How is this class bad?

So this class didnt exist when i quit so giving it a shot after returning. I know leveling doesnt really count but Im having lots of fun. Also when I switch to my Guardian to do WvW theres always quite a few Revs running around. Yet when I see the first page of this forum its all doom and gloom and this is the worst class in the history of MMOs. Can someone please tell me when I will stop having fun and start being the red-headed step child of the gaming world so I can prepare myself?

I mean you won't notice what weapons, skills or classes are good or bad during the leveling process or world explorations, all of that stuff is easy enough to blow through with basically anything. Only in end game stuff like raids and t4 fractals, or in pvp. Rev has one real build that is meta in raids, other builds simply have way inferior damage or support. Most classes have a lot more viable builds and can fill a few different roles. Rev is bad in pvp because it's very boon reliant and has no condi cleanse, and in a world of scourges corrupting boons and mirages insta bursting you with conditions, you can see why it struggles.

Herald does a lot better in wvw than it does in pvp just because of the way fights work and the fact that its weapon skills don't have the same pvp specific nerfs they have in structured pvp.

Because on WvW it is not as gutted as it is in SPvP but so are the other classes (9k shadowshots for example kek), you should try SPvP to see it. Good offense is all that makes revenant win the fights. I have no issues slaughtering 80% of WvW population I encounter in even fights myself whatsoever. The rest 20% however may be troubling most of the time because it's either scourges/mirages or other roamers who have at least minor concept of "counterplay" in their heads. And trust me, revenants are so easily outplayed.

@Dabrixmgp.4758 said:Can someone please tell me when I will stop having fun and start being the red-headed step child of the gaming world so I can prepare myself?

Go PvP or WvW roaming and try to duel some Mirage. Then go PvE raids and try to be accepted in pug raids with any build outside condi viper Renegade.

Probably you will find holes in the class way before, like when using Unrelenting Assault the game randomly freezes you inside the wireframe of the landscape, the fact that you can only have 15 underwater skills across 2 legends and a single weapon or the knowledge that Revenant is excluded from some mechanics on the game as alacrity because the way in which energy works. Also, the lack of build variety in the class is astonishing.

To me the class just feels bad to play. I hate having weaponskills consume energy, it forces me to have to choose between using a weaponskill or a utility skill. This would be fine if none had cooldowns, but with cooldowns too it feels too punishing doing anything other than autoattacking or chanelling one or two skills because the energy costs are so steep. I only realised how bad it felt after playing thief who get to use their initiative however they want, the initiative regenerates pretty quickly and there are utilities and traits that help regenerate it (plus utilities don't cost initiative).

Fun doesn't mean a lot. In WoW, enhancement shaman is, imo, the most fun class to play, yet it is largely ignored for most high end content. My suggestion, level up your rev, and play it when you dont feel like being competitive (dungeons, OW/LW, fractals up to T3, WvW, maybe even unranked PvP). The class is fun, and there is always the chance revs could get lucky with the balance dart boards (from a previous post of mine lol).

It has significant issues:

1. Lack of diversity in builds and weapons. It also has the least amount of skills of any class.
2. In end game PvE has only one viable build, condi renegade, that has long ramp-up and is nothing more than a copy past of previous iteration pre PoF with a larger damage multiplier.
3. In sPvP, its design of energy and switching utilities is severely limiting. It has very limited tools to fight conditions, which plague sPvP.
4. sPvP again, it only has one usable build (power herald). Everything else is trash. Even that build is weak.
5. It has the most bugs of any class, and probably the most number of unused skills.

I find the most major issue of the class is the legend swap system. It gives the illusion that you have many skills, but many of them are not usable in the game mode you are playing, with no option but to have them. Add that much of the time you switch the legend for energy purposes, you end up stuck with the tools that legend offers, even though they might be not functional at all for the situation you are in. Compare that with any other class, where everything is available all the time, and you are not locked by a stupid energy system. Once Rev over tuning era was over, it fell off a cliff to near obsolescence hampered by byzantine class mechanics.

Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta. That said, I mean, Rev does have some weaknesses, but most of what you see on the forums is from people who like revenant for the lore, but want to play it like it's just a warrior with more flavor and not the way it's like, designed. I'm not sure what your end-game aspirations are for the game, but here's an objective breakdown of what you have in store for you playing Revenant:

PvE: Has one of the top dps Raid Specs, but it has a pretty significant ramp up time to get going (as it's condition based damage). This ramp up time leaves it unoptimal for a couple of the raid encounters (KC, Sloth, River of Souls) and especially suffers in Fractals. And although group composition doesn't really matter in Fractals, this is where Renegade will get the most hate from elitists since everything dies/phases too quick for your dps to get going, and even if they don't die that fast (or have a lot of invulnerability phases), a lot of the bosses generally have a lot of movement, which either takes them out of your fire fields/citadel bombardments or causes you to delay casting them--plus, there's a lot of adds which absorb your group's Razorclaw empowered strikes. I full clear raid in a PUG setting every week and when I dps, I use Renegade on 11/17 encounters. (Support Renegade is also a viable build these days, but you still mostly see double druid in the PUG scene since it's covers your group incase one of the druids is bad/not full harriers).

PvP: Rev will get most of its QQ here as it was designed to have condition damage as it's weakness, and since then, anet has pushed condi bursts/specs/damage to insane new levels. Most forum negativity in this area comes from people trying to 1v1 Mirages (which every class can't really 1v1--but especially Revs) and people who stand on point trying to brawler it up in team fights against scourges and eat all their condis/corrupts. While rev's close to the bottom tier in sPvP, a good rev player will still do fine... But objectively, there's a lot stronger class choices. Luckily, level and gear doesn't matter in sPvP, so you shouldn't let that deter you from your rev... If you don't want to tough it out in the uphill battle of spvp rev, you can always just make a Level 1 Scourge/Firebrand/Mirage/Spellbreaker and get your PvP kicks on whatever class is the OP one of the season.

WvW: I don't WvW that much outside of the occasional roam for my dailies/boredom... But I think Rev's still desirable in WvW team skirmishes for it's resistance spam. (Although not as much as it used to be since the dawn of scourge/breakers.)

@"narcx.3570" said:Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta. That said, I mean, Rev does have some weaknesses, but most of what you see on the forums is from people who like revenant for the lore, but want to play it like it's just a warrior with more flavor and not the way it's like, designed. I'm not sure what your end-game aspirations are for the game, but here's an objective breakdown of what you have in store for you playing Revenant:

PvE: Has one of the top dps Raid Specs, but it has a pretty significant ramp up time to get going (as it's condition based damage). This ramp up time leaves it unoptimal for a couple of the raid encounters (KC, Sloth, River of Souls) and especially suffers in Fractals. And although group composition doesn't really matter in Fractals, this is where Renegade will get the most hate from elitists since everything dies/phases too quick for your dps to get going, and even if they don't die that fast (or have a lot of invulnerability phases), a lot of the bosses generally have a lot of movement, which either takes them out of your fire fields/citadel bombardments or causes you to delay casting them--plus, there's a lot of adds which absorb your group's Razorclaw empowered strikes. I full clear raid in a PUG setting every week and when I dps, I use Renegade on 11/17 encounters. (Support Renegade is also a viable build these days, but you still mostly see double druid in the PUG scene since it's covers your group incase one of the druids is bad/not full harriers).

PvP: Rev will get most of its QQ here as it was designed to have condition damage as it's weakness, and since then, anet has pushed condi bursts/specs/damage to insane new levels. Most forum negativity in this area comes from people trying to 1v1 Mirages (which every class can't really 1v1--but especially Revs) and people who stand on point trying to brawler it up in team fights against scourges and eat all their condis/corrupts. While rev's close to the bottom tier in sPvP, a good rev player will still do fine... But objectively, there's a lot stronger class choices. Luckily, level and gear doesn't matter in sPvP, so you shouldn't let that deter you from your rev... If you don't want to tough it out in the uphill battle of spvp rev, you can always just make a Level 1 Scourge/Firebrand/Mirage/Spellbreaker and get your PvP kicks on whatever class is the OP one of the season.

WvW: I don't WvW that much outside of the occasional roam for my dailies/boredom... But I think Rev's still desirable in WvW team skirmishes for it's resistance spam. (Although not as much as it used to be since the dawn of scourge/breakers.)

