Bunny thumper ranger yay or nay

[Arheundel.6451]

17 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

You keep making that assumption over and over again.

 

There is no ranged class in this game. IT CAME WITH A GS AND A SWORD AT LAUNCH. I sure as hell didn't pick ranger to pew pew at 1000+ distance all day.

Really the pet mechanic has confined ranger to ..range since day 1, before soulbeast people were simply playing with half-mechanic when trying to play melee ranger in anything more than 1vs1 situation. It's not what me or you want...it's how the class has been designed and what people don't recognize in my argument., I don't think the version of melee suitable to ranger design is the same one people are hoping for

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

@Arheundel.6451 na i started playing ranger for the theme. I only touch ranged in WvW out of necessity. I play pretty much all specs just in melee because that where the actual action is happening. 

One of my favored bruisers is rev and i love the PbAoEs of the dwarve stance and i would love me some PbAoEs on ranger.

 

I think rangers range attack rolls are already covered apart from extensive AoEs. Current ranged weapons are in a dire need of improvement and need better mechanics to feel rewarding but another ranged weapon just for the AoE aspect would basically play like mortar kit, which i wouldnt consider fun to play tbh.

 

But i think the spec weapon can still be melee and provide ranger with ranged AoE damage. If they would give ranger concecrations for example they could make them ranged CC and damage utilities that would provide the needed AoE capabilities.

 

But to hammer it home:No , ppl dont always choose ranger because of the bow. Some do, some dont.

The range gameplay on this class is already rewarding enough for the effort required, people can learn to slot signet of the Hunt  and prioritize targets, we don't need to further reward "press 2" gameplay without actual strategy behind it.

With that said, you do have a really good point with revenant, considering hammer on rev, Anet could implement some PBAoE for rangers but the question remains: how would they implement a strong melee mechanic considering pets and the general balance for the class?

 

-if they add an elite which relies on strong melee pets ...well we all know those pets will be nerfed within 6 months from launch, we would end up with half-useful elite before the end of the next year

-what about the inherent lack of blocks/melee sustain the class has by design? To support a melee design you need good access to block, invulnerability/evasion...general resilience and we all remember what happened to boonbeast and how heavily ranger was nerfed to balance it...another round of similar nerfs would destroy core ranger literally.

 

I have a clear example of a community wishing for a weapon not well designed for a class: elementalist and sword , they gave sword to ele because people wanted to play Gandalf in Queensdale...now 3/4 of those Gandalf play necro/guardian or renegade.

 

Ranger is a skirmisher not a melee brawler, my hopes now is that Anet has wisen up...I am just hoping of not getting another druid.....

[Substance E.4852]

It really doesn't even matter when you consider the hammer ranger will need yet another wacky mechanic that sidesteps the pet in order to be of any use in pvp/wvw outside of dueling and won't out perform SlB in pve damage without massive nerfs to Slb's dps

Without major reworks to the pet system as whole, Bunny Thumper will just be Slb stance share 2.0

Sounds really nice on paper and should be something that people want on their team but performs really poorly and is outmatched by other classes when in the field

Also keep in mind that the GW1 Thumper revolved around hammer knockdowns in order to actually put out the pressure that made it such a meme

The more of those they give us, the less damage we do. The weapon might feel like the wrath of God in pve but will be far from a dps beast in pvp/wvw, forcing you to rely on GS for damage but without Slb modifiers that make it impactful right now

[Arheundel.6451]

3 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

It really doesn't even matter when you consider the hammer ranger will need yet another wacky mechanic that sidesteps the pet in order to be of any use in pvp/wvw outside of dueling and won't out perform SlB in pve damage without massive nerfs to Slb's dps

Without major reworks to the pet system as whole, Bunny Thumper will just be Slb stance share 2.0

Sounds really nice on paper and should be something that people want on their team but performs really poorly and is outmatched by other classes when in the field

Also keep in mind that the GW1 Thumper revolved around hammer knockdowns in order to actually put out the pressure that made it such a meme

