 damage

Water has a evade which repositions you. 

You have ranged attack denial 

You have earth which can put you in the ground to evade attacks

You have utilities which make you invuln. 

 

But these require you to swap in and out of different elements constantly to uphold. And CDs to mentally track. 

 

Elementalist isnt bad. It just doesn't offer passive or natural defense. .

 

I can AoE pulse plenty dead by going in invuln with earth activating primordial pulses then swiftly swap to fire and burn everything while im invuln. U can even go earth into fire to then use lava skin before going invuln. This allows a double burn pulse while invuln.

 

Thief can do what ele does. With 0 weapon swap with a rotation that uses 1 button and auto attack chains. While having teleport and built in evades. It can also take traits which make its dodges do loads of damage. Which means u can kill everything by evade spamming the entire fights. 

 

That ain't me saying you can't solo the game with Ele cause u 100% can. But there are defintly easier methods to solo the game. There's a good reason why I've considered to quit my ele several times and it snot because it feels "underpowered". It's because it feels sooo much more relaxing playing the game on my thief.

 

And even if we do take into consideration to end game balancing. In raids/fractals eles reputation is perma downstate lol, because most eles do nothing other then continuously die. 

 

Once u go into raid builds eles aren't rly balanced like other classes other classes can take a few hits and not die. Ele will die the moment it starts being swung at in a raid build. 

 

Whenever I see Weavers in groups someone's talking about how they do nothing but continuously die. Sadly that's the rep of ele. And likely the largest roadblock the proffession has. If all people see is eles continuously dying left right and centre they won't beleive it's capable of anything. 

 

Now as I listed above. Ele has plenty of access to survive. But eles balanced on active defense which means it's passive defense is much lower to balance it (and rightly so). 

 

Eles would be immortal if you gave them equalised passive defense. So that's in no way a complaint. But ele raid builds have like 11k hp. I think the only other proffession that is that low defense it'd be that condi Deadeye DPS build that came out after 11th may patch. 

 

I'm simply saying I think both thief and Ranger are far better recommendations realistically. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

Ele is not going to be an easy choice for a player new to the game, or even the class. That's not a debate.

 

Also, if considering soloing any OW content, Ele is definitely not the easiest class to do that with. That accolade will go to Staff Mirage. 

 

Basically, Ele is a class that will not meet the 'easy' requirement for ANY content in OW. Personally, I rank it near the bottom of OW capable, simply because its mechanics are built for element swapping for best performance, which is not inline with 'easy' play, right from gathering all the way to soloing Bounties.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Agrippa.1693]

Have you clicked this link ... I mean if that's not easy ... then, what is??? The guy isnt even dodging ... doesn't do a perfect rotation and is just facetanking most of the dmg ... and this is before the Elements of Rage buff ... and btw Avatar of Balthazar is considered to be hard content by most players, let alone beginners.

 

Really, people can complain all they like about the difficulty of classes, but when it comes to open world: EVERY single class has their beginner friendly options available!

[Sobx.1758]

On 6/13/2021 at 12:22 AM, Hobothesis.6420 said:

       I had a reaper and it made me lazy af and then I quit like 9 months ago and now I'm back. When I say solo I mean be able to go into like HoT/PoF content and not have to rely on other people to help me kill some mob. Guard seems like the 'go to' but it seems a little complicated having to time blinds or your aegis, and what does a firebrand do if you come across a fire immune mob? War seems straight forward but also seems like if you miss one of your cooldowns you can straight up die. Mesmer going mirage seems fun as I watched vids of the staff mirages just rolling around (and IIRC going sword as a mes you feel like a duelist which is cool). I'd also like to be able to do some pvp as I never tried it out, going after achievements for completions, etc

I understand you can have multiple characters and everyone does, but I'd like to settle down on one for the time being and once I understand what classes would be good for this or that fractal and the like move forward. Everyone has that 'one' main they always play and I just overthink everything. I also think getting my necro to 80, then immediately hopping on a point train to get the reaper just burnt me out as I quit shortly after that.

