Im curious why no ranged specs in this game?

Some people prefer ranged classes and when you thinking of iconic caster classes like magi and necromancers you think of them also being ranged casters. Im just curious why there are no specs that take advantage of range, we have ranged weapons, but the only spec that gets good damage from them is deadeye. I would love to be a caster and not have to sit in melee to fight, i mean the melee dog pile gets old after awhile you cant see jack anyway. I think variety is a nice option and would like to see ranged damage that viable. Swinging the same melee weapons gets old, i would like to be able to use more of my arsenal.

There are good ranged options for every class in the game. I think the only bad ranged class is Warrior. Do you have a specific class you want to try a ranged build for?

To be fair, you won't get much build variety if you want the best build and add extra conditions like 'ranged' to them. That's probably why you see Deadeye being THE good ranged thief build. That's simply the result of how the game is designed; it's true for all classes. If you want the necro DPS melee spec, you got one choice. If you want the Guardian Support melee build, you get one choice.

Deadeye says "hi".

There is plenty of ranged specs, the thing is, for them to perform best, you usually have to be in melee range anyway, even if using ranged weapons (See: Deadeye/Soulbeast/Ele, etc).This is because of how much DPS you gain from buffs such as Quickness/Alacrity/Might/Fury and that's not counting class utilities like Banners, Spotter, Spirits, Empowerment, etc.

Classes are not melee or ranged in GW2 - builds are. Which is how it should be. Warrior is basically the only class that isn't great at range, and even they have some ranged utility options.

I run long bow with my soulbeast ranger for ranged attacks and sword/axe for melee attacks. It's effective for my play style.

I think you may have different definitions of the word "ranged" than I... or are blinded by the "elite" in "elite specializations".

Simply put: there's no need to have an "elite" specializing in "ranged" because the core class already has that.

Also, DragonHunter, Scrapper, Scourge, Chronomancer, Renegade, and Tempest all say "hi".

For better or for worse, the game is designed around buffs which make a massive difference in group play. In turn, buffs are designed for use within relatively short range. This is so for two reasons: requiring positioning near allies to gain buffs requires more active play than gaining those buffs at longer ranges; and the game's PvP was designed around small capture points.

While it might be nice to have ranged options which gained full benefits in group play, that ship sailed a long time ago.

If you are talking about PvE endgame, the problem is how the skills supplying boons work (and boon duration caps themselves). Pretty much everything in GW2 is a small AoE, so the most effective strategy is to always have all players stacked on one spot, as tightly as possible.Since most builds/rotations involve a mix of melee and ranged weapons and skills, the only place to viably stack is right on, or behind, the boss.

Unfortunately, even if your entire kit were to be ranged, and you enjoy the fantasy of staying at and casting from range, it's not viable to do so in that type of content, unless they ever add specs that either have massive AoE's on their buffs, or supply minute long boons, ignoring boon caps, to prebuff ranged casters.Both of which doesn't really work with the rest of the design, and would outclass everything in the game now.

So we are kind of stuck with hugging the butts of bosses, regardless of personal range.

Ahh i see its because we are locked into short distance buffs instead of buffs placed directly on you for a duration like an hour. Well thats too bad i cant see anything in the dog pile like boss effects and abilities being that close in my camera view gets limited. I should also add with all the spells going off i couldnt see anything anyway, which is why i prefer ranged. But longbow ranger is a sad piece of work, i would have thought rangers were like snipers and hunters able to do good damage over distance. Too bad my favorite game archtype is the sniper/ranger/hunter type

@Tiviana.2650 said:Well thats too bad i cant see anything in the dog pile like boss effects and abilities being that close in my camera view gets limited. I should also add with all the spells going off i couldnt see anything anyway, which is why i prefer ranged.

One thing that may help with that may be turning off Post-Processing and enabling Effect-LOD, as well as playing with a more zoomed out camera at higher FoV, as well as adjusting the camera in the options to be further from the ground.

@"Tiviana.2650" said:Some people prefer ranged classes and when you thinking of iconic caster classes like magi and necromancers you think of them also being ranged casters. Im just curious why there are no specs that take advantage of range, we have ranged weapons, but the only spec that gets good damage from them is deadeye. I would love to be a caster and not have to sit in melee to fight, i mean the melee dog pile gets old after awhile you cant see jack anyway. I think variety is a nice option and would like to see ranged damage that viable. Swinging the same melee weapons gets old, i would like to be able to use more of my arsenal.

All professions have access to ranged weapons, and can do decent damage when built for it. Some better than others by design, but all are capable at range.

Your post indicates that you are a newer player so you should ask for build help in the profession sections. Look up http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki for community meta builds to get ideas. Get familiar with http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ to check out different builds before you make them.

GL!

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In case you were unsure of some build examples: Here's a list -

Elementalist - any spec/build - longest range weapons being staff/scepter, with medium/close ranger dagger that still technically plays different than a melee weapon.

Necromancer - literally any build and with any weapon outside of greatsword. Not sure of dagger's range but it isn't hack and slash.

Mesmer - any build really. Greatsword, staff, scepter, pistol off-hand, sword-offhand, focus-offhand. The only weapons that are strictly melee are sword and axe.

Thief - rifle Deadeye and any thief can play pistol pistol. It's actually a really unique and fun playstyle. Shortbow, mainly used for mob-tagging and movement.

Engineer - pistol/pistol and kits. Probably going to be condition based, but you have everything from ranged turrets, to flamethrowers, to toolbelt skills and a grenade kit ontop of your pistol pistol. Oh, and rifle as well.

Ranger - kind of obvious as it's in the name - has many builds and weapon choices - you have axe, longbow, shortbow, staff if you go druid,

Revenants - shortbow and Renegade, hammer in general is the go-to for WvW which is entirely ranged.

Guardians - most ideal ranged gameplay comes from Dragonhunter, and while longbow may not be favorable for raids it's fun in wvw and open world content. You also have staff and scepter, scepter being a desired weapon for many raid and fractal builds, also quite lethal in some pvp builds. Staff is more for utility though admittedly and doesn't even have the benefit of providing Gandalf roleplay with the change to skill 1.

Warriors - lethal rifle burst builds, though not my ideal build, has some potential at least in pvp. Longbow and condi is also an option, especially as berserker elite spec.

I think they've done pretty well at making sure that each class has a wide range of playstyles, some of them obviously being more favorable to specific game modes, but the option is there.

If you're strictly referring to fractals and raids, then yes, your only real option is going to be necromancer or ele, as all the other classes are just more efficient with melee weapons. Even rangers, which is odd. I think this is caused in part by the emphasis they've placed on stacking for boonshare and boss mechanics, and partially due to them not wanting to enhance or create further imbalance from specs that are potentially already lethal or specialized in ranged.

I think they could probably be a bit better about giving some of the ranged builds more identity and viability, like having a ranger actually viable with ranged weapons, or having a renegade more effective with a shortbow than just camping axe/mace, or having a condi-mesmer camp axe when they have scepter that could be great with a few tweaks, or dragonhunter longbow be more effective than just camping sword/scepter and greatsword. Or having an engineer build that doesn't rely on being on the hitbox and spamming minimum range bombs with pistol-offhand being solely there for utility.

Fractals are a little more lenient in terms of ranged/melee playstyle, outside of challenge modes, but if your sole complaint is with raids then I understand. But with many boss mechanics having cone-based attacks and projectile effects, and boon management being essential to the strategy, I don't think there's much of a point in putting a lot of effort into tweaking a bunch of ranged weapons.. because ultimately you're going to be as close as possible. Maybe taking some of the emphasis off of boons would help to create opportunity for a wider arrange of playstyles, but I'm not sure how much effort it would be worth just to make raids a little more viable. (Oh, and healing too. That's probably the major reason for stacking. And aside from aura-heal tempests, firebrands and druids are both pretty limited when it comes to efficiency.)

But for everything other than raids, range is just as viable as melee.

I'm not even sure what they could add at this point to create more ranged roles. A ritualist/scepter rev spec might be an option. Perhaps somekind of javelin-throwing/paragon elite spec for a class like warrior or guardian.

It's hard to think of things they could add, because they have approached weapons in a very unique and unexpected way with many of the classes in this game. I.e. Mesmer greatsword being a ranged weapon, revenant hammer being ranged, axe for rangers and necros being ranged, daggers for eles and necros technically being ranged, daggers for necros technically being ranged even if smaller range.

I think if they continue to create elite-specs, we could easily see another Mesmer spec that's focused on ranged given that the last two were melee oriented. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a ranged warrior spec similar to Paragon since it's the one playstyle that it hasn't really received yet. And lastly, I think engineer could benefit from a truly ranged weapon that may even have additional synergy with some of the core class, i.e. turrets.

Just to continue this long rant, with what we have received in the form of elite specs for each class:

Ele - Tempest with warhorn which is technically ranged, Weaver with sword that is definitely melee. Next spec could be a bow or a greatsword imo.Necro - Reaper with greatsword and melee oriented, Scourge with torch and ranged oriented. Next spec - who knows.Mesmer - shield which is defensive and could go either way but leaning towards melee, axe which is melee. - Next spec I see being a bow or dagger that plays as ranged.

Revenant - Herald with shield and melee, Renegade with shortbow and seems themed around mid-range.Warrior - Berserker with sword and melee oriented, Spellbreaker - melee oriented.Guardian - Dragonhunter, longbow, ranged. Firebrand, melee oriented and axe.

Thief - Daredevil staff, melee. Deadeye, rifle, ranged.Ranger - Druid, staff, ranged. Soulbeast, dagger, melee favorable.Engineer - Scrapper, hammer - melee. Holo, sword, melee.

I might be one of the rare Ranged warriors in there, I use it with Berserk spec, and a ton of quickness to build up adrenaline faster. Rifle berserk is quite good at CC, and does fairly decent damage, a good companion to a quickness greatsword, greatsword for groups, rifle for focus.

The ranged options for all classes are viable, but sometime require more attention as to making them click with the rest of the class

This is so confusing... every class in the game has a "Ranged" build that does nice damage!

Ele has staff (fully in range because 1 weapon set)

Guardian has Dragonhunter that offers CC and damage

Thief has Deadeye that offers damage

Ranger has longbow (longest projectile distance out of any skill)

Mesmer has Greatsword (Mirage GS is excellent for open world farming and tagging in WvW)

Necromancer has shades from range (and I think lich form counts?) Plus staff

Engineer has rifle and turrets

Warrior has rifle with spiked bursts from ranged

Revenant (Renegade) has shortbow and spirits which can be casted from afar

I'm assuming this is NOT for Raids and Fractals--if it is, the problem isn't the lack of Ranged specs but rather the boss and stacking design.

@"Abelisk.4527" said:This is so confusing... every class in the game has a "Ranged" build that does nice damage!

Ele has staff (fully in range because 1 weapon set)

Guardian has Dragonhunter that offers CC and damage

Thief has Deadeye that offers damage

Ranger has longbow (longest projectile distance out of any skill)

Mesmer has Greatsword (Mirage GS is excellent for open world farming and tagging in WvW)

Necromancer has shades from range (and I think lich form counts?) Plus staff

Engineer has rifle and turrets

Warrior has rifle with spiked bursts from ranged

Revenant (Renegade) has shortbow and spirits which can be casted from afar

I'm assuming this is NOT for Raids and Fractals--if it is, the problem isn't the lack of Ranged specs but rather the boss and stacking design.

And its absolute kitten for dps, i tried in fracs tonight longbow doing 5000 dps lol to my GS 40k dps, attacking from ranged as a ranger is abysmal. To be clear im not about open world or wvw so much i mean in raids and fracs. From what i have been told longbow on a ranger is a utility weapon not a damage weapon, that seems to bear out. It takes me 5 times longer to kill something with a bow than with melee. I understand lots of classes can use ranged it just sucks that rangers longbow is terrible.

@Puma.3645 said:actually i was wondering the opposite..seems like melees always get beat up in fights.

Greatsword Minion Master Reaper says you're wrong.

almost every class in this game has ranged weapon options???

@Tiviana.2650 said:And its absolute kitten for dps, i tried in fracs tonight longbow doing 5000 dps lol to my GS 40k dps, attacking from ranged as a ranger is abysmal.Condition shortbow/shortbow Soulbeast (or so called Sbx3 build) has a respectable dps and is considered among the meta builds. It's just that fractals favour power dps more. In raids however you see them occasionally (even if they've been mostly pushed out by condi mirage by now, they are very easy to run, which keeps them relevant still)

@"Tiviana.2650" said:Some people prefer ranged classes and when you thinking of iconic caster classes like magi and necromancers you think of them also being ranged casters. Im just curious why there are no specs that take advantage of range, we have ranged weapons, but the only spec that gets good damage from them is deadeye. I would love to be a caster and not have to sit in melee to fight, i mean the melee dog pile gets old after awhile you cant see jack anyway. I think variety is a nice option and would like to see ranged damage that viable. Swinging the same melee weapons gets old, i would like to be able to use more of my arsenal.

Problem is not so much in builds of specific classes, the problem is the imo ridiculous requirement to "stack" all the time in this game. Because the buffs are so short range all the time, you won't get benefits from them if you stay far away from the group.

Therefore even if you are a range class and you want to play optimal you stay in melee range together with all other group members to profit from their buffs and combofields.

If you're solo playing however, there are enough capable range builds out there for ranger, mesmer, thief, necro, ele and enough semi range builds for guardian, revenant, engineer , basically all classes except warrior

@Tiviana.2650 said:we have ranged weapons, but the only spec that gets good damage from them is deadeye.It's amazing that when someone says the above, they get replies like this:@"Isle of Stars.3049" said:Deadeye says "hi"....@Ultima.5318 said:almost every class in this game has ranged weapon options???

You two clearly didn't even bother to read the original post right?

As for the topic. I think one of the problems this game has is the big range of damage between specs and weapon choices. One of the reasons I don't sPvP and only do WvW for the rewards is the crazy imbalances between classes, specs and weapon choices. I really don't like the idea of having to play this class with this spec and those weapons or else you suck. Most builds in this game are essentially sub-par so that begs the question of why having them at all? Even the newer elite specializations aren't all very elite. I hate having to choose between what I like and what is actually effective.

I think there needs to be a clarification here:

OP is talking about optimal performance in raids/instanced content with groups, but spoke as if they were referring to the builds on the classes themselves.

When people say classes have decent ranged builds, they are correct. The difference is if you want to play them optimally in groups instances, you have to play them a specific way (stacking) to get the BEST performance from them IN THE GROUP.

Those are two very different conversations. A person can also play the BEST melee build and have absolutely terrible performance in a grouped instance because of how they play it as well. The distinction between the best build and best performance in a situation are two completely different things.

There are absolutely