twisted marionette is virtually unwinnable for a casual group

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

organized groups => organized in terms of knowing the basic mechanics and familiar with raids and have proper builds and willing to participate fairly for the rewards and not afk (to put it mildly, min 50li+ requirement or some acceptable asc/exotic gear ping requirement to make sure ppl who are serious about getting the kill are allowed in the squad) so griefers, afkers wont be in the mix to sabotage the encounter

Yes. I was in some of those as well. The only ones i've seen succeed so far were those that insisted on most players going scourge (incidentally, the full scourge group i've sen that won was the least organized one, with a number of truly casual players in it).

 

Quote

the way I see it, even with a few survival open world build, bear bow pew pew , we wont fail if ppl has the clear intention to participate pay attention and give it their best... Its their will.. that's all it matters that determines the success of the encounter

No, it's not. All it's required for the platform fight to fail is any sort of wonkiness in assigning people to the platforms. Usually when a single peson gets assigned to some platform, it's aproblem. In cases where no players get assigned to a platform (even if the platforms nearby have 2 players both), it's obviously an automatic fail as well.

 

Quote

 

even then if organized groups fail, it could be maybe one time and they wont fail a second time...

I saw a very organized group with raiders in it (and a lot of people that remembered the original marionette, and/or attempted it earlier on the same day, and knew the mechanics) fail 6 times in a row. Always due to some very small hiccup that is hard to completely eradicate in a group this size.

 

Edit: at the same time the public squads generally have far easier time, even if they are filled with mostly casual players. Which clearly suggests that it's the scaling that is a problem here, nothing else.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, it's not. All it's required for the platform fight to fail is any sort of wonkiness in assigning people to the platforms. Usually when a single peson gets assigned to some platform, it's aproblem. In cases where no players get assigned to a platform (even if the platforms nearby have 2 players both), it's obviously an automatic fail as well.

 

wait... a full sqaud of 50 with 10 in every subgroup... u meant to say a platform might not assign 2 ppl on it and sometimes it might assign 0 ppl and send the remaining 2 from subgroup to other platforms making it 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 0  (or) 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1 ?

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

wait... a full sqaud of 50 with 10 in every subgroup... u meant to say a platform might not assign 2 ppl on it and sometimes it might assign 0 ppl and send the remaining 2 from subgroup to other platforms making it 3 , 3 , 2 , 2 , 0  (or) 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 1 ?

Yes.

 

Edit: notice, that it is a very old issue. It was already present in the original Marionette encounter. It's just when you had 4-5 people on each platform, someone getting sent to a wrong one was far less impactful

Edited July 14, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes.

then it must be a bug.... need confirmation from devs.... i havent encountered such bugs when i did the event nor did I hear other ppl say it. are u sure they didnt die in the platform and use waypoints and claim it didnt assign them the platform? weirdddd

 

next time this happens, make sure to screenshot it including the minimap.. so we can confirm there are indeed more than 2 in a single platform and less than 2 in another platform at the same time

Edited July 14, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[xianvar.6075]

28 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

If u post this, ppl will try to derail the thread.. they'll claim 250 li is too much to ask from normal pve players.... but in reality, determined players with few exotic proper gear and the willingness to participate and not afk, will definitely succeed in this event

Hello, I have come to derail 😉

No, joking aside; the thing is that yeah, I agree that you need a highly organized group to succeed. That's fine! But imo it was not advertised as "only veterans who've been raiding for ages can complete this event." It was advertised as "We want more players to experience the old content!" And then it sucks when people are gatekeeping. I would be gatekept by that requirement -- I only started raiding last week and so have an astonishing five LI to my name. And that's pretty disheartening, because I have enjoyed the Marionette and even enjoyed the tries that failed. But I was in one raider-based squad that gave up after two failed tries (it was half made up of pugs and people had severe issues with following orders, so maybe I just have you more fodder for the "only 250LI and all others can go play AB meta"-argument).

 

I got to know GW2 as a game with very low barrier of entry. It's what made me stick with it when I tried others and stopped after literally a single day. This event... does kinda have a low barrier of entry -- the public versions are somewhat challenging (as in, the fear of failure is omnipresent even if you've reached lane IV and the cannon is barely charged, because maybe people in lane one afk'd since it was going so well and then lane five fails theirs, lane one isn't prepared, and boom, failure) which will probably get easier as the event moves on; Squads are there for the people needing external validation that they are Good Hardcore Players with their lovely LIs and those needing more of a challenge. The issue is that the Public Instance will be gone (as of the current communication) at the end of the week, leaving only the tryhards. And sorry, even if I had the LIs, I really don't want to play content with those kinds of players asking to see them 😉

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by xianvar.6075
typo, smol clarification

[Mayga.7241]

8 hours ago, Jokuc.3478 said:

1. No, if I can solo a warden before the duo next to me kills theirs it's not impossible to kill, you're just bad.

They are not bad, it is you who are toxic and dont understand that all your elitism can be spread only in raids with certain requirements. You should stop shaming people just because they have no experience. Real pro don't allow themselves to do that, lol. Coz, it look ridiculous.

[Geckoo.6018]

This kind of massive events, like it or not, rely on good players being able to carry not so good players. If things like octovine, chak gerent or dragon's stand are usually successful is usually because there are a bunch of players that are able and willing to adapt to things as they come.

 

This event fails to leave enough room for other players to fix someone's else mistake. No matter how good you are, how much CC and damage you put on your lane, how easy you can solo your platform... if someone else fails to do their platform for whatever reason, things go wrong for everyone very quickly and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Basically, 50 players is too tight for the way the event is designed. In my opinion mobility between platforms should be allowed once your platform is cleared, maybe not immediately, but there needs to be some way for players to help out or fix mistakes other than a buff button.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Geckoo.6018

[Pifil.5193]

11 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I joined it in a public event and it was fun and overall a piece of cake. only one lane failed. 

 

The fight on the platform was a lot shorter than I remembered it from the past.

 

Give it a few days so most players can adjust and then the overall success rate will increase.

 

Yeah, I was part of four failed squad events then joined the public instance and it was no problem. 15+ people in my squad means at least 3 per platform, no problem.

 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

maybe ppl would come out with a strategy to improve success of these events.. like how TTT is organized..

 

example of one such wild strategy that came to my mind: ppl in lane 1 and lane 2 shd be more experienced players and once the portal for lane 3 opens up and all ppl from lane3 entered the portal, 5 ppl from lane 1 who now have their debuff timer expired can enter lane3 portal just after the last person from lane3 has entered the portal and increase the success rate so there would be 3 ppl on each platform and all the while the remaining 5 ppl in lane1 who are experienced can hold off the hordes of monsters in lane 1 and since the success rate is improved for lane3 platforms, they all can return quick and go back to their lanes and even out the pressure.. and repeat it for lane 4 with ppl from lane 2...

 

this is just an example.. it could have multiple flaws... but the point is.. ppl can come up with nice strategy to overcome this event

Edited July 14, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[LucosTheDutch.4819]

Trying to lead a squad for Twisted Marionette through LFG for several hours made me lose faith in the GW2 community. Y'all are some inpatient MFers who can't even be bothered to read simple instructions in squad chat. The amount of people who join, rush into the instance (despite both the LFG message as well as the squad message asking not to go into the instance yet) and then leave the squad again is astonishing.

Then when you finally get 50 people who are at least capable of reading the LFG/squad message, you'll still find plenty of people who do not stick to their lane. Like, do y'all not understand Roman numerals, or do you just not bother to read squad chat and check which subgroup you're in? I don't get it.

Then, on top of people not sticking to their lane, it also seems that even to this day there are still people who do not understand breakbars and CC. Again, I took the time and patience to explain this each attempt, but again it's like people just don't read squad chat or just don't bother; they think CC is for other people, not for them.

Twisted Marionette is casual friendly, it just isn't lazy-pepega-trying-to-leech-a-kill-without-putting-in-any-effort-whatsoever friendly.

PS: I do want to add that some of you were extremely lovely. You stuck around, were patient, read squad chat, were willing to learn, and actually improved your gameplay after each attempt. If you were one of those people, I love you, and GW2 needs more players like you. <3

Edited July 14, 2021 by LucosTheDutch.4819
Spreading some love after the salt.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Given my recent experience, I must second what Lucos said. All it takes is one person to ruin the event. If I didn’t know any better, I swear some trolled the public event. It amazed me how inept certain players were. For example, when a lane opened, we had people who stayed behind to fight the champions.

 

Yeah, that was a unique experience.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Ardenwolfe.8590

[Mayga.7241]

5 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

maybe ppl would come out with a strategy to improve success of these events.. like how TTT is organized..

 TTT does not depend on each of 50 ppl. I can't help the neighboring platforms in any way, except for useless special action. So I just stay and look how they die. Or i'm just looking at empty platform because people are standing afk. Or because there was a bug again. 