You might want to check some "low intensity" builds:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_LI_Hammer 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Revenant_-_LI_Torment

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_LI_Minion_Scourge

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_LI_Earth_Tempest

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_LI_Defense_Core

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

Have you clicked this link ... I mean if that's not easy ... then, what is??? The guy isnt even dodging ... doesn't do a perfect rotation and is just facetanking most of the dmg ... and this is before the Elements of Rage buff ... and btw Avatar of Balthazar is considered to be hard content by most players, let alone beginners.

 

Really, people can complain all they like about the difficulty of classes, but when it comes to open world: EVERY single class has their beginner friendly options available!

That has more to do with using trailblazer gear. You can be just as tanky on scourge, scrapper, or renegade and not have to run trailblazers. If you run staff on mirage you essentially don't get hit in PVE. If you ran trailblazer on firebrand or even core guard you lose much less DPS since you don't have to spec for more than one damaging condition which is why burning guardians are a thing in PVP with far less counterplay than burning weaver.

Easy doesn't mean swapping weapons 10 times in a minute and using all utilities.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

Have you clicked this link ... I mean if that's not easy ... then, what is??? The guy isnt even dodging ... doesn't do a perfect rotation and is just facetanking most of the dmg ... and this is before the Elements of Rage buff ... and btw Avatar of Balthazar is considered to be hard content by most players, let alone beginners.

 

Really, people can complain all they like about the difficulty of classes, but when it comes to open world: EVERY single class has their beginner friendly options available!

 

The video your linking isn't a beginner. 

 

it's a dude stacking a ton of effects from potions and mount buffs to absorb the first 90% of the fights damage

 

Also the fact he was maintaining buffs 100% and executed his burst perfectly proves that wasn't a poor example of a rotation either. 

 

You have a warped idea of what a beginner is. Because

 

If you have to know what set to wear, it's not beginner friendly

if you need knowledge of mount buffs and more it's not beginner friendly

 

Beginner friendly means a dude with 0 research and brand new to the game it's combat mechanics and doesn't understand how things work

 

A beginner doesn't know trailblazer. A beginner won't know how to utilise runes. It wont know where to find builds. And it won't know how to use any of the effects shown in that video.

 

My mother was stuck on hearts and minds the last part of HoT story for months. Yet one shot it with a ranger. 

 

Why? Because my mother's elderly and doesn't have reflex levels nor any knowledge of how to play the game on the level that guy in the video can 

 

It's a outright lie to show that video and proclaim a beginner player would know that. On any level 

 

Lemme go video myself doing that fight and you will see what a new player actually looks like. Because last time I tried that fight I died before I got him below 90% I got one hit. 

 

Why? Because I wasn't aware of all those effects he had like a 20k barrier on himself starting that fight lmfao. How many beginners do u see doing that stuff ,🤣

 

Even Ur average open world player wouldn't pull that off 

 

Without those effects without the potion and stacking the mount effect that dude woulda been one shot 

 

It's a speed runner and you beleive he isnt using any other effects.. this is misleading at best and a outright lie at worst. ..

 

Link actual new players doing this content. Or don't link at all. That's a long term veteran who theorycrafts perfection for speed running content not a new player. 

 

If I tried to mimic that I'd never manage it. Nor would any new player. The only reason I recognise what he's doing is because I have been heavily invested in learning ele. To a point where I spend alot of time watching pro eles and continuously asking questions to learn.

 

But that's beyond anything 99% of new players would do.. espically one with what the OP has asked for 

 

The fact you think a veteran speed runner is doing his rotation poorly is also pretty funny. Because he's not lol he's doing the rotation very well. However he's diverting from it to maximise barrier and his defensive buffs to absorb the damage. 

 

That dudes got 20k barrier and about 60% reduced incoming damage simultaniously. And is using several evade frames provided by Weavers kit. 

 

And as I said Weavers have access to these things. But again if you read what the OP has asked for these aren't things the OP wants to deal with. 

 

You ignore new player perspectives while proclaiming it's beginner friendly. There's litterally a thread full of people talking about rolling ele and rerolling because of these issues yes ele can shine in open world. However most new players don't wanna deal with the hoops you go through to make it shine and your ignoring that factor. 

 

Yes players should play what they enjoy most. And yes any class can work in all content. But proclaiming some beginner is gonna have all this stuff to hand and all this knowledge available is ridiculous. .