No, just about everything said by others is correct. There is no build diversity, there are too many unused skills, energy cost with a CD is clunky, legends are clunky. Just because you refuse to see the problems, doesn't mean they aren't there. No other class has to adapt to the problems rev has. How are you supposed to adapt clunkiness, or a lack of options in utilities. You can't set up abilities like you want to, as with every other class, you are stuck with two sets that, combined, cover half of what you need.

The people who post on the forums are mostly concerned with pvp or raiding - aspects of the game I don't even participate in. What I've found is that for the most part their concerns are irrelevant to me.

@Biff.5312 said:The people who post on the forums are mostly concerned with pvp or raiding - aspects of the game I don't even participate in. What I've found is that for the most part their concerns are irrelevant to me.

Ya, but I can mash any build on any class with any gear and I will be fine in open world PvE. Trying to use open world PvE as a measure for class performance is pretty silly.

And to be honest, the only reliable rev open world PvE build is power herald. The condi build ramp-up now is bordering on idiotic, pushing them way out of any viability but fighting champions. Compare that with guardian, I can come with at least a dozen of fairly strong open world PvE builds with various weapons. Diversity here is a killer.

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@"narcx.3570" said:Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta. That said, I mean, Rev does have some weaknesses, but most of what you see on the forums is from people who like revenant for the lore, but want to play it like it's just a warrior with more flavor and not the way it's like, designed. I'm not sure what your end-game aspirations are for the game, but here's an objective breakdown of what you have in store for you playing Revenant:

PvE: Has one of the top dps Raid Specs, but it has a pretty significant ramp up time to get going (as it's condition based damage). This ramp up time leaves it unoptimal for a couple of the raid encounters (KC, Sloth, River of Souls) and especially suffers in Fractals. And although group composition doesn't really matter in Fractals, this is where Renegade will get the most hate from elitists since everything dies/phases too quick for your dps to get going, and even if they don't die that fast (or have a lot of invulnerability phases), a lot of the bosses generally have a lot of movement, which either takes them out of your fire fields/citadel bombardments or causes you to delay casting them--plus, there's a lot of adds which absorb your group's Razorclaw empowered strikes. I full clear raid in a PUG setting every week and when I dps, I use Renegade on 11/17 encounters. (Support Renegade is also a viable build these days, but you still mostly see double druid in the PUG scene since it's covers your group incase one of the druids is bad/not full harriers).

PvP: Rev will get most of its QQ here as it was designed to have condition damage as it's weakness, and since then, anet has pushed condi bursts/specs/damage to insane new levels. Most forum negativity in this area comes from people trying to 1v1 Mirages (which every class can't really 1v1--but especially Revs) and people who stand on point trying to brawler it up in team fights against scourges and eat all their condis/corrupts. While rev's close to the bottom tier in sPvP, a good rev player will still do fine... But objectively, there's a lot stronger class choices. Luckily, level and gear doesn't matter in sPvP, so you shouldn't let that deter you from your rev... If you don't want to tough it out in the uphill battle of spvp rev, you can always just make a Level 1 Scourge/Firebrand/Mirage/Spellbreaker and get your PvP kicks on whatever class is the OP one of the season.

WvW: I don't WvW that much outside of the occasional roam for my dailies/boredom... But I think Rev's still desirable in WvW team skirmishes for it's resistance spam. (Although not as much as it used to be since the dawn of scourge/breakers.)

Anyone who complains about energy cost restrictions is exactly who I'm talking about in the first paragraph when I say they want a face roll, spam all their skills off cd, play style similar to that of some of the other classes... You can embrace the energy system and practice smart resource management and skill priority, even using it to your advantage to make up dps that you missed out on doing mechanics, or you can blow all your energy on something stupid and then complain that other classes don't have such restrictions. Playing Rev and complaining about energy management is like playing Weaver and complaining that you have to change attunements so much... It's literally the core dynamic of the class.

