Invulnerability = ruin the game — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Invulnerability = ruin the game

Kapax.3801Kapax.3801 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 24, 2017 in PVP

After playing so much time in PvP, I realized that the invulnerability can become very OP depending on the class, sometimes I feel that it lasts longer than it would have to last and lengthen the fight, giving more advantage that can stay more invulnerable ...

  • I say that they remove it directly, in this way we will have faster matches and without much advantage for some classes.
  • Another would be to set a specific time limit (no more than 2 seconds, for example) and a fairly high CD (6 min) to reuse the ability.
  • Finally, a redesign that reduces all damage by 80% for 3 or 4 seconds. (3 or 4 min of CD)

What do you think? (these changes would only be for PvP)

Invulnerability = ruin the game 153 votes

Yes, have it removed from PvP.
28%
Netko.9271Preminger.2380Zacchary.6183Malediktus.9250Kapax.3801Kako.1930Ivantreil.3092Felipe.1807K THEN.5162Ario.8964sokeenoppa.5384Miles Smiles.8951Adenin.5973Burnfall.9573Raiden The Beast.3016Kirnale.5914schloumou.3982Emapudapus.1307Imperadordf.2687Vertep.2498 43 votes
No, continue, but reduce the maximum time and increase the CD.
20%
st elmos fire.2987Alatar.7364Azzara Nectum.1734Elegie.3620cgMatt.5162Eleazar.9478Destruction.9180Loboling.5293Vherak.5276Elementalist Owner.7802Ziggityzog.7389Arkaile.5604Poelala.2830Volrath.1473Chilli.2976zoopop.5630zengara.8301thesilverdragoon.3078JayPanda.1304xDudisx.5914 31 votes
No, let it continue like this.
39%
Razor.6392Dukotje.4382Strages.2950Obindo.6802Sodeni.6041Curunen.8729Mini Crinny.6190Zaraki.5784StarDroid.1038Crinn.7864Velimere.7685LucianTheAngelic.7054DaShi.1368Daishi.6027FitzChevalerie.1035ArthurDent.9538Eros.6801choovanski.5462Cyninja.2954Mr Godlike.6098 60 votes
Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)
12%
MithranArkanere.8957Kiroshima.8497Vagrant.7206Ithilwen.1529Rodzynald.5897rank eleven monk.9502Jacobin.8509Crab Fear.1624Loop.8106otto.5684BeepBoopBop.5403Lilyanna.9361Apolo.5942Weo weo.6378ToPNoP.2493corey.6451Abazigal.3679verskore.4312Lycarian.9627 19 votes
<1

Comments

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    I don't see any issues with Invulnerability itself
    However if you meant having unlimited stealth/dodges regardless of skill level like back in the day then yeah i would have signed on it :)

  • No, continue, but reduce the maximum time and increase the CD.

    Everything needs to be toned down. The power creep that comes with every expansion has made the game unplayable. Too much sustain and defensive abilities, passives are out of control, condis are still too strong... Power creep might be good for PvE but in PvP everything is so powerful that it has become a facerolling clown fiesta.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    "invulnerability" Itself is fine.

    Something that lets you string defensive cooldowns while standing on point without affecting the decap is bad.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    Invulnerability of any kind is usually a bad idea when it can be thrown among many other things, but it can work when it's in a limited skill set.

    That's why in a game in which classes hae fixed skill sets like a shooter or a moba you can easily have it , but it can create problems in a mmorpg when there's way more possible combinations.

    In the particular case of GW2, I'd replace most instances of invulnerability with particularly large barriers that can bypass the cap.

    Barrier is been overused in Scourge, scourge should not get as much self barrier as it's getting, at least not without a trait or investing more in vitality and healing power, but it could fix a few things in other professions.

  • Remove passive procs and nerf active effects and increase CDs.

    This is my signature.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    this trash mechanic shouldn't never been in existence in a ' healthy game '

  • Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    Passive traits need that make you invuln need to go. Engi elixer, ranger and warrior signet. Passive traits should just give you extra defenses, not be a straight get out of jail free card. Especially these ones are so easy to trait and are in every build of these classes.

  • GoZero.9708GoZero.9708 Member ✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    No, let it continue like this.

    The time for most all invincibility should be shortened but make up for it by also stopping condition damage. Going invuln prevents you from holding a cap, that's all the balance it needs for PvP.

    @Razor.6392 said:
    I would reduce blocks all across the board, mainly for guardian.

    You mean reduce block all across the board on the class whose low health is sold on prediction defense and damage denial? That would be like removing healing on all Elementalist Water skills.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017

    Ooo, it's tough question, a bit too tough for a little fishy Quaggan, would you remove for example block on Warrior shield as it's basicaly Invulnerability on "short" CD?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    For emphasis

    @Loop.8106 said:
    Don't remove all of it. Just remove the passive invulns.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ideally, active blocking of 1 attack is the best kind of combat invouln. Attack, counter, attack, counter, etc and so on with fairly low cd, similar to dodging.

