Please improve scaling in core Tyria events :(

In few words: scaling is awful on lower level maps, to the point where it gets really frustrating to try to get your daily.

The long story:Event Scaling is a wonderful idea, when it works right it makes all events adecuately challenging to the participants. When not, events are either frustratingly hard, or so stupidly easy that it can be hard to get participation. The latter is what tends to happen on a core Tyria map when it gets hit by the daily event. I've noticed that events scale really poorly on the vast majority of maps (only Orrian maps, Frostgorge Sound, and the newer events in Iron Marshes seem to be exempted). The situation is dire: you have dozens of fully geared players running around one-shoting groups of trash mobs. There tends to be a huge wait between groups of mobs, and most of them die within two seconds of being spawned. If the map is not too low level, you may get a veteran or two, but those also melt within five seconds.

I remember a time when I enjoyed running into other players and getting random help. Daily Events on these maps is such a chore that I try my best to avoid other people as that's usually my best bet to be able to get event participation (getting on a raptor and trying to reach an ongoing event before it ends is a gamble, so I prefer to just roam and trigger events instead). Guild Wars 2 shouldn't be this way, its design philosophy was to have players be glad to have each other around. So please, improve event scaling in core Tyria! You may not want champions spawning in L15 areas, but at least allow elites to show up: if you have +15 fully geared L80 characters participating, it's ridiculous to not spawn even a single one. If it were up to me, all L15+ zones would get scaled up to groups of elites with a champion lead once you have those +15 geared people participating. Seeing how powerful these characters are, I doubt that would be too much against a zerg of them.

Collection are really bad at this. Take Rani's armor in Wayfairers Foothills for example. That one hardly ever gets done because it feels like it scales with players entering the event circle and passing through.

My issue with your suggestion is that I don't think it would be good for the real low level characters in the area. They would find themselves fighting against enemies that can kill them quickly and against which they do so little damage that I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get participation in the events even when damaging the champions.

I would suggest an alternative approach: instead of making those events harder, which could make them worse for the new players, increase level scalling so the high level characters become less powerful. Make a level 80 character in full ascended gear, when in a level 15 map, have the same stats as a level 12 character in white gear. It would decrease significantly the speed in which high level characters clear events in low level zones, while keeping the low level characters as powerful as they are today.

+1 Erasculio.

Max 80 characters in ascended need to be downscaled better in core tyria. And mount DMG is a real problem too.

@Erasculio.2914 said:My issue with your suggestion is that I don't think it would be good for the real low level characters in the area. They would find themselves fighting against enemies that can kill them quickly and against which they do so little damage that I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get participation in the events even when damaging the champions.

I would suggest an alternative approach: instead of making those events harder, which could make them worse for the new players, increase level scalling so the high level characters become less powerful. Make a level 80 character in full ascended gear, when in a level 15 map, have the same stats as a level 12 character in white gear. It would decrease significantly the speed in which high level characters clear events in low level zones, while keeping the low level characters as powerful as they are today.

Very much this.

The downscaling doesn't take all the extra bonuses from traits, runes, sigils, multiple stats etc into consideration. It still feels like godmode in the starter zones.

They really need to downscale the mounts attack/dismount skill on below level 80 maps. There are people who repeatedly use mounts on low level maps to wipe out mobs during map event days.

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:They really need to downscale the mounts attack/dismount skill on below level 80 maps. There are people who repeatedly use mounts on low level maps to wipe out mobs during map event days.

I think that's the most annoying part of all of it. I wind up getting the "can't beat em join em" mentality when this gets frustrating enough and start trying to "raptor-whip" before the next guy.

Or when I'm on my core-only account, I don't even call out events in map chat because of the flash mob and all their nukes. If I stumble on an event nobody is doing yet, I solo it as long as I can before the flash mob shows up. Scaling in every sense is broken and needs to be addressed.

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:They really need to downscale the mounts attack/dismount skill on below level 80 maps. There are people who repeatedly use mounts on low level maps to wipe out mobs during map event days.