 

Thief can take the armour a boost puts him in and solo all content with 2 buttons with 0 requirement to read 20 abilities or understand buff management or attunement rotations. Nor learn what 25 abilities do. 

 

Thief can access evades and more all through 1 ability instead of 5. And don't need any set of armour or specific build to excel in open world content.

 

Thief can stealth dodge and get away from almost anything in the game. 

 

Rangers and necros have access to several pets with over 30,000 hp and taunts to take all aggression or worry away from the player. They also have a wider access to ranged weapons which increases the view and ability to see. 

 

Also thief has the easiest tagging builds as shortbows auto attack bounces and hits everything. 

 

Yes ele can do these things however require more effort then auto attacking to tag 15 monsters at range away from danger. 

 

Ele is not beginner friendly, that video isn't beginner friendly, expecting players to utilise half the things in that video isn't beginner friendly. 

 

That guy does alot more then you give him credit for we both know that. And no new player could replicate that gameplay. 

 

Your just in a mad persuit to justify telling new players to roll ele. And I am a new player who is playing ele. I am sticking to ele. But to pretend like I haven't had to read several guides learn a awful lot of things and spend time learning attunement rotations and how to uphold buffs etc etc to reduce incoming damage or utilise abilities to avoid AoEs while also damaging the target is a lie. 

 

Eles can shine Ur not wrong there. But Ur expectations from new players is waaay to high.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

Have you clicked this link ... I mean if that's not easy ... then, what is??? The guy isnt even dodging ... doesn't do a perfect rotation and is just facetanking most of the dmg ... and this is before the Elements of Rage buff ... and btw Avatar of Balthazar is considered to be hard content by most players, let alone beginners.

 

Really, people can complain all they like about the difficulty of classes, but when it comes to open world: EVERY single class has their beginner friendly options available!

An experienced player soloing one specific champ is not proof ele is an easy OW class, especially for new players. If ele has a beginner friendly option, then it's one of the LEAST beginner friendly options of all the classes. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Hobothesis.6420]

Sorry my thread turned out into ele talk but I'll take it! I always assumed that ele itself wasn't the hard part, as it's easy to memorize what abilities in each element do. The hard part to me would be memorizing all the combo fields you can do by like going from fire element skill into an air element skill. I actually ended up going with a renegade in trailblazers, and a guildy helped me with runes of torment. It's hard to die because of the mechanics, but it's also intensive so I'm rolling a ranger on the side to help me learn the base mechanics of the game before I really deep dive into the ren. Play ren, get aggravated, hop on ranger, cool down. lol. Thanks everyone for all the input tho! Learned a lot! 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Hobothesis.6420 said:

Sorry my thread turned out into ele talk but I'll take it! I always assumed that ele itself wasn't the hard part, as it's easy to memorize what abilities in each element do. The hard part to me would be memorizing all the combo fields you can do by like going from fire element skill into an air element skill. I actually ended up going with a renegade in trailblazers, and a guildy helped me with runes of torment. It's hard to die because of the mechanics, but it's also intensive so I'm rolling a ranger on the side to help me learn the base mechanics of the game before I really deep dive into the ren. Play ren, get aggravated, hop on ranger, cool down. lol. Thanks everyone for all the input tho! Learned a lot! 

 

Are u talking about coire ele or weaver here?.

 

The abilities are easy to remember, but its One of the Longest rotations in the game to do ontop of this, ele is kinda forced to play the game as intended.. where u have to evade and dodge mechanics instead fo standing in a bubble and watching mechanics be outhealed mostly, Eles get 1 shot in raid instances MUCH quikcer then most other options.

 

Core ele is ALOT easier then Weaver, the problem with ele is It suffers from continously stacking a new mechanic ontop of the Core and calling it a Elite, which makes Previous builds rendered worthless comparitively.

 

Weaver gets reduced CDs on Attunements etc etc, which means its playstyle is extremely quickly.. and u have to be able to do the Rotation effectively at the rate of CD.. so its Considered a Piano class as u have to rapidly use a long rotation in order consistently. ofcourse u dont need that level to solo open world, but when so much of ur defense is built into your attunements Kit... you have to be fairly quickly or u will feel squishy Quite fast if u aint reacting fast enough.

 

Because of weavers Dual Strike mechanic, where ur primary hand swaps to the new element and offhand remaisn on old so u can simultaniously wield 2 Elements, it'll also delay your ability to reach utility and defensives if u Fail to react fast enough or step out of line with ur rotation.

 

renegade is defintly a good choice 🙂 got alot of strengths, and Yeah Ranger does make things alot more relaxing haha.

 

 

[Puck.3697]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

An experienced player soloing one specific champ is not proof ele is an easy OW class, especially for new players. If ele has a beginner friendly option, then it's one of the LEAST beginner friendly options of all the classes. 

 

agreed

 

i feel he has a misconception of where a new player or beginner starts at. his video basically shows if u stick at ele u can reach that sorta thing not what the class Looks like below skill floor level of play.

[Agrippa.1693]

12 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

The video your linking isn't a beginner. 

 

it's a dude stacking a ton of effects from potions and mount buffs to absorb the first 90% of the fights damage

 

Also the fact he was maintaining buffs 100% and executed his burst perfectly proves that wasn't a poor example of a rotation either. 

 

You have a warped idea of what a beginner is. Because

 

If you have to know what set to wear, it's not beginner friendly

if you need knowledge of mount buffs and more it's not beginner friendly

 

Beginner friendly means a dude with 0 research and brand new to the game it's combat mechanics and doesn't understand how things work

 

A beginner doesn't know trailblazer. A beginner won't know how to utilise runes. It wont know where to find builds. And it won't know how to use any of the effects shown in that video.

and

11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

An experienced player soloing one specific champ is not proof ele is an easy OW class, especially for new players. If ele has a beginner friendly option, then it's one of the LEAST beginner friendly options of all the classes. 

 

I think here lies the real problem, not if some class is or isn't beginner friendly, but what we see as beginners.

I hope we both (in the sake of OP's question) aren't talking about first timers that still have to level to 80. Because well, if that's the goal (level 80) and want to reach that as easily as possible, there's only one real profession, and that's warrior. It has the highest innate armor rating AND health pool, and especially that first part is incredibly valuable in the beginning of the game where you probably don't even know what that small yellow bar is above your health globe and you don't get that many DoT's against you yet.

I hope we're both actually talking about beginners beyond that! 

And then we're getting both on a different page here.

 

You see, I see beginners (in the beyond 80 stage) as people that don't know how to dodge at the right moment, people that can't yet tell telegraphed signs from their opponents/monsters, people that facetank most of the damage and don't do much about positioning or don't even know how to do ranged in the first place (just stand there in the thick of things).

 

On the other hand, I don't see any reason for a beyond level 80 beginner to not know what their skills do: it's not such a big time investment to actually read your traits/skills and maybe visit a website like metabattle.com, discretize.eu, etc. or even the forums. I see a lazy person (which a lot of gamers are, nothing wrong with that, btw) but not necessarily a beginner! I know veterans that still don't know what their skills/traits do!!!

Hell, it's not even that difficult to learn rotations. Mostly half an hour on a golem is enough (to at least get the rythm of it, which is all you need as a beginner). 

So again, IMO, difficulty of rotations, etc. is not something that makes a class beginner friendly or not. It makes a player lazy if they don't want to invest half an hour of their time into it, but not necessarily a beginner (again beyond level 80). Btw, I'm not judging here, I know a lot of players that don't want to practise rotations, it just mostly takes them longer to complete stuff! If they still enjoy the game that way, who am I to judge.

 

Now back to what I see as something a beginner (beyond level 80) cannot do, is mostly about knowing your surroundings/enemies/mechanics and avoiding the damage you could take from them. And if you look at that video, it's especially the things this guy is NOT doing (and is even proud of it: not dodging ones even)! 

 

Ow and things like using skill 1 on your Jackal, considering as not beginning friendly ... well, I can then only say we're in a complete different ballpark as what you think is beginner friendly and what I think is.

 

I will throw you a bone though, Trailblazer is indeed something you get only when you play the game for more than just a while. But like @Konrad Curze.5130 was stating already, Celestial is probably superior now anyway, so beginners can always go for that now!

 

*edit: @Obtena.7952 and @Daddy.8125, it sounds like I'm saying you're wrong when I read it back, but I'm not trying to say that, btw. It's just a difference of opinion on how we see beginners.

It shows how subjective terms like easy and beginner-friendly are!

Edited June 24, 2021 by Agrippa Oculus.3726
incomplete

[Puck.3697]

39 minutes ago, Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

and

 

I think here lies the real problem, not if some class is or isn't beginner friendly, but what we see as beginners.

I hope we both (in the sake of OP's question) aren't talking about first timers that still have to level to 80. Because well, if that's the goal (level 80) and want to reach that as easily as possible, there's only one real profession, and that's warrior. It has the highest innate armor rating AND health pool, and especially that first part is incredibly valuable in the beginning of the game where you probably don't even know what that small yellow bar is above your health globe and you don't get that many DoT's against you yet.

I hope we're both actually talking about beginners beyond that! 

And then we're getting both on a different page here.

 

You see, I see beginners (in the beyond 80 stage) as people that don't know how to dodge at the right moment, people that can't yet tell telegraphed signs from their opponents/monsters, people that facetank most of the damage and don't do much about positioning or don't even know how to do ranged in the first place (just stand there in the thick of things).

 

On the other hand, I don't see any reason for a beyond level 80 beginner to not know what their skills do: it's not such a big time investment to actually read your traits/skills and maybe visit a website like metabattle.com, discretize.eu, etc. or even the forums. I see a lazy person (which a lot of gamers are, nothing wrong with that, btw) but not necessarily a beginner! I know veterans that still don't know what their skills/traits do!!!

Hell, it's not even that difficult to learn rotations. Mostly half an hour on a golem is enough (to at least get the rythm of it, which is all you need as a beginner). 

So again, IMO, difficulty of rotations, etc. is not something that makes a class beginner friendly or not. It makes a player lazy if they don't want to invest half an hour of their time into it, but not necessarily a beginner (again beyond level 80). Btw, I'm not judging here, I know a lot of players that don't want to practise rotations, it just mostly takes them longer to complete stuff! If they still enjoy the game that way, who am I to judge.

 

Now back to what I see as something a beginner (beyond level 80) cannot do, is mostly about knowing your surroundings/enemies/mechanics and avoiding the damage you could take from them. And if you look at that video, it's especially the things this guy is NOT doing (and is even proud of it: not dodging ones even)! 

 

Ow and things like using skill 1 on your Jackal, considering as not beginning friendly ... well, I can then only say we're in a complete different ballpark as what you think is beginner friendly and what I think is.

 

I will throw you a bone though, Trailblazer is indeed something you get only when you play the game for more than just a while. But like @Konrad Curze.5130 was stating already, Celestial is probably superior now anyway, so beginners can always go for that now!

 

a beginner even on ur example wouldnt be able to execute What that guys does in the video. u poorly illistrate whats going on there, he uses several devices and masterys to maximise barrier hes not "face tanking dmg" hes absorbing all the damage. he also used potions and more

 

Ur opinon conflicts with every new player post on the class. which doesnt mean ur wrong.. but it does mean the vast majority havent had the same successes, which may mean maybe ur naturally better at a starting point with ele if i struggled playing this class as a new player. several others Post about getting ele to 80 and struggling as a beginner.

 

and ur one guy among multitudes of players with a different opinon to everyone else.

 

it prolly means statistically more people arent struggling far more then u do then are getting ur epxerience. which means Statistically its not a great advertisement. .

 

theres currently a post which people are posting into about getting ele to 80.. and being frustrated and rerolled to these other classes... litterally they referred to weaver a sa Maoschist dance. walking around. these peopkle have been on forums, they've asked for help we've told them to get this armour. they say no improvement. and their still dying to everything.

 

Im sorry, but its untrue.. the fact that i was struggling with full cele and full trailblazer gears when i started this char.. and now doing content i couldnt do before in grieving set kinda proves my point here, ur active defenses with all the evades and buff uptime management.. Just 110% matter more then the gear ur wearing.

 

16k hp aint gonna save u from anything. and that guy did the entire fight with barrier on. which means he wasnt taking any damage..

 

he also cheesed massively using Several Opener potions to litterally 1 shot the Hounds with Rabbit leap + a AoE.

 

again something a begginer is very unlikely to have unlocked, nor know about,

 

please dont act like He only used Jackal there lmfao. he stacked Several barriers lmfao, Jackal barrier is a 5k barrier, that dude had 20k+ Lmfao. it was ONE of the things he used. look at his buffs, u can see what hes using..

 

Lets look at this realistically.

 

GW2 levelling process when my mum and brother did it, took 5 days.

They had Elites unlocked after about 3-4 days later.

 

So People are doing this content roughly 9-11 Days after starting this game. my mum didnt know Jackal had barrier on it til i used it to help her do the HoT Meat hero point which slowly kills u.

 

your experience appears to be vastly different to Most... which means Either.

 

your Simply better at gaming then most players so naturally pick things up faster

Your simply stronger at remembering.

you do far more research then the average Player.

Or u dont fidn the game as difficult as the vast majority.

 

no one has some "bias" to Make ele look harder then it is, No one has a "bias" to die repeatively to make others beleive this either, these are geninue players who are finding ele too difficult to use in open world content, they're rerolling because they dont find dying Fun and would prefer a Easier time with a different option.

 

given that mentality has done nothing but repeat itself, with several Sources kinda proving this is how players are reacting to Elementalist.

 

I dont agree to recommend the proffession. a New player can learn Ele, and can look up and use these builds i agree, theres multiple discords and sites provided to extract this information from, I dont agree because its a Proffession that has kinda proven to turn new players off the game entirely and tends to frustrate far more players then it satisfys, Its also on a continous nerf loop where they're endlessly nerfing it while handing other classes tons of new tools and improving their situations.

 

which means this disparity is getting worse and worse.

 

Scrapper can generate 15% of its dmg to barrier with every attack this is AMAZING for self sustain.

 

Scourge can generate LARGE bursts of Barrier with a few buttons giving huge sustain, they can also trait

 

into several things which makes them PASSIVELY immortal with low APM.

 

Ranger can go Double bear Pet and have 70,000 HP Worth of a Tank infront of them at all times.

 

Necromancer can run minonmancer and have 5 Pets taking All the damage for them allowing free AFK Farming.

 

Thief can Evade all dmg, Do AoE Damage and Move in 1 button, while having access to one of the Best tagging weapons in the game to make meta events much easier to gain rewards from everything garunteed

 

These are Easier to understand, and Easier to read capabilities which will Help the beginner player, its common when you take fights ur uncomfortable in. you as a player will panic. its about finding a class which they can operate while under that panic.

 

and its far easier to go south trying to utilise Elementalist, then any of these above examples. High APM proffessions are generally harder to use under paniced situations. while slower APM options give the player the relaxation to concentrate on the What the enemy is doing. Hence why lots of people use these proffessions when learning Raids and things.

 

its nothing to do with "kitten" or Eles position in Raid or fractal content, its nothing to do with difficulty or comparisons.

 

the point here is, if my Mother rolled a Ele and Died repeatively and gave up. i almost rerolled several times and only have perserved because of how much i love magical themes, my brother Deleted his because of how angry he got at it, theres Litterally 3 posts in the first page of players quitting the proffession because they cant make it work saying maybe they'll reutrn once more experienced.

 

im not going to jump into the next thread of recommendation and say "go play ele". because if the Previous repeats for the person posting they're likely to quit the game and never return. which makes this a Negative move for the community. if players are struggling, its irrelevant if u say "well they're playing cele/trailblazers wrong" but OBVIOUSLY the problem is u can play it wrongto begin with. because i didnt suffer any of these problems with any other class and iv'e boosted Litterally 1 of every class and Done PoF and HoT Storylines on every single one of them.

 

so if i as a New player found the game several times Easier on other classes why would i recommend Ele.. the only other classes i struggled Near to the same quantity with was Mesmer which i repeatively died with also. it doesnt fit the notion here realistically and makes no sense... new players DO struggle with Ele. its a intensive Rotation that is far higher APM then several options that exist.

 

can it work Yes, can it be strong Yes. are their builds to strengthen its weaknesses? Yes. but does that mean its Easily accessible and Easy for players to just walk in with and do their stuff? No.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

There isn't any confusion about who is a 'beginner'. 

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

There isn't any confusion about who is a 'beginner'. 

 

Tbh it sounds to me he's more trying to push against the negativity surround elementalist. Which he is to a degree right about. Ele can do well for itself.

 

I dunno maybe he wants to ele to be more popular. 

 

4 hours ago, Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

it sounds like I'm saying you're wrong when I read it back, but I'm not trying to say that, btw. It's just a difference of opinion on how we see beginners.

It shows how subjective terms like easy and beginner-friendly are

 

The issue is u said it at the start. Eles dying every 2 seconds is a stigma. 

 

But stigmas are built off perception the reason elementalist has a stigma around perma death is because the vast majority of players are permanantly dead when playing the proffession. 

 

The reason it exists is because it's the reality of what happens in players hands. 

 

If a class has a bad rap for dying, being bad, or something it's a good indication of what's happening in the game. 

 

If people are perma dying with the proffession it prolly means there's a problem on the player end. Gw2 is mechanically harder then most mmorpgs. So alot of people recommend low APM proffessions to make that entry easier. 

 

And trailblazer is some what of a fix. But let's face it, it will get nerfed in EoD it's too powerful and it's overpowered in itself. 

 

If a new player wants to play ele. Go for it. It's alot of fun and with some effort is absolutely fine in all content. But in all honesty to put in the effort when u compare it to some other things you could have. You have to love ele to stick through it. 

 

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

The main point is to play something besides Necro, learn it and enjoy PvE on another profession.

[Andrew.2604]

Why are we calling noobs "beginners" now and why are we censoring "butt" like wtf? And why in the kitten are we arguing about something so obvious? Elementalist without a doubt is one of the least noob friendly classes with a high skill ceiling, but many other classes can out perform it with doing half the work, out of every class Elementalist is by a slim margin the under performer in almost all content where you have to work twice as hard as any other class for more or less the same outcome. Elementalist is dubbed the masochist class for a reason. If you want the best and easiest class for all content just play Condi Scourge or Condi Renegade, if you want to be different and have an identity and uniqueness and not a meta slave sheep then play Elementalist, then some people will have respect for you for not jumping on the band wagon. /thread

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Andrew.2604 said:

Why are we calling noobs "beginners" now and why are we censoring "butt" like wtf? And why in the kitten are we arguing about something so obvious? Elementalist without a doubt is one of the least noob friendly classes with a high skill ceiling, but many other classes can out perform it with doing half the work, out of every class Elementalist is by a slim margin the under performer in almost all content where you have to work twice as hard as any other class for more or less the same outcome. Elementalist is dubbed the masochist class for a reason. If you want the best and easiest class for all content just play Condi Scourge or Condi Renegade, if you want to be different and have an identity and uniqueness and not a meta slave sheep then play Elementalist, then some people will have respect for you for not jumping on the band wagon. /thread

 

Well because noob is no longer only a reference towards new players and used primarily against players who considered bad at the game or don't understand the game on a fundamental Level. 

 

It's correct to a extent. Putting trailblazer on any Condi build and open world content is beyond a joke regardless of proffession. That set is soo power crept above anything open world realistically puts against you. 

 

However it's defintly easier to flat out die with elementalist or thief then any other proffession in the game realistically hence why alot of us argue against someone saying "elementalist is easy" but open world has gotten so easy in today's standards that effectively it's a walk in the park. 

 

Elementalist itself isn't hard to play however, Condi weaver to be specific is where the difficulty is considered. Tempest and core are actually pretty simple. And power weaver is a combination of only using 2 of the 4 elements in full rotation. The issue is ele survivability makes mechanics far more punishing. Although I do wonder if thats a problem with ele being underpowered or other proffessions being overpowered realistically. 

 

On the meta v not meta, in all honesty everyone should just play whatever they want realistically no band wagoning about it. Play what aesthetically appeals to you. Elementalist I find alot of fun with. I also really enjoy engineer. 

 

 

[otto.5684]

Rev is extremely strong, at the current level. As long as you use devastation line, you will be all good.