The more of those they give us, the less damage we do. The weapon might feel like the wrath of God in pve but will be far from a dps beast in pvp/wvw, forcing you to rely on GS for damage but without Slb modifiers that make it impactful right now

Fact is the vast majority of people requesting a specific weapon for any class tend to be PvErs at 100%, anything works in PvE really, so as long as it looks good.....for them it's fine. Let's remember that PvE is the priority for Anet in everything, the rest is always a plus and never a necessity; the only weapons that Anet has ever buffed were the ones underperforming in PvE for a reason or another, the occasional PvP nerf always comes after months/years worth of nagging on the forum

 

A hammer ranger given the pet mechanic would end up being quite awful in a PvP scenario, it will be good to use for a while after launch presumably thx to some OP trait, pet, utility.....then it would get inevitably hard nerfed in all competitive scenario and that will be considered an acceptable decision as the PvEr playerbase will be unaffected by the change and they will keep enjoying their juggernaut legendary

 

Basically the vast majority of players in GW2 want elites specs so they can craft a new legendary for their favourite profession, only a minority look at elite as a chance for new gameplay options.

 

I explained already why pure melee ranger would not work and I get the same answers I was getting in ele subforum, where I was trying to explain that an additional melee weapon for ele would have been a godawful idea...well people wanted their sword, see where that got them in the end....

 

People want to play their hammer but...you have these pets getting insta killed by AoE, no PBAoE utilities/traits/additional weapons like other melee focused profession, no blocks outside GS....how can you expect to play melee range 24/7 in a zerg scenario?

 

It's not about the weapon, it's about the role people are asking , pure melee ranger hasn't got the foundation to work effectively without a dedicated onetrick pony elite. In a single instance this "dream elite" will have to somehow "immunize" pets from aoe dmg, provide additional sources of block/sustain, add team oriented utilities/trait and ofc...provide enough dmg to be worth using and to top it all....ranger would still have the chance to swap to LB and burst people from distance

 

I just don't see that happening without providing a clearly OP/broken elite that would end up being gutted to hell after ofc seeing everything around it being destroyed. Imagine getting a soulbeast 2.0 with hammer....now let's remember all the nerfs sustained to "balance" boonbeast...and multiply it by 10x.

[anduriell.6280]

6 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's not about the weapon, it's about the role people are asking , pure melee ranger hasn't got the foundation to work effectively without a dedicated onetrick pony elite. In a single instance this "dream elite" will have to somehow "immunize" pets from aoe dmg, provide additional sources of block/sustain, add team oriented utilities/trait and ofc...provide enough dmg to be worth using and to top it all....ranger would still have the chance to swap to LB and burst people from distance

 

I just don't see that happening without providing a clearly OP/broken elite that would end up being gutted to hell after ofc seeing everything around it being destroyed. Imagine getting a soulbeast 2.0 with hammer....now let's remember all the nerfs sustained to "balance" boonbeast...and multiply it by 10x.

Well the weapon is also important is some way: ranger does not need more projectile stuff unless it gets consistent access to unblockables. 

I do agree it will happen as always with the new specs, it will come out broken OP and then quickly nerfed until becomes the next druid. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

There is a reason why I suggested a F5 for the thumper that shadowsteps you and your pet next to the target. Give it instant cast time, paired with a knockdown on the hammer and damage modifiers versus CCd targets from the traitlines and a strong spike skill on the hammer. You could use that well in PvP and small scale WvW.

[Arheundel.6451]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Well the weapon is also important is some way: ranger does not need more projectile stuff unless it gets consistent access to unblockables. 

I do agree it will happen as always with the new specs, it will come out broken OP and then quickly nerfed until becomes the next druid. 

 

One way to please everybody would be to create a pet based elite with a specific mechanic for the new elite, so to say give a F5 that let pets enter a state of Rage during which they deal 2x more dmg while taking no dmg or condi during the duration...the counterplay would be that after using Rage the pet would become Exhausted  for half the duration of rage mode, so we say rage mode on a 15-20s CD and Exhaust mode lasting 6 to 10s, during the Exhaust phase, the pet move at 1/3 of the original and deal likewise 1/3 of the original dmg.

 

1- we need a not OP pet mechanic that let the AI survive at melee range

2_ we add a weapon gameplay that increase sustain temporarily while at melee range or similar idea

 

An elite not able to solve those 2 issues is bound for failure 

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There is a reason why I suggested a F5 for the thumper that shadowsteps you and your pet next to the target. Give it instant cast time, paired with a knockdown on the hammer and damage modifiers versus CCd targets from the traitlines and a strong spike skill on the hammer. You could use that well in PvP and small scale WvW.

You can basically do that already on SB with smokescale and axe5, teleport on target and go crazy but then....you're stuck at melee range with nothing to defend yourself with but GS block and leap to maybe trying to run away...sadly the game is now saturated with CC/snare/immobilize that will outlast even Dolyak stance on top of raining boonrip and condiburst..yeah...doesn't work that well when fighting close tight groups small or big.

 

The problem with melee range is that once you get in...you need a plan to stay alive, and with stunlock flying all around you...your chances of survival against an organized groups are close to zero

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You can basically do that already on SB with smokescale and axe5, teleport on target and go crazy but then....you're stuck at melee range with nothing to defend yourself with but GS block and leap to maybe trying to run away...sadly the game is now saturated with CC/snare/immobilize that will outlast even Dolyak stance on top of raining boonrip and condiburst..yeah...doesn't work that well when fighting close tight groups small or big.

 

True but this would be a pet and weapon agnostic port.

4 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The problem with melee range is that once you get in...you need a plan to stay alive, and with stunlock flying all around you...your chances of survival against an organized groups are close to zero

That would then depend on the utilities and traits from the new spec. Nothing stopping a Ranger Hammer from having a block on it like GS does, or 3 evades like other ranger weapon combos.

[Tanbin.9402]

ill put it this way, soulbeast when it first came out was godlike and it still wasn't as good at the level of what bunny thumper was -- if this class were to get anything remotely close, it would be complained about into oblivion and it would be nerfed within a day's time. 

 

you're basically wasting your time petitioning for something similar

[Infusion.7149]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There is a reason why I suggested a F5 for the thumper that shadowsteps you and your pet next to the target. Give it instant cast time, paired with a knockdown on the hammer and damage modifiers versus CCd targets from the traitlines and a strong spike skill on the hammer. You could use that well in PvP and small scale WvW.

It wouldn't be a shadowstep, it would probably be a dash or leap.

---

Also, hammer or mace would mean you have 2 very viable options in competitive modes for meleeing especially in WvW as opposed to just Greatsword. The only concern would be stealthing pet and pet survival which could be rectified by reducing damage when the pet isn't targeted directly and having pet stow or stealth when not in combat.

It could easily have skills and traits such as :

* comfort animal which resurrects dead pet
* heal as one heal skill, which ressurects dead pet or heals it if it is alive
* break stun on both you and your pet
* pet stealths when out of combat and when you are stealthed
* dual strike , all melee skills do half damage but skills hit twice (an aegis counter)
* hammer/mace skills apply weakness when hitting dazed or immobed target = damage mitigation
* pet has protection and resolution while near you
* a pet hitting an immobilized foe or crippled does 10-15% more damage
* pet has fury when you use a pet ability , new skill type specific to spec, or command
* using a pet ability on a target marked by a command (sic em) , trap, or other skill type specific to the new spec results in vulnerability + poison

Traits and skills would need to fill in gaps of beast mastery traitline.
 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Downstate.4697]

I want offhand sword. Make sw/sw feel good as a dps option. 

[anduriell.6280]

15 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

One way to please everybody would be to create a pet based elite with a specific mechanic for the new elite, so to say give a F5 that let pets enter a state of Rage during which they deal 2x more dmg while taking no dmg or condi during the duration...the counterplay would be that after using Rage the pet would become Exhausted  for half the duration of rage mode, so we say rage mode on a 15-20s CD and Exhaust mode lasting 6 to 10s, during the Exhaust phase, the pet move at 1/3 of the original and deal likewise 1/3 of the original dmg.

 

1- we need a not OP pet mechanic that let the AI survive at melee range

2_ we add a weapon gameplay that increase sustain temporarily while at melee range or similar idea

 

An elite not able to solve those 2 issues is bound for failure 

Even with all the counterplay you have put in place the whining would reach unbeliable levels and the mechanic would be nerfed to the ground.  Most players don't want to deal with the enemy  pet companion and Anet devs have indulgence that behavious for years. 

 

Soubeast got nerfed the archetype bonus to a 50% less in power attributes. 

Also it happens i do think the mechanics to improve pet survivability should be core and not related to a specialization. I offer an idea some years ago, now lost in the forums.

1. When the ranger uses an skill which cleanses or stunbreak the pet should share the same effects as baseline.
2. When ranger uses an evade or dodge the pet should get the same effect like a distorsion effect as baseline. 
3. Fortifying Bond should be baseline. 
4. Quickness must work properly in all pets (it doesn't work in like 80% of the pet rooster) 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Teratus.2859]

Hammer is a fine choice for Ranger imo and I do want to see a Bunny Thumper build in Gw2 as well lol
So a definite yes to a Rabbit creature pet.

Hell you could even go with Juvanile Springer as one of the new pets which would be something I would honestly love to see in Gw2.
Expand on that even!!

How about this, In/Before/After End of Dragons we get a new achievement questline/s put into the game similarly to the ones we did for the Skyscale and Rollar Beetle mounts.
These quests involve some item gathering, crafting and hunting down some specific NPC's and creatures all over the world not just in Cantha. (please no annoying time limits though)

The end result when you complete these achievement lines is that you get to Breed your mount and unlock a juvenile variant of that mount creature in your Home Instance/s for your Ranger characters to tame as normal Ranger Pets and take on your adventures with you!
If possible too the skin and colours of the Juvenile mount pet would actually mimic that of your currently equipped mount as well, and would naturally change as you changed your mount skins.

All the F2 abilities for these pets can even Mimic the Dismount attacks.
Juvenile Raptor does a small AoE pull.
Juvenile Springer does a small AoE knockdown.
Juvenile Skimmer does a rush attack similar to Electric Wyvern that does low damage and heals allies in it's path.
Juvenile Sand Jackel pounces dealing some damage and providing a bit of barrier to allies near the target.
Juvenile Griffon inflicts power damage and can interrupt a foes skill.
Juvenile Warclaw mauls the target inflicting bleeding damage and cripple.
Juvenile Rollar Beetle rushes through target like the Skimmer and E-Wyvern launching enemies flying.
Juvenile Skyscale leaps up in the air and breaths fire on the target, burning them and leaving a fire combo field at the location.

Ranger players have often requested things in Gw2 that would improve or increase the immersion for Rangers and the bond they are supposed to have with pets.

If something like this was implemented as a way to obtain new pets, I think for at least these specific creatures you would have that element.
Plus if they can get the pet mimicing your mount skin and colours to work then that add's a whole new level of appeal for buying mount skins and dyes.. well at least for players who enjoy playing Rangers anyway 😄 

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/8/2021 at 5:31 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

 

True but this would be a pet and weapon agnostic port.

That would then depend on the utilities and traits from the new spec. Nothing stopping a Ranger Hammer from having a block on it like GS does, or 3 evades like other ranger weapon combos.

I dunno the core design is so butchered by the nerfs durign the years that Anet would need to transform the new spec in Druid tank 2.0 . I like your ideas but we already have had experience with a bruiser type made from one trait line/f5. 

 

And we already know what happened to druid once the Anet begun to swing the hammer nerf. 

 

Hammer sounds fun but i insisnt we should not request gameplay from new specs which should be on core in some way. 

[Lazze.9870]

3 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I dunno the core design is so butchered by the nerfs durign the years that

 

Not really, it's "just" a flawed profession mechanic. The worst skills/traits were always bad.