As for a lack of build diversity, Revenant has one meta dps spec and one meta support spec--the same as Rangers, Mesmer's, and Elementalists.... Warriors and Necros have one spec... Thiefs, Guardians, and Engineers have two viable specs, but they are both for dps roles and they are not both usually viable for every encounter--one vastly out performs the other from fight to fight. And if you mean simply that you can't change your utilities... Let's be realistic. In end game PvE, every class uses pretty much the exact same builds and utilities, maybe with small variations (i.e. some DH using Zeal>Virtues cuz he thinks he'll get hit a lot, or a Weaver using Signet of Fire cuz they don't think their group will have enough weakness generation, etc). You're not going to be raiding and have somebody playing Double Axe DPS Warrior or Power Reaper, the same as you're not going to see a Power Herald. While maybe Revenant's utility choices are physically locked by their legend choices, the other classes' choices are just as locked by performance, usefulness, and communal elitism as a whole.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta. That said, I mean, Rev does have some weaknesses, but most of what you see on the forums is from people who like revenant for the lore, but want to play it like it's just a warrior with more flavor and not the way it's like, designed. I'm not sure what your end-game aspirations are for the game, but here's an objective breakdown of what you have in store for you playing Revenant:

PvE: Has one of the top dps Raid Specs, but it has a pretty significant ramp up time to get going (as it's condition based damage). This ramp up time leaves it unoptimal for a couple of the raid encounters (KC, Sloth, River of Souls) and especially suffers in Fractals. And although group composition doesn't really matter in Fractals, this is where Renegade will get the most hate from elitists since everything dies/phases too quick for your dps to get going, and even if they don't die that fast (or have a lot of invulnerability phases), a lot of the bosses generally have a lot of movement, which either takes them out of your fire fields/citadel bombardments or causes you to delay casting them--plus, there's a lot of adds which absorb your group's Razorclaw empowered strikes. I full clear raid in a PUG setting every week and when I dps, I use Renegade on 11/17 encounters. (Support Renegade is also a viable build these days, but you still mostly see double druid in the PUG scene since it's covers your group incase one of the druids is bad/not full harriers).

PvP: Rev will get most of its QQ here as it was designed to have condition damage as it's weakness, and since then, anet has pushed condi bursts/specs/damage to insane new levels. Most forum negativity in this area comes from people trying to 1v1 Mirages (which every class can't really 1v1--but especially Revs) and people who stand on point trying to brawler it up in team fights against scourges and eat all their condis/corrupts. While rev's close to the bottom tier in sPvP, a good rev player will still do fine... But objectively, there's a lot stronger class choices. Luckily, level and gear doesn't matter in sPvP, so you shouldn't let that deter you from your rev... If you don't want to tough it out in the uphill battle of spvp rev, you can always just make a Level 1 Scourge/Firebrand/Mirage/Spellbreaker and get your PvP kicks on whatever class is the OP one of the season.

WvW: I don't WvW that much outside of the occasional roam for my dailies/boredom... But I think Rev's still desirable in WvW team skirmishes for it's resistance spam. (Although not as much as it used to be since the dawn of scourge/breakers.)

You are the minority then. You know, when I was much younger, I used to make my busted ass car work, too. It's so much nicer having one that works well.

Rev support is not meta in raid after druid got the GotL change. Handkiter doesn't count because it is literally only one boss and Spellbreakers, Soulbeast and Guardian can do it as well now. Power Reaper is actually pretty strong in t4's, condi reaper is viable in raids along with scourge support but by no means meta.

Having a slow rampup condi build as pretty much your only dps option in raids, cm and some t4's is a problem not specifically tied to Rev since other specs suffer from this as well.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta. That said, I mean, Rev does have some weaknesses, but most of what you see on the forums is from people who like revenant for the lore, but want to play it like it's just a warrior with more flavor and not the way it's like, designed. I'm not sure what your end-game aspirations are for the game, but here's an objective breakdown of what you have in store for you playing Revenant:

PvE: Has one of the top dps Raid Specs, but it has a pretty significant ramp up time to get going (as it's condition based damage). This ramp up time leaves it unoptimal for a couple of the raid encounters (KC, Sloth, River of Souls) and especially suffers in Fractals. And although group composition doesn't really matter in Fractals, this is where Renegade will get the most hate from elitists since everything dies/phases too quick for your dps to get going, and even if they don't die that fast (or have a lot of invulnerability phases), a lot of the bosses generally have a lot of movement, which either takes them out of your fire fields/citadel bombardments or causes you to delay casting them--plus, there's a lot of adds which absorb your group's Razorclaw empowered strikes. I full clear raid in a PUG setting every week and when I dps, I use Renegade on 11/17 encounters. (Support Renegade is also a viable build these days, but you still mostly see double druid in the PUG scene since it's covers your group incase one of the druids is bad/not full harriers).