    Unfortunetly, we got this thing called WvW where 20 people will happily focus a single enemy and think they got awesome skillz. SPvP cannot be substantially altered without destroying WvW. But on the PvP forums I suppose thats not much of a threat to make.

  • Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    While i support the idea of removing invulnerabilities, i also think that some classes must get some kind of compensation for losing it.

    As an engi for example, i would totally appreciate the removal of elixir s, (only because its a must slot type no matter what build you are running nowadays), however, the removal of it also means the deletion of the only natural stealth skill that core engi has access to.

    Stealth via combo is unreliable for engineer if this is the only type of stealth engi can get, our fields are either rng based or are too slow to set up, not to mention that our blasts/leaps means blowing some big cd's for a 3 second stealth.... just no.

    Arguably, followed by cc break, the most important defensive skill engi has, without it, it wouldn't be able to survive insane metas like this one

  • rwolf.9571rwolf.9571 Member ✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    Sounds like somebody wastes their bursts when somebody pops their invuln...
    I say no, because it's more of a mind game. Choosing when to pop your own invuln, while waiting for theirs to end. Don't get me wrong. I love chasing engies when they shrink down and run away XD.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    Replace invulnerability/channeled blocks with the mechanic used in skills like [Arcane Shield] and [Shield of Wrath]: "For X (very short duration) seconds, block the next Y (single or a very limited number) attacks." The most horrendous thing to deal with is watching someone press a button and either effortlessly stall all combat or potentially laugh off a million hits because their block or invulnerability period has a long, static duration. Also, inflicting damage off of a block is super poor combat design; that should go and/or get re-worked.

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Honestly? At this point it'd be easier to list what's not ruining the combat because everything is broken. It's a mess and the only way out is GW3, until they powercreep that to hell as well.

    This, however, is the real core of the matter. The game is busted beyond saving at this rate. It's not really worth even talking about this stuff because any topic (no matter how fundamental in nature) is always just the tip of the iceberg.

  • plushiesoda.8150plushiesoda.8150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    No, let it continue like this.

    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017

    Only GW2 players are bad enough to complain about the odd passive invurn trait, in a game that passively aims for you...

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    I think having invulnerabilities is a good idea considering the actual meta, but passive invulnerabilities are also situationnaly game breaking, especially on warrior and engineer.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    This entire game revolves around temporary invulnerabilities. Call it dodging or what ever have you.

    I a have said for a while now, that the game needs to be less spiky and more stats and passives based.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • tartarus.1082tartarus.1082 Member ✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    here's the thing with just removing it though. there exists to much damage spikes and CC abilities to just remove passive procs and invuln from the game. I keep seeing posts that essentially go like "nerf/remove X then pvp/wvw will be fixed."

    To an extent I want some of these things reworked/removed. However, it needs to just be a comprehensive rework not just remove a major facet of the game design and basically break it. if these abilities were removed spike damage classes would easily dominate specs that rely on the procs to stay competitive. in reality I want most passive procs to be removed, but extreme damage spikes need to be rebalanced as well.

    basically my point is fixing pvp is more complicated than nerfing a specific class or removing a specific mechanic. instead what the game needs is a comprehensive rework to address power creep, that has led us to extreme damage output and extreme sustain capabilities. So yes I want it gone, but I want it removed right. if that makes sense?

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    @rwolf.9571 said:
    Sounds like somebody wastes their bursts when somebody pops their invuln...
    I say no, because it's more of a mind game. Choosing when to pop your own invuln, while waiting for theirs to end. Don't get me wrong. I love chasing engies when they shrink down and run away XD.

    I really don't, because that means I eat 3k damage x3 because of braindead bunker down mines.

    Passive invulns need to go.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • No, let it continue like this.

    so let me get this right people already drop quick with how strong condi is. you want to make it so bunkers can not do their job?

  • rwolf.9571rwolf.9571 Member ✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @rwolf.9571 said:
    Sounds like somebody wastes their bursts when somebody pops their invuln...
    I say no, because it's more of a mind game. Choosing when to pop your own invuln, while waiting for theirs to end. Don't get me wrong. I love chasing engies when they shrink down and run away XD.

    I really don't, because that means I eat 3k damage x3 because of braindead bunker down mines.

    Passive invulns need to go.

    Well I guess you learn class mechanics or you don't. Hey, I mean I've been guilty of standing in Scourges AOE's too long. You know, the face roll way to do things. When every class has their own Invun state (except necro and thief?). I don't see the issue.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    No, let it continue like this.

    @rwolf.9571 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @rwolf.9571 said:
    Sounds like somebody wastes their bursts when somebody pops their invuln...
    I say no, because it's more of a mind game. Choosing when to pop your own invuln, while waiting for theirs to end. Don't get me wrong. I love chasing engies when they shrink down and run away XD.