I have just one account, and unless it's a "group event" event, I never call them out as most times can be done quickly with just one person and mount or not, I don't want a gang coming in and killing everything before I get a few kills in for it to count as completing.Many times it's not even the mount but just AoE all over the place as everyone fighting each other to try and kill everything which is insane.

Tbh i think lv1-15 maps just shouldn't ever be a daily event completer. lv15+ maps though, most actually do pretty good on this front (a few individual events are pretty bad still but on the whole, most maps are good. Blazeridge Steppes is really the only map I can think of with terrible event scaling for most of its events, centaur camp related events globally - that being on every single map where centaur camps are with exception to lake doric - are also awfully scaled but this issue extends way beyond dailies).

lv15-30, it really depends on the map and events in question, but i fear that altering their scales may make these events too difficult when it isn't a daily happening- i'm sure at some point we've -all- been mad at some afk people to upscaling an event that makes it hard or impossible to complete alone now, especially for new players/characters who are unlikely to have even half of their gear green or above. Unless...daily event completer makes the map in question's events scale significantly higher, or much better- aside group events, make events have silly scaling that can spawn elites and the like if 15+ players are present, but keep normal scaling until that point.

@Erasculio.2914 said:My issue with your suggestion is that I don't think it would be good for the real low level characters in the area. They would find themselves fighting against enemies that can kill them quickly and against which they do so little damage that I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get participation in the events even when damaging the champions.

I would suggest an alternative approach: instead of making those events harder, which could make them worse for the new players, increase level scalling so the high level characters become less powerful. Make a level 80 character in full ascended gear, when in a level 15 map, have the same stats as a level 12 character in white gear. It would decrease significantly the speed in which high level characters clear events in low level zones, while keeping the low level characters as powerful as they are today.

Events are already terrible for new players. Especially "leftover" events in places like Kessex Hills. Nothing's ever explained in any way.

The problem is that harsher gear scaling won't solve this. The events themselves just don't scale in any meaningful way whatsoever. If you have 15 doing the event, that's ~15 AOE fields dumped on where the mobs spawn which kills them the instant their invulnerability wears off; that's ~15 people holding the 1 key autoattacking mobs to death before there's any chance to do anything about it.

It's the exact same issue WvW has. Once you get a few people together, the game devolves into spamming auto-attack and slapping AOE fields everywhere.

Though it's true that downscaling isn't good enough for the really low maps ("godmode" isn't as noticeable as you go into higher level areas), upscaling of events is also really poor for many of the maps. Even if you had 20+ players in white gears doing an event, it not even spawning veterans seems like a serious issue of upscaling failure.

That people get to the point of NOT WANTING help for events just shows that there's a real QOL issue that needs improvement. One potential solution is to have appropriate level scaling in place, and to have exotic-80 players (and above) be counted as 2 players (or 1.5, adjust as needed) for sub-70 areas. That way a bunch of low level players wont scale an event as much as a zerg of 80s.

Also, Anet would know just how many low level players tend to gather up for an event. Yesterday as I was cruising Queensdale, the event with the most participation was a protect the loggers from the skritt thieves, and it had 5 players. Scaling up would be sort of minimal for that situation, and even one veteran spawning would probably not have been a hazzard for all of them to take out together. Now, had it been a daily event, I am sure the scaling up would be just the same, even if we get the AoE death-touch parade instead.

In short words: that there's a AoE "everything dies on spawn" is already a sign that scaling needs tweaking (both upscaling of events and downscaling of players).

Remove lvl 30 maps from the daily rotation. No need to upscale events or downscale players (I want to one shoot everything. I did level to 80 and geared up, so I should be able to do it.).

If the problem is the dailies then fix the daily system not try to meander around it. Trying to fix the wrong problem isn't going to benefit anyone.

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:They really need to downscale the mounts attack/dismount skill on below level 80 maps. There are people who repeatedly use mounts on low level maps to wipe out mobs during map event days.

I don't call them out either, and if someone else is around, I pretty much keep it to #1 autoattack. I really just want to get a tag in before everyone else with their raptors and AOE spam shows up while at the same time not overwhelming the event myself.

