Why the legendary ring being locked behind raids is okay.

So I've seen alot of discussion about the new legendary trinket and how it's unfair for arenanet to lock it behind raids, and I just wanted to throw out my opinion on it

Legendary trinkets were introduced into the community pretty recently, and their inclusion was met with overall positivity. The very first legendary trinket was implemented to be earned almost solely through living world season three, and it was once again met with overwhelming positivity.

So what's different about the new legendary ring? It's another legendary trinket locked behind a specific aspect of the game, raids in this case, but it's caused a far greater outrage from the community then the trinket that was attached solely to living world season 3... The complaints all stem from one simple argument, the legendary trinket shouldn't be locked behind a game mode that isn't accessible to the while community, and shouldn't be made exclusive to those who raid.

I completely disagree with this argument for a few reasons, and these are the reasons I think it's okay for the trinket to be locked behind raids

1.its one out of five trinkets to come... The first trinket was locked behind living world season three maps, and is something I'll never have the desire to work for, and we can assume all five of them will come from different areas of the game . One from the living world , one from raids, one from PvP , one from fractals,ect. So why is it such a problem to everyone that one comes from raids?

2. This is probably more controversial and where I'll lose most of you, but raids are completely accessible to everyone who plays the game. Not WANTING to raid does not equal not being ABLE to raid. We can all raid. Everyone who currently raids started from nothing as well.if the new legendary ring is something you Truely want, there's nothing stopping you from putting in the effort to get it yourself.

People have been saying it's not okay to lock one legendary trinket behind an area of the game they don't play, while simultaneously failing to look at the fact the first legendary trinket was also locked behind an area of the game that some people don't play as well. I seen in one post someone say, .... This ring belongs to the living world map... Well, the first trinket belonged to the living world. The second belongs to raids, the third maybe to WvW, the fourth maybe to fotm.

Before bashing arenanet, and telling them they're shooting there own foot, take a step back to look at the system, the implementations of the trinkets so far, and what's to come for the remainder of the legendary trinket set.

Before complaining that you'll never be able to get it, ask yourself how much it means to you, and if it really means enough to you, you'll have it in no time I promise you.. I never thought I'd raid, but here I am recently finishing my legendary armor. It's accessible to all of us if it means enough to you ..

I hope this post does some good somewhere in the community thanks for reading.

I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of shit talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.
I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

@Rysdude.3824 said:I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.

I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

Addig a legendary trinket to raids gives raider's a legendary trinket to work towards, like I mentioned we can safely assume all aspects of the game will get your own. It's just a legendary trinket that the raiding community can work towards in the content they play, just like a WvW trinket would be content the wvw players could work towards. Legendary trinkets are a completely acceptable raid reward because we will have four other trinkets spread throughout the game that we can work towards that don't touch raids at all, it's a completely fair system.

Like I said, raids may not be something everyone plays, so people may think that makes it unfair, but people aren't looking at the fact that people also don't play the other content in the game, I personally refuse to spend that much time in LW and I'll never craft Aurora . As I'm sure many others would refuse to. I'll never earn a single bit of progress towards a WvW trinket, and I most likely wouldn't work towards a PvP trinket. So it's nice that we will get one in so many different areas of the game, so players have one attached to the content they enjoy. Do you see my point there ?

I respectfully disagree with 2, although I agree with your statement otherwise.People DO want to raid, but they don't want to be raiders.

Nobody bothers to research fights other than googling and following guides with little genuine understanding.This is most apparent while pugging. People will do no updraft gorse even if their dps is abysmal for it, but if they can't no updraft they just ignore gorseval...People will try and 3burn kc but won't even attempt to do the side mechanics if they can't burn fast enough.

And I don't mean this to be insulting, because that's simply how it is. It's a fair and reasonable thing for the average player to look up what works and emulate it.Why even question how the car drives when it's been running just fine for years using the same fuel? You're in a difficult situation if your car stalls, but if it doesn't then everything is daisies.

