Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged] - Page 8 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged]

1568101117

Comments

  • Luna.6203Luna.6203 Member ✭✭✭

    @SnapzGW.3795 said:
    Hello
    Yes another mirage thread! woohoo! But seriously how isnt mirage being balanced yet? im so sick and tired going against these power houses!
    I mean its allmost impossible it lockdown between the dazes, elusive mind, invunlnerable, and teleports (non "stunbreaks", take Jaunt as an example).
    If you stun them they just walk it of like it was nothing or they use daze essentially rendering you useless for the duration of the CC you put out. Yes! EM got a nerf but that was kitten! it still hard to punish a mirage for making a mistake or even multiple mistakes, they just waltz away like its nothing, if you hit CC let them sit in that unless they have an actual kitten stunbreak! And the clone spam is just ridiculous! just limit the mesmer to 3 clones or let the 3+clones do reduced dmg or no dmg at all.
    And not to mention the huge condi cover they have please just limit that to just a few! so atleast we can cleanse some of the dmg.

    kitten mirage!

    • Snapz

    100% agree !!!

    Nice rant. I'm glad people spam forum with this issues because anet need to finally realize how broken pvp is because of this class(spec).

    For everyone advising learn to plan hit right target. consider this:

    there are most likely two mesmers in match and its mess beyond imagination. + other classes like necro wells etc.. its just one big mess.

    even if you leap to right target before hit land its again clone/ilus or immune or invisible...

    Mirage is most tanky most mobile and incredible zergy class.. whats the point even play other classes... which in many cases are not top even a single aspect?

    Then need to get nerf hard.. forget about balance other classes or titles in pvp ... this should be your priority!

    No more placebo nerfs! Nerf mirage seriously!

    Gl with this topic a be ready for huge disagreement because 50% ppl already play mirage.

  • Vaeo.4097Vaeo.4097 Member ✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    After @Trevor Boyer.6524 post about how he tested mirage I decided to try it myself. But with 2 significant differences:

    • I did it in ranked
    • I have some experiense with mesmer (several hundreds games on Chronophantasma Shatter during seasons 5-8). I stopped playing mesmer after PoF appears, because mirage was boring, super boring (both power and condi).

    Ok, that's was background. Now my impressions after 20 games. It's very simple: I can't find any viable mesmer build (mirage, chrono tried different variants).
    I mean, what role could mesmer fill?

    • Side node holder? No. You can't withstand fight against Soulbeast or Spellbreaker. They just faceroll mesmer, they don't even bother to dodge any of my attacks.
    • Heavy burst damage build? Well, glass soulbeast, guard, daredevil, deadeye and revenant are much better in this role.
    • Range dps with Greatsword and Infinite Horizon? Well, this works but generally not better than ranger or deadeye.

    Overall damage increased when PoF appeared and continued increasing during last year. Yeah, despite all this "nerfes" overall damage level in game increased.
    Mesmer very susceptible to heavy power damage (and it always was susceptible, even before PoF) and target breaking doesn't have much sense because most of the damage is aoe now.

    In short: some GS builds are more or less ok. Condi mirage has no real role in team, many builds can fill his role better.

    P.S.
    By the way, I hate target breaking mechanics Mirage has.

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭

    All the Mesmer elite specs need major nerfs. There is a reason that AI specs like turret engineer and MM necro are not viable in PvP. They are awful to paly against and create too much clutter. On top of that Mesmer has great mobility, the most 0 cast time skills, stealth access, and good sustained damage because they don't have to pick between offense and defense. They get it all in one package. It deserves to get the same level of nerfs that celestial ele got. It is bad for the PvP game.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2018

    Yeah, yeah, nerfs all mesmers elite specs, then give them the same stability, protection, aegis, swiftness, vigor uptime of other meta build (and easy might stacks too.).
    Also make mirror blade hit 4k+ pet hit to be in pair with other class damage 8sec cd and change distortion to be 35 CD for free hit during damage/cc immune like some other can do.

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Yeah, yeah, nerfs all mesmers elite specs, then give them the same stability, protection, aegis, swiftness, vigor uptime of other meta build (and easy might stacks too.).
    Also make mirror blade hit 4k+ pet hit to be in pair with other class damage 8sec cd and change distortion to be 35 CD for free hit during damage/cc immune like some other can do.

