Less discuss the "Leaching tank builds" that some guilds are abusing in WvW. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Less discuss the "Leaching tank builds" that some guilds are abusing in WvW.

Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 9, 2019 in WvW

As you know, there are some guilds that abuse this mechanic in their favor and go extreme bunker.
This allows them to be extremely tanky and kill blobs without any skill or effort.

The builds consist of sharing buffs that allow party members to siphon life from enemies.
The siphoning carries them over without effort or any skill what so ever and the life siphoned keeps them alive without even using their healing skills.

Anet needs to remove or rework how life siphoning works to stop those guild abusing game mechanics.
They have realized that life siphon goes through damage mitigation skills and it has no restriction what so ever.
For example:

  • endure pain
  • Signet of Stone

These damage mitigation skills are completely useless against the life siphoning abusers.
The simplest solution will be to restrict life siphoning by not making it a share buff, and by only allowing the attacker to steal life.

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Comments

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is this the one about revenant?

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Is this the one about revenant?

    It involves every skill that shares life siphon with party members.
    Here is the lit of all the skills, traits, sigils and food that steal life
    Revenant and necro are the main offenders.

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Wouldnt this be more tactical use of skills or strategizing? Not mechanic abuse.

    No, they are using the life siphon mechanic to take advantage of fights and they are abusing it.
    They are very tanky and most of the damage they do is via life siphoning because it damages the enemy even if the enemy has damage mitigation and it heals their group.

    For example, take a look at Vampiric Presence, it share the buff vampiric aura
    Just a single skill that hits 5 players will siphon life from 5 people and that includes AUTO ATTACKS.

    Life siphoning is out of control and there are groups out there that are abusing this mechanic.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Is this the one about revenant?

    It involves every skill that shares life siphon with party members.
    Here is the lit of all the skills, traits, sigils and food that steal life
    Revenant and necro are the main offenders.

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Wouldnt this be more tactical use of skills or strategizing? Not mechanic abuse.

    No, they are using the life siphon mechanic to take advantage of fights and they are abusing it.
    They are very tanky and most of the damage they do is via life siphoning because it damages the enemy even if the enemy has damage mitigation and it heals their group.

    For example, take a look at Vampiric Presence, it share the buff vampiric aura
    Just a single skill that hits 5 players will siphon life from 5 people and that includes AUTO ATTACKS.

    Life siphoning is out of control and there are groups out there that are abusing this mechanic.

    All skills are not equal. Even 10 people hitting you with vampiric presence doesnt equal a single rev with the assasain heal. A warrior being eaten away with vampiric is easily healed by any dedicated healer. Hell you'd need 20 people to overcome their passive heal alone. At that point its not going to be the siphon that kills you.

    Also if mitigation means nothing, it just means they are countered by the same builds. And thats pretty much already meta zergs for you - thats why its meta.

  • miriforst.1290miriforst.1290 Member ✭✭✭

    Hey now what happened to "these skills are not actual invulnerabilities!"?

    Last time i heard that was the justification for removing elixir proc but not other life saving traits, which let you attack back and stuff.

    Funny thing, in gw1 life steals for the longest of times ignored damage reduction skills like protective spirit. Old touch ranger anyone?

    -Purity of Purpose-
    P.S. You know, expert examination has worked this way since HOT release. You just updated the description.

    Also super speed does not stack, it overwrites. 5s + 1s=1s.

  • juno.1840juno.1840 Member ✭✭✭

    @miriforst.1290 said:
    Hey now what happened to "these skills are not actual invulnerabilities!"?

    Last time i heard that was the justification for removing elixir proc but not other life saving traits, which let you attack back and stuff.

    Funny thing, in gw1 life steals for the longest of times ignored damage reduction skills like protective spirit. Old touch ranger anyone?

    R/N was fun -- actually a lot of combinations were fun in GW1. I miss that game.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necros run bloodmagic now? No, they dont.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SloRules.3560 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @Rampage.7145 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    As you know, there are some guilds that abuse this mechanic in their favor and go extreme bunker.
    This allows them to be extremely tanky and kill blobs without any skill or effort.

    The builds consist of sharing buffs that allow party members to siphon life from enemies.
    The siphoning carries them over without effort or any skill what so ever and the life siphoned keeps them alive without even using their healing skills.

    Anet needs to remove or rework how life siphoning works to stop those guild abusing game mechanics.
    They have realized that life siphon goes through damage mitigation skills and it has no restriction what so ever.
    For example:

    • endure pain
    • Signet of Stone

    These damage mitigation skills are completely useless against the life siphoning abusers.
    The simplest solution will be to restrict life siphoning by not making it a share buff, and by only allowing the attacker to steal life.

    Yo which guild was that? they sound like they are pretty good

    Na, they are a bunch of noobs running healing builds and spamming skills. I shall not name them or this post will get infracted!

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Is this the one about revenant?

    It involves every skill that shares life siphon with party members.
    Here is the lit of all the skills, traits, sigils and food that steal life
    Revenant and necro are the main offenders.

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Wouldnt this be more tactical use of skills or strategizing? Not mechanic abuse.

    No, they are using the life siphon mechanic to take advantage of fights and they are abusing it.
    They are very tanky and most of the damage they do is via life siphoning because it damages the enemy even if the enemy has damage mitigation and it heals their group.

    For example, take a look at Vampiric Presence, it share the buff vampiric aura
    Just a single skill that hits 5 players will siphon life from 5 people and that includes AUTO ATTACKS.

    Life siphoning is out of control and there are groups out there that are abusing this mechanic.

    All skills are not equal. Even 10 people hitting you with vampiric presence doesnt equal a single rev with the assasain heal. A warrior being eaten away with vampiric is easily healed by any dedicated healer. Hell you'd need 20 people to overcome their passive heal alone. At that point its not going to be the siphon that kills you.

    Also if mitigation means nothing, it just means they are countered by the same builds. And thats pretty much already meta zergs for you - thats why its meta.

    You are not taking into account that with each attack that hits 5 targets the enemy is life stealing from 5 enemies with just a single attack.
    When you combine that with skill spamming, you get a ton of life stealing and sustain.

    The guilds who are doing this know well the mechanic and how to abuse it combined with revenants life siphon share.

    @SloRules.3560 said:
    What? Are you kitten? Seriously, how can you think lifesteal is op in this game?

    In a 1 vs 1 life siphon is not OP, but it becomes broken when you gather a blob all stealing life even when you have your damage mitigation skills active.

    It's by no means op. It doesn't go though block, doesn't go through, evade, doesn't go through invun. Protection? ok, but who cares it's like 200 if you have both vampiric presence and facet of nature... And even less healing than that. Are you mad? It's nice on necromancers, beacuse of how many hits they have, but you know what, apart from rev leaching they always had vampiric effects.... Seriously dude, think before you say something.

    Na, perhaps you are a member of such guilds that run these builds and that is why you are attempting to make it look like it does not mater.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    The amount of extra healing from something like vampiric aura is negligible. The best group siphon is probably kalla elite but then they're running kalla renegades and that's a big investment since the rest of that legends kit is terrible. Life steal has always bypassed ep though this is nothing new.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:
    The amount of extra healing from something like vampiric aura is negligible. The best group siphon is probably kalla elite but then they're running kalla renegades and that's a big investment since the rest of that legends kit is terrible. Life steal has always bypassed ep though this is nothing new.

    Na you guys have no idea what you are talking about or maybe you are members of such guilds and are trying to cover it up and make it look like it is nothing to worry about.

    Life siphoning works like a diffusion membrane, but in this case the process is controlled and exploited in favor of the exploiters.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While I agree this certainly reads as a warrior crying about his endure and defy pain getting sliced through by lifesteal, I am surprised this hasn't happened sooner. I myself have considered lifestealing builds to augment myself and other players with leeching venoms 100 years ago, vampire healing signet for target focus and more recently kalla elite. Never did take them anywhere though as you do more damage as a whole by playing a normal ranged glass cannon.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Optimator.3589Optimator.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    I've watched footage of one or two of these guilds running "leech tank" comps, and if your similarly-sized coordinated group is losing to them, you have bigger problems than leech.

    REDUCE NA TO 3 TIERS

  • wait, life stealing ain't meme anymore?

  • How can you abuse by using the game the way it was designed?

    Perhaps ask for changes but accusing people of abuse is a little overboard I think.

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Forz.1725Forz.1725 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    Na, they are a bunch of noobs running healing builds and spamming skills.

    Huh...uhhh...yeah.

    So, using skills...please just hear me out before saying "I'm just one of them".

    You know you have that option too, right? You can even bind them to your keyboard. Your mileage may vary, but I have a feeling if you use them you might have a chance versus these siphoning builds.

  • @Hitman.5829 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    The amount of extra healing from something like vampiric aura is negligible. The best group siphon is probably kalla elite but then they're running kalla renegades and that's a big investment since the rest of that legends kit is terrible. Life steal has always bypassed ep though this is nothing new.

    Na you guys have no idea what you are talking about or maybe you are members of such guilds and are trying to cover it up and make it look like it is nothing to worry about.

    Life siphoning works like a diffusion membrane, but in this case the process is controlled and exploited in favor of the exploiters.

    If it’s truly an exploit/buggy thing as you suggest then open a bug report instead of coming in here and facing all this opposition. Not to mention giving me ideas...

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Lorx.8507Lorx.8507 Member ✭✭

    @Rampage.7145 said:

    Yo which guild was that? they sound like they are pretty good

    VRoooommmm right through an enemy raid they go.

  • Nearly all life steal traits, skills, consumables, and upgrades have an internal cool down. They didn't use to, and we certainly did abuse 100% crit chance builds back then to stack life stealing on crit sigils and foods with traits. These days it's just a meme, it's hard countered by a Warriors Healing Signet or an Ele's passive heal via Soothing Mist. H*ck, in large groups a Memestrel Tempest can press 1 in water and out sustain a life steal heavy comp also pressing 1. There's so much healing available thanks to Anet making them mandatory specs that the only way someone would win in this scenario was if you never used a healing skill to counter it.

    Of course it won't be easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:

    @Hitman.5829 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    The amount of extra healing from something like vampiric aura is negligible. The best group siphon is probably kalla elite but then they're running kalla renegades and that's a big investment since the rest of that legends kit is terrible. Life steal has always bypassed ep though this is nothing new.

    Na you guys have no idea what you are talking about or maybe you are members of such guilds and are trying to cover it up and make it look like it is nothing to worry about.

    Life siphoning works like a diffusion membrane, but in this case the process is controlled and exploited in favor of the exploiters.

    If it’s truly an exploit/buggy thing as you suggest then open a bug report instead of coming in here and facing all this opposition. Not to mention giving me ideas...

    Unfortunately, Anet will not do anything if people do not abuse it en masse. So please go ahead and spread the word PLEASE!
    We need everyone to start using this ridiculous OP broken builds of life diffusion.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    How can you abuse by using the game the way it was designed?

    If a mechanic is poorly designed and is over performing, then the players make it a focal point of their gaming experience, it is abuse.
    It's why Deathly Chill got nerfed. While the trait was fine under normal circumstances, people were abusing the trait's ability to proc from any source of chill by stacking every source of chill into their build.

    If a bunker group stacked every ounce of life steal, short of compromising reasonable gameplay, it could be problematic. Lifesteal is not designed to be a main damage source nor a main healing source. It is infact clearly designed and tightly balanced as a supplement with it's super low coefficients.

    Just a vid I made a couple years back regarding the Deathly Chill Reaper plague in WvW,

    Yeah people didn't really have any idea to what I was referring to. Made a thread about how badly necromancer's were messing up balance in WvW and pretty much nobody believed me. I said if the trait wasn't nerfed the necro participation ratio would go over 50%. It wasn't until after PoF release that they nerfed it in WvW and the remaining reapers all rolled scourge lol...gg

    Lifestealing should be something closely monitored moving forward if we start seeing bunker lifestealing groups.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah please everyone start running kalla renegades lol

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Is this the first time this siphon mechanic (which has been here forever) is being whined about? This is a non-issue lol

    What are you talking about? I have complained about OP build forever!
    It looks like I am the only one who knows GW2 to perfection or perhaps we have a few who do not want their Guild builds to be nerfed.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • This is the first I've heard about someone complaining of life stealing; however, I know exactly the setup the OP is talking about. The build(s) in and themselves aren't the issue, it's the amount of damage being dealt causing the healing numbers that are the issue. As we know, many people are irritated with the amount of damage being dealt in WvW at the moment. It's not classes that run zerker/marauders or any combination of zerk type builds that are the problem, if you look at them the wrong way they die. It's the tanky builds doing far more damage than they should that are the problem. This is both power and condition builds. Many agree that condition damage shouldn't exist on toughness/vitality gear which would eliminate dire and trailblazers. Power should also not exist on any gear with toughness or vitality on it. Those who choose to run tanky, should be doing very little damage (like crits no more than 100), and thus if they're trying to life siphon, will be getting numbers so low, it will be of no use.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    How can you abuse by using the game the way it was designed?

    If a mechanic is poorly designed and is over performing, then the players make it a focal point of their gaming experience, it is abuse.
    It's why Deathly Chill got nerfed. While the trait was fine under normal circumstances, people were abusing the trait's ability to proc from any source of chill by stacking every source of chill into their build.

    If a bunker group stacked every ounce of life steal, short of compromising reasonable gameplay, it could be problematic. Lifesteal is not designed to be a main damage source nor a main healing source. It is infact clearly designed and tightly balanced as a supplement with it's super low coefficients.

    Just a vid I made a couple years back regarding the Deathly Chill Reaper plague in WvW,

    Yeah people didn't really have any idea to what I was referring to. Made a thread about how badly necromancer's were messing up balance in WvW and pretty much nobody believed me. I said if the trait wasn't nerfed the necro participation ratio would go over 50%. It wasn't until after PoF release that they nerfed it in WvW and the remaining reapers all rolled scourge lol...gg

    Lifestealing should be something closely monitored moving forward if we start seeing bunker lifestealing groups.

    Not trying to be negative here, or confrontational, but I want to address a few things...

    There are many aspects of professions that can be considered “broken”, but one of the top culprits is the low ttk. Yes, there are definitely some other areas that need attention, but power creep vs health is a really big one for this game.

    Your video clearly shows you downing a necro, and ultimately losing due to being outnumbered. Had you not been outnumbered you would have obviously won.

    I remember an old video you posted of highlighting the high damage of Revenant, a class that can be very effective from range. We can contrast that with Necro, who doesn’t have the same damage output from those ranges, and we all know that. The Revenant also has far better access to engage and disengage skills. Range and mobility are the 2 main weak points of Necro.

    Edit to add video-

    I’ll have to travel way back in time to find the dev quote that states “Revenant was built with a weakness to conditions intentionally”, and it wasn’t until not too long ago (pof maybe? Gotta check) that Revenant gained better condition management with Resistance. Even with Resistance there is still a lot to be desired...

    There are issues with how the condition system was designed, and it’s not limited to Necro. I feel the devs made a mistake by not going with a more traditional DoT design where gear and stats were also a mitigating factor in the equation... However, I’d argue that Necro, in its current state, needs certain tools like Condi output to compete.

    I’m sure some of us would rather see redos of professions and some combat designs, because these same issues keep circling around and around without really being addressed.

    Edit 2- I want to add in that the devs wanted reaper to be a power spec so that’s why certain changes were made to move it away from doing condi damage.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    This is the first I've heard about someone complaining of life stealing; however, I know exactly the setup the OP is talking about. The build(s) in and themselves aren't the issue, it's the amount of damage being dealt causing the healing numbers that are the issue. As we know, many people are irritated with the amount of damage being dealt in WvW at the moment. It's not classes that run zerker/marauders or any combination of zerk type builds that are the problem, if you look at them the wrong way they die. It's the tanky builds doing far more damage than they should that are the problem. This is both power and condition builds. Many agree that condition damage shouldn't exist on toughness/vitality gear which would eliminate dire and trailblazers. Power should also not exist on any gear with toughness or vitality on it. Those who choose to run tanky, should be doing very little damage (like crits no more than 100), and thus if they're trying to life siphon, will be getting numbers so low, it will be of no use.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    How can you abuse by using the game the way it was designed?

    If a mechanic is poorly designed and is over performing, then the players make it a focal point of their gaming experience, it is abuse.
    It's why Deathly Chill got nerfed. While the trait was fine under normal circumstances, people were abusing the trait's ability to proc from any source of chill by stacking every source of chill into their build.

    If a bunker group stacked every ounce of life steal, short of compromising reasonable gameplay, it could be problematic. Lifesteal is not designed to be a main damage source nor a main healing source. It is infact clearly designed and tightly balanced as a supplement with it's super low coefficients.

    Just a vid I made a couple years back regarding the Deathly Chill Reaper plague in WvW,

    Yeah people didn't really have any idea to what I was referring to. Made a thread about how badly necromancer's were messing up balance in WvW and pretty much nobody believed me. I said if the trait wasn't nerfed the necro participation ratio would go over 50%. It wasn't until after PoF release that they nerfed it in WvW and the remaining reapers all rolled scourge lol...gg

    Lifestealing should be something closely monitored moving forward if we start seeing bunker lifestealing groups.

    About the video...

    I don't see how this shows anything wrong with deathly chill (the trait was stupid tho) all it shows is some Rev playing pretty poorly and downing some reaper then getting ganged up on by some other reapers and dying, there isn't even any exciting amounts of bleeds in it, the highest I see is 4 and most of it is even fighting a power reaper??

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • There is a Renegade build that's capable of going from 5% to 100% health in less than a second with Siphons. I don't know all the details that make it work but since the fellow that showed me was the sweetest person, I also don't intend to share. Not only that, but I know the way certain aspects of the build interact are probably unintended, which could warrant a nerf if ANet were to find out. As OP as it might be, it's still a non-issue. I'm not certain how it might perform in a large scale scenario but I have seen it in a 1v1 and all it amounts to is giving up stronger options (Herald) for a strong gimmick. In fact, there is a similar, but more exploitative thing you can do with Necromancer that allows you to get core Shroud on Reaper or Scourge. This one I would consider to be more worthy of a patch since unlike the Renegade build, it can make the Necro near unkillable.

    But I digress, those that are saying Siphons are kitten are correct but I also think many of the people here haven't seen what OP is talking about. In fact, I'm not even sure OP is talking about the same thing I am but, I could be wrong. As of now I've never seen this supposed super tank Siphoning zerg, only a solo player who likes to meme. And the OP has historically been a very low tier troll so, I'd say just ignore him :P.

    [CAT] [Blep] [HUNT] | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
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  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    So what is this comp?
    Kalla Renegade, Shiro Herald, Blood Scourge as the siphoning trio? And I am assuming that beyond that and supports, builds that have rapid packets of ranged (non-projectile) damage?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    There is a Renegade build that's capable of going from 5% to 100% health in less than a second with Siphons. I don't know all the details that make it work but since the fellow that showed me was the sweetest person, I also don't intend to share. Not only that, but I know the way certain aspects of the build interact are probably unintended, which could warrant a nerf if ANet were to find out. As OP as it might be, it's still a non-issue. I'm not certain how it might perform in a large scale scenario but I have seen it in a 1v1 and all it amounts to is giving up stronger options (Herald) for a strong gimmick. In fact, there is a similar, but more exploitative thing you can do with Necromancer that allows you to get core Shroud on Reaper or Scourge. This one I would consider to be more worthy of a patch since unlike the Renegade build, it can make the Necro near unkillable.

    But I digress, those that are saying Siphons are kitten are correct but I also think many of the people here haven't seen what OP is talking about. In fact, I'm not even sure OP is talking about the same thing I am but, I could be wrong. As of now I've never seen this supposed super tank Siphoning zerg, only a solo player who likes to meme. And the OP has historically been a very low tier troll so, I'd say just ignore him :P.

    And how often can they do that? How long can they keep that up? Because if its even close to a regular rev... we just down them again.

    GW2 builds isnt a secret. If it exists and its effective, it would be in the open and used by alot of people. Now, how many renegades do you see in WvW...

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @""Swagger.1459"
    @""lodjur.1284"

    You two are exactly the type of people I am referring to.
    I engage in a 1v1 with a reaper and am +3 by reapers. I tab through 4 reapers. That was my concern at the time that WvW was getting over run by reapers. And yet all people could do was call me bad and say I was crying for dying outnumbered. Zoooooom right over their heads. Too many people were rolling trailblazer/viper reapers because of deathly chill leading to an easy to play build that was overly effective.

    To most people lifesteal means little because they probably cannot even tell if it's being used compared to normal damage and normal sustain. The first people to notice it are going to be warriors though if they are getting their hp stripped through ed/df. All I am saying is do not be so dismissive of a warrior complaining about groups stacking lifesteal because there is a possibility it's true. Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it's not true.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @""Swagger.1459"
    @""lodjur.1284"

    You two are exactly the type of people I am referring to.
    I engage in a 1v1 with a reaper and am +3 by reapers. I tab through 4 reapers. That was my concern at the time that WvW was getting over run by reapers. And yet all people could do was call me bad and say I was crying for dying outnumbered. Zoooooom right over their heads. Too many people were rolling trailblazer/viper reapers because of deathly chill leading to an easy to play build that was overly effective.

    To most people lifesteal means little because they probably cannot even tell if it's being used compared to normal damage and normal sustain. The first people to notice it are going to be warriors though if they are getting their hp stripped through ed/df. All I am saying is do not be so dismissive of a warrior complaining about groups stacking lifesteal because there is a possibility it's true. Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it's not true.

    But 1 encounter is proof of nothing. I fought 4 Eles at the same time last week, by your logic wvw it's overrun by Eles...

    Also you do literally make a video about it winning about deathly chill after losing 65% of your hp to a power reaper not running the trait only to get your last 35% bursted by 2 reapers 1 without path of corruption (so definitively power) and 1 with axe and spiteful Spirit (so also power).

    So you die to 3 power reapers and make a video where you whine and call condi reaper op...

    To me this just screams clueless

    Uh what? Just because they deal power damage doesn't mean they are not deathly chill + viper... Like as I was dropping I clearly had all boons stripped and 7 different conditions on me in the blink of an eye. And yes deathly chill reapers were using axe, cause you know the whole pbaoe boon corruption on skill 3 and all...and yes deathly chill reapers were known to skip out on corruption line in favor of soul reaping cause you know, unblockable marks. We really wont ever know what exact builds they were using but realize that at that time power reapers were not super buffed, they just were not a thing in wvw unless it was viper gear and even those were rare. It wasn't until after PoF released that Deathly Chill was nerfed while the power damage on reaper stuff started to get super buffed.

    You must not have been playing WvW in 2017 if you don't think over representation of reapers was a problem.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @""Swagger.1459"
    @""lodjur.1284"

    You two are exactly the type of people I am referring to.
    I engage in a 1v1 with a reaper and am +3 by reapers. I tab through 4 reapers. That was my concern at the time that WvW was getting over run by reapers. And yet all people could do was call me bad and say I was crying for dying outnumbered. Zoooooom right over their heads. Too many people were rolling trailblazer/viper reapers because of deathly chill leading to an easy to play build that was overly effective.

    To most people lifesteal means little because they probably cannot even tell if it's being used compared to normal damage and normal sustain. The first people to notice it are going to be warriors though if they are getting their hp stripped through ed/df. All I am saying is do not be so dismissive of a warrior complaining about groups stacking lifesteal because there is a possibility it's true. Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it's not true.

    But 1 encounter is proof of nothing. I fought 4 Eles at the same time last week, by your logic wvw it's overrun by Eles...

    Also you do literally make a video about it winning about deathly chill after losing 65% of your hp to a power reaper not running the trait only to get your last 35% bursted by 2 reapers 1 without path of corruption (so definitively power) and 1 with axe and spiteful Spirit (so also power).

    So you die to 3 power reapers and make a video where you whine and call condi reaper op...

    To me this just screams clueless

    Uh what? Just because they deal power damage doesn't mean they are not deathly chill + viper... Like as I was dropping I clearly had all boons stripped and 7 different conditions on me in the blink of an eye. And yes deathly chill reapers were using axe, cause you know the whole pbaoe boon corruption on skill 3 and all...and yes deathly chill reapers were known to skip out on corruption line in favor of soul reaping cause you know, unblockable marks. We really wont ever know what exact builds they were using but realize that at that time power reapers were not super buffed, they just were not a thing in wvw unless it was viper gear and even those were rare. It wasn't until after PoF released that Deathly Chill was nerfed while the power damage on reaper stuff started to get super buffed.

    You must not have been playing WvW in 2017 if you don't think over representation of reapers was a problem.

    "7 different conditions on me in the blink of an eye" You got hit with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spite

    You can complain about Necro being Condi heavy, just like Necro can complain about Revenant being power heavy... You can complain about the old Deathly Chill all you want, and Necros can complain about your super heavy hitting hammer skills from 1,200 range... that Revenant still has... Goes both ways.

    Revenant currently has the equivalent of the old Reaper Deathly Chill build... look... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Torment. And most Necros went condi builds because their power builds kinda sucked, mobility still sucks and are extremely vulnerable to ranged damage builds...

    You video shows nothing except you were outnumbered. Revenant sucked worse at condition management by design back then, and that's not the fault of Necro design, that's the fault of Revenant design. Had your main/most played class been one with better Condition removal you wouldn't be complaining. But you main a Revenant that sucks vs Conditions.

    You can't talk about " I saw lots of X professions so that indicates a problem", because there are lots of X professions around.

    Edit- You need to be more objective

    You- "Deathly Chill OP"...

    Community- "Yeah? How about this? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin 1.200 range, 4s cooldown that can hit 5 targets for burst in the high teens... every 4 seconds "

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @""Swagger.1459"
    @""lodjur.1284"

    You two are exactly the type of people I am referring to.
    I engage in a 1v1 with a reaper and am +3 by reapers. I tab through 4 reapers. That was my concern at the time that WvW was getting over run by reapers. And yet all people could do was call me bad and say I was crying for dying outnumbered. Zoooooom right over their heads. Too many people were rolling trailblazer/viper reapers because of deathly chill leading to an easy to play build that was overly effective.

    To most people lifesteal means little because they probably cannot even tell if it's being used compared to normal damage and normal sustain. The first people to notice it are going to be warriors though if they are getting their hp stripped through ed/df. All I am saying is do not be so dismissive of a warrior complaining about groups stacking lifesteal because there is a possibility it's true. Just because you haven't figured it out doesn't mean it's not true.

    But 1 encounter is proof of nothing. I fought 4 Eles at the same time last week, by your logic wvw it's overrun by Eles...

    Also you do literally make a video about it winning about deathly chill after losing 65% of your hp to a power reaper not running the trait only to get your last 35% bursted by 2 reapers 1 without path of corruption (so definitively power) and 1 with axe and spiteful Spirit (so also power).

    So you die to 3 power reapers and make a video where you whine and call condi reaper op...

    To me this just screams clueless

    Uh what? Just because they deal power damage doesn't mean they are not deathly chill + viper... Like as I was dropping I clearly had all boons stripped and 7 different conditions on me in the blink of an eye. And yes deathly chill reapers were using axe, cause you know the whole pbaoe boon corruption on skill 3 and all...and yes deathly chill reapers were known to skip out on corruption line in favor of soul reaping cause you know, unblockable marks. We really wont ever know what exact builds they were using but realize that at that time power reapers were not super buffed, they just were not a thing in wvw unless it was viper gear and even those were rare. It wasn't until after PoF released that Deathly Chill was nerfed while the power damage on reaper stuff started to get super buffed.

    You must not have been playing WvW in 2017 if you don't think over representation of reapers was a problem.

    Let's see here first one is only power damage, you even facetank a chilled to the bone and get no bleeding.

    The only condis you actually get is from a boon corrupt (spiteful), yet you die basically instantly from the power damage of the skill, making it unlikely that any of them was even condi. You take 95%+ power damage and your conclusion is CONDI OP PLZ NURF.

    Power reaper also corrupts boons.......

    Soul Reaping+Curses was the Meta for condi reaper outside of zergs. Axe and/or spite definitively wasn't (outside of signet builds, which ran curses+spite).

    Spite line+axe was a joke outside of zerging and questionable in zerging too.

    Oh I played during 2017 and reapers weren't that common in smallscale, zerging sure but that's always been the case. Reaper was garbage tier for solo/duo play.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    We called this a siphon bomb and I think a lot of people had trouble wrapping thier brains around using multihit skills inside of the Kalla elite for some reason. The support Scourges were just there but pretty much anything + lots of corrupts in the same spot could evaporate pretty much anything. Same amount of skill in coordinated groups that you wouldn't normally find in pug groups. It was for melee ball oriented comps, which kind of didn't fit the pirate ship stuff currently in NA. Not that OP but haven't seen it successfully pulled off tbh.

  • @Hitman.5829 said:
    What are you talking about? I have complained about OP build forever!
    It looks like I am the only one who knows GW2 to perfection or perhaps we have a few who do not want their Guild builds to be nerfed.

    Okay here my little warrior friend. You know nothing about the game at all, because you've been always playing on easy class that carry it's user into oblivion. Life Siphon is nowhere near as strong as you're trying to make it, even in a groups. You're either trying to solo group of 10+ people or just rush inside enemy blob and get killed instantly. Here, I'm gonna use "yours" favourite countrerargument: "Endure Pain is not true Invulnerability, since you still can get condi bombed and cc'ed, unlike Mist Form or Elixir S".
    IMO things that need nerfs are:
    Overall: Condition & boon application(aswell duration), amount of hard/soft cc's, passive heal and sustain, damage, auto-proc traits(some were nerfed already but that's far from being "enough"), amount of possible iframes on certain classes, food that have %reduction(condi and physical) need to be removed aswell food that increases evasion by x% etc. etc...
    Firebrand: Access to 3 additional "utility" bars shouldn't happen ever, they should just have access to one of three possible "books" (f1-f3 skills, since they can reset them via traits or skills), amount of boons they spam should be atleast halved.
    Dragonhunter: reduce damage on traps and that's pretty much it?
    Guardian: pretty much balanced.
    Scourge: rework how shades work(make them work only around it's user and range + melee only via traits), increase cd on shade skills, remove torment from punishment skills, fix torch 5 that hits "deep" AC's(or was it fixed already?).
    Reaper: reduce damage in reaper shroud on few skills, reduce amount of chill(or its duration), maybe even buff speed of gs skills via traits...
    Necromancer: it need some buffs here and there to be even viable.
    Deadeye: reduce amount of access to stealth on that e-spec(make it more mobile than core, but not heavily stealth dependant), reduce damage potential and that's pretty much it?
    Daredevil: reduce damage on staff(especially vault, pick damage or evade, not both) and that's pretty much it?
    Thief: reduce amount of possible disengages from battle.
    Spellbreaker: barely acceptable(as a spec on it's own).
    Berserker: reduce damage or range/area of primal burst skills.
    Warrior: pretty much everything need nerfs on this class since like forever: damage, mobility, sustain, traits.
    And the list can go on... I didn't mention other classes not because they're "fine" or "balanced", I didn't mention them because I'm simply lazy(Mesmer(mirage) nerfs to pretty much everything, Engi(yolosmith) access to boons and damage, Ranger(overall) damage, access to boons and unblockables, Revenant(overall) damage, rework animation of hammer skills, Elementalist(weaver) access to evasive skills(it's just some bad copy of thief...)).
    As I wrote, it's my opinion, you can agree or not, but HoT(and PoF) certainly has damaged game, balance-wise atleast.
    Aaand back to the topic, I've never seen since 2012 even once a build that was fully based on any kind of "Life-steal", because it's simply not powerful(even in zergs).

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    There is a Renegade build that's capable of going from 5% to 100% health in less than a second with Siphons. I don't know all the details that make it work but since the fellow that showed me was the sweetest person, I also don't intend to share. Not only that, but I know the way certain aspects of the build interact are probably unintended, which could warrant a nerf if ANet were to find out.

    Maybe, maybe not. I run a life-steal Renegade that can do that, but only in specific situations. The problem is those circumstances rarely occur against real players, and it's sacrificing a lot of things you should normally be using if you need to kill more than NPCs.

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