There's also those with slow reflexes, poor vision, and genuine learning disabilities. Who, try as they might, cannot get past certain more difficult content in this game.They have my sympathy/empathy.. but at the same time, raiders need nice things too. Raids are hard, give them something shiny for doing hard stuff.

@Murdock.6547 said:I respectfully disagree with 2, although I agree with your statement otherwise.People DO want to raid, but they don't want to be raiders.

Nobody bothers to research fights other than googling and following guides with little genuine understanding.This is most apparent while pugging. People will do no updraft gorse even if their dps is abysmal for it, but if they can't no updraft they just ignore gorseval...People will try and 3burn kc but won't even attempt to do the side mechanics if they can't burn fast enough.

And I don't mean this to be insulting, because that's simply how it is. It's a fair and reasonable thing for the average player to look up what works and emulate it.Why even question how the car drives when it's been running just fine for years using the same fuel? You're in a difficult situation if your car stalls, but if it doesn't then everything is daisies.

There's also those with slow reflexes, poor vision, and genuine learning disabilities. Who, try as they might, cannot get past certain more difficult content in this game.They have my sympathy/empathy.. but at the same time, raiders need nice things too. Raids are hard, give them something shiny for doing hard stuff.

Unfortunately there's always a hard battle to be faught when looking at disabilities and impairment, and I must say that was overlooked when I posted this . My heart goes out to them. "People do want to raid but they don't want to be raiders" is the mind set I tried addressing though. That's still a personal decision for them , to not learn the fights, the mechanics, and to put in the effort they need to to development a good understanding of the fights, in this sense, they do not want to raid, they do not want to do what is the necessary effort to raid when they could ,with effort. do what is necessary . When I started raiding less then a year ago ( I've been apart of the community since launch) I was able to devote less then 10 hours a week to gw. Usually around 5 hours. I'm still on a similar schedule , but I was able to put in the effort necessary to learn the raids and to learn my class and to join some training runs and get the experience I need. I did it all through pugs on the lfg . It can easily be done by anyone who wants to do it.

But saying they don't want to be raiders doesn't excuse them from bashing arenanet, or bashing raids and raid rewards

If you're fine with putting up with the constant stream of BS that comes out of raider's mouthes or fingers in GW2 then good on you. Personally I'm not into that kind of thing. I've been into hardcore raiding for a long time, probably for too long in other games, and right now I'm done with all the drama, complaints or the frustration that comes with learning a new encounter and dealing with 9 other players doing so. I refuse to have someone else dictating my schedule and what I should play a given day, and of course pugs have ridiculous expectations for this kind of content. I've seen 100 Li requirements for escort or Cairn lol.

The problem isn't dealing with the difficulty, it's dealing with the raiding "community". They're simply not fun to be with, their company isn't enjoyable, and their expectations are about as high as the mediocrity of the average raider. Not my thing. However, since ANet thinks I do not need any additional long-term goals then fine, at some point I'll end up with nothing at all to do and it will be time to move on to other games, there's nothing wrong with that. Ultimately it's not like I care, if the dev team has little concern for the retention of non-raiders then so be it.

@Rennie.6750 said:If you're fine with putting up with the constant stream of BS that comes out of raider's mouthes or fingers in GW2 then good on you. Personally I'm not into that kind of thing. I've been into hardcore raiding for a long time, probably for too long, and right now I'm done with all the drama, complaints or the frustration that comes with learning a new encounter and dealing with 9 other players doing so. I refuse to have someone else dictating my schedule and what I should play a given day, and of course pugs have ridiculous expectations for this kind of content. I've seen 100 Li requirements for escort or Cairn lol.

The problem isn't dealing with the difficulty, it's dealing with the raiding "community". They're simply not fun to be with, their company isn't enjoyable, and their expectations are about as high as the mediocrity of the average raider. Not my thing. However, since ANet thinks I do not need any additional long-term goals then fine, at some point I'll end up with nothing at all to do and it will be time to move on to other games, there's nothing wrong with that.

