The whole server vs. server thing is a terrible idea imo. Often people in the same guild aren't in the same server, so it makes guilds meeting in WvW impossible. It also causes people to pay money to transfer servers so that they'll get more items in-game. On the other hand, if guilds agreed to fight, both of these problems would be gone. The biggest WvW-like fights would probably be alliances of guilds, but I think that'd work a lot better than the current WvW setup. Thank you for your consideration!

If you can talk Anet into making an open world pvp mega server mirror then I'd be okay with that. Otherwise, you'd get a hyped up and active gvg scene for a month or two and likely end up with a dead old and new version of WvW.

That's pretty much what the arenas in EoTM and Armistice Bastion are for, plus there's supposed to be 15v15 in PvP coming soon apparently.

The first implementation of an arena for GvG purposes in the guild hall was a failure and still is because it uses PvE rulesets and gearing.

Also your mention of alliances of guilds is going to trigger people to make 50 threads about alliances again.

@kash.9213 said:If you can talk Anet into making an open world pvp mega server mirror then I'd be okay with that. Otherwise, you'd get a hyped up and active gvg scene for a month or two and likely end up with a dead old and new version of WvW.

If WvW dies that'd be great. WvW is stuck in perpetual limbo because there aren't enough people who are really into it but it's the best mass player fight the game has so they can't shut it down. If WvW got replaced with something people actually liked maybe we could have new maps, new mounts (like a horse-type mount) and more.

The thing with pure alliance/"guild vs. guild" play is that a lot of us are logging on to play by ourselves at inconvenient times in addition to just running scheduled guild groups. I'm playing solo or as part of an ad-hoc group like 80% of the time.

@Coeruleum.9164 said:The whole server vs. server thing is a terrible idea imo. Often people in the same guild aren't in the same server, so it makes guilds meeting in WvW impossible. It also causes people to pay money to transfer servers so that they'll get more items in-game. On the other hand, if guilds agreed to fight, both of these problems would be gone. The biggest WvW-like fights would probably be alliances of guilds, but I think that'd work a lot better than the current WvW setup. Thank you for your consideration!

Did you miss the memo? GvG scence consistently dies every year before wvw.

@Coeruleum.9164 said:

@kash.9213 said:If you can talk Anet into making an open world pvp mega server mirror then I'd be okay with that. Otherwise, you'd get a hyped up and active gvg scene for a month or two and likely end up with a dead old and new version of WvW.

Yep. Well, a lot of people play it because it's NOT GvG.

I'd bet that should GvG replace WvW as proposed by the OP, it'd last less than a year and then be empty again.

@"ASP.8093" said:The thing with pure alliance/"guild vs. guild" play is that a lot of us are logging on to play by ourselves at inconvenient times in addition to just running scheduled guild groups. I'm playing solo or as part of an ad-hoc group like 80% of the time.

If there were guild alliances, wouldn't you still be able to do that?

I think maybe the optimal thing to do for now would be to leave WvW up but also have different instances of the WvW maps for people who want to do GvG. If enough alliances form that everyone switches to GvG they can take WvW down, if not, they'll have found the optimal balance for getting people to do open PvP.

@Coeruleum.9164 said:>I think maybe the optimal thing to do for now would be to leave WvW up

You think?

@"Coeruleum.9164" said:I think maybe the optimal thing to do for now would be to leave WvW up but also have different instances of the WvW maps for people who want to do GvG. If enough alliances form that everyone switches to GvG they can take WvW down, if not, they'll have found the optimal balance for getting people to do open PvP.

Except if you wanted to spam skills at one another in a circle and pop stability you can already do that in the EOTM or Armistice Bastion arenas. If extra effort on navigation isn't a problem can even do it in Obsidian Sanctum. There's only so much "GvG" that can go on if there's no incentive.

All those people that think WvW is just about "fights" are sorely mistaken, if people just wanted fights they'd go PVP. I suspect that's what we'll see in the 15v15 supposedly coming up, there's only so much novelty to it til it gets old.