PvP: Rev will get most of its QQ here as it was designed to have condition damage as it's weakness, and since then, anet has pushed condi bursts/specs/damage to insane new levels. Most forum negativity in this area comes from people trying to 1v1 Mirages (which every class can't really 1v1--but especially Revs) and people who stand on point trying to brawler it up in team fights against scourges and eat all their condis/corrupts. While rev's close to the bottom tier in sPvP, a good rev player will still do fine... But objectively, there's a lot stronger class choices. Luckily, level and gear doesn't matter in sPvP, so you shouldn't let that deter you from your rev... If you don't want to tough it out in the uphill battle of spvp rev, you can always just make a Level 1 Scourge/Firebrand/Mirage/Spellbreaker and get your PvP kicks on whatever class is the OP one of the season.

WvW: I don't WvW that much outside of the occasional roam for my dailies/boredom... But I think Rev's still desirable in WvW team skirmishes for it's resistance spam. (Although not as much as it used to be since the dawn of scourge/breakers.)

There are a couple of issues with rev design that no other class suffers. Only rev and thief have a resource system, but only rev has also utilities and F-skills tied to the resource system.

Compared to Ele, yes Ele relies on water for suvivability. The big difference is water is always available, since you only switch to it when survivability is needed. For rev you are forced to switch cuz you either need to heal or to maintain damage. In addition Ele skills are not gated by resource, the way rev is.

And ya, things work in PvE, but it is cuz in PvE suvivability is not an issue and things are pretty systematic. But even there, condi rev is middle of the pack and has a pretty long ramp-up. I play FB, and FB in griver gear can stack like 7-8K burns in 2-3 secs. Power rev is not a thing.

The rev design failures can be circumvented through brute force, as was the case early in HoT. After it was brought down to reality (a bit further down) it just does not work. I still enjoy class animations, and condi rev. But playing condi rev in sPvP is currently not even remotely an option.

Honestly, no other class have to deal with such unnecessarily non-functional systems. It is too late to remove them now. Reducing the energy restrictions and completely removing healing skills from legend swap (with adjusting their CDs) will be a huge step in the right direction. This way I am not forced to switch legends to be able to heal and maintain resource, but switch legends to access skills as I need them, like every kitten class in the game.

@Vulf.3098 said:Rev support is not meta in raid after druid got the GotL change.

If anything, the change to GotL (and spirits) is what made Rev support viable in the first place...? If you need a second druid to keep up 25 stacks of might, what you really need is a competent first druid (especially since they fixed the low duration bug last patch.)

@"narcx.3570" said:Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta. That said, I mean, Rev does have some weaknesses, but most of what you see on the forums is from people who like revenant for the lore, but want to play it like it's just a warrior with more flavor and not the way it's like, designed. I'm not sure what your end-game aspirations are for the game, but here's an objective breakdown of what you have in store for you playing Revenant:

PvE: Has one of the top dps Raid Specs, but it has a pretty significant ramp up time to get going (as it's condition based damage). This ramp up time leaves it unoptimal for a couple of the raid encounters (KC, Sloth, River of Souls) and especially suffers in Fractals. And although group composition doesn't really matter in Fractals, this is where Renegade will get the most hate from elitists since everything dies/phases too quick for your dps to get going, and even if they don't die that fast (or have a lot of invulnerability phases), a lot of the bosses generally have a lot of movement, which either takes them out of your fire fields/citadel bombardments or causes you to delay casting them--plus, there's a lot of adds which absorb your group's Razorclaw empowered strikes. I full clear raid in a PUG setting every week and when I dps, I use Renegade on 11/17 encounters. (Support Renegade is also a viable build these days, but you still mostly see double druid in the PUG scene since it's covers your group incase one of the druids is bad/not full harriers).