    I know. People keep on about mesmer but don't realize if it gets all these nerfs, it will be pre-Hot when mesmer was useless in pvp

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steveraptor.9603 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:
    A good deal of it depends on your matchup but these are some of the general rules I use for fighting condi mirage and it's helped me be pretty successful:
    1) When they stealth, count to 3 and then dodge, they are most likely trying a massive condi burst (95% of players playing this build are mechanically meh and won't think to shift around their playstyle so you will see this opener almost every fight) and dodging it will let you avoid most of their damage while putting the player in a relly bad position
    2) The best time to cc them is when they use the axe whirl skill
    3) If you play something like holo, do static discharge bursts (or any other large on demand burst) during all their animation locks to punish them
    4) I find that if you get hit with a burst it's much easier to survive if you kite and start using LoS to force the mes to get in a more confined space where you can dump damage on him. Know that because they have superior mobility, most mirages will not hesitate to chase because they assume they can catch you quickly and pull off a kill. If you can get them to tunnel vision the kill, you can get a very strong bait play out of it.
    5) Manage your condi removal very sparingly, if you blow everything for each little condi you see, you'll be out of cd's before you get a chance to hit the mes. It will drive you crazy but sometimes you gotta get used to letting the condis tick if it saves your cds for a better time.
    6) Do your damage in bursts, mirage has a ton of evasion and invuln to use so trying to do constant damage can be very rough outside of things like weaver that can put out consistent pressure while evading

    Hope those have been helpful, let me know if there's anything else you want to know.

    I have a question regarding the stealth burst, does shield block stops it? or only evade works?

    Blocks will work too. I tend to use my engi's photon wall to block it so I can counter burst in fact. Really any form of damage mitigation will be effective (as long as it's hard damage mitigation, not things like protection). I just used dodge as the term because it's a mechanic available to everyone in game.

  • Condis are totally out of role anyways. What is the real difference between condi and burst now? There almost is non.
    Condis should be "dmg over time", getting stronger over time. Today condi is just a different kind of burst.

    Anet would need to reduce condi spam and condi cleance spam. Condis need to be able to be put on over longer periode of time getting stronger over time with stacks.
    Exept for burn, it was much more like this way in the past.

    Now, they also could make the different condis much stronger in its nature and much weaker in base dmg. Meaning.
    Give torrment low base dmg too almost nothing, but strong dmg on movement.
    Give poison much lower dmg over time, but give it a healing reducen of 66% instead of 33%.
    Give confusion much lesser base dmg, but strong dmg on attacking.
    And so on.
    If it would be done right, you could activly avoid condi-dmg or eighter be destoryed by it if you are not paying attention.

    But ofc it would have to add up with the rest of the games combat.
    It would probably take some braineffort to do this right and I personally don´t know how it could be done right in todays spammy state of the game.

    That´s why I don´t think it will happen anyways.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @gw niko.1049 said:
    Give confusion much lesser base dmg, but strong dmg on attacking.

    Alrdy like that, you dont use skills but with lots of stacks you blowing urself

    Give torrment low base dmg too almost nothing, but strong dmg on movement.

    U get twice much damage for moving. I alrdy see warriors,engis ,druid etc standing AFK on point and spam /laugh at mesmer trying to kill them

    Anet would need to reduce condi spam and condi cleance spam. Condis need to be able to be put on over longer periode of time getting stronger over time with stacks.

    They would need not only just reduce condi and cleanse spam but overall power damage . Why ? Because you would be blown up faster than you can apply anything. With overall damage reduce we would need also cut healing to prevent bunker meta

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @Daishi.6027 said:
    I've stated already many times fair shaves condi could receive, and would argue power really didn't need any.

    But a response to the issue a lot of people have with Mirage 1v1, I would suggest you familiarize yourself with a martial arts concept of "Seme"

    With a good Seme, you waste less cooldowns against defensive options, and you force your enemy to blow theirs.

    There are a few strictly beneficial/counter matchups between all classes/builds. However making good trades will almost always reward you the upper hand.

    Maybe when your opponent runs, don't chase.
    Maybe when you stun, don't instantly burst expecting it to cleanly land.
    Maybe when your opponent is ready to dodge your burst, don't burst.

    Apply mental pressure, make openings.
    Feel their killing intent and evade.

    Sure you can argue having a plethora of evades makes this redundant, but count the access to evades a mirage has, it is on par with any class with access to vigor.
    (S/D thief and ranger has much more access to evade than any mirage)

    You may find this hard when surrounded by illusions, but this is part of what separates strong players from weak ones, and is the entire point of the mechanic.

    +1 on this
    finally some brain.