Most of the changes to WvW that have led to its downfall have been recommended by "fight guilds" by the way.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Coeruleum.9164 said:>I think maybe the optimal thing to do for now would be to leave WvW up

You think?

My dear Dawdler, phrases in written text end with punctuation marks such as a comma, period, or semicolon, not with a space.

@Infusion.7149 said:

@Coeruleum.9164 said:I think maybe the optimal thing to do for now would be to leave WvW up but also have different instances of the WvW maps for people who want to do GvG. If enough alliances form that everyone switches to GvG they can take WvW down, if not, they'll have found the optimal balance for getting people to do open PvP.

"Less accessible to players who don't have strong WvW guilds" =/= "downfallen." If it was easy to ally your guild with the largest WvW guilds, then even people who just play alone and run around taking ruins would have an easy time with GvG, but balancing that alliance system might take a while.

WvW has the appeal of being on at any time of the day. and that has to stay as it is.as for GvG... i heard a long time ago that the devs feared becoming empty if they released a special attack/defence GvG map as a PvP gamemode.also that they have problems with server connection when trying to connect 30 people together on a specific PvP map...

so for now we can just dream. GvG will never be a thing if they do not give it a try with the new cantha expac coming next year.

but if they do try to implement correct GvG.. i do have a very iunteresting idea.

take evey PvE map. divide them into territory. make guilds able to claim part of PvE maps. when a war is triggered between 2 guilds they duke it out on that portion of PvE map to eithe defend it or claim it. claiming a territory will put the guild name on that territory in the GvG map overlay (can be toggled on and off.)each territory will give a little bonus like more ressources upon gathering on that map or whatever you can think of. at the end of each month it is reseted and a special reward is given to each guild possessing a territory.one guild can possess only one territory and you can claim territory with only one guild (chosen before hand. if you change that guild in the middle of the month you wont earn the guild special bonus or reward at the end.)

the battle can be like a mini WvW. a nexus to defend. some craftable siege engine. and ressources to build them near the nexus.and VOILA.a super GvG gamemode easy to set up with the current gw2 content. may be hard to dev. but doable and i am sure arenanet will find a way for less PvP and more PvE guilds to be able to claim a territory.

i will submit this idea as a separate thread on the forum and reddit. but i know it will get only poor feedback anyway... sigh..

Yes, Alliances would be a pretty good idea, maybe they could call it the Alliance update or World Restructuring or something. Someone should tell Anet.

I recently watched a football match, I dont like football, so I asked if they could switch the game mode to synchronous dancing, because I like synchronous dancing more. They refused, life's so unfair.

@Waffler.1257 said:Yes, Alliances would be a pretty good idea, maybe they could call it the Alliance update or World Restructuring or something. Someone should tell Anet.

alliance will not really be GvG. only a way of controlling server population.

Well, they really do not have to replace anything, they simply have to create a GvG spot somewhere that lets players run tournaments on it by having some sort of control over who gets to visit that instance of the map. The Guild Hall was imperfect with all its bugs related to getting onto the map (people were constantly split over multiple instances so it took time getting any teams duelling onto the same map) but it is by far the closest to a working GvG arena that we have ever had. It's just a crying shame that instead of iterating upon it and making it better they made it worse by skill-splitting even though they couldn't change the physics of it from PvE. That pulled that map mostly played by WvW players further away from WvW. Trolls have ruined any other even decently ambitious attempt at running a player-made WvW tournament, before and after.

Also, I'm still a firm believer in that GvG actually adds to normal WvW since it is guild content and happy guilds leads to more commanders being born that will later share their content with everyone else in pickups.

To add insult to injury, creating something like this must be incredibly easy for a somewhat sizable professional game studio that it is absolutely baffling why it simply hasn't been done in 8 years, especially when it has been talked about forever by both players and developers - and the game is littered with halfarsed prototypes. It seems to be the ArenaNet special to feel they know better than what their customers ask for, only to have that blow up in their face and then be incredibly paralyzed to do anything about it (I'm referring to Strongholds vs. GvG here in this particular case). They could even sell the god damned map in their gemstore like Armistice Bastion and even if they've reached close to zero rapport with the core WvW playerbase, they could still probably see some direct return from that.

