How to deal with Mirages?

Can someone tell me what do to against a mirage? Both condi and power builds, especially the ones who run axe.

I encountered this Platinum Footman rank guy and the fight was 1 or 2 minute long, I didn't got him under 95% health, he was perma evade, perma invuln, and yeah I was tracking him through the clones.

How I am supposed to beat a class who has maybe 1 second open window for counter play?

Obviously I didn't spam my attacks when he was using distortion shatter skill, or other evades but still none of my skills hit me once, he probably was chaining like 12 evades constantly in rotation, and literally every second 5 clones spawning nonstop.

I don't wanna call for hacks because a platinum rank maybe mastered the spec, but seriously he didn't drop under 95% health...

play the classes you have problems with and learn the gimmicks/tricks and the cd's as well as skill animations for a starters. also play a build with high burst or something with ports so you can get in there face (vs power mes) dunno about condi though, i guess anything like another mesmer or a thief is the best bet, but I have seen all class's handle mirage as they know what to look for.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:play the classes you have problems with and learn the gimmicks/tricks and the cd's as well as skill animations for a starters. also play a build with high burst or something with ports so you can get in there face (vs power mes) dunno about condi though, i guess anything like another mesmer or a thief is the best bet, but I have seen all class's handle mirage as they know what to look for.

There is nothing to learn : distortion off CD into stealth/sword ambush/reflect traited/stunbreak on dodge = basically untouchable ...ha did you take some dmg? Jaunt away x3 and come back full Hp few sec later...not even a thief can catch you now....but ofc all this is a L2P issue am I right?

Mesmers are OP 1v1 and need serious nerfing.You have power builds that can one shot, and condi build that push out 5k ticks of confusion and burning.All this while being invisible and having lots of decoys out.But Anet would rather focus on utterly destroying scourge with obscene nerfs because more ppl moan about it.Why don't you nerf mes Anet? I really don't get it.

@whoknocks.4935 said:Can someone tell me what do to against a mirage? Both condi and power builds, especially the ones who run axe.

I encountered this Platinum Footman rank guy and the fight was 1 or 2 minute long, I didn't got him under 95% health, he was perma evade, perma invuln, and yeah I was tracking him through the clones.

How I am supposed to beat a class who has maybe 1 second open window for counter play?

Obviously I didn't spam my attacks when he was using distortion shatter skill, or other evades but still none of my skills hit me once, he probably was chaining like 12 evades constantly in rotation, and literally every second 5 clones spawning nonstop.

I don't wanna call for hacks because a platinum rank maybe mastered the spec, but seriously he didn't drop under 95% health...

It's a busted spec especially in wvw, the max you can do is try a very tanky build and attempt to annoy him to death, the whole concept has zero counterplay and as you've stated already you may have maybe 1s window once in while to attack the mesmer and that never enough thx to stunbreak on dodge/traited reflect or stealth , a plethora of blinks etc...untouchable and really it's 10% skill and 90% build so don't feel bad

Don't rush the mesmer and take the condi or power cleave from shatters. Kiting is the best way to go, mes doesn't have infinite gap closers like a thief does. SB war, S/D and D/P thief is great to deal against Mirage. Staff/Longbow Druid stealth spam is also excellent, but you rarely see a good beastmaster druid while roaming.

Mirage is overtuned att. They have daredevil like mobility with sword ambush, good stealth uptime, and the best burst in the game.Condi mirages are abominations that should have never been put in the game, being able to apply heaps of torment and confusion in seconds while the mirage is evading. So yea the best way to deal with a mirage is to avoid it, if everyone does this the mirage players will get bored due to having no one to harass with their bs.

Off topic but the notion of a 'condi burst' is absurd and should never occur, because conditions are meant to be attrition type damage that ramp up, not instantaneous bombs that can be re-applied on a <10 sec interval.

You can't counter-burst a power mirage due to how their dodge works. To beat one, you have to out-play them burst for burst by matching your sustain to their burst, then laying on damage when blink is on CD and they've used their f4. Even then, with the bit of stealth + their huge mobility, they can easily escape.

The only way to actually down one is to bait them into coming in for another burst once most of their defence is on cooldown. A good one won't get cocky like that though. It really is OP in 1v1 scenarios at the moment.