[SexyMofo.8923]

Anet couldn’t find 50 employees to QA properly. Do they even play their game? 

[Astralporing.1957]

42 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

then it must be a bug....

Yes, it is a bug. Or rather, if i remember it correctly (it's been a few years since it last was in the game, after all) a problem caused by how the mechanic that assigns players to the platform work.

 

Basically, the moment you enter the portal, the game checks how many players are on each platform, and assigns you to one of those with lowest number of players. Problem is, you are not actually on platform until you are placed there. There's a short delay, whose length depends on stuff like your connection and loading times.

 

So, if several players enter the portal at about the same time, the game can assign all of them to th same platform - because even if they are assigned in order, by the time the last person gets their assignment, the first one still is not on any platform yet, so still doesn;t count.

 

And then you find out you assigned players to only 4 platforms, but you just ran out of players. because you happened to assign 3 players to the same platform.

[GonzoNeo.4965]

After 4 privatee Marionette yesterday completing my plataform but the event still failing, i just did a public one today. They are like night and day. The public one is similar to the classic one because allow more people, about 4-5 people per plataform. Sadly is only temporary this weekwich i dont understand why arenanet is doing this.

 

Left both option like dragon storm. Squad 50 people for harder challenge with extra reward. Permanent public for 80 people like the old marionette, more forgiving and can practive the mechanics = players happy. Public only 1 week is a bad planning decision.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

On top of what Astralporing said, if that one person doesn't know what he or she is doing, it's a fail. If the person is pure support, it's a fail. If that person is downed, it's a fail.

 

Again, one person can torpedo the event for everyone.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Ardenwolfe.8590

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, GonzoNeo.4965 said:

After 4 privatee Marionette yesterday completing my plataform but the event still failing, i just did a public one today. They are like night and day. The public one is similar to the classic one because allow more people, about 4-5 people per plataform. Sadly is only temporary this weekwich i dont understand why arenanet is doing this.

 

Left both option like dragon storm. Squad 50 people for harder challenge with extra reward. Permanent public for 80 people like the old marionette, more forgiving and can practive the mechanics = players happy. Public only 1 week is a bad planning decision.

To be honest it doesn;t really matter. Dragonstorm public works, because the whole instance scales down, so even if you can't completely fill it, it's going to be fine. Marionette however doesn;t scale at all - and in a month or two there won't be enough players inerested in it to completely full a public instance anyway.

[LucosTheDutch.4819]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

To be honest it doesn;t really matter. Dragonstorm public works, because the whole instance scales down, so even if you can't completely fill it, it's going to be fine. Marionette however doesn;t scale at all - and in a month or two there won't be enough players inerested in it to completely full a public instance anyway.

Debatable. 8 year old core Tyria world bosses still get completely full map instances every single day, I don't see why Twisted Marionette wouldn't. It's a fun boss with decent rewards.

[Woof.8246]

By removing the public option , i wonder for how long it will be populated .

I really don't  hope  after 2 months , the players that use "natural selection" (KP - Li) , will stop it too and then whine to the company for "not enought rewards" :P .

 

Rather than 2 months on/off public (it will work btw  ! , alternating with different old content every 2-3 days  , so none get boring)  ,

make it so that by doing events/gather , you get currency . As long as you gather it you get the "status" of "online" and you can join a random  public content every few hours . You can trade 500 of that currency for a "mega-soulstone-currency" that "preferably-but-still-randomly-if-not-enought-people " will call to your soul  to a specific content you want .

Edit2: 

That way 100 people , will choose they beloved hopefully-diferent-content tp spice things up , and not some1 guessing-seeing the data and choosing

edit3:

Or the "mega-soulstone-currency"  , in the 3rd lunar day will have gathered enought energy to grand your wish (succefully joining that specific Raid or  Hot open world )

But the first option will cost less and it has the same succes

 

Also in daily logins , each account have a quirk -random effect , that you can diactivate .

You see the world gray (aviator glasses) , but you see trail to a reward / blood stains for a "rare mob" , or a mob that is collored and give you hints , where his boss is .

You see darker >avoid the tentacles even in boss battle . They do 1 damage >but dont let the stacks to exceed 25-every 10 min  for some minor rewads .