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @steveraptor.9603 said:

    @Ario.8964 said:
    A good deal of it depends on your matchup but these are some of the general rules I use for fighting condi mirage and it's helped me be pretty successful:
    1) When they stealth, count to 3 and then dodge, they are most likely trying a massive condi burst (95% of players playing this build are mechanically meh and won't think to shift around their playstyle so you will see this opener almost every fight) and dodging it will let you avoid most of their damage while putting the player in a relly bad position
    2) The best time to cc them is when they use the axe whirl skill
    3) If you play something like holo, do static discharge bursts (or any other large on demand burst) during all their animation locks to punish them
    4) I find that if you get hit with a burst it's much easier to survive if you kite and start using LoS to force the mes to get in a more confined space where you can dump damage on him. Know that because they have superior mobility, most mirages will not hesitate to chase because they assume they can catch you quickly and pull off a kill. If you can get them to tunnel vision the kill, you can get a very strong bait play out of it.
    5) Manage your condi removal very sparingly, if you blow everything for each little condi you see, you'll be out of cd's before you get a chance to hit the mes. It will drive you crazy but sometimes you gotta get used to letting the condis tick if it saves your cds for a better time.
    6) Do your damage in bursts, mirage has a ton of evasion and invuln to use so trying to do constant damage can be very rough outside of things like weaver that can put out consistent pressure while evading

    Hope those have been helpful, let me know if there's anything else you want to know.

    I have a question regarding the stealth burst, does shield block stops it? or only evade works?

    Blocks will work too. I tend to use my engi's photon wall to block it so I can counter burst in fact. Really any form of damage mitigation will be effective (as long as it's hard damage mitigation, not things like protection). I just used dodge as the term because it's a mechanic available to everyone in game.

    You're gonna eat the Mirrorblade if you block only - It's unblockable and can hit for roughly 4-8 k depending on Crit and if all 3 hits bounce to u.

    @gw niko.1049 said:
    Condis are totally out of role anyways. What is the real difference between condi and burst now? There almost is non.
    Condis should be "dmg over time", getting stronger over time. Today condi is just a different kind of burst.

    Anet would need to reduce condi spam and condi cleance spam. Condis need to be able to be put on over longer periode of time getting stronger over time with stacks.
    Exept for burn, it was much more like this way in the past.

    Now, they also could make the different condis much stronger in its nature and much weaker in base dmg. Meaning.
    Give torrment low base dmg too almost nothing, but strong dmg on movement.
    Give poison much lower dmg over time, but give it a healing reducen of 66% instead of 33%.
    Give confusion much lesser base dmg, but strong dmg on attacking.
    And so on.
    If it would be done right, you could activly avoid condi-dmg or eighter be destoryed by it if you are not paying attention.

    But ofc it would have to add up with the rest of the games combat.
    It would probably take some braineffort to do this right and I personally don´t know how it could be done right in todays spammy state of the game.

    That´s why I don´t think it will happen anyways.

    seems like you have actually no clue about condis.
    Confusion ticks for TEN passive dmg per second per stack.

    Only burst Condis are Burn and Confu by it's nature. Both are designed to deal good ammount of damage in short time.
    Confusion actually stays for like 3 seconds.

    Usual high Torment spikes are arround 1,5k - 2k per sec = 10 sec for 20k HP
    Usual zerker auto attack is arround 4-6k = 3 sec for 18k HP

    Yes conditions are damage over time.

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • Syprus Soulslayer.1640Syprus Soulslayer.1640 Member ✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    has anyone considered the new trinkets like Grieving etc. as the possible cause for QQ?? I run Grieving Mirage in Spvp ( this is the first time I'm actually attempting to place on the leader-boards - currently plat 1 with 13 games left ) it's very effective but not god mode in spvp. You win matches and you loose matches... I'm usually top damage offense etc. but that means nothing if you loose the match. All I'm seeing is QQ about "condi" mirage when there's viable options ( non-meta ) that will give you access to both power and condition damage and when played right can have devastating outcomes. There's a lot of confusion about blinds, reflects, etc. before you go on here and QQ perhaps you should roll one and actually play the class to understand how it works. I'm not a Spvp regular by any means but I've had lots of seat time with Mesmer in general ( 5k + hours played on my main in WvW, PvE, Spvp combined ) and as is the case with anyone who has played a class for a long time you're going to be better at it than the average player to some degree. You're only as good as your team is when playing Spvp and with the Potluck that is solo queue you never really know how the game is going to go until you engage the other team. PLAY THE kitten CLASS IF YOU'RE HAVING PROBLEMS SURVIVING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS!!!

    a good gold 3 match & personal highest damage ever achieved in a single game to date:

    a steam of bad Plat 1 games:

    and good plat games ( I don't screenshot all of my games obviously ):

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    Mesmer sustain:

    Mechanics = >blur<, >distortion<, mirror, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as obstacles, >stealths<, >portal<, >teleports< (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink)
    Crowd Controls = >Dazes<, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...)
    Crowd Control Conditions = >Blinds<, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc
    Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor,
    Escape = portal, blink, stealths

    Half aren't efficient.