PvP: Rev will get most of its QQ here as it was designed to have condition damage as it's weakness, and since then, anet has pushed condi bursts/specs/damage to insane new levels. Most forum negativity in this area comes from people trying to 1v1 Mirages (which every class can't really 1v1--but especially Revs) and people who stand on point trying to brawler it up in team fights against scourges and eat all their condis/corrupts. While rev's close to the bottom tier in sPvP, a good rev player will still do fine... But objectively, there's a lot stronger class choices. Luckily, level and gear doesn't matter in sPvP, so you shouldn't let that deter you from your rev... If you don't want to tough it out in the uphill battle of spvp rev, you can always just make a Level 1 Scourge/Firebrand/Mirage/Spellbreaker and get your PvP kicks on whatever class is the OP one of the season.

WvW: I don't WvW that much outside of the occasional roam for my dailies/boredom... But I think Rev's still desirable in WvW team skirmishes for it's resistance spam. (Although not as much as it used to be since the dawn of scourge/breakers.)

The meta build for Rev in WvW is zerk hammer. Coalescence of Ruin hits like 15 enemies on a really short CD and it hits like a freight train. You can 1 or 2 shot people with it at max range.

I can only speak from a pve perspective, and I've only played renegade in high level fractals, so I don't have any other metrics to compare. Let me just say, sometimes it feels like even my power soulbeast would be a better pick for some of the T4 groups I've had, with how quickly things die when your group doesn't suck. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but there are times when I feel like I'm not contributing anything. And forget about carrying bad pugs, condi renegade needs some serious babysitting to get its max damage going.

@"narcx.3570" said:Well, it is the forums, so a lot of "doom and gloom" is just QQ from confused bads who don't really get their class or who refuse to adapt their builds/playstyles with the ever changing meta.

There was no change in the "ever changing meta" at PvP for the class since the HoT release. Condi Rev was nerfed after a few weeks and power Herald is the only build for 2 years in a row. At the beguinning at least you had the option to run Retribution instead of Invocation, but that traitline was butchered at the end of 2016 son everyone went Devastation + Invocation + Herald 24/7/365. Sword, a little hesitation about the second hand and staff. The same rune since forever (Durability until banned, then either Leadership or Surging). There's nothing to adapt because the only changes in two years were nerfs in damage, nerfs in procs, nerfs in access to stability and a rewortk in the sword to make it a suicidal glass cannon. Oh, and we got an stunbreak in Mallyx... only problem is that Mallyx doesn't work in PvP so, who cares?

Yes, legend can be achieved with the class, for players exceptionally good which would get the same with any other class, at half of the effort. But even if Rev were meta at PvP (which isn't) that wouldn't change the fact that the class has 0 build variety and the whole PoF spec and exclusive new weapon has no use in PvP or WvW.

So is neither the forums nor the "refusing to adapt". Same build in two years. Only weaker. And with its hard counter (condis) ramped up to eleven.  This is Spinal Tap.

@narcx.3570 said:If anything, the change to GotL (and spirits) is what made Rev support viable in the first place...? If you need a second druid to keep up 25 stacks of might, what you really need is a competent first druid (especially since they fixed the low duration bug last patch.)

Viable =\= meta.

You run 2 druids for the massive amount of utility they bring that support rev lacks because all it really brings is alacrity, 300 range might stacking (lol) and overhealing that is pretty much wasted. Honestly I would rather have a heal ele over a support rev on fights like sloth and mathias for example. Fights like MO and Souless Horror are decent for it because Renegade support does a decent amount of damage for a support if you do not need the utility Druid brings.

Right now support rev is niche. If they add an encounter in the future that has a ton of pulsing damage going out then Ventari rev will probably be mandatory.

The way I see it - you start running into problems with Revenant when you start hitting its bugs, or notice just how limited it is compared to every other class.

The class is quite wonky. Its numbers seem to be acceptable, but getting them is a problem. While it can do a lot, everything else can do it a little bit better.

