easy way to make warrior viable in pvp

[Vinny.7260]

So it's really hard to say it's specifically one-sided in matches. 

 

If we compare both 'meta' builds for Warrior and Thief, you can see where the tie can come into play. 

 

It is a HUGE skill matchup instead of a huge counter matchup. 

 

Good Thieves will be wary of Magebane's Tether, good Warriors will be wary of blinds and SHORTBOW. 

 

A good Thief is going to bait bursts into blinds, a good Warrior is going to bait blinds to burst/use skills like Bull's Charge to negate blinds to track into Stealth since it evades. 

 

A good Thief will abuse Clusterbomb + Choking Gas to pressure the Warrior. A good Warrior is going to kite off node or bait them into going on the node. 

 

It isn't just a blank slate of yes/no for winning. 

 

A good Thief is going to outplay the Warrior's ability to reveal/pull.

 

A good Warrior is going to outplay the D/P stealth/dodge steals. 

 

It's hand-in-hand.

 

It's worth mentioning there are Thieves like Primal using Smokescreen to counter the matchup heavily since Warrior has no Resistance to counter it easily. In that case, the Thief should win.

 

Then you have some Warriors who will use Featherfoot Grace to counter the Thief. In that case, the Warrior will win. 

 

Core War into Core Thief, Core Thief will probably win if S/D or P/D. 

 

Spellbreaker into Core Thief, Spellbreaker will probably win because of the pull and block. 

 

Core War into Daredevil, massive advantage to the Daredevil due to Dash, SA, and unblockable steal. 

 

Berserker (LUL) into Core Thief, massive advantage to the Thief because of the 12s of downtime on Berserker if you stall. 

 

Core War into Deadeye, massive advantage to Deadeye because of the insane ranged pressure, engage with S/D and Mercy + steal combo. 

 

If we're considering all possible factors, it's just going to be a tie overall. Core War could use reveal just to counter, etc. Core Thief can just stack blinds/save blinds specifically for bursts or scary skills. You can blind/interrupt Bull's Charge last frame (LUL). 

 

 

[Myror.7521]

@kybraga.7103 if you see that warriors only way to actually made a thief in trouble is cc him (if thief dont get teleport cc brake left) or tether him that he could stealth. Compared to a thief that could actually blind spam , simply ignore full counter, go instealth, or simply dodge all warr skills. Then no its not a skill caped match ub lol.

[RedAvenged.5217]

40 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Nnno, that's right.

 

Shadow shot, blinding powder, headshot, smokescreen and steal can all be applied so liberally that warrior, which depends on single strikes for bursts, often cannot land those hits. These moves often also come out much faster than any of warrior's hits, or instantly.

 

They also vomit weakness on any attack after dodging (which makes any hits that make it through the above have a 50% chance to do negligible damage) and have an unblockable swipe if dd, which is up twice as often as warrior shield stance and puts it on cd immediately. They are mechanically warrior's counter, and a good thief should very often win this matchup. While getting hit by anything a warrior does will likely make a thief gasp and wheeze for breath, a good thief can control the fight and their positioning so the warrior is not in a position to land anything at all (or, if they are running mending which, lets face it 99% of them are, heal.)

 

I'm not saying thief is op for these factors, but I'd appreciate it if you understood the mechanical advantage they have. 

 

 

 

 

I wonder why, in all the major 1v1 tournaments in the past year, that thief performance was poor and wars was good and in fact top teir.

 

heck how come I’ve never see a warrior with 3 brain cells finding this match up hard- considering how convincing people on the forums are

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

heck how come I’ve never see a warrior with 3 brain cells finding this match up hard- considering how convincing people on the forums are

 

Would you like to pick up a warrior and fight my thief? I secondary that class and I'm probably decent enough to prove my point. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

2 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Would you like to pick up a warrior and fight my thief? I secondary that class and I'm probably decent enough to prove my point. 

😂😂😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

😂😂😂

 

So that's a no?

 

 

Quote

I wonder why, in all the major 1v1 tournaments in the past year, that thief performance was poor and wars was good and in fact top teir.

 

 

because, while thief hard counters warrior 1v1, it does not counter other classes 1v1 nearly as hard. 