    Everything is efficient in certain situations (even vulnerability).

    Boons and other CC conditions have minimal impact.

    Rofl, that affirmation is a shot in my eyes.

    PS: your build lack condi clear.

    True, but you wont need cond removal if you perma cc your enemy, or become imortal during 50% of the fight, or perma blind the guy between ur immortalities and CC's.

    Other class meta builds have better stab uptime, protection, resistance, heal/sec regen, weapon sustain which are more usefull to fight on point.

    Mirage had infinity break stuns, so this is almost equal to stability.
    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @breno.5423 said:
    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

    Perma dodge perma immortality...omegalul ...cc spam... from where comes such exaggerations(just like rest of your post) . I have theory : lower skill(perception) = more exaggerations

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    Having played about 80 games this weekend, I don't know how people are complaining about Condition Mirage when Boonbeasts are clearly the most cancerous spec in game at the moment with 2-4X of them every single match. They're more over populated than Mirages, deadeyes, and Reapers were earlier in the season. It's more resilient than and with as much condition cleanse and sustain as prenerf druids back when sidenoding druids were all the rage and it has spellbreaker tier damage on top of it. Nothing can 1v1 these. Very few can 2v1 these. I think it's just people's uniquely petulant response to dying from condition damage in specific regardless of whether condition damage is even good or not in the grand scheme of things.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

    Perma dodge perma immortality...omegalul ...cc spam... from where comes such exaggerations(just like rest of your post) . I have theory : lower skill(perception) = more exaggerations

    Just an example:

    Chrono: Staff 5 (3x daze), F3 (3x daze), Shield 5 (2x stun), 2x Gravity wall (6 pulls) = 14 CCs

    Another example:

    Mirage thrust: 1 stun every 3/4 sec

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    Mirage had infinity break stuns, so this is almost equal to stability.
    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

    Thats what YOU said , not me.

    @breno.5423 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

    Perma dodge perma immortality...omegalul ...cc spam... from where comes such exaggerations(just like rest of your post) . I have theory : lower skill(perception) = more exaggerations

    Just an example:

    Chrono: Staff 5 (3x daze), F3 (3x daze), Shield 5 (2x stun), 2x Gravity wall (6 pulls) = 14 CCs

    Another example:

    Mirage thrust: 1 stun every 3/4 sec

    That you said about mirage...
    According to you :
    Staff5 always daze 3 times
    No matter what F3 daze 3seconds or whatever it is but always 3 times
    Mirage can use chronomancer shield !
    Mirage can use chronomancer gravity well twice
    Mirage hacked the game and made 'mirage thrust' not to daze 1/4s but turned into a 1second stun with 3/4 seconds cooldown . Actual stun time is longer than cooldown...
    Why do you hate yourself that much? Why you cant stop shame yourself ... ? Why...
    Thank you for confirming my theory .You are free to go

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @breno.5423 said:
    Everything is efficient in certain situations (even vulnerability).

    Not when every other meta class have less mechanics but more efficient.

    Boons and other CC conditions have minimal impact.

    Rofl, that affirmation is a shot in my eyes.

    Because in your mind chaos armor and chaos storm are the best temporisation tools of the world...

    PS: your build lack condi clear.

    True, but you wont need cond removal if you perma cc your enemy, or become imortal during 50% of the fight, or perma blind the guy between ur immortalities and CC's.

    NO build in the meta can be perma CCed (even necro have 1 breakstunt or 1 instant fear or something.), We never saw lockdown mesmer meta as biggest prove.
    Mesmer haven't 50% immune => it can't fight on point versus most meta builds.
    No build in the meta can be perma blind because everyone have minimum 1 condiclear who autoproc on classic rotation or spam attacks faster than blind application.

    Other class meta builds have better stab uptime, protection, resistance, heal/sec regen, weapon sustain which are more usefull to fight on point.

    Mirage had infinity break stuns, so this is almost equal to stability.

    Mirage have 3 to 4 breakstunt. 2 on 30 sec CD, 2 on 18 to 30 sec CD. It hasn't stability from classic rotation like near every other meta specs have.

    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

    It has actually one the worst endurance regeneration compared to other meta-build.
    (And lol at 1.5 sec on mirage spec.).
    Mirage is not good at CC spam when we compare to other class. (without sword ambush, even necro have more CC.)
    Blind on shatter is only good against warriors when they haven't resistance proc.