For this to really work you'd also have to disable elite specs and most core trait lines aswell, power doesn't just come from stat numbers. Pretty much have to take everything away, which your not supposed to have at x lvl at x map. At lvl 20 and lower maps all trait lines disabled etc.

It would lead to even more problems and an actual outrage

They need to nerf the effect the raptor has on low level enemies. New players get demoralized by all the trolling raptor swipers with beefed up level 80's.

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:They really need to downscale the mounts attack/dismount skill on below level 80 maps. There are people who repeatedly use mounts on low level maps to wipe out mobs during map event days.

While I agree with the thought, my experience has been to ask people to not "mount-kill" during events. Being polite has actually worked for the most part. Granted, we shouldn't have to ask people to be courteous but when I have done so, most players comply.

Downscaling low level content is easy by design you can buy straight power gear and 2shot every enemy until level 25..it has nothing to do with people not being down scaled its core tyria being stupid easy because its core tyria.

I've proposed before that event scaling should be based on cumulative player level instead of number of players. Take the simple example of an event in a level 20 zone on a map. Currently (to my knowledge at any rate), 4 level 80 players will scale the event the same as 4 level 20 players. Yet a level 80 player has all 3 traitlines unlocked and all his skills (not to mention elite lines), better gear and runes and stuff. compare to the level 20 players. A single level 80 players is significantly more powerful than the level 20 players, even after downscaling. So it doesn't make sense to scale the event the same for both groups. Now, if scaling was based on level, then the level 80 players would count as 4 level 20 players, and their version of the event would be scaled up as if there were 16 level 20 players there.

This way, it not only provides a challenge to both groups, it also slows down the level 80 group from destroying the event instantly, which gives a level 20 player a chance to make it there before its over 15 seconds after it started.

This has the added bonus of not changing how the scaling works very much in higher leveled maps, while still achieving the goal of better event scaling in lower leveled maps when high leveled characters want to join in.

@OriOri.8724 said:I've proposed before that event scaling should be based on cumulative player level instead of number of players. Take the simple example of an event in a level 20 zone on a map. Currently (to my knowledge at any rate), 4 level 80 players will scale the event the same as 4 level 20 players. Yet a level 80 player has all 3 traitlines unlocked and all his skills (not to mention elite lines), better gear and runes and stuff. compare to the level 20 players. A single level 80 players is significantly more powerful than the level 20 players, even after downscaling. So it doesn't make sense to scale the event the same for both groups. Now, if scaling was based on level, then the level 80 players would count as 4 level 20 players, and their version of the event would be scaled up as if there were 16 level 20 players there.

This way, it not only provides a challenge to both groups, it also slows down the level 80 group from destroying the event instantly, which gives a level 20 player a chance to make it there before its over 15 seconds after it started.

This has the added bonus of not changing how the scaling works very much in higher leveled maps, while still achieving the goal of better event scaling in lower leveled maps when high leveled characters want to join in.

That is also a setup for easy trolling ... just run around/through low level events on a lv80.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I've proposed before that event scaling should be based on cumulative player level instead of number of players. Take the simple example of an event in a level 20 zone on a map. Currently (to my knowledge at any rate), 4 level 80 players will scale the event the same as 4 level 20 players. Yet a level 80 player has all 3 traitlines unlocked and all his skills (not to mention elite lines), better gear and runes and stuff. compare to the level 20 players. A single level 80 players is significantly more powerful than the level 20 players, even after downscaling. So it doesn't make sense to scale the event the same for both groups. Now, if scaling was based on level, then the level 80 players would count as 4 level 20 players, and their version of the event would be scaled up as if there were 16 level 20 players there.

This way, it not only provides a challenge to both groups, it also slows down the level 80 group from destroying the event instantly, which gives a level 20 player a chance to make it there before its over 15 seconds after it started.

This has the added bonus of not changing how the scaling works very much in higher leveled maps, while still achieving the goal of better event scaling in lower leveled maps when high leveled characters want to join in.