    I really don't, because that means I eat 3k damage x3 because of braindead bunker down mines.

    Passive invulns need to go.

    Well I guess you learn class mechanics or you don't. Hey, I mean I've been guilty of standing in Scourges AOE's too long. You know, the face roll way to do things. When every class has their own Invun state (except necro and thief?). I don't see the issue.

    And no class can burst levels of damage while invuln. Keep defending your freelo tho.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    Remove all passive invulns. Specifically endure pain, elixir s, and arcane shield traits.

    Yes arcane shield. Idc how bad ele has it right now, it is cancer to lose to ranged kiting fresh air ele because they happened to trait for that dumb kitten; it carries them. Remove that and buff FA ele somewhere else.

  • Vaeo.4097Vaeo.4097 Member ✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    No, let it continue like this.

    Invulnerabilities weren't a problem before PoF. So problem is changes made by PoF, not invulnerabilities itself.

    For instance, most annoying invulnerability now is Holosmith's double Elixir S. But it wasn't an issue on Scrapper. It becomes problem only in combination with insane Holosmith damage.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Remove all passive invulns. Specifically endure pain, elixir s, and arcane shield traits.

    Yes arcane shield. Idc how bad ele has it right now, it is cancer to lose to ranged kiting fresh air ele because they happened to trait for that dumb kitten; it carries them. Remove that and buff FA ele somewhere else.

    Normally I'd agree but knowning ANet they'd prolly add something like "Gain 5 seconds of might on hit" as a replacement.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @rwolf.9571 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @rwolf.9571 said:
    Sounds like somebody wastes their bursts when somebody pops their invuln...
    I say no, because it's more of a mind game. Choosing when to pop your own invuln, while waiting for theirs to end. Don't get me wrong. I love chasing engies when they shrink down and run away XD.

    I really don't, because that means I eat 3k damage x3 because of braindead bunker down mines.

    Passive invulns need to go.

    Well I guess you learn class mechanics or you don't. Hey, I mean I've been guilty of standing in Scourges AOE's too long. You know, the face roll way to do things. When every class has their own Invun state (except necro and thief?). I don't see the issue.

    You must be an engi player. No way you can be this dumb lmao.

    If you think it's fine to do 9k damage off of 1 dodge... I mean, I don't even need to talk to you anymore. Your brain is simply inferior.

    First off, as an engi main I think you need to reevaluate what you're saying about the people who legitimately main the class rather than FOTM scrubs who exploit OP mechanics.

    Second, with the current way the game works removing passive invuln is impossible without throwing the entire game into a burst meta just like we had pre HoT. In order to allow for the removal of invuln, damage needs to be nerfed EVERYWHERE. If anet refuses to nerf damage then I don't support the removal of invuln as the 1 shot meta was about as boring as the bunker meta. The problem right now is everyone thinks everything would be fine after straight up removing all invuln without considering that without invuln, classes like engi would be utterly useless as they are not given enough sustain to survive in this meta without the double invuln (believe me, I've tried many a time to run without them, even just in dueling you end up running away the whole fight because everyone else has too much sustain for you to trade against without invuln.)

    All that being said, I'd like to see both damage nerfed and invuln removed to foster a game in which prediction and active defense is what players rely on instead of crutch mechanics.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Remove all passive invulns. Specifically endure pain, elixir s, and arcane shield traits.

    Yes arcane shield. Idc how bad ele has it right now, it is cancer to lose to ranged kiting fresh air ele because they happened to trait for that dumb kitten; it carries them. Remove that and buff FA ele somewhere else.

    Normally I'd agree but knowning ANet they'd prolly add something like "Gain 5 seconds of might on hit" as a replacement.

    As a revenant main I 100% feel what you mean. Everything said on the forums should have an implied "assuming the balance team is competent" disclaimer to it.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

    I am not a expert on the game, so you probably shouldnt take anything that I say serious...but if it was up to me, no I wouldnt give anything to warriors in return, I would nerf damage across all professions, AoE damage would get extreme nerf(shouldnt do more damage then single target skills), condis would only be side effects no damage, would rise the cooldown of some skills, passive trait lines should be reworked(small buffs are okay, damage immunity, or extreme buffs are not healthy for the game), etc.
    the thing is that the game is not fun to play anymore, i honestly allready gave up of sPvP, i dont mind losing against better players, is allways a oppotunity to learn something, but more then half of the fights that I lose, i have the feeling that I am being cheated lol, more then once I was like "hey now I gonna kill him" and then invulnerability kicks in and he dissapear of my sight just to appear 5 secs later fully recovered.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Ooo, it's tough question, a bit too tough for a little fishy Quaggan, would you remove for example block on Warrior shield as it's basicaly Invulnerability on "short" CD?

    some skills are "un-block-able"

    lol port them away 10,000 random units if it pops a passive invuln

  • No, let it continue like this.

    the issues are short cd's on long blocks, evades combined with damaging skills, passive invuls and anets balance team. cant see any of these things changing thou.