Have you even looked at the armistice bastion (radius is around 25 steps using a sylvari character) and EoTM arenas (radius is around 18 steps for main cobblestone circle)?

The armistice bastion arena even lets people sign up for red/green/blue team similar to the guild hall (which uses PvE skills/trait values so it isn't a legitimate place for GvG anymore). The armistice bastion arena is typically empty and so is the one in EoTM. This idea that you need to limit people entering an area is fictional because it's currently a non-existent problem.

@enkidu.5937 said:I recently watched a football match, I dont like football, so I asked if they could switch the game mode to synchronous dancing, because I like synchronous dancing more. They refused, life's so unfair.

I recently watched a football match, but there were no teams, it was just whoever lived in the area playing against whoever else lived in a different area. I'm on a football team, but a lot of us don't live in the same area. The game ended up being a bunch of people who weren't on any team playing against each other, or people who were on teams that rarely even met each other in person to play football and just existed to talk about football on Skype. Even who the quarterback for each side was kept changing partway through a play. What's up with that?

the big thread i created here AND on reddit about the new GvG gamemode i was talking about up here got deleted by admins. :)

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:the big thread i created here AND on reddit about the new GvG gamemode i was talking about up here got deleted by admins. :)

Thank you very much for reminding me to save what we write here!

I never join serious guilds because I don't like to be constrained to a schedule, specific builds or to have anything expected of me. It feels too much like work to me, and I have a job IRL for that. I game to do what I want.

I'm happy to co-operate, play proper builds, join Discord, etc. when I feel like it or when my server is really struggling, but generally I like to do my own thing. And I love WvW because I can do that while still contributing, how ever little that may be compared to the entire population.

I'm certain I'm not alone in this because 99% of what's left in WvW is exactly this kind of player. WvW functions almost entirely on pugs and veteran knowledge teaching new comers. It has become stagnant in many ways, but a change like what is being suggested in the OP would be the surest way to kill it outright.

Until every server both EU and NA are fielding a maximum of 20 players at peak prime time, WvW is alive and well. I regularly see massive 80 v 80 v 80 fights in all tiers and moderate activity though out the day (the last I was on EU it felt as though their activity was a lot more condensed where as on NA it's a bit more spread out. So it may feel more dead certain hours of the day on EU in comparison). Lots could be done to reinvigorate interest in WvW, but converting it to a strictly guild versus guild format would completely eliminate the spirit of what WvW is.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I never join serious guilds because I don't like to be constrained to a schedule, specific builds or to have anything expected of me. It feels too much like work to me, and I have a job IRL for that. I game to do what I want.

I'm happy to co-operate, play proper builds, join Discord, etc. when I feel like it or when my server is really struggling, but generally I like to do my own thing. And I love WvW because I can do that while still contributing, how ever little that may be compared to the entire population.

I'm certain I'm not alone in this because 99% of what's left in WvW is exactly this kind of player. WvW functions almost entirely on pugs and veteran knowledge teaching new comers. It has become stagnant in many ways, but a change like what is being suggested in the OP would be the surest way to kill it outright.

Until every server both EU and NA are fielding a maximum of 20 players at peak prime time, WvW is alive and well. I regularly see massive 80 v 80 v 80 fights in all tiers and moderate activity though out the day (the last I was on EU it felt as though their activity was a lot more condensed where as on NA it's a bit more spread out. So it may feel more dead certain hours of the day on EU in comparison). Lots could be done to reinvigorate interest in WvW, but converting it to a strictly guild versus guild format would completely eliminate the spirit of what WvW is.

Maybe calling it something like AvA (Alliance vs. Alliance) or FvF (Faction vs. Faction) would be more helpful.

Funny part is that usually wvw is good and fun until some guild come ruin it.

@Junkpile.7439 said:Funny part is that usually wvw is good and fun until some guild come ruin it.

True.

Wasn't there some talk about 15v15 PvP arenamode like a year back, did they already scrap it?

I thought the problem with WvW was that people just wanted to zerg and capture empty structures rather than actually fight.