    Just an example:
    Chrono: Staff 5 (3x daze), F3 (3x daze), Shield 5 (2x stun), 2x Gravity wall (6 pulls) = 14 CCs
    Another example:
    Mirage thrust: 1 stun every 3/4 sec

    Staff is random aoe daze, everyone, even in backpedal can go out of the aoe.
    F3 is only good when your are in melee to CC from mesmer, because clone will most of time get detroyed by random hit before CC. (not to say that you can't stay on melee, because of massive opponents aoe so you have to use one or two teleport to do that.)
    Shield 5 have a 3/4 second cast than the time the wave hit you. Only oysters get hit by it.
    Gravity wall need an oponent with no breakstunt, no aegis proc, no mobility skills its pretty rare.
    If you double it, your oponent have the time to saw it coming.
    Now compare thoses CC to instant aoe or more than 1 sec duration other meta class have please. I change mesmer CC to necro core and elites, gards core and elites, soulbeast, Spellbreaker, core war, holo, thief when you want.

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    10k damage on tick, trololo

  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    And is priority in cleanses. Requires heavy investment to achieve. And is a very squishy build with no condi cleanses.

  • @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    And is priority in cleanses. Requires heavy investment to achieve. And is a very squishy build with no condi cleanses.

    NPC taking twice as much . Thats weird he didnt took damage from raid and scream LOOK LOOK 20k torments!:D

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    Condition does double damage against NPCs like Forest NPCs and Ranger pets.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    And is priority in cleanses. Requires heavy investment to achieve. And is a very squishy build with no condi cleanses.

    Not really. I play mes.

    Assuming it's an inspiration build because sword torch, which is also what I play. There is plenty of cleanse. Each juant removes 1 condition. Each f button removes conditions. Signet of midnight removes all condis. Signet of ilussion allows u to recharge all f skills and so u can remove again. There is literally 12 Condi removals. The f skills also do Condi dmg upon activation .that's just the minimum active removal.

    With traits every clone u make takes a condition. So u can just spam axe 2 which takes another 2. Signet of ilusion also randomly generates clones which take off condition. You basically cannot die to Condi.

    25k hp is not squishy at all. Esp not with 2 stealths, 2 distorts,2 dodges,4 teleports. Before you say jaunt range is low. Small range teleports is actually what u want. To port out of stuns. For example if a warrior dazes you and is about to use hundred blades. U can jaunt right out of it n use your next skill. Since daze is only 1 second. Another is to jaunt up spots so they can't hit u. Plenty in every map.

    It's literally is the most for giving build in the entire game. I am going to play the kitten out it untill they Nerf it.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With full condi gear, the highest recorded I ever have on record is 12xxx. Hybrid is much more modest at about 6-7k in pvp. But them 8-10k Mind Wrack wombo combos :wink:

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    With full condi gear, the highest recorded I ever have on record is 12xxx. Hybrid is much more modest at about 6-7k in pvp. But them 8-10k Mind Wrack wombo combos :wink:

    PvE talk here, but in raids I've gotten 50k+.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    And is priority in cleanses. Requires heavy investment to achieve. And is a very squishy build with no condi cleanses.

    Not really. I play mes.

    Assuming it's an inspiration build because sword torch, which is also what I play. There is plenty of cleanse. Each juant removes 1 condition. Each f button removes conditions. Signet of midnight removes all condis. Signet of ilussion allows u to recharge all f skills and so u can remove again. There is literally 12 Condi removals. The f skills also do Condi dmg upon activation .that's just the minimum active removal.

    With traits every clone u make takes a condition. So u can just spam axe 2 which takes another 2. Signet of ilusion also randomly generates clones which take off condition. You basically cannot die to Condi.

    25k hp is not squishy at all. Esp not with 2 stealths, 2 distorts,2 dodges,4 teleports. Before you say jaunt range is low. Small range teleports is actually what u want. To port out of stuns. For example if a warrior dazes you and is about to use hundred blades. U can jaunt right out of it n use your next skill. Since daze is only 1 second. Another is to jaunt up spots so they can't hit u. Plenty in every map.

    It's literally is the most for giving build in the entire game. I am going to play the kitten out it untill they Nerf it.

    To have inspi you give up a lot of damage.
    If you give up duel you either lose clone generation or confusion burst.
    If you give up illusion you give up cry of pain, maim and increased condi damage.
    So with the build they're talking about you end up with jaunt and torch 4 as your only condi removals, considering jaunt is used as mobility and attaking too (if self-deception is traited) and torch 4 is used to burst, condi removal is really low.

    The degenerate

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @Toron.4856 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    lol what??? How are you complaining about mesmers when there are much more broken classes out there. Look at the Holo kitten! Or the warrior. Every game now 2 holos. and the team without loses. Nice balance Anet. gg.

    When u think war and holo r more busted than mirage ur obv a woodtier player that has a l2p issue.

    Holo and war both can be outplayed and have weaknesses. Mirage doesn't.