 

Also, again, 1v1 is not a metric that is rewarded outside of community hosted tournaments, so I don't know why you're so insistent on balancing around it. The game had to be adjusted by the players agreeing on rules to make a space for warrior to compete, that should be indicative of a conclusion other than the one you're reaching. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[RedAvenged.5217]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

So that's a no?

 

 

 

 

because, while thief hard counters warrior 1v1, it does not counter other classes 1v1 nearly as hard. 

 

Also, again, 1v1 is not a metric that is rewarded outside of community involvement, so I don't know why you're so insistent on balancing around it. If that were the case thief should be weaker. 

😂😂😂😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

😂😂😂😂

 

 

On 7/23/2021 at 3:01 PM, RedAvenged.5217 said:

but anyway I think we are done here if you are going to mock people not in the conversation at all

 

 

I'm glad we had this chat, have a good day.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Grand Marshal.4098]

See this was OK pre patch when Berserker's stance, Featherfoot Grace and Revenge Counter all had a meaningful purpose with resistance. 

 

No warrior will now want to run a resistance utility to counter a thief's blinds when the enemy team has Scourges or condi Mirages etc. Because resistance is total kitten against actual condition dmg and a warrior would rather run shake it off and some stab or some invuln stun break over resistance post-resolution. 

 

The resolution change shook the thief vs warrior matchup towards thief's favor. I don't think anyone can disagree there. If you can, back your claims. 

[Vinny.7260]

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

See this was OK pre patch when Berserker's stance, Featherfoot Grace and Revenge Counter all had a meaningful purpose with resistance. 

Absolutely. Featherfoot Grace was absolutely able to help against condis with its duration, etc. Then they made it so it doesn't even affect POISON. (They need to make it so Poison reduced healing is negated by Resistance...) 

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

No warrior will now want to run a resistance utility to counter a thief's blinds when the enemy team has Scourges or condi Mirages etc. Because resistance is total kitten against actual condition dmg and a warrior would rather run shake it off and some stab or some invuln stun break over resistance post-resolution. 

I'd like to see Defense make a come back in some way (In a way that doesn't kitten the entire spec into doing no damage.) Cleansing Ire could seriously change the MU if the rest of the traitline wasn't awkward/a waste. 

 

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

The resolution change shook the thief vs warrior matchup towards thief's favor. I don't think anyone can disagree there. If you can, back your claims. 

Absolutely. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

11 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

See this was OK pre patch when Berserker's stance, Featherfoot Grace and Revenge Counter all had a meaningful purpose with resistance. 

 

No warrior will now want to run a resistance utility to counter a thief's blinds when the enemy team has Scourges or condi Mirages etc. Because resistance is total kitten against actual condition dmg and a warrior would rather run shake it off and some stab or some invuln stun break over resistance post-resolution. 

 

The resolution change shook the thief vs warrior matchup towards thief's favor. I don't think anyone can disagree there. If you can, back your claims. 

Literally no one played those because they haven’t helped with any warrior match up for the past year or 2.

 

I know people already don’t believe people on the forums who are just hiding their mmr, but this isn’t helping

stop it plz

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 Well but he isnt incorrect. Thief is actually warriors hardest counter. Specialy D/P thief

Top teir players site the reason of warrior not being good as thief yeah,

butttttt that’s not because it wins the 1v1- that’s becuz it pluses a 1v1 they are in and kills them.

 

thief loses the 1v1

[Unknown.6851]

5 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 Well but he isnt incorrect. Thief is actually warriors hardest counter. Specialy D/P thief

Thief is ONE counter, I wouldn’t agree that it is the hardest counter. That spot is reserved for condi Mesmer, core or mirage for the raw clone output and the unfortunate mechanic of tab, tab, tab targeting until you find the Mesmer again. Good luck doing this on a burst class without tether or very reliable condi clear for those 4 constant damaging  conditions that mirage can apply in a second.

 

Another counter would be condi necro, guardian in general, thieves, holosmiths etc.