Play mirage better than them?

D:

There is no counter against a good mirage. U either need to become a mirage yourself and play even better than him, or play a thief at god-level.

Die, waypoint, pipdown, come to forums and add your voice to the ignored roar of voices calling for this to be fixed (pack a lunch, Anet seems to have a sick sense of humor about daredevils and mirages) I think the idea is to give pvp'ers something to do while waiting for a match

There's no counter. You cannot beat the best spec in the game.

A lot of misguided information on this forum regarding Mesmer Mirage spec. Same old same old.

Played condi mirage yesterday in WvW.

There are two specs I had problem against:

1. Boon duration spellbreaker. These guys just have way too much resistance for condition to eat through their HP pool. Very small time window to get any burst damage in.
2. Condition thief. They only need to land 1 hit to eat through your entire HP pool. Mirage doesn't have good burst cleanse. They just surprise you with 1 steal burst and your only option is to flee.

When I play condi mes, I find well-played perma-evade thieves and some warriors to be the builds most threatening 1v1. Granted, I play axe MH instead of sword, so I give up some survival for faster condi stacking. Thief comes down to who times their evades and shadowsteps better, and warrior is a long fight that usually comes down to who gets a +1 first. Or whoever gets bored and runs away.

@EvilSardine.9635 said:There's no counter. You cannot beat the best spec in the game.

The spec described in OP is the best spec? Lol

He's describing what sounds like a full minstrel mirage - though I fail to see the point of such a mirage, a chrono is usually much more popular. The OP was fighting 1-2 minutes against him not doing any damage. Just like fighting a full minstrel druid, full minstrel firebrand, full minstrel ele, full minstrel spellbreaker, pick your poison. Hell even a full minstrel thief will be immortal. But they rarely have enough damage to kill anyone unless they heavily outnumber them. With that kind of combat time the OP could have ran halfway across the map into an objective.

If it had been the best spec in the game the fight would have lasted < 5 seconds and the mesmer would have taken considerable damage when hit because glass is still glass.

And if it was a skilled mirage on the best spec... OP lasted a very, very long time so I would start to wonder what he was running that a mirage couldnt bring down, lol.

play weaver, there is no condi spec that can kill a celestial weaver , you have more sustain and condi clear that they could ever apply, im half celestial (only armor) and half bersek (rest) just for the lulz, if you meat a condi mesmer , no matter which of the condi builds he plays , you can either kill him (if hes stupid enough and thinks you are an easy kill and wastes his cds) , or stalemate forever if he is to tanky, i once had a 10min duel with a condi mes and we could not kill each other

@whoknocks.4935 said:How I am supposed to beat a class who has maybe 1 second open window for counter play?

What were you playing yourself? We can give you better advice that way. There are ways to combat Mirage and some classes/specs counter what it can do very well.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@EvilSardine.9635 said:There's no counter. You cannot beat the best spec in the game.

He wasn't minstrel at all, and after i had all my skills on cd he killed me from 100% to 0 hp in 3 to 5 seconds, I lasted that long dodging, kiting, blocking, healing myself while trying to burst him of course and apparently he was impossible to hit due to all evades perfecf timed and instead I was eaten alive. He seemed never run off cooldowns and he was spamming clones for all the fight, I sincerely dunno how that was possible, other mirages (maybe more inexperienced) give me problems but i can see how im hitting them when they finish the evades, but this game was another level, kept constant pressure on me while chaining an evade after another.I have no troubles dealing even with spellbreakers, which are considered kinda op at the moment, their skills are so easy to read and dodge and so the fight is so much fun, against mirage is just a stupid screen mess filled with clones and shatter sound in your earplugs and i have no clue what to do...

Mesmer is really insane right now in WvW. I can beat about half of them just because they are not that good but the top 25% of mesmers are just crazy. They have so many defensive moves where I try to land a hit on them but I just cant do it due to evade, reflect, block, etc. Really tough to fight. Only the bad ones are left out in the open susceptible to attack. The good ones know how to stay almost permanently un-attackable. Mesmer does need some more downtime on their defense.

Mirage will only die if it lets itself die in WvW. So in that sense you really dont.