Is that any different from a group of people running around and scaling events up but not participating? Or trolling by being a level 80 and clearing the event solo before anyone else can show up to help?

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I've proposed before that event scaling should be based on cumulative player level instead of number of players. Take the simple example of an event in a level 20 zone on a map. Currently (to my knowledge at any rate), 4 level 80 players will scale the event the same as 4 level 20 players. Yet a level 80 player has all 3 traitlines unlocked and all his skills (not to mention elite lines), better gear and runes and stuff. compare to the level 20 players. A single level 80 players is significantly more powerful than the level 20 players, even after downscaling. So it doesn't make sense to scale the event the same for both groups. Now, if scaling was based on level, then the level 80 players would count as 4 level 20 players, and their version of the event would be scaled up as if there were 16 level 20 players there.

This way, it not only provides a challenge to both groups, it also slows down the level 80 group from destroying the event instantly, which gives a level 20 player a chance to make it there before its over 15 seconds after it started.

This has the added bonus of not changing how the scaling works very much in higher leveled maps, while still achieving the goal of better event scaling in lower leveled maps when high leveled characters want to join in.

Spending resources to end up in the exact same situation you started with sounds like the definition of waste of time to me.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I've proposed before that event scaling should be based on cumulative player level instead of number of players. Take the simple example of an event in a level 20 zone on a map. Currently (to my knowledge at any rate), 4 level 80 players will scale the event the same as 4 level 20 players. Yet a level 80 player has all 3 traitlines unlocked and all his skills (not to mention elite lines), better gear and runes and stuff. compare to the level 20 players. A single level 80 players is significantly more powerful than the level 20 players, even after downscaling. So it doesn't make sense to scale the event the same for both groups. Now, if scaling was based on level, then the level 80 players would count as 4 level 20 players, and their version of the event would be scaled up as if there were 16 level 20 players there.

This way, it not only provides a challenge to both groups, it also slows down the level 80 group from destroying the event instantly, which gives a level 20 player a chance to make it there before its over 15 seconds after it started.

This has the added bonus of not changing how the scaling works very much in higher leveled maps, while still achieving the goal of better event scaling in lower leveled maps when high leveled characters want to join in.

Better scaling events sounds like a waste of time? The option for trolling will be the same as it is now, but the events will scale better. How is that ending up in the exact same situation we are in now.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I've proposed before that event scaling should be based on cumulative player level instead of number of players. Take the simple example of an event in a level 20 zone on a map. Currently (to my knowledge at any rate), 4 level 80 players will scale the event the same as 4 level 20 players. Yet a level 80 player has all 3 traitlines unlocked and all his skills (not to mention elite lines), better gear and runes and stuff. compare to the level 20 players. A single level 80 players is significantly more powerful than the level 20 players, even after downscaling. So it doesn't make sense to scale the event the same for both groups. Now, if scaling was based on level, then the level 80 players would count as 4 level 20 players, and their version of the event would be scaled up as if there were 16 level 20 players there.

This way, it not only provides a challenge to both groups, it also slows down the level 80 group from destroying the event instantly, which gives a level 20 player a chance to make it there before its over 15 seconds after it started.

This has the added bonus of not changing how the scaling works very much in higher leveled maps, while still achieving the goal of better event scaling in lower leveled maps when high leveled characters want to join in.

Exactly what is trolling now?I feel like this word is being over used now a days..i because i don't how people can troll in OW events.

Hmm, i agree with the majority of the thread... when doing dailies and their is a flash Mob on every event, its near impossible to tag anything unless you mount-tag...

i know im part of the problem, but just to get credit ive taken to griffon dive spamming into mobs, only to quickly reset and head to the next spawn and repeat... i kinda sorta have to do this, though, as im a condi Mesmer and struggle with AE tagging...

that being said; i concur that tuning the events to be harder is kinda unfair to the newbies that aren't geared like the rest of us... I think it would be more fair if us 80s were tuned down a bit... i wouldn't mind the lowbie area event 'seeming' harder, giving us more time to tag the enemies... Maybe at least give their HP a % increase if the area is flooded with people...

just my 2c.