Edited July 27, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[Unknown.6851]

On 7/25/2021 at 5:39 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

What are you talking about? No class can currently trade blows with a warrior at melee range, they all kite till it's safe to get up close, every class can briefly melee a warrior, then all need to back off or risk to be stunlocked to death, the gist of playing warrior is to get close to the target 

But who cares? All said class needs to do is stay ranged and it’s eventually or quickly GG for the warrior. You can sit all day at a comfortable range and throw hammer of the gods at the warrior until they die. Warriors biggest counter is and will always be ranged DPS where the opposing player is able to maintain that distance and keeps just enough escape for those few sweet times that the warrior can catch up to them and get melee range. It’s an awful cycle.

 

Warrior is just too slow (25% MS) to be able to keep up in general to any player that knows how to keep distance.

Edited July 27, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[CutesySylveon.8290]

14 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Then you would be wrong.

 

laughably wrong. No wonder I got the vibe that you were saying something insanely incorrect.

Saying everyone is wrong without giving any arguments to back it up or refute the countless explanations backing up the warrior losing the match-up vs thief is just you putting your fingers in your ears and going "Nu-uh!".

 

Either explain or just go away, this is embarrassing. 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

14 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by CutesySylveon.8290

[CutesySylveon.8290]

14 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by CutesySylveon.8290

[CutesySylveon.8290]

14 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by CutesySylveon.8290

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Thank the mobile version for the quad post. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

55 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Saying everyone is wrong without giving any arguments to back it up or refute the countless explanations backing up the warrior losing the match-up vs thief is just you putting your fingers in your ears and going "Nu-uh!".

 

Either explain or just go away, this is embarrassing. 

Bro there are no countless explanations, everyone knows thief is mediocre in 1v1s- like yeah u can pressure a few class, but you won’t win.

 

even noobfest, who’s a war main that got top 10 when rating actually mattered is saying it’s not as good as u guys think. It someone we all know, we all know war is weak too, but lying about what it’s weak too won’t help

[Ryuk.6840]

7 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Bro there are no countless explanations, everyone knows thief is mediocre in 1v1s- like yeah u can pressure a few class, but you won’t win.

 

even noobfest, who’s a war main that got top 10 when rating actually mattered is saying it’s not as good as u guys think. It someone we all know, we all know war is weak too, but lying about what it’s weak too won’t help

He said  :

Thief is ONE counter 🙂

[Damocles.4908]

Conditions for a warrior is a bit harder now that resistance and resolve are separate boons now, but I have some cleansing ideas for you that I use quite a bit with the maradur, rabid or swashbuckler:

 

rune of warrior + (discipline) cleanse weapon swap + sigil of cleanse,= faster removal and double removal on swap

 

Rune of Orr or meladrew for reduced time and health bonus

 

If you have to choose a different trait line over discipline...then I am not sure since I play core most of the time but mix, match test

[Avatar.3568]

On 7/24/2021 at 9:27 PM, ZDragon.3046 said:

still wondering why 1v1 even matters and why viability is based upon it from someone who claims to be plat 3+

Necro is one of the worst classes to 1v1 on even more so under core and reaper this must mean it needs buffs because it is unviable.

 

 

That's why a reaper won the last big 1vs1 tournament 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Avatar.3568

[CutesySylveon.8290]

8 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Bro there are no countless explanations, everyone knows thief is mediocre in 1v1s- like yeah u can pressure a few class, but you won’t win.

 

even noobfest, who’s a war main that got top 10 when rating actually mattered is saying it’s not as good as u guys think. It someone we all know, we all know war is weak too, but lying about what it’s weak too won’t help

Again, thief can be bad at 1v1 all day and night, but in the warrior match-up, it's extremely strong because the tools it has directly counter warrior. 

 

We've explained in detail why thief wins this match-up, so now you explain your counter or just stop. You're just making assertions with no argument, which means it can be ignored completely. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

10 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Again, thief can be bad at 1v1 all day and night, but in the warrior match-up, it's extremely strong because the tools it has directly counter warrior. 

 

We've explained in detail why thief wins this match-up, so now you explain your counter or just stop. You're just making assertions with no argument, which means it can be ignored completely. 

You haven’t explained anything.

 

pointing to a random mechanic doesn’t prove a point and in fact you don’t help anyone by singling out that no one even uses.

 

anyways I don’t see why I should believe 2 people that play warrior in silver over plat3 + war mains

Edited July 27, 2021 by RedAvenged.5217