And here again you complained about arenanet adding content that you won't attain, while failing to look at the first legendary trinket or the ones to come out after this one.... you're content with complaining about a piece of content you admit to having no Desire to obtain. This is on you, and that's totally fine ! Just as it's fine I have no desire to obtain aurora. More trinkets will come out, not tied to raids that you'll be able to look forward to earning. Why so you feel the need to cut down arenanet and the raiding community for having a trinket of there own.

You spent a great deal of the first part complaining specifically about the raid community, but you also don't mention what YOU can do to combat your concerns. Forming your own groups for instance. I think alot of our company is enjoyable =/ don't pass judgment on a whole community based off some bad experiences, and don't associate all groups expectations with the expectations of a few... There are plenty training runs, semi experienced runs, low LI or just a simple link of kp.. how much effort have you honestly put into seeking these groups out ? Making friends with similar expectations ? I'll assume not too much . Because like I've said in this post I'm solely a pugger, and was able to cater my own experiences around my personal expectations by forming my own groups, running my own training and joining groups that had similar expectations to my own.

Edit: and even looking past everything I just said. You've in no way provided any constructive argument to why it's not okay for arenanet to add 1 of 5 legendary trinkets to raids. You've not given any valid argument as to why it's NOT okay for a raid trinket. But it is okay for if LW trinket, or an fotm trinket, or a WvW tinket.

There will always be people outside of all of these communities that will never desire to earn the rewards, and it's a completely fair system to implement them throughout the different areas of the game

I would like to add some precision on the "raid arent attainable for everyone".

Most of the time, ai can summarize what I read by "it is too difficult for the average player", "it is too time consuming for the average player", "all groups require experience to join, so you can't learn from zero".

1. "It is too difficult"It isnt. Seriously. Stop saying that. Everyone has the capacity the raid given you are willing to learn the machenics and accept thr fact that you're gonna be messing up a lot at first. After that, you don't to everything well 100% of the time with 100% optimal DPS to kill a boss. Not even close.

2. "It is too time consuming"The again, it isnt. 2-5 hours a weeks and that should do. You dont need to be an expert raider to do a good job. Just be remotely aware of what you're doing. Do you think spending 2-5 hours a week is too much for a legendary ? Then how do you want to craft ANY legendary?

3. "You need experience to join groups"That is true. On LFG. LFG is toxic and it has always been, way before raids were released. Luckily for you, there are other options: join a guild. Now I hear you thinking that joining a raiding guild is time consuming and that they generally are toxic. That isnt true at all. Some guilds will be, but most of them are happy to let a new raider join in, at your own time. Some of em specifically run training groups ! And some of them will even take time to teach you personnally.

There is absolutely NO REASON to say that raiding isnt possible for everyone. You just don't want to do the minimal effort required to do it.

raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

Now I like raids but none of that makes sense. Do raids even need more incentive in the form of rewards, than it already has? I don't think it does, we already get plenty of unique skins and the only unique skin legendary armors. I'd even go as far as saying we get too much unique rewards for a mode that is about challenging yourself after the rest of the game becomes too easy. More incentive is only going to bring in reluctant people, which is the problem currently going on in PvP.

The reason isn't a full page spread, it's very simple: The legendary ring is not offering a boost in performance above ascended trinkets. It doesn't even give you a cosmetic 'advantage'.

@Obtena.7952 said:The reason isn't a full page spread, it's very simple: The legendary ring is not offering a boost in performance above ascended trinkets. It doesn't even give you a cosmetic 'advantage'.

This is another good reason it's okay but one I left out because it's not a focal point for many arguments , thanks for including it, though, it has slipped my mind since I wrote this <3

@Shiyo.3578 said:raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

It's not a waste of development time and money, you can check my comment history to go back a few comments and look at a longer reply I had to this mind set, but In short. Raids(and fractals) are probably the most replayed content in gw2, and the rewards given to the players for investing time into the content do belong there and are a good pay off for the people who make arenanets development time, Truely worth it .

@Rysdude.3824 said:I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.

I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

Im making the legendary armor on my own pace so idk whats you on about.

@meeflak.9714 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

Nobody would do lw updates if it wasnt for the "special" rewards they give and gimicks like exploiting farms.

@Shiyo.3578 said:raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

I would really love to see the source on that or did you just make an assumption?

They obviously wouldn't waste resources and developer time if raids weren't popular. Not saying it is the most played content in the game but it is no where near as unpopular as you are assuming it is.

Sigh, just because people will reprimand you doesn't mean its a toxic setting, please stop using buzzwords just because you don't like the content that's how words lose meaning. Also i think its a good thing it may open up raids to more of the community which may decrease the amount of elitism in the raiding community.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.

I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

All by yourself eh? Not relying on 9 other players? Good on you.

"Why locking content behind raids is okay?" Well, because you raid of course you doughnut... I have a nice set of leggy armor myself and I already killed 50% of the new wing, but it still is not right to suddenly exclude people who have ALWAYS been included for years. I don't care that much tho. Punishment for having a bad business-plan is losing profit, and we all know Arenanet is dealing with that problem big time... =)

Their game, their choice.If they believe catering to raiders is the best way to bankroll the game, kudos. Not my problem.

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Rysdude.3824 said:I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.

I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

Why is 10 people such a magic number to people?

Fractals at 5 is ok. Dungeons at 5 are ok.

TEN? SOUND THE ALARMS! ELITIST ONLY ZONE!

You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

@FOX.3582 said:"Why locking content behind raids is okay?" Well, because you raid of course you doughnut... I have a nice set of leggy armor myself and I already killed 50% of the new wing, but it still is not right to suddenly exclude people who have ALWAYS been included for years. I don't care that much tho. Punishment for having a bad business-plan is losing profit, and we all know Arenanet is dealing with that problem big time... =)

Like so many people have said so many times, no one is suddenly excluded because it's a raid reward. It's still obtainable by all, I never thought I'd be able to raid and thought it was something above me, I was wrong, people need to look past there negative outlook on raids and the raiding community, just as I had to. Then they'll realize raiding is what you make it..

Personnally I think that legendary or not this will just be a ring and there are already plenty of way to gain the non legendary rings. If anet feel like there is a need for a reward gated behind the new raid and it need to be a legendary thing then let it be.

@meeflak.9714 said:

@FOX.3582 said:"Why locking content behind raids is okay?" Well, because you raid of course you doughnut... I have a nice set of leggy armor myself and I already killed 50% of the new wing, but it still is not right to suddenly exclude people who have ALWAYS been included for years. I don't care that much tho. Punishment for having a bad business-plan is losing profit, and we all know Arenanet is dealing with that problem big time... =)

People have all rights to have a negative perspective on raids because most of them bought this game while it was ADVERTISED as a game with dungeons, story and a living world that are super CASUAL. Suddenly they abandon stuff like dungeons (who even the most idiotic person could clear) and come up with a lot more difficult stuff like the Jungle and Raids, just because a handful of people find this game too easy. Again, I like raids myself, I like fractal challenge modes, I like the Jungle, but that doesn't mean I'm not able to view it from an other perspective. Making hardcore content in a game were 95% of the people are only able to stand stationary while pressing skill #1 is a really bad decision, specially if seen for a business perspective and this game WILL face the consequences. A lot of "newbies" will leave this game (a lot already have) because it's becoming too hard for them, so it excludes them from content, WHICH THEY HAVEN'T CHOSE FOR TO BEGIN WITH. And the hardcore people will also leave (again, a lot already have) because the raids are still WAAAAAAY TOO EASY compared to other games. A lot of you will see that I'm right eventually.

That is exactly why they designed raids to be optional content. Now if legendaries gave a huge power advantage over someone who doesn't have them then I definitely would see it as a problem.