The class is a jack of all trades in a game where you have to be a master in something. There are several things the revenant can do, but other classes do better:

(1) A renegade can keep a group might capped. This is good, but they don't do it as well as a druid can.(2) A renegade can boon strip. This is good, but they are neither as consistent nor as powerful as the chronomancer and scourge respectively.(3) A healing rev can have decent uptime of alacrity. Chronomancer, however, does it much better.(4) A healing rev is excellent at healing a group. However, the tempest does it in a much wider area and the druid does more.(5) A renegade has average ramp up time and serviceable damage. However, it is beaten out by half of the classes.(6) A herald has good boon granting abilities. But they have only one unique boon, and nearly everything they do is covered by other classes.(7) A herald has excellent self-sustaining abilities, even on a power build. But, healers are commonplace now.(8) A herald has mediocre sustained DPS and no burst.

About the only things really stellar on the class are its CC and the projectile reflection. The Revenant is not incapable in any matter. So long as you have your wits about you, a rev can fulfill multiple roles and do many things. But, if you need a highly specialized role or if you're on a team that believes such, then the Rev is almost never an ideal option.

Revenant isn't "bad". It's a fun class that works if you know what you are doing. In PvE it's fine. In PvP it has issues.

However those issues are mainly due to how anet mishandled PoF. Every other class ( except ele ) received an overloaded new spec that has it all. Great defense. Great offense. Invulns up the wazoo. 4s stab on 6s cooldown. Stunbreaks on dodge. Free mobility. spammable barriers.

Revenant got Renegade. Renegade is a fairly balanced spec around condi damage and some new abilities. However, this is exactly the problem. It's balanced in a meta where everything else is busted. Renegade has crap for defensive options to deal with the power creep, and thus Revenant is forced to still play Herald or even "core" Revenant, both of which are also negatively affected by having to deal with OP PoF specs.

Rev isn't bad, there are just other professions that are too good right now and everyone wants to play what's best. When you want to play rev and you give it a fair chance, you may find that you love it if you aren't comparing it to any other profession.

A random thing I just thought about was if rev was the only profession in the game it would be fine and no one would complain about how weak it is. It's only when you compare it to other more powerful specs that it loses it's shine.

I guess it depends on what you want out of the game and how you play though. Since I'm mostly just an open world roamer I'm perfectly content with running around on my revenant, but the same can be said about any other profession too.

If you try to bring your rev into high level fractals and raids or PvP, that's where you'll notice its weaknesses more.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:The class is a jack of all trades in a game where you have to be a master in something. There are several things the revenant can do, but other classes do better:

(1) A renegade can keep a group might capped. This is good, but they don't do it as well as a druid can.(2) A renegade can boon strip. This is good, but they are neither as consistent nor as powerful as the chronomancer and scourge respectively.(3) A healing rev can have decent uptime of alacrity. Chronomancer, however, does it much better.(4) A healing rev is excellent at healing a group. However, the tempest does it in a much wider area and the druid does more.(5) A renegade has average ramp up time and serviceable damage. However, it is beaten out by half of the classes.(6) A herald has good boon granting abilities. But they have only one unique boon, and nearly everything they do is covered by other classes.(7) A herald has excellent self-sustaining abilities, even on a power build. But, healers are commonplace now.(8) A herald has mediocre sustained DPS and no burst.

About the only things really stellar on the class are its CC and the projectile reflection. The Revenant is not incapable in any matter. So long as you have your wits about you, a rev can fulfill multiple roles and do many things. But, if you need a highly specialized role or if you're on a team that believes such, then the Rev is almost never an ideal option.

I would like to add several comments here :1) A healing rev can cover the roles of both Chronomancer and Druid - making more room for damage dealers in the party2) Boon striping isn't limited to Renegade,you can do it on core as well - it's just as weak when compared to chrono and scourge3) There are 2 types of healing revenants, Renegades and Heralds: Herald healers apply protection very easy, while Renegades gain one extra skill with which to apply alacrity. This is ignoring the benefits gained from the Herald and Renegade unique stances.

Here is some advanced reading material: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7bnpku/raid_support_renegade/The support role is the main reason why you would create a Revenant,so I won't give you guides on how to make Power Herald or Condi Renegade.