  • No, let it continue like this.

    Another lazy/burnout asking for shorter matches...

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The biggest problem I have with invuln is on warriors and specifically spell breakers. Not only do they have a passive traited invuln but an active as well. Then full counter which blocks an attack and then does insane damage and transfers conditions. If all that fails they can chain cc you if you manage to outlive their heavy damage, both invulns, constant interrupts, potential shield blocks, full counter block, and seemingly infinite gap closers. It’s just not fun fighting something that is constantly immune to damage, constantly had stability and cannot be stunned, and can passively avoid pretty much all damage for a good 2 minutes of a fight while their heath rapidly regenerates and they’re back to having their cool downs up again. Out of all the classes I hate playing against they are by far the worst, followed by push pull dragon hunter builds and evade spam condi thieves.

    Rangers have two invulns now too but they at least have to be activated. And engineers double invulns aren’t TOO bad as long as you manage to kite them or stay away long enough for them to get photon forge on cool down.

    Warriors still need some balance tuning though. Having some warrior stick to you an entire fight and just run around interrupting you or stunning you and everyone else amidst all the damage knowing they have a passive trait to keep them from dying if they screw up is just dumb.

    Can’t really complain about any others because they at least take some skill, have some risk involved, and take you actually pushing a button or timing your abilities right. Holo being the exception but they at least have to rely on cool down management and take more effort for mobility.

  • Loop.8106Loop.8106 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    I would gladly make Renewed Focus instant cast. Without even touching the other classes invulns. That would probably make it stronger on classes like DH because you would be able to play more reactivly.

    Slam Jammed self proclaimed strongest core guardian on this side of the atlantic.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I think fights should last longer than they currently do. Opening bursts should give an advantage, not melt an enemy into oblivion - blocks, invuln and evades are just a nessicary part of that, given the power creep.

  • Loop.8106Loop.8106 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

    Warrior has a higher block-uptime than both Core Guardian and Dragonhunter. They also have about 8k more base health and evade-frames on their skills. (GS3). They also have access to vigor, which guardian doesn't, more gap closers and higher protection uptime (on Spellbreaker).
    So to answer your question, I would not give warrior anything to compensate. I would tell each and every one of them to simply get good and start dodging skills that other classes have had to dodge for the past 5 years.

    Slam Jammed self proclaimed strongest core guardian on this side of the atlantic.

  • sure... invuln is the thing that breaks the game... no
    the thing that breaks the game is stealth and its antilogic implementation:
    -logic implemetation of stealth dont allow insta stealth while in combat (you cant disapear in plain sight of an enemy focused on you)
    -logic implementation of stealth makes moving while in stealth at reduced speed(moving carefully to not make noises that breaks stealth)
    -logic implementation of stealth makes that stealth is breaked by taking almost every single action(you make a noise that breaks it)
    -logic implementation of stealth makes stealths breaked at starting an attack action not at hitting with it
    resuming: logic implementation of stealth makes it a strategic tool that hides your moves not a tactic combat tool
    thief must have stealth and fast moving(ports) but not at the same time if you want move secretly you have to do at reduced speed and if you want to move fast you have to do in plain sight, disapearing in midle of a fight and apearing two secs after in the other side of map is not ok

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Loop.8106 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

    Warrior has a higher block-uptime than both Core Guardian and Dragonhunter. They also have about 8k more base health and evade-frames on their skills. (GS3). They also have access to vigor, which guardian doesn't, more gap closers and higher protection uptime (on Spellbreaker).
    So to answer your question, I would not give warrior anything to compensate. I would tell each and every one of them to simply get good and start dodging skills that other classes have had to dodge for the past 5 years.

    So we can just take aegis away from Guards and tell them to learn how to dodge as well, by that logic.

    And guardians may not have those things listed above, but they do have access to:

    • Aegis, which is a lot more spammable on guardians
    • Teleports, Who needs gap closers when you literally have access to hop to someone
    • A very strong condi, Which can be utilized on their power buildd to add an extra bit more DPS
    • Has an invul that can not only refresh your virtues , but is on a WAY shorter cooldown than either of the stances when traited
    • Better and untouched condi build
    • Better ranged weapons
    • Better team support
    • Overall better traits imo
    • More build variety to counter the one or two builds that is meta on war right now
    • More blocks, Because of aegis which can be applied back to back
    • More CC in weapons
    • Full condi cleanse, two smites to cleanse, heal on block, need I say more about your sustain? That's not even going into Firebrand.
    • Your greatsword actuall ydoes more than war greatsword, because instead of having thousand blades and be rooted, you have whirling blades which NOT only break projectiles, but does a HUGE dps spike
    • The only thing I will give you, is that indeed, wars have more base HP but good and competent guardian players will easily make up for it with the few tools listed above.