If they decide to not run away, then you just need to dodge their bursts and play a class that can do decent against it. Unfortunately, very few specs can fight mirage in general right now.

I just ignore them. It's not a fun fight for anyone but the mirage.

@"Sekai.2987" said:play weaver, there is no condi spec that can kill a celestial weaver , you have more sustain and condi clear that they could ever apply, im half celestial (only armor) and half bersek (rest) just for the lulz, if you meat a condi mesmer , no matter which of the condi builds he plays , you can either kill him (if hes stupid enough and thinks you are an easy kill and wastes his cds) , or stalemate forever if he is to tanky, i once had a 10min duel with a condi mes and we could not kill each other

Play core condi necro.Able to kill weaver.Also able to kill mirage, both condi and power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj40PBfbXmU

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"Sekai.2987" said:play weaver, there is no condi spec that can kill a celestial weaver , you have more sustain and condi clear that they could ever apply, im half celestial (only armor) and half bersek (rest) just for the lulz, if you meat a condi mesmer , no matter which of the condi builds he plays , you can either kill him (if hes stupid enough and thinks you are an easy kill and wastes his cds) , or stalemate forever if he is to tanky, i once had a 10min duel with a condi mes and we could not kill each other

it seems like you are on NA ,to bad would have loved to play against you and see how this build is working against me because i cant remember when i saw a core nec the last time in wvw, most are just scourge zerglings and i meet maybe one roamer a day

Same tactic as always against any mesmer:

1. Big AoE to get rid of clones fast so they need to wait out cd's for more
2. Patience - hit that bulls charge AFTER their invuln icon disappears
3. Don't waste all your burst skills after a successful first hit, bait out their defensive skills/dodges first
4. Pressure - always keep the pressure up so they don't have time to use their 7-step 100-0 combo
5. Use your class advantages - thieves use CnD on clones, warriors invuln the burst, rangers taunt clones with pet, eles reflect for friendly clones, guardians turtle up with symbols and block/burn, revs use distance for dmg, engis outrun them and so forth
6. A blinded phantasm is a useless phantasm, a crippled one slow, chill for effect - use your control condi's on clones
7. ALWAYS keep a dodge in reserve, as you will need it for the next burst

If you're having trouble fighting mesmers after PoF, you most likely would have trouble before as well. Plus you should expect a little more if they are platinum or above, as they usually have more experience. While I do agree they have way too much defense atm, a bad player will still waste them and a good one use them to down you. The only "unfair advantage" they have is Jaunt with it's 3 charges, but it has a cast time to allow counter play. Mirages force you to play better in order to win, which good players already have since 2012.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"EvilSardine.9635" said:There's no counter. You cannot beat the best spec in the game.

Well, what are you implying? That he cheated? Some players can squirt clones like there's no tomorrow (bonus points for actually being two mesmers in the same outfits) but a video always help if you want tips on how to fight them.

What where you playing? The thing is, skill and builds matter alot sometimes. Hell, sometimes even pure luck (or seriously bad timing on the opposing side). Maybe you where simply hardcountered in every sense of the word by him. I dont know, I didnt see the fight. That the fight lasted 1-2 minutes yet he could kill you in 3-5 seconds indicate he was either glassy and incredibly good at avoiding damage - and trust me, once in a while I've seen such mirages that completely owned me even though I can kill an overwhelming majority of other mirages I meet. Or he was some bunker that hardcountered your build, such as trailblazers vs zero condi removal. Even being built heavy I've falled for surprise-25-confusion-stacks-up-the-kitten in group fights and died in seconds too - even though I can later duel the same player and roflstomp him taking near zero damage. Those kinds of builds against zero condi removal is a true noob filter because all they need to do is kite you if you cant do pressure in return.

TL;DR are there good mesmers? For sure. Are there very good mesmers? A few per matchup almost guaranteed. Are there bad mesmers? Uuuuuuuuugh...

(who needs clones anyway)

This really isnt any different from any other class. I've met druids I couldnt bring down. Firebrands haha... They dont even take damage sometimes. Weavers that brushed off damage. Dont even get me started on spellbreakers. If the top 25% of mesmers are hard to kill because they got evades, the bottom 75% of spellbreakers survives on hp regen and invoulnerable stance alone while having zerker damage.