    It has one weakness:
    A better mirage player in enemy team xD

    Its really funny. Scourge isn't allowed to do 3 conditions with F1.
    1 burning, 1torment, 1 cripple
    Now we can add 1 vulnerability and 1corrupted boon.

    But mesmer is allowed to do like: 10stacks burning, 10 stacks confusion, 10 stacks torment and bleed and blind and like all the conditions available in an instant.

    So that if you move, you die to torment, if you try to condicleanses you take insane amounts of confusion damage and have to hope, that confusion get actually cleansed, else it will hurt even more.

    This is nuts! And on top of that, it's one of the most mobile classes in the game, maybe even the one with the best mobility and gets invulnerability and invisibility on top of that, as well as blocks, target breaking, evades....

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    But mesmer is allowed to do like: 10stacks burning, 10 stacks confusion, 10 stacks torment and bleed and blind and like all the conditions available in an instant.

    3 illusions prerequise + 3 sec torch precast + 1 CD phantasm cast + illusions moving to you + re-3 illusions prerequise + re-illusions moving to you = an instant. Ok.
    Well, I will be very happy to change this instant to real 10+ instant damage with better aoe on little CD.

    This is nuts! And on top of that, it's one of the most mobile classes in the game, maybe even the one with the best mobility and gets invulnerability and invisibility on top of that, as well as blocks, target breaking, evades....

    Less and less builds use sword.
    Apart necro, other meta builds are as mobile as mesmer, even more for certains. (get out of an aoe with a 450 jaunt != run in another point in few seconds. And portal and blink are certainly powerful but when you compare with perma swiftness class (which concretly mean that you can't melee thoses specs because they run away from melee range just by running.), who have gap closer or target teleport, the best mobility is questionable.)

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Toron.4856 said:

    @ZeroTheCat.2684 said:
    lol what??? How are you complaining about mesmers when there are much more broken classes out there. Look at the Holo kitten! Or the warrior. Every game now 2 holos. and the team without loses. Nice balance Anet. gg.

    When u think war and holo r more busted than mirage ur obv a woodtier player that has a l2p issue.

    Holo and war both can be outplayed and have weaknesses. Mirage doesn't.

    It has one weakness:
    A better mirage player in enemy team xD

    Its really funny. Scourge isn't allowed to do 3 conditions with F1.
    1 burning, 1torment, 1 cripple
    Now we can add 1 vulnerability and 1corrupted boon.

    But mesmer is allowed to do like: 10stacks burning, 10 stacks confusion, 10 stacks torment and bleed and blind and like all the conditions available in an instant.

    So that if you move, you die to torment, if you try to condicleanses you take insane amounts of confusion damage and have to hope, that confusion get actually cleansed, else it will hurt even more.

    This is nuts! And on top of that, it's one of the most mobile classes in the game, maybe even the one with the best mobility and gets invulnerability and invisibility on top of that, as well as blocks, target breaking, evades....

    lmao

    Overpowered.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    If you bother to read the tool tip you will notice that confusion does half the damage to players.

  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    Ok, now imagine someone casting 3 skills getting 5k damage each, adding 2k burn pulses and 1~2k torment.

  • I can only imagine them using 1 cleanse skill to remove everything, take no damage and mesmer left w/o any offensive CDs xD

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    It's like people who aren't mesmers make it sound like they are helpless NPCs who have only auto attack 1 skill. LIKE ERMAGERD MESMER PUT 20K TICK DMG ON ME I CANT DO ANYTHING WAHHH.

    use your cleanse...heal...dodge it....block it....blind us...CC us...blink/shadowstep away...go invul...use a shout...burst us.....don't just stand there lmao...

    If you are eating 3 skills, each doing 5k damage and the corresponding Condi pulses, you are bad.

    @breno.5423 said:
    Ok, now imagine someone casting 3 skills getting 5k damage each, adding 2k burn pulses and 1~2k torment.

    Overpowered.

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    If you bother to read the tool tip you will notice that confusion does half the damage to players.

    NO THATS RIDICULOUS TOOL TIPS DONT APPLY TO MESMERS< THEY DO 10K DAMAGE EVERY HIT NO MATTER WHAT NERF THEM ANET MESMER TAKES NO SKILL ANET FAVORS MESMER RIP CHIEF UTAHIEN YOU WILL BE MISSED.

    Overpowered.

  • @brappish.8715 said:

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    If you bother to read the tool tip you will notice that confusion does half the damage to players.

    NO THATS RIDICULOUS TOOL TIPS DONT APPLY TO MESMERS< THEY DO 10K DAMAGE EVERY HIT NO MATTER WHAT NERF THEM ANET MESMER TAKES NO SKILL ANET FAVORS MESMER RIP CHIEF UTAHIEN YOU WILL BE MISSED.