    I can go WAY further to break down on how guardians are actually probably more spoiled than even mesmers. Every single spec. You class has gotten the record or at least tying with the top most broken classes, and the last to get nerfed. You have been meta in ALL gamemodes. The only time you guys were not meta was in the way beginning of GW2 (which even then you ran celestials and still were pretty unkillable. I wasn't around for the start of vanilla so someone correct me) and technically during Dragonhunter era, but you guys rolfstomped ranked que front and back, and Naru (who was the god of pvp at the end of said season he was spamming Dragonhunter) dominated the ranked boards regardless of his unsportsmanlike actions. I will give it to you, Dragonhunter was not taken in Esports, but the fact they were crawling in ALL ranks said something about them in a solo/duo setting.

    So again, how about we take away all of those things listed above that guardians has for week and see how long you guys last without crying on the forums saying guard is too weak. This is why no one here could be on the balance team, you would butch the what little semblance we have left of balance into tatters.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Loop.8106 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

    Warrior has a higher block-uptime than both Core Guardian and Dragonhunter. They also have about 8k more base health and evade-frames on their skills. (GS3). They also have access to vigor, which guardian doesn't, more gap closers and higher protection uptime (on Spellbreaker).
    So to answer your question, I would not give warrior anything to compensate. I would tell each and every one of them to simply get good and start dodging skills that other classes have had to dodge for the past 5 years.

    So we can just take aegis away from Guards and tell them to learn how to dodge as well, by that logic.

    And guardians may not have those things listed above, but they do have access to:

    • Aegis, which is a lot more spammable on guardians
    • Teleports, Who needs gap closers when you literally have access to hop to someone
    • A very strong condi, Which can be utilized on their power buildd to add an extra bit more DPS
    • Has an invul that can not only refresh your virtues , but is on a WAY shorter cooldown than either of the stances when traited
    • Better and untouched condi build
    • Better ranged weapons
    • Better team support
    • Overall better traits imo
    • More build variety to counter the one or two builds that is meta on war right now
    • More blocks, Because of aegis which can be applied back to back
    • More CC in weapons
    • Full condi cleanse, two smites to cleanse, heal on block, need I say more about your sustain? That's not even going into Firebrand.
    • Your greatsword actuall ydoes more than war greatsword, because instead of having thousand blades and be rooted, you have whirling blades which NOT only break projectiles, but does a HUGE dps spike
    • The only thing I will give you, is that indeed, wars have more base HP but good and competent guardian players will easily make up for it with the few tools listed above.

    I can go WAY further to break down on how guardians are actually probably more spoiled than even mesmers. Every single spec. You class has gotten the record or at least tying with the top most broken classes, and the last to get nerfed. You have been meta in ALL gamemodes. The only time you guys were not meta was in the way beginning of GW2 (which even then you ran celestials and still were pretty unkillable. I wasn't around for the start of vanilla so someone correct me) and technically during Dragonhunter era, but you guys rolfstomped ranked que front and back, and Naru (who was the god of pvp at the end of said season he was spamming Dragonhunter) dominated the ranked boards regardless of his unsportsmanlike actions. I will give it to you, Dragonhunter was not taken in Esports, but the fact they were crawling in ALL ranks said something about them in a solo/duo setting.

    So again, how about we take away all of those things listed above that guardians has for week and see how long you guys last without crying on the forums saying guard is too weak. This is why no one here could be on the balance team, you would butch the what little semblance we have left of balance into tatters.

    what?? Take Aegis from Guard? lol Guard have lowest health pool dude, he cant face tank kitten like war can, he is forced to go meditations to have a chance to fight, its allways have been like these.
    -How is Aegis spammable? Shield 4, F3, every 40 secs(30 if traited i believe) if F3 is not used, when affected by cc(30 sec cooldown passive trait)...i am missing something? this is not spammable at all lol, if you say Firebrand, then yeah, i agree, but core Guard cant spam Aegis.
    -Teleports...only 2, sword 2 and JI...you cant even try to compare a Guard on mobility with a War, Warrior is clearly superior on this.
    -Condi...guardian have only burn as source of condi damage, its only strong if the target have literally close to 0 condi removal...Warrior can negate all the burn by just swapping weapons.
    -Renewed Focus isnt on 90sec cooldown?? 70+secs when traited, and dont allow you do anything outside of moving and insta cast skills while channeling. the longest Stance is 60secs if I remember...not counting Juggernaut.
    -Guard have good condi build? Since when? For PvE maybe, but sPvP or WvW?
    -Kind of agree with better traits(Depends on the Trait line), but Warrior is the king of passives, he allready have high base health and armor, why would you give him even better traits.
    -How many builds guard have right now that are considered meta? Not talking about builds that you can make work to stomp less skilled players.
    -Again, core Guard dosent have more block, Firebrand can spam Aegis, but why would you do that? While in F3 tome you have 0 offencive...DH is the only that have actuals blocks, and even then, Warrior still have more and can negate DH's F3 with Signet...
    -CC? Shield, Staff, Hammer and Greatsword...and Axe if you cant Firebrand...Staff and Hammer are easy to dodge, and lets not forget that warrior have a passive stability too.
    - Yes, Guardians meditations does help a lot, even more against condi builds...but Warrior superior mobility, blocks, passive regeneration and imunity to damage(x2 by the way lol) make up for it....reason why you actually see Warrior being able to go Full Berzerker and still being able to compete, even if he dosent have teleports or stealth like Thief and Mesmer.
    - You can negate greatsword 2 by just running no dodge required...warrior greatsword is much better weapon overall, warrior greatsword 3 alone is better then everything that Guard greatsword have.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Loop.8106 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

