Each legend should have 5 utility skills to choose from

Revenant legends are built around themes: for instance Jalis is a bruiser while Shiro is a damage dealer, but what makes a DPS or a tank viable differs from gamemode to gamemode. Not being able to properly customize how we approach certain roles will always be a handicap.

Revenant is by far the least customizable profession of the 9, both on the left and right side of the bar. To make it worse, elite specs add 4 utiltiy skills for everyone while rev only gets 3 (for obvious reasons). I say we shouldn't be punished even further in this area, but compensated.

Let us get 5 utility skills for each legend, (1 more than other professions have per utility type) from which we can select which 3 to use at a time so we can have some degree of control over how we fulfill a role. Of course, these should be in line with the theme of the legend, but such a change could make several aspects of the class more viable in all areas of the game.

This'd also make it easier for Anet to design new legends that are viable in several situations/gamemodes.

I totally agree. I made a post about this on Reddit last week and no one seemed to care or just told me I was wrong because "swapping legends is our customization and that's good enough". Sad.

honestly this would help with a lot of issues including condi cleanse and versatility.

Didn't they plan something like this originally? I remember reading about Jalis being able to call down a giant runestone, meteor-style. Or maybe it was just an early concept for a regular Jalis skil.

Regardless, this would mean a lot to the class.

From a PvE perspective, I have to respectfully disagree. Revenant is limited by having only preselected utilities, yes. However, in combat when the people fighting with me are limited to 1 heal, 3 utilities, and 1 elite; I have double that number. When the revenant was first released I was pretty frustrated by this very same thing. Over time though, I have come to see that this isn't a limitation at all. The trick is to pick the best legends. When other professions are changing utilities between encounters, I am changing legends.

This idea is pretty damn good.

That could ease this Kalla travesty, if they gave us non-summon skills as options.

Hum, I can't argue with that idea ... I preserves the Revenant concept really well and still allows for some customization of the builds.

I could support this. Though I also think it would be interesting to have rev skills work similar to glyphs, in that depending on what legend you're in, the effect of the skill changes slightly to be more in line with that legend. Though that would require more and more work for each new elite spec, so its not practical in the least.

@DKShang.8792 said:1 heal, 3 utilities, and 1 elite; I have double that numberHeals perhaps but most of those revenant heals are very pedestrian comparing to what the other classes have, besides other classes have lots of other means to heal up or have high invulnerability uptimes (shroud for necro, improvisation for pvp thief and Invigorating Precision for pve thief for example). As for utilities I can't remember when I spammed utilities or elites without getting myself effectively killed thanks to this horrendous energy system. You simply cannot use those utilities, most the time it's just couple of weapons skills + one utility. Such variety, much wow.

@MaxwellM.2075 said:I totally agree. I made a post about this on Reddit last week and no one seemed to care or just told me I was wrong because "swapping legends is our customization and that's good enough". Sad.

Due to the upvote/downvote system, Reddit is essentially a hivemind dominated by mindless groupthink where most ideas representing any sort of change, no matter how beneficial or common-sense, get downvoted by sheeple who don't understand the purpose of downvoting and therefore never gain traction or come under proper discussion. It's basically the Walmart of internet communities, and I'm so glad they went in a different direction with the official forums.

The biggest reason I think this would be important is because the #1 problem the Revenant has from a gameplay perspective is being too restrictive/pigeonholing and lacking any fluidity, which is a problem no other class has. It essentially translates into legends having very limited synergy with each other, which renders the whole feature of legend swapping kind of pointless. This is the reason they had to add weapon swapping, and that was a poor band-aid fix, as Revenant weapons have the exact same problem that their legends do. The Revenant in a nutshell is an awesome concept with a very shoddy execution, and it needs to be fixed.

Having two extra utility skills per legend would allow space for legends to become much more fluid and hybridizable with each other. It needs to happen, period - Revenant will never feel complete or polished otherwise.

@DKShang.8792 said:From a PvE perspective, I have to respectfully disagree. Revenant is limited by having only preselected utilities, yes. However, in combat when the people fighting with me are limited to 1 heal, 3 utilities, and 1 elite; I have double that number. When the revenant was first released I was pretty frustrated by this very same thing. Over time though, I have come to see that this isn't a limitation at all. The trick is to pick the best legends. When other professions are changing utilities between encounters, I am changing legends.

Except that there's virtually no synergy between the different legends, so being able to swap them out is generally only useful as a way to restore energy, which is an addon mechanic no other class even is even burdened with. The only time legend swapping feels like it's supposed to is if you're running Celestial stats, but then you're just gimping yourself in a different way (if they would add concentration and expertise to Celestial - then we'd be talking a different story).

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement - customization is very important in an MMO, and Revenants don't have enough of it - they need more choices and more gameplay fluidity than they have. You should be able to slot in skills into each legend that allows them to be hybridized to some extent and helps bridge the functionality gaps between the different legends. There are probably alternative approaches to just adding new utility skills for each legend, but I'm not convinced any are as good.

I have a Solution for improving the Revenant’s performance as well as their customization. Give Legends more Skills to pick from.the best solution is to give Legends more abilties to choose from. Doesnt need to be a lot more. simply a few additions, that maybe change the combat element of the legend.Example:Centaur-Could have a skill that AoE roots around the Tablet and transfer health from the victim to allies near the Revenant.-another skill can provide pulses of healing, while providing random boons-Another skill could cripple enemies and damage them over time with pulses.——————————————————————————————-Dwarf-Could have a skill that summons a Dwarf minion with heavy CC and upkeep that deals good damage while transferring partial damage to the revenant to itself.-another skill could be a Storm Weapon Conjure that changes the weapon of the Revenant into a Storm Weapon with additional skills and require upkeep.-another skill is a AoE Damage skill that summons a Lighting Hammer and Spin around similar to Warrior Axe 5 skill for 4 seconds.—————————————————————————————-Demon-could have a skill that functions as a close range melee attack that increase the duration of conditions while healing allies for percentage of the damage.

• another skill could transform the Revenant for upkeep cost into a monster that does some new skills.
• another skill could summon a stationary ritualist spirit that attacks enemies and buff allies.——————————————————————————————I could go on, but with skills like this, and the option to change them into the Legend skill line up, would help greatly in giving Revenant’s more customization to builds while keeping the Legend mechanic system.

Dwarf (Legend)Conjure Mountain StormAxe (Utility)- conjure a Great Axe of Lighting and Rock(Hammer modeled into Great axe thats all) with 5 Weapon Skills of its own. Cost Upkeep for use.Call of the Dolyak Rider (Utility) – summon a Dolyak Dwarf Rider minion to fight to protect you while providing support and damage. Upkeep cost. Dolyak Rider transfers part of the damage taken by the Revenant,to itself using Shielding Hands. Also Heals nearby allies when it deals melee damage.Thunder Fury (Utility) – Summon The Great Dwarven Hammer, and Spin with lighting speed for 4 seconds, dealing AoE damage to enemies. While Spinning, you are a Mobile Lighting Field.Demon (Legend)Souls of the Fallen(Utility) – Rez a targeted down ally to fight as a tormented soul of themselves. Cost Energy initially and Cost upkeep.Demon Shear (Utility) – Strike target with melee punch, that increase duration of all conditions on the target a certain amount (based on condition), and heals nearby allies for each condition on the enemy.Abaddon’s Possession(Utility)- Lose control and transform into a Demonic Oni, with new Weapon skills. Cost Upkeep.———————————————————————————————-Centaur(Legend)Force of Nature(Utility) – Tablet Roots 3 nearby enemies for 4 seconds and pulses Damage every second. 30% chance to knock down enemies on pulse.Pale Tree(Utility – chain) – Tablet plants seed that grows into a Tree.Seed Volley(Chain) – Rain Seeds down from the Tree, that bombard the enemy location with Seeds that explode on contact. Converts 1 Boon into condition.Thorn Bush(Utility) – place torment and bleeding on nearby enemies and retaliation on nearby allies.

The #1 reason this (or something similar) needs to happen is that Revenant legends are lacking in synergy, and this can't be changed since they can't be customized. This renders the whole feature of legend swapping kind of weirdly pointless, which is the whole reason they had to add weapon swapping. Additionally, Revs have half the number of skills other classes do when there's absolutely no justification for that.

Adding two additional skills per legend would be a great way to not only allow for some build customization, but it would also allow you to bridge functionality gaps between different legends, making for more interesting combination possibilities.

We don't even have more than the very minimum of everything. (1 underwater weapon, 2 underwater legends, only as many utility skills as needed to fill our bars and no access to racial skills)

I'm totally in support of this idea, but really, are we ever going to see much beyond the minimum for Rev. It's my favorite heavy class, but it's in serious need of some tlc, like ranger used to be in base game, before pets were useful. (outside bearbow)

I agree, I think there should be a few more utilities for each stance and a few generic invocation utilities to choose from too.

Ideally each stance would have a thematic condi cleanse, like assassin has a skill that cures condis when you successfully evade attacks or something. Revenant can't be the "class thats weak to condis" because this can basically be rephrased as "the class that's weak."

I think making the rev the "class thats weak to condis" is also a cop-out for Anet not putting in the effort to provide more utilities.

@DKShang.8792 said:From a PvE perspective, I have to respectfully disagree. Revenant is limited by having only preselected utilities, yes. However, in combat when the people fighting with me are limited to 1 heal, 3 utilities, and 1 elite; I have double that number. When the revenant was first released I was pretty frustrated by this very same thing. Over time though, I have come to see that this isn't a limitation at all. The trick is to pick the best legends. When other professions are changing utilities between encounters, I am changing legends.

I second @DKShang.8792. In addition to what he said, revenant has the privilege of swapping out skills that are on cooldown, since we are actually swapping out the legend. While others have to wait the full cd before they can reslot a skill, we have the freedom to swap out immediately if out of combat. This is particularly noticeable advantage when it comes to elite skills that can have long cooldowns.

In practise, playing condi renegade I keep my mallyx always on but regularly alternate between jalis and kalla as the second legend depending on encounter and allies. Or, when escorting dolyaks in wvw, I blow herald elite to give superspeed and instantly swap on jalis to blast swiftness on the road - without putting legend swap on cd and being able to keep mallyx available in case an enemy comes and I need to fight. Whereas, if I play tempest and want to give superspeed I must slot the shout and be without my usual utility on my bar for the whole cooldown duration.

@Cinnamonfox.4965 said:

@DKShang.8792 said:From a PvE perspective, I have to respectfully disagree. Revenant is limited by having only preselected utilities, yes. However, in combat when the people fighting with me are limited to 1 heal, 3 utilities, and 1 elite; I have double that number. When the revenant was first released I was pretty frustrated by this very same thing. Over time though, I have come to see that this isn't a limitation at all. The trick is to pick the best legends. When other professions are changing utilities between encounters, I am changing legends.

Weird split here. I agree with Cinnamonfox that the swap not being limited to cooldown is convenient (though my guess is this is unintentional but deemed not worth fixing due to its very limited scope of uses), but I disagree with DKShang. Not counting the heal (which have lengthy cooldowns or low numbers anyway to account for us having two skills), I find that only 1 or at best 2 of the skills on my legend bar are worth using in any given build.

So in a best-case scenario, that is 2 skills per legend or 4 total skills, the same as any profession that has a normal bar of utilities/elites. That is before factoring in any energy limitation, glyphs, or kit/bundle skills. Considering having access to additional utilities is literally the base mechanic of our profession, it makes sense that we should be able to customize to get the number of usable utilities in any build to be more than other professions, limited in quantity usable at a given moment only by our energy mechanic and by the cd of our legend swap.

Otherwise, what purpose does the swap serve other than as yet another limiter giving us access to only half a full utility bar at a time?

[strange phrasing, but I hope that all makes sense]

I have only recently started playing Revenant a few months ago, and I do not use him for much except open world. I spent one of my level 80 boosters on him because I REALLY liked the weapon skills and I actually enjoyed the legend swapping more than I thought I would. I could see the benfits of effectively having 6 utility skills and 2 elite skills and I enjoyed it... for a time. After playing a lot of content I found that the lack of options for utility skill was limiting in the way mentioned in this thread. If I need utilies spread accross my two legends for a singe encounter it makes it quite clumsy to try and use these when needed. This is something which could probably be overcome with practice. However, my MAIN issue with the lack of utility customization is BOREBOM. I am presented with a very limited way of playing this class which was exciting at first but becomes stale and repetative since you cannot customize very much for a particular encounter. So I fully support this idea of having a few additional utilities, whether they are bound to the legends, or neutral skills, or whether they act like elemetalist glyphs I do not mind, but this class really needs this.

Adding utility selection will be great. It will surely help in build diversity, where the class is really lacking.

as mention above other class has only 5 utilities while we have 10. this 10 are fixed depending on our legend choose. so we have more diversity.

the problem lays imo into the utilities and not the numbers of them.

atm jalis offer the least self bunker/sustain utilities. no that much condi cleanse. not that much sustain and the elite still cost too much for very little.although jalis has good ways to pull weakness and stability gives 15% dmg reduction it lack condi cleanse, control, protection, aegis and passive heal. the new trait barrier idea is nice and could see more buff and use in this legend to help him see more sustain bunker uses.

same goes for ventari as our full support. to use it you need high healing power which push you away from dmg builds. even if you want to take it as self support there is no healing with it, low cleanse abilities.you might need healing formula changes. like with no healing power you get increase base healing so other builds could maybe take it to self sustain themselves. and more way to cleanse or better way. like PE should cost 15 nrg and 3 sec cd. so i can focus on more cleansing conditions.

same goes for kalla. the warbands works as necro wells (even the protection trait) but still are killable and cc'd. while necro cast time is 0.25 sec, kallas are 0.75. also they offer no self sustain or support beside the elite and healing skill. in short i think they should cost much less and offer much more. imagine combination of wells and phantasms combine with ammunition. so you could use 2 of each on the battle field.

same goes for mallyx. it almost there (compare to others above) but no self sustain versus condi class. resistance still too high nrg cost.

that is why shiro and herald are the best as they function as dmg dealers build. one is the dmg the other is the sustain with low nrg consumption and good healing and boons to support you and your team.

to sum it up. instead to create more skills try to innovate the exiting ones

@messiah.1908 said:as mention above other class has only 5 utilities while we have 10. this 10 are fixed depending on our legend choose. so we have more diversity.You forgot about F keys