    I believe he killed more players than Mirage :trollface:

  • Silence.3702Silence.3702 Member ✭✭✭

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    It also has lot of ENDURANCE regen (perma dodge/immortality), but the worse is blind/CC spam (you wont receive damage if people can't touch you).

    Perma dodge perma immortality...omegalul ...cc spam... from where comes such exaggerations(just like rest of your post) . I have theory : lower skill(perception) = more exaggerations

    pls dont nerf my precious mirage cause skill is a nono!

    Cries in ele

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @breno.5423 said:
    10k damage on tick, trololo

    And is priority in cleanses. Requires heavy investment to achieve. And is a very squishy build with no condi cleanses.

    Not really. I play mes.

    Assuming it's an inspiration build because sword torch, which is also what I play. There is plenty of cleanse. Each juant removes 1 condition. Each f button removes conditions. Signet of midnight removes all condis. Signet of ilussion allows u to recharge all f skills and so u can remove again. There is literally 12 Condi removals. The f skills also do Condi dmg upon activation .that's just the minimum active removal.

    With traits every clone u make takes a condition. So u can just spam axe 2 which takes another 2. Signet of ilusion also randomly generates clones which take off condition. You basically cannot die to Condi.

    25k hp is not squishy at all. Esp not with 2 stealths, 2 distorts,2 dodges,4 teleports. Before you say jaunt range is low. Small range teleports is actually what u want. To port out of stuns. For example if a warrior dazes you and is about to use hundred blades. U can jaunt right out of it n use your next skill. Since daze is only 1 second. Another is to jaunt up spots so they can't hit u. Plenty in every map.

    It's literally is the most for giving build in the entire game. I am going to play the kitten out it untill they Nerf it.

    The Inspiration variant is meant for newer mesmers and is not played by at the higher raiting.

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭✭

    Can we just get a weekly pvp lesson "who to pvp" on all important points?

    Its kinda pointless, if the basic knowledge about a game mode is soo huge different. I speak about players pushing buttons without knowing if it helps to reach the goal and this on p3+ minimal 6 of 10 players each round. On p3-p2 its nearly 10 of 10.

    I tested some seasons if some players can dodge oneshot builds ( before hot rifle warrior, before pof with berserk rifle warrior and deadeye after). And its cruel: even if i play bersek warrior on actually seasons, most players at p3 not even try to dodge f1 (ok it's not more a oneshott), doesn't matter if 1v1 or other fights. And i choosed also to only hit if they can dodge or avoid it... Somehow on p2-1 they managed to dodge a core f1 rifle (without quickness). No wonder deadeye got nerfed on rifle 3 xD

    What i want to tell with that: even on fair* fights most players don't even learned that after getting the second time hurted badly to change the own playstile.

    • I managed to dont kitte or do other smart actions if i feel im too strong with that against any player...
  • jportell.2197jportell.2197 Member ✭✭✭

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    'member when game was all about having 4 cele elementalists and mesmer was useless outside being a portal slave and people were still complaining almost as much as Mirage nowadays about how OP mesmer was despite being unable to kill, resist or stall pretty much anything at equal-skill-levels? Balance team still 'members

    I member. But it wasnt just 4 cele eles. It was a cele engi, cele warr, a condi necro, a thief, and a cele ele. Mesmer was nowhere to be seen in the meta, and bunker guard has fallen out due to the sustain of everyone else.

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭✭

    Helseth was one of the first players that show what potential the mesmer has. Imo most players wouldn't now how important portal is without him.

    If we look at other pro players we will see the main problem: a small viewer base -> so most players don't learn from them and get frustrated by some matchups or fighting some classes

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jportell.2197 said:

    @plushiesoda.8150 said:
    'member when game was all about having 4 cele elementalists and mesmer was useless outside being a portal slave and people were still complaining almost as much as Mirage nowadays about how OP mesmer was despite being unable to kill, resist or stall pretty much anything at equal-skill-levels? Balance team still 'members

    I member. But it wasnt just 4 cele eles. It was a cele engi, cele warr, a condi necro, a thief, and a cele ele. Mesmer was nowhere to be seen in the meta, and bunker guard has fallen out due to the sustain of everyone else.

    Lies! Mesmer was always part of meta and the most op profession with no hard counters! Mesmer was and still is ANet's baby and favorite child that never gets nerfed and always gets buffed! /s

    The degenerate

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mesmer has been meta in every game mode since hot came out lmao. And for the heroes claiming just cleanse, no class has as much condi removal as mes has application. Mirage can cc/blind/invuln chain long enough to kill anyone 1v1, and when they run out of offensive CDs, can stealth disengage at will to try again in 5s.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2018

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Mesmer has been meta in every game mode since hot came out lmao.