    Warrior has a higher block-uptime than both Core Guardian and Dragonhunter. They also have about 8k more base health and evade-frames on their skills. (GS3). They also have access to vigor, which guardian doesn't, more gap closers and higher protection uptime (on Spellbreaker).
    So to answer your question, I would not give warrior anything to compensate. I would tell each and every one of them to simply get good and start dodging skills that other classes have had to dodge for the past 5 years.

    So we can just take aegis away from Guards and tell them to learn how to dodge as well, by that logic.

    And guardians may not have those things listed above, but they do have access to:

    • Aegis, which is a lot more spammable on guardians
    • Teleports, Who needs gap closers when you literally have access to hop to someone
    • A very strong condi, Which can be utilized on their power buildd to add an extra bit more DPS
    • Has an invul that can not only refresh your virtues , but is on a WAY shorter cooldown than either of the stances when traited
    • Better and untouched condi build
    • Better ranged weapons
    • Better team support
    • Overall better traits imo
    • More build variety to counter the one or two builds that is meta on war right now
    • More blocks, Because of aegis which can be applied back to back
    • More CC in weapons
    • Full condi cleanse, two smites to cleanse, heal on block, need I say more about your sustain? That's not even going into Firebrand.
    • Your greatsword actuall ydoes more than war greatsword, because instead of having thousand blades and be rooted, you have whirling blades which NOT only break projectiles, but does a HUGE dps spike
    • The only thing I will give you, is that indeed, wars have more base HP but good and competent guardian players will easily make up for it with the few tools listed above.

    I can go WAY further to break down on how guardians are actually probably more spoiled than even mesmers. Every single spec. You class has gotten the record or at least tying with the top most broken classes, and the last to get nerfed. You have been meta in ALL gamemodes. The only time you guys were not meta was in the way beginning of GW2 (which even then you ran celestials and still were pretty unkillable. I wasn't around for the start of vanilla so someone correct me) and technically during Dragonhunter era, but you guys rolfstomped ranked que front and back, and Naru (who was the god of pvp at the end of said season he was spamming Dragonhunter) dominated the ranked boards regardless of his unsportsmanlike actions. I will give it to you, Dragonhunter was not taken in Esports, but the fact they were crawling in ALL ranks said something about them in a solo/duo setting.

    So again, how about we take away all of those things listed above that guardians has for week and see how long you guys last without crying on the forums saying guard is too weak. This is why no one here could be on the balance team, you would butch the what little semblance we have left of balance into tatters.

    what?? Take Aegis from Guard? lol Guard have lowest health pool dude, he cant face tank kitten like war can, he is forced to go meditations to have a chance to fight, its allways have been like these.
    -How is Aegis spammable? Shield 4, F3, every 40 secs(30 if traited i believe) if F3 is not used, when affected by cc(30 sec cooldown passive trait)...i am missing something? this is not spammable at all lol, if you say Firebrand, then yeah, i agree, but core Guard cant spam Aegis.
    -Teleports...only 2, sword 2 and JI...you cant even try to compare a Guard on mobility with a War, Warrior is clearly superior on this.
    -Condi...guardian have only burn as source of condi damage, its only strong if the target have literally close to 0 condi removal...Warrior can negate all the burn by just swapping weapons.
    -Renewed Focus isnt on 90sec cooldown?? 70+secs when traited, and dont allow you do anything outside of moving and insta cast skills while channeling. the longest Stance is 60secs if I remember...not counting Juggernaut.
    -Guard have good condi build? Since when? For PvE maybe, but sPvP or WvW?
    -Kind of agree with better traits(Depends on the Trait line), but Warrior is the king of passives, he allready have high base health and armor, why would you give him even better traits.
    -How many builds guard have right now that are considered meta? Not talking about builds that you can make work to stomp less skilled players.
    -Again, core Guard dosent have more block, Firebrand can spam Aegis, but why would you do that? While in F3 tome you have 0 offencive...DH is the only that have actuals blocks, and even then, Warrior still have more and can negate DH's F3 with Signet...
    -CC? Shield, Staff, Hammer and Greatsword...and Axe if you cant Firebrand...Staff and Hammer are easy to dodge, and lets not forget that warrior have a passive stability too.
    - Yes, Guardians meditations does help a lot, even more against condi builds...but Warrior superior mobility, blocks, passive regeneration and imunity to damage(x2 by the way lol) make up for it....reason why you actually see Warrior being able to go Full Berzerker and still being able to compete, even if he dosent have teleports or stealth like Thief and Mesmer.
    - You can negate greatsword 2 by just running no dodge required...warrior greatsword is much better weapon overall, warrior greatsword 3 alone is better then everything that Guard greatsword have.

