Waypoints, Cantha and EoD

[Tekoneiric.6817]

The lore is that the Waypoints were created and are operated by the Asura right? Also Cantha is supposed to have been isolated for a very long time. Given this, what are we going to be using in EoD? GW1 style shrines?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Story wise, the Commander almost always arrives after everyone else, this is why for example in Orr there's already camps set up everywhere when we get there. Most of Central Tyria, expansion and Living World maps are set up this way.

 

There's only a few exceptions to this so far:

- In Path of Fire, where Elona already had some waypoints present due to a small Asura presence. (Though a very small number of them compared to other regions.)

- In Dragonfall, where we're one of the first arrivals, and set up waypoints ourselves.

 

This means we're likely to encounter waypoints in Cantha as well. I don't know how the systemic xenophobia will play into that, if at all.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Tekoneiric.6817]

21 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Story wise, the Commander almost always arrives after everyone else, this is why for example in Orr there's already camps set up everywhere when we get there. Most of Central Tyria, expansion and Living World maps are set up this way.

 

There's only a few exceptions to this so far:

- In Path of Fire, where Elona already had some waypoints present due to a small Asura presence. (Though a very small number of them compared to other regions.)

- In Dragonfall, where we're one of the first arrivals, and set up waypoints ourselves.

 

This means we're likely to encounter waypoints in Cantha as well. I don't know how the systemic xenophobia will play into that, if at all.

 

This is true for all the past stories but I would think that the Commander would be on the forefront of whatever force going to Cantha unless they do the story from the perspective that representatives from Tyria were invited to go there by Canthan authorities. They could just as easily say that the Asura developed a relay device that links the old shrines into the Waypoint network. I'm just curious how they are going to address this with EoD.

[Fueki.4753]

Regarding waypoints, you have to consider that your character almost never is the Commander in Open World, but a regular adventurer (or a regular Pact soldier in cases like Dragon's Stand.

Thus, arriving later than Asura is not too strange.

 

As far as the story is concerned, the Commander never used a single waypoint in the Heart of Maguuma, Orr or Elona.

 

I certainly hope they will not continue to cheapen out on us again by putting way too few teleport points onto the maps.

The waypoint density on vanilla maps is just right, less than that is insufficient.

Even with mounts, getting somewhere on non-vanilla maps is just tedious.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

14 hours ago, Tekoneiric.6817 said:

The lore is that the Waypoints were created and are operated by the Asura right? Also Cantha is supposed to have been isolated for a very long time. Given this, what are we going to be using in EoD? GW1 style shrines?

Heart of Thorns areas and Elona, as well as some S3 and S4 zones, shouldn't have waypoints by lore standards, as they're a recent development (past decade or so). Many of the HoT metas don't even make sense if you consider the presence of those waypoints (Nobles in VB for example).

 

As such, it's pretty straight forward to assume that these specific waypoints are either not part of lore, pure mechanics, or were brought into these remote areas shortly before the Commander arrives.

 

I don't expect EoD to be changing the waypoint system, unless it's a new mastery line which is artificial difficulty. At most, maybe a reskin of waypoints into a new appearance but functionally the same mechanically.

 

14 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

- In Path of Fire, where Elona already had some waypoints present due to a small Asura presence. (Though a very small number of them compared to other regions.)

Asura don't have a presence in Elona. There are the Inquest, but they're isolated to their labs.

The asura seen in places like Elon Riverlands are part of a Priory expedition that arrives alongside/moments before the Commander does (same set of ships that Kasmeer, Rytlock, and the Consortium arrive on).

 

Personally, I wish more maps took the Dragonfall route of letting us set up waypoints, rather than just letting them be contested until a camp is set up around them (technically, in Orr, we are setting up the waypoints along with the camps, it's just not visually shown).

Edited June 20, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Heart of Thorns areas and Elona, as well as some S3 and S4 zones, shouldn't have waypoints by lore standards, as they're a recent development (past decade or so). Many of the HoT metas don't even make sense if you consider the presence of those waypoints (Nobles in VB for example).

 

As such, it's pretty straight forward to assume that these specific waypoints are either not part of lore, pure mechanics, or were brought into these remote areas shortly before the Commander arrives.

 

I don't expect EoD to be changing the waypoint system, unless it's a new mastery line which is artificial difficulty. At most, maybe a reskin of waypoints into a new appearance but functionally the same mechanically.

 

Asura don't have a presence in Elona. There are the Inquest, but they're isolated to their labs.

The asura seen in places like Elon Riverlands are part of a Priory expedition that arrives alongside/moments before the Commander does (same set of ships that Kasmeer, Rytlock, and the Consortium arrive on).

 

Personally, I wish more maps took the Dragonfall route of letting us set up waypoints, rather than just letting them be contested until a camp is set up around them (technically, in Orr, we are setting up the waypoints along with the camps, it's just not visually shown).

The lore complications of waypoints are many. For example, in open-world a player can transport to any waypoint they've ever been to, but in reality they seem to be limited to very short distances; Trehearne couldn't get any reinforcements at Fort Trinity without the Asura Gates functioning, and there's many similar incidences in the story.

 

I think we can assume, lore-wise, they're mostly set up shortly before or during our arrival, transport only short distances, and can't be used while the area is contested afterwards because they need an operator present whose not shown (or something similar).

 

We also know their location is limited by ley-lines which limits the places where forward camps can be established. (Source: LS2 story.)

 

And they most certainly don't revive people. 😛

 

Dragonfall handled it the best out of everything, and I hope we get more treatment like that in the future, if possible. Really, for all the flak it gets LS4 was amasing with incredible attention to details that fell off sharply recently.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Poormany.4507]

Based on the teaser, it seems like the Aetherblades, who have Asuran members/technology, already have a presence in Cantha (the faded Aetherblade flag in the teaser), and more will likely be going there based on the airships in the concept art. The Canthan people may also have developed their own waypoint technology, possibly using the same magic as the shrines in GW1, which have been shown to act as waypoints in certain areas of GW2 as well (the shrines in One Path Ends in particular).

Edited June 20, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[EdwinLi.1284]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Heart of Thorns areas and Elona, as well as some S3 and S4 zones, shouldn't have waypoints by lore standards, as they're a recent development (past decade or so). Many of the HoT metas don't even make sense if you consider the presence of those waypoints (Nobles in VB for example).

 

As such, it's pretty straight forward to assume that these specific waypoints are either not part of lore, pure mechanics, or were brought into these remote areas shortly before the Commander arrives.

 

I don't expect EoD to be changing the waypoint system, unless it's a new mastery line which is artificial difficulty. At most, maybe a reskin of waypoints into a new appearance but functionally the same mechanically.

 

Asura don't have a presence in Elona. There are the Inquest, but they're isolated to their labs.

The asura seen in places like Elon Riverlands are part of a Priory expedition that arrives alongside/moments before the Commander does (same set of ships that Kasmeer, Rytlock, and the Consortium arrive on).

 

Personally, I wish more maps took the Dragonfall route of letting us set up waypoints, rather than just letting them be contested until a camp is set up around them (technically, in Orr, we are setting up the waypoints along with the camps, it's just not visually shown).

Well to be fair we can assume the waypoints established were setup by the survivors stuck in HoT locations since waypoints are also meant to be used by the Pact as base and camp markers so they always carry waypoints to establish bases of operations or outposts.

We seen for ourselves that in Elona, the waypoints were setup recently by Priory explorers which is why they are far from each other and in few numbers

If we see waypoints in Cantha it is most likely that Cantha obtained a waypoint from trading with the Zephyrites and maybe learned to replicate them.

Edited June 20, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Waypoints should have stayed a game mechanic that was ignored by lore.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

15 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

I think we can assume, lore-wise, they're mostly set up shortly before or during our arrival, transport only short distances, and can't be used while the area is contested afterwards because they need an operator present whose not shown (or something similar).

Don't forget that one needs to be directly underneath a waypoint to use it, as we see several NPCs do so.

 

As to the Fort Trinity reinforcements, I'm not sure how solid that is for waypoint functionality. Lorewise, Fort Trinity might not have a waypoint to make use of.

12 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Well to be fair we can assume the waypoints established were setup by the survivors stuck in HoT locations since waypoints are also meant to be used by the Pact as base and camp markers so they always carry waypoints to establish bases of operations or outposts.

If the survivors of the crashes were the ones establishing the waypoints, then why did they need to be evacuated via chopper (or walk back as seen in Torn from the Sky story step) as the entire VB map's meta indicates, or require recovery in Tarir as seen in AB?

 

12 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

We seen for ourselves that in Elona, the waypoints were setup recently by Priory explorers which is why they are far from each other and in few numbers

This works as an explanation in the Crystal Desert, but few Priory members were able to make it past the Bone Wall (only the one that moves around weekly did AFAIK), so it's harder to explain the waypoint presence in Elona proper maps like Vabbi, Istan, and Sandswept Isles where Priory presence is pretty much (or is) non-existent.

 

But it's a minor detail that's easily held within the suspension of disbelief as being rather mundane.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if ANet uses the Aetherblades and their very, very, very few formerly-Inquest members (these members only exist in EotM) as a means of explaining waypoints in Cantha, or does the same ploy as with the Crystal Desert and have Priory showing at the same time as the Commander and "moving ahead" to their destinations while the Commander diddles around with local politics for a short time.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

When i play around in Orr, you can see there are 2 types of waypoints, the have the normal ones you see all over the world, but Orr also have some that have a litle circle platform below them. to me this always looked like these when portable ones used for remote areas, im kinda sat anet didnt used that style more ofter in other remote areas

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

As for the waypoints in Elona not being used by the locals, even to save themselves from Joko, its been established that waypoints are extremely expensive, and the Asura don't tend to be super altruistic.

 

We know the residents of Kryta are poor, in comparison to players, and Elonians are even poorer. An egg is 1c, and using a waypoint can be up to 1,800 times that, on the cheap side, and many of the inhabitants of Elona, especially in Joko's domain, can't even afford to feed themselves.

 

Going by the average price of eggs here, that's about 300$ USD to use a waypoint, minimum.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[voltaicbore.8012]

14 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Waypoints should have stayed a game mechanic that was ignored by lore.

This.

 

I think having them acknowledged by lore was a huge mistake, and any further recognition of them in the story only deepens the error. I really wish they'd remain purely a QoL mechanic for players and nothing more. Having now replayed the living world instances that introduce the waypoints directly into the story, I feel just as strongly that the story could have easily done without that addition.

[Teratus.2859]

My guess would be that waypoints are set up as part of event chains or something during the new content.

Perhaps a mix of WP's and shrines will play a role through EoD and i'd be fine with that in all honesty.
WP's set up through event chains and Shrines serving as some base revive/teleport points like they did in Sirens Landing.

[Nico.9361]

On 6/19/2021 at 1:00 PM, Tekoneiric.6817 said:

The lore is that the Waypoints were created and are operated by the Asura right? Also Cantha is supposed to have been isolated for a very long time. Given this, what are we going to be using in EoD? GW1 style shrines?

I wouldn't necessarily agree this is a problem. Back in EotN we were using asura technology in Cantha, namely gates.

Are waypoints relatively new invention? If so, this might be explained (if at all) through the use of temporary ones... Or we might come and establish some. Cantha is a big continent, we are bound to use some kind of quick transportation aside from mounts.

[hugo.4705]

I think waypoints are more recents than asuran gates. I see waypoints as a way to make a secure transportation between two points. Whereas ton of undesired creatures can pass through asura gates, (see ulta metamagical events) for waypoints, someone checks you pay a fee , so money, i doubt dragon minions can give coins. And secondly, to be confirmed, but i think tve waypoints do a DNA scan. And only transport like dolyaks or sentient beeing: skritts, exalted, 5 main races can use them. I think kodan and grawl could use them too.

 

But if we start about evolution of transport means, as show portalforge lab of sandswept, it is possible to have a cannon that generate two portals and create a link between them. 

 

I bet it is now possible to have antennas devices and use them as anchors to be teleported to them.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

18 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

I wouldn't necessarily agree this is a problem. Back in EotN we were using asura technology in Cantha, namely gates.

Are waypoints relatively new invention? If so, this might be explained (if at all) through the use of temporary ones... Or we might come and establish some. Cantha is a big continent, we are bound to use some kind of quick transportation aside from mounts.

Yes, waypoints are derived from the "Hole in your pocket" transportable asura gate device that Snaff made and only kept for personal use as of 1320 AE when he died, which is brought up in Edge of the Mists. That Old College Try mentions the device, though doesn't name it beyond "personal teleporter", before waypoints became well placed. AFAIK it's not actually mentioned in-game how old they are though, or their origins.

 

So waypoints are at most 5 years old by the time GW2 begins. It's lorewise impossible for there to be any in Cantha unless Zephyrites or - I shudder to suggest - Inquest brought some over.

[Nico.9361]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

So waypoints are at most 5 years old by the time GW2 begins. It's lorewise impossible for there to be any in Cantha unless Zephyrites or - I shudder to suggest - Inquest brought some over.

We also have Aetherblades. Ever since we've heard about them coming to EoD, I was wondering what could be their involvement.
Those pirates seem to travel a lot (at least in trailer). I could see them bringing some tech to Cantha as well.

If Gods are involved in the story, I could see them bringing back the shrines. Fee works fine as an offering. So a visual only change?

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

If Gods are involved in the story, I could see them bringing back the shrines. Fee works fine as an offering. So a visual only change?

well have precedence, the portal to the mists in LA is explained as portals bring by gods, mainly balthazar, beside they have asura gate look. 

 

Mechanically the main difference between Shrines and Waypoints is that Shirine work even in combat, so they just need block this to work as Asura Waypoint.

Edited July 24, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

8 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

well have precedence, the portal to the mists in LA is explained as portals bring by gods, mainly balthazar, beside they have asura gate look.

That lore apparently got retconned. In the original LA map, there was a norn who explained that "the asura discovered a way" to make an asura gate go into the Mists. No credit to Balthazar or pre-existing portals.

There is no "blue hued portal" to the Mists borderlands, which some Mist Warriors still mention. IIRC, there actually was concept art of this portal, which resembles the current Fractal portal a bit.