You dont have a downstate in WvW , but you get a ranged 2.5 sec finisher (that can be cc-ed)

edit:

Or 5 random PvE player will be assigned in an event in WvWvW , while they have each  Golems or the flaming trycycle or any other new light  viecle to capture a Place or kill 5 enemies , or damage each building gates by 25% HP >catch up mechanic for lesser WvW servers to exploit  

Or if there are not enought people -offtime ,  every 4 hours 50 pve player can "transform"  1 of the 4  parts of  the WvW in a PvE  Silverwaste  area (still points are keep rolling)  and the WvW players that played for more than 1 hour , will transform into PvE mob , protecting their normal investement .

The less defender >better stats their NPC form takes , or they get improved gigantic forms , while some others becomes ghost  so they count as low amount defender and their only job  is build and interact with Basistra and other weapons .

The zerg will stay for 30 min and the bases captured will be split among the lowest server > the zerg will do the "equilizer job"

 

For pvp , in none tournamnts days , each player can choose among 3 options >they loose 300 main stats or dont benefit from superspeed/swiftness , but a specific attack (which has the most animation) does double damage or they gain stealth or their 2 is replaced a new spell (live action beta testers )?

 

gl

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Woof.8246
new idea 2

[hash.8462]

Up to now, I've finished it 3 times and failed 6;

Players just need to learn what to do, that's all.

The only problematic one is the fisrt boss if you are alone on the platform, all the others are easily soloable.

Edited July 14, 2021 by hash.8462

[Geckoo.6018]

35 minutes ago, LucosTheDutch.4819 said:

Debatable. 8 year old core Tyria world bosses still get completely full map instances every single day, I don't see why Twisted Marionette wouldn't. It's a fun boss with decent rewards.

Maybe if it was part of the open world, but as instanced content i don't think this is going to age well in terms of player participation. It's the concept of placing this kind of big events on an instance outside of the open world that in my opinion creates a barrier that kind of detracts from one of the strongest points the game has: the world. But i guess time will tell both for this event and dragonstorm.

[LucosTheDutch.4819]

8 minutes ago, Geckoo.6018 said:

Maybe if it was part of the open world, but as instanced content i don't think this is going to age well in terms of player participation. It's the concept of placing this kind of big events on an instance outside of the open world that in my opinion creates a barrier that kind of detracts from one of the strongest points the game has: the world. But i guess time will tell both for this event and dragonstorm.

I see your point. Honestly I love that we are getting 50 men instanced content, reminds me of the good old days of WoW and WoW Classic, but I'm really wondering if GW2 fostered the right crowd for this; too many peepos who want instant gratification without learning mechanics.

[Rasimir.6239]

2 hours ago, xianvar.6075 said:

And sorry, even if I had the LIs, I really don't want to play content with those kinds of players asking to see them 😉

This right here. I am perfectly able at raiding, did so with good success in other games, and occasionally do so in this game, mostly with friends, but it's just not something I can or want to dedicate a full night (much less two) a week to at my time of life. As a result, the number of LI/LD I actually have are negligible, especially compared to what people ask for for private squads.

 

I was never fond of gatekeeping by arbitrary numbers, and I've seen way too many players in my online gaming time (which spans around three decades by now) to know that those numbers don't say anything, both in the positive and negative way. One of the main reasons I play GW2 is that I enjoy playing with a large part of the community that is inclusive and genuinely interested in cooperating with each other. I have no interest in playing with people that think they're better than others for blindly grinding a narrow part of the available content, but are unable to actually adapt to the people they play with or to situations where things don't go according to the skript they memorized.

As for the marionette, I saw ugly gatekeeping back when it was first released and some guild decided to hog our low-population server event for themselves, with some of them being outright nasty to the few "natives" that tried to participate. I don't need that kind of stupidity in my gaming time, and reading the forums I doubt I'll ever participate in a private squad encounter.

I did however jump into a public instance this morning that went very smooth. People tagged up, joined squads, coordinated via map chat, provided explanations to those that hadn't done the event or no longer remembered it. We quickly had 5 squads around 15 each without problem, and all lanes succeeded first try. Thanks to everyone that participated, that's the kind of community and event that I enjoy GW2 for 🙂 .

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Peanutz.3129 said:

Except of point 3 I think this points are good.

If other players can help after their platform is cleared it will be way too easy because every lane just needs one player who knows what he is doing

Hence the maybe in all caps..

[Gorem.8104]

From everything I am reading, once this public week is over, unless they change the system to make sure the amount of players you have gets divided perfectly each time, doing this with 50 is going to be extremely time consuming if a platform ends up with no one on it since that means you fail. 

 

Better get it done this week while we still have the larger group sized public runs going. Otherwise... If they did add a system that allows you to change platforms if you finish before the others, that would appear to solve most issues.