    Things I have mentioned above were meta on guard, that's the issue.
    The only reason why they aren't any longer is because they are simply outdated/reworked.

    Warrior actually had a sever dry period where they weren't in PVP.
    Guardians never had that issue except the times stated above.

    If you take stances and passives away from. War what do they have?
    You said it's unfair to take Aegis away from guard, but is it fair to take passives away from a class that can only get condi cleanse through weapon swap and having resistance that can easily be corrupted? There are people here that even said they would take stances and passives away from war multiple times on many threads, and never even thought how actually defenseless War would be and quickly they would melt to condi. They have strong traits and solid skills sure, but that is because they HAVE to. They don't have a choice.

    Run around without stances and those passives, tell me how long you would last in a 5v5. Maybe in vanilla sure? But in PoF? Hell no. I'm npt a war main, so this is not me defending my own personal class, this is me trying to show it is unjustified to simply gut everything a class is based around by design. Becausw at the end of the day:

    People want their kitten buffed, and want others to be nerfed.
    Which is a horrid way of thinking (unless it is something Rev or Ele which actually NEED some reworks/buffs/something right now)

  • Loop.8106Loop.8106 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Loop.8106 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    The only Invulnerability that i think is balanced is guadian Renewed Focus, long cooldown, cant attack during it and have no passive trait line that triggers it...but stuff like engi is invul is just beyond broken to me, allow the player to be really uncareful with what he is doing, since he have a disposal 2 invul(one active and other passive)...but for balance sake, if they would(which they wont) nerf the invulnerability skills, evades, blocks and things like Endure Pain and Berzerker Stance should also be nerfed.

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    in a world were over 800k healing on marauder gear, over 15 stacks of confusion in a 3s burst and AoE condition bombing are a thing, invulnerability ain't really much of an issue compared even to stability to me.

    I bet over half of the people voting for removing it from pvp main a power build... probably holosmith

    lol can you imagine Holosmith be able to survive a team fight(even a 1v1) without the invulnerability?

    So if warrior didn't have stances, then what do they have to defend against spike damage?

    Face tank?
    Two blocks that one can be triggered from afar and the other lasting a few seconds at most before going on cooldown.

    Please tell me, what is going to compensate war if you take away something? Because you come off as the type of person to simply nerf something and give nothing in return.

    Warrior has a higher block-uptime than both Core Guardian and Dragonhunter. They also have about 8k more base health and evade-frames on their skills. (GS3). They also have access to vigor, which guardian doesn't, more gap closers and higher protection uptime (on Spellbreaker).
    So to answer your question, I would not give warrior anything to compensate. I would tell each and every one of them to simply get good and start dodging skills that other classes have had to dodge for the past 5 years.

    So we can just take aegis away from Guards and tell them to learn how to dodge as well, by that logic.

    And guardians may not have those things listed above, but they do have access to:

    • Aegis, which is a lot more spammable on guardians
    • Teleports, Who needs gap closers when you literally have access to hop to someone
    • A very strong condi, Which can be utilized on their power buildd to add an extra bit more DPS
    • Has an invul that can not only refresh your virtues , but is on a WAY shorter cooldown than either of the stances when traited
    • Better and untouched condi build
    • Better ranged weapons
    • Better team support
    • Overall better traits imo
    • More build variety to counter the one or two builds that is meta on war right now
    • More blocks, Because of aegis which can be applied back to back
    • More CC in weapons
    • Full condi cleanse, two smites to cleanse, heal on block, need I say more about your sustain? That's not even going into Firebrand.
    • Your greatsword actuall ydoes more than war greatsword, because instead of having thousand blades and be rooted, you have whirling blades which NOT only break projectiles, but does a HUGE dps spike
    • The only thing I will give you, is that indeed, wars have more base HP but good and competent guardian players will easily make up for it with the few tools listed above.

    I can go WAY further to break down on how guardians are actually probably more spoiled than even mesmers. Every single spec. You class has gotten the record or at least tying with the top most broken classes, and the last to get nerfed. You have been meta in ALL gamemodes. The only time you guys were not meta was in the way beginning of GW2 (which even then you ran celestials and still were pretty unkillable. I wasn't around for the start of vanilla so someone correct me) and technically during Dragonhunter era, but you guys rolfstomped ranked que front and back, and Naru (who was the god of pvp at the end of said season he was spamming Dragonhunter) dominated the ranked boards regardless of his unsportsmanlike actions. I will give it to you, Dragonhunter was not taken in Esports, but the fact they were crawling in ALL ranks said something about them in a solo/duo setting.