    Nope, during HoT in PvP, it was only meta in teamQ because portal and SoH were usefull in coordinated team fight (to a lesser extent in duoQ) but most of HoT seasons it was more than under-represented in leaderboard because hard countered by many specs.

  • brappish.8715brappish.8715 Member ✭✭✭

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Mesmer has been meta in every game mode since hot came out lmao. And for the heroes claiming just cleanse, no class has as much condi removal as mes has application. Mirage can cc/blind/invuln chain long enough to kill anyone 1v1, and when they run out of offensive CDs, can stealth disengage at will to try again in 5s.

    • six-year-old boys voice*
      "And then, they can summon a nuclear warhead and it'll blow up everyone, and then they can go to Narnia and bring back more clones, and then they have super magic abilities that give them the force and then they can yell really loud like warriors and then they have big firey wings that come out of their back and they kill everyone in one shot and then they killed Thanos and then they killed my dad too and then I really like the flavor raspberry and my favorite color is purple, but the mesmer had a green one so I gave away the sword and now its yellow again and they wouldn't share anything with me so I'm sad"= how everyone sounds, ever that thinks mesmer is op.

    Overpowered.

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @brappish.8715 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    Mesmer has been meta in every game mode since hot came out lmao. And for the heroes claiming just cleanse, no class has as much condi removal as mes has application. Mirage can cc/blind/invuln chain long enough to kill anyone 1v1, and when they run out of offensive CDs, can stealth disengage at will to try again in 5s.

    • six-year-old boys voice*

    pic or it isn't true

  • plushiesoda.8150plushiesoda.8150 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭✭

    @ plushiesoda:
    Yes ranked with randoms is most times not that professional as full teams on tournaments.

    But it's not about the random mates, its more about the skillpool of that players -> if we got a basic knowledge/skill not that far of that of our top players it doesn't matter that much with what randoms you play.

    In other words this also means: to get your own out of rankloop, you need to be that well you allways know where to bring you impact at right time. Like take threats out. Its easyer this way as if you are at the same lvl as most randoms, cause your not that much pressured and get more chances. Btw nothing else happens on top lvl..

    As more you master the game mode as less randomness happens to you and less frustrated it gets. (But maybe it gets boring cause you don't have much challenge so you deside to go wvw cause fighting 6 bad payers is more challenging than fighting one bad player)

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why nerf mirage? You can just increase condi removal, make resisitance an effect instead of a boon, and lower the cooldowns on all condi removal skills across the board.; sigil of purging should remove like 8 conditions every 5 seconds.
    This way we are all happy. No nerfs for mirage, and people won't get melted so easily

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2018

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Why nerf mirage? You can just increase condi removal, make resisitance an effect instead of a boon, and lower the cooldowns on all condi removal skills across the board.; sigil of purging should remove like 8 conditions every 5 seconds.
    This way we are all happy. No nerfs for mirage, and people won't get melted so easily

    Buffing Sigil of Purging to even 2 condis removed per 10 secs would make it an auto include in EVERY build and kill any condi spec across the board. How is that healthy for the game? Think before you post. Mirage is one of 3 (is it 4?) classes that has no passive proc to save it. We rely on our active defense and twitch reaction time to survive Deadeyes, Core Guards, Boonbeasts, etc.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Why nerf mirage? You can just increase condi removal, make resisitance an effect instead of a boon, and lower the cooldowns on all condi removal skills across the board.; sigil of purging should remove like 8 conditions every 5 seconds.
    This way we are all happy. No nerfs for mirage, and people won't get melted so easily

    Buffing Sigil of Purging to even 2 condis removed per 10 secs would make it an auto include in EVERY build and kill any condi spec across the board. How is that healthy for the game? Think before you post. Mirage is one of 3 (is it 4?) classes that has no passive proc to save it. We rely on our active defense and twitch reaction time to survive Deadeyes, Core Guards, Boonbeasts, etc.

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Why nerf mirage? You can just increase condi removal, make resisitance an effect instead of a boon, and lower the cooldowns on all condi removal skills across the board.; sigil of purging should remove like 8 conditions every 5 seconds.
    This way we are all happy. No nerfs for mirage, and people won't get melted so easily

    Buffing Sigil of Purging to even 2 condis removed per 10 secs would make it an auto include in EVERY build and kill any condi spec across the board. How is that healthy for the game? Think before you post. Mirage is one of 3 (is it 4?) classes that has no passive proc to save it. We rely on our active defense and twitch reaction time to survive Deadeyes, Core Guards, Boonbeasts, etc.

    I didn't expect anyone to take this seriously lol 8 condies

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil