Swimsuits; The Gold Standard [Merged]

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Dark clothes will likely cook you alive in a hot region.

Cool, do you not understand that -even if that was true- at no point I asked for some ultra-realism? How is this responding to what I wrote at all? 😄

Edited August 16, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

35 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Cool, do you not understand that -even if that was true- at no point I asked for some ultra-realism? How is this responding to what I wrote at all? 😄

If you don't ask for realism, why do you ask for swimsuits to be used only in realistic scenarios?

If you don't mind other skins to be used in unrealistic ways, swimsuits should be fine in unrealistic scenarios as well.

 

[Sobx.1758]

48 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If you don't ask for realism, why do you ask for swimsuits to be used only in realistic scenarios?

If you don't mind other skins to be used in unrealistic ways, swimsuits should be fine in unrealistic scenarios as well.

That's not what I wrote, go back to the initial post you quoted and re-read to make sure you understand what you're responding to. And then, without change: do you not understand that -even if that was true- at no point I asked for some ultra-realism? How is this responding to what I wrote at all?

[Zebulous.2934]

as I recall, one problem that the European crusaders had was that they refused to adopt local clothing and insisted in traveling during the day.  Many died of heat stroke or dehydration.
While it is cannon that Kasmeer's clothing is a mesmer illusion.   Some people dislike the idea of other classes using similar explanations. 
I think that it isn't so much about the environmental suitability of wearing a bathing suit so much as it is about thematic suitability.   At least that is my theory about the bathing suit objections.
While Asurian tech and mesmer mind tricks could explain away all of fashion wars, some people say no.

Personally I think that the elite pact soldiers are all insane, and that the visual manifestation of that insanity (fashion wars) is ignored and tolerated because the elites (player characters) are able to kill forces of nature (dragons).   It would explain the lack of reaction the npcs have during cutscenes.  Would you walk up to a demigod and tell them what they can, and cannot wear?
 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Zebulous.2934
an Npc's name

[Fueki.4753]

13 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I think that it isn't so much about the environmental suitability of wearing a bathing suit so much as it is about thematic suitability.
 

As far as I am aware, Arenanet themselves hasn't put out a statement anywhere.

And if thematic suitability was the reason, why does this very same reason not apply to literally every other kind of skin? Also, the environment is part of the theme of a map, so you can't split those two apart.

Why can people use SAB skins outside of the box (and a single story mission), when they don't thematically fit outside?Why can people use skimpy skins, in subzero region, when it doesn't thematically fit? Why are swimsuits the only type of skin that should adhere to any kind suitability?

At the end of the day, there simply are half a Skritt's hand full of individuals who hate on specifically one type of armour skin for no reason other than "I don't want to see it" or simply to troll players who want it.

It'd probably even be quicker money for Arenanet to release them than to create entirely new armour sets from scratch. The skins already are there, so a chunk of the work already is done.

Also, given that they release thematic unsuitable garbage like the cat bot skin or the cat outfit, thematic suitability is not a viable argument.

[Zebulous.2934]

@Fueki.4753 I was speculating as to why some players don't want swimsuits in the game.  Just trying to think of why any player wouldn't want swimsuits.  I kinda figured that environmental realism wouldn't be one of their main reasons, so perhaps swimsuits are against how those players feel that the game should be.  

I have already speculated extensively as to why Anet has been so slow to add swimsuits, written on several pages in this thread in fact. 
I do want swimsuits added to the game.
I understand that people aren't going to read 35 pages of a thread to learn other players' opinions.  I certainly don't expect people to keep names straight as to which people in the thread are for or against the topic.
good enthusiasm!

[Fueki.4753]

56 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

perhaps swimsuits are against how those players feel that the game should be. 

But then they would also be against other things that simply do not fit into the game. Yet only wanting swimsuits seem to receive this amount of "opposition" (unless I forgot something).

Or these people are just trolling for the sake of it.

56 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I have already speculated extensively as to why Anet has been so slow to add swimsuits, written on several pages in this thread in fact.

Maybe some of the influencers and streamers need to publicly utter that wish as well. Maybe they are more likely to listen to those types of people, instead of the wider playerbase.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

But then they would also be against other things that simply do not fit into the game.

 

I am against such, like the aforementioned SAB skins for an example.  But my opinion doesn't matter.  Only Anet's opinion matters.

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And if thematic suitability was the reason, why does this very same reason not apply to literally every other kind of skin?

Is it really somehow still not clear that this is the reason? And sure, it should be the same for some of the other stuff (but I'm not talking about your attempts to stretch it far into some hyper-realistism, wether your theories were correct or not), but apparently you're under the impression that since something I dislike might already be in the game, it means I should somehow blindly support -or at least not be against- more stuff I dislike being added into the game? Since when is this how that works? 

Meanwhile after people in this thread claimed they want to go on boats or beaches wearing swimming suits, the moment there are ideas made about things like changing tents in relevant zones or underwater wimming suit skin, they're so surprised anything like that could even be suggested.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zebulous.2934]

I mostly want to strut around ministers waypoint. Splashing through a shallow creek in queensdale is also appealing.  A rebreather outfit or changing tents would not allow those.

I admit that I would avoid wearing a swimsuit in the snowy areas.  I just don't like the idea of being that cold.  I suppose people might feel similarly to wearing a swimsuit in non swimming areas.  

I comprehend, but I don't want to be restricted.

[Fueki.4753]

4 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I admit that I would avoid wearing a swimsuit in the snowy areas.  I just don't like the idea of being that cold.

Some player want exactly that.

I've met players ingame that have lamented how the Norn-themed armours are still covering too much for their Norn-fantasy of running half-naked through the icy mountains.

The two sets of Tattoo armour may help with that, but not everyone is into body paint.

[Zebulous.2934]

I just had a thought. Pure speculation.  What if the reason that we don't have swimsuits, or legendary rebreathers, is because the dev team has standing orders to forbid anything that reminds the player base of aquatic combat.

When was the last time any class had aquatic skills listed in the balance patch notes?  Are any water skills adjusted for pvp? 

Personally I think players want swimsuits for fashion,  and legendary rebreathers to complete their wardrobe.  

Was some dev in the past afraid that when we got these things we would demand that aquatic combat be fixed?

Skiffs are an interesting case.  They reinforce the idea that water combat is annoying.  We are there to fish and we keep getting interrupted by mobs.  It gives aquatic combat a negative connotation, and makes it a chore.

Personally I don't think that swimsuits and legendary rebreathers would lead to a desire to fight in the water.

[Gibson.4036]

On 8/17/2023 at 11:06 PM, Zebulous.2934 said:

I mostly want to strut around ministers waypoint. Splashing through a shallow creek in queensdale is also appealing.  A rebreather outfit or changing tents would not allow those.

I admit that I would avoid wearing a swimsuit in the snowy areas.  I just don't like the idea of being that cold.  I suppose people might feel similarly to wearing a swimsuit in non swimming areas.  

I comprehend, but I don't want to be restricted.

There are some hot spring areas for taking a warm dip in the Shiverpeaks.

[Sobx.1758]

23 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

There are some hot spring areas for taking a warm dip in the Shiverpeaks.

That's right, perfect place to set up changing tents with limited swimsuit usage zones in their close proximity.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sugar Min.5834]

Honestly, I don't see the concerns to have players put up changing tents (like the ones in Southsun Cove and Labyrinthine Cliffs) in selective non-combat zones like guild halls or in hot spring areas/coves. I think this is a good way to encourage social interactions outside combat zones, away from attacking mobs.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[Derktarlms.6213]

a bathing suit pack, action to nail a beach umbrella to the ground, beach chair and a dolphin skin for the manta ray😆

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, Min Min.9368 said:

Honestly, I don't see the concerns to have players put up changing tents (like the ones in Southsun Cove and Labyrinthine Cliffs) in selective non-combat zones like guild halls or in hot spring areas/coves. I think this is a good way to encourage social interactions outside combat zones, away from attacking mobs.

People want to have swimsuits available everywhere. They want it to be part of their character fashion. They don't want it being sidelined in some far off corner.

If you can't see that, maybe you need better glasses.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Zebulous.2934]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

 

If you can't see that, maybe you need better glasses.

 A bit unnecessary.  It does not help the cause to be insulting.  Such a childish insult at that.  Are you a double agent? You say that you want swimsuits, but then you keep lashing out for no productive purpose.  It just allows the detractors to point at your comments and say that we are all immature.

I am always suspicious when an internet "ally" behaves badly.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

 A bit unnecessary.

If you considered that as insulting, that's your interpretation. It wasn't meant that way.

That sentence was meant as a signal for you to rethink about how people want to use swimsuits, as everyone thinking the tents are the way to go either missed or simply ignores what players want when they want swimsuit armour skins.

People want to use them everywhere, just like people can be disgustingly bright light bulbs everywhere. Reducing swimsuits to few selected heaps of sand objectively does not give players what they want when they want swimsuit armour skins.

As you didn't understand seem to realize that those proposed tents are the exact opposite of what we want, it does not seem unnecessary to ask you to think about this matter again.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Sobx.1758]

58 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If you considered that as insulting, that's your interpretation. It wasn't meant that way.

That sentence was meant as a signal for you to rethink about how people want to use swimsuits, as everyone thinking the tents are the way to go either missed or simply ignores what players want when they want swimsuit armour skins.

People want to use them everywhere, just like people can be disgustingly bright light bulbs everywhere. Reducing swimsuits to few selected heaps of sand objectively does not give players what they want when they want swimsuit armour skins.

As you didn't understand seem to realize that those proposed tents are the exact opposite of what we want, it does not seem unnecessary to ask you to think about this matter again.

The person you just responded to isn't even the same person you weirdly lashed out on before.
And if you want to talk about reading thread then if you actually read the thread, people were saying they want to use them on the beaches or on skiffs. Changing tents are a good idea, with potential to group up people for non-combat activities.

[Zebulous.2934]

Hmm Fueki was lashing out at me earlier, I wonder if they thought that Min Min was me as well. 
I have mixed up people before, fortunately I became so embarrassed that I started to read the names instead of looking at the avatar thumbnails.

Becoming visibly upset in the comments isn't going to help my position.  The thread is over a year old, no single person is going to suddenly "win the thread." 
There is no point in using aggressive phrasing, unless the goal is to upset people.  You don't persuade onlookers by being mean to your opponents.  That is why I am suspicious of the aggression. 

[Fueki.4753]

34 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Hmm Fueki was lashing out at me earlier, I wonder if they thought that Min Min was me as well. 
I have mixed up people before, fortunately I became so embarrassed that I started to read the names instead of looking at the avatar thumbnails.

And then there also are people with multiple accounts, who switch between them to hold a "discussion" with the goal of making it look like multiple people are against a single other person.

34 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

There is no point in using aggressive phrasing, unless the goal is to upset people.  You don't persuade onlookers by being mean to your opponents.  That is why I am suspicious of the aggression. 

And this is why I usually don't assume any aggression or intended insult, unless the choice of words explicitly shows it. Text doesn't convey the intended tone.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

people were saying they want to use them on the beaches or on skiffs.

potential to group up people for non-combat activities.

And other people wrote again and again that they want to use them as armour skin, which means they want to use them everywhere.

You can still your mentioned activities in swimsuits, when said swimsuits are armour skins. But other people, who want to use swimsuits everywhere, can also do that with swimsuits being armour skins.

Making it an armour set will also allow Arenanet to sell it, letting them make money off the swimsuits.

This is the best way to make all involved parties happy.

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 Changing tents are a good idea

And that's where you are objectively wrong. Tents would literally do nothing but limit where it can be used.

What is the upside in limiting a potential armour skin to a specific amount of locales?

Even if they sold your tents on the store, those would result in less sales than selling swimsuits as armour skins.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And then there also are people with multiple accounts, who switch between them to hold a "discussion" with the goal of making it look like multiple people are against a single other person.

And this is why I usually don't assume any aggression or intended insult, unless the choice of words explicitly shows it. Text doesn't convey the intended tone.

And other people wrote again and again that they want to use them as armour skin, which means they want to use them everywhere.

You can still your mentioned activities in swimsuits, when said swimsuits are armour skins. But other people, who want to use swimsuits everywhere, can also do that with swimsuits being armour skins.

Making it an armour set will also allow Arenanet to sell it, letting them make money off the swimsuits.

This is the best way to make all involved parties happy.

And that's where you are objectively wrong. Tents would literally do nothing but limit where it can be used.

What is the upside in limiting a potential armour skin to a specific amount of locales?

Even if they sold your tents on the store, those would result in less sales than selling swimsuits as armour skins.

 

1) You are objectively wrong about swimsuits as armor making, "all involved parties happy."  As some of those involved parties have explicitly expressed a dislike for the idea, it would make some of the parties unhappy.

2) No, he was not objectively wrong about tents being a good idea. It may be subjctively not a good idea though. Since the idea is good for some people and bad for others, purely as a matter of opinion in either case, its merits are subjective rather than objective.

3) Adding tents would expand where swimsuits could be used, just not as much as you like.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Fueki.4753]

21 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

1) You are objectively wrong about swimsuits as armor making, "all involved parties happy."  As some of those involved parties have explicitly expressed a dislike for the idea, it would make some of the parties unhappy.

People who want swimsuits in wet places can use them there. People who want them everywhere can have them anywhere they want. Arenanet, who's job is to make money, would make money. That's everyone who needs to be considered.

People who dislike all the shiny particle vomit are not being considered when Arenanet adds to the particle vomit,. Why would people, who dislike seeing swimsuits on other players' characters, be considered when it comes to the implementation of swimsuits? All "fashion" choices ought to be treated equally.

28 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

2) No, he was not objectively wrong about tents being a good idea. It may be subjctively not a good idea though. Since the idea is good for some people and bad for others, purely as a matter of opinion in either case, its merits are subjective rather than objective.

As already said, swimsuits as armour skins works for everyone who wants swimsuits in one way or another. Tents restrict that. Thus tents objectively are the worse choice for players. And since tents would generate less sales, tents would also be worse for Arenanet.

[kharmin.7683]

25 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And since tents would generate less sales, tents would also be worse for Arenanet.

You don't know this to be true.