    So again, how about we take away all of those things listed above that guardians has for week and see how long you guys last without crying on the forums saying guard is too weak. This is why no one here could be on the balance team, you would butch the what little semblance we have left of balance into tatters.

    I guess I will merit you with a response.

    • Aegis, which is a lot more spammable on guardians

    Yes, Aegis is spammable on FIREBRAND. It's not spammable on Guardians nor DH. DH has Shield 4, cc trait and cc stunbreak. Core guard has only the passive / Active f3.

    • Teleports, Who needs gap closers when you literally have access to hop to someone

    Sword 2 is on a 10 second cooldown and a 600 range. This is indeed a very good gap-closer. JI is 1200 range and a 45 second cooldown if not traited. None of these can be used to create a gap however. Which means a warrior has more flexibility.

    • A very strong condi, Which can be utilized on their power buildd to add an extra bit more DPS
    • Better and untouched condi build

    Don't even. Burn guard has never been viable (except for right after the spec patch back in I want to say June 2014? Also for untouched;
    Reduced the stacks of Ashes of the Just granted by this trait from 2 to 1.
    Reduced the internal cooldown on this trait from 10 seconds to 8 seconds.

    • Has an invul that can not only refresh your virtues , but is on a WAY shorter cooldown than either of the stances when traited

    Renewed Focus (which is our elite skill) has a 115 second cooldown. 92 seconds if traited. This is longer than every single stance cooldown. You can use endure pain and Berserker stance 3 times in the time this skill is on cooldown.

    • More blocks, Because of aegis which can be applied back to back

    Dragonhunter is the only spec of guard that actually has a block. It's only a frontal block which blocks for 4 seconds (traited) on a 62 second cooldown (also traited). Which also has a casting time.

    • Better ranged weapons

    The only ranged weapon Guardians has access to is Longbow. Scepter is the equivelant of Mesmer staff, it can't hit anything on long range.

    All in all, I do think Firebrands are grossly overpowered. I think on-release Dragonhunter was slightly overtuned. Nowhere close to what Heralds and Bunker mesmers used to be though.
    Its funny that you brought Dragonhunters up as an example. Naru was indeed rank 1 on NA. However, you didnt have a single Dragonhunter player in the top 10 on the EU side of things from Season 1 (old amber -> legendary leaderboards) to whenever Cookie went to top ... I want to say 15 as highest?
    Dragonhunters also lost 1v1s vs Condi Warriors, broke even against power. They lost to Druids, they lost to Scrappers. They lost to Heralds (both viper and power). They lost every 2v2 fight which had an enemy ele present in them. So yes, Dragonhunters were good. But no-where near the god-tier you're desribing them to be in.

    Slam Jammed self proclaimed strongest core guardian on this side of the atlantic.

  • Loop.8106Loop.8106 Member ✭✭✭
    Maybe it needs a redesign. (explain your idea)

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    but is it fair to take passives away from a class that can only get condi cleanse through weapon swap

    This is false. You have Signet of Stamina which is a full clear. You have shouts which cleanse. (Shake it Off!) You have traits which additionally cleanse on shouts (warhorn skills included). You do have access to plenty of condition cleanse. You have just been to spoiled to ever use them since resistance became a thing.

    Slam Jammed self proclaimed strongest core guardian on this side of the atlantic.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2017
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    @Loop.8106 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    but is it fair to take passives away from a class that can only get condi cleanse through weapon swap

    This is false. You have Signet of Stamina which is a full clear. You have shouts which cleanse. (Shake it Off!) You have traits which additionally cleanse on shouts (warhorn skills included). You do have access to plenty of condition cleanse. You have just been to spoiled to ever use them since resistance became a thing.

    People can't afford to use them with builds like 1 shot valk guard running around. The damage in this game is so high if you run a war build without any sort of damage/condi/cc immunity you will not be successful by any means unless you are going up against people who have been playing the game less than 2 weeks. So while condi clear is AVAILABLE it isn't USABLE.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, have it removed from PvP.

    The only invulns that I don't mind are the elite meditation for guardians and the utilities mist form and elixir s. The reason is that they have long cooldowns and make it so that you can't perform new actions while invulnerable. The passive elixir s on top of the utility is kind of obnoxious in my opinion though, and all of the others are just so passive that they might as well be renamed to "[profession's crutch]." I prefer active defenses that make it so that you have to dedicate to defending yourself and sacrifice your offense as a result rather than just pushing a key and being invulnerable for a while and sacrificing nothing for it.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    No, let it continue like this.

    With all the burst in the game right now it would just be a oneshit fiesta without invuls.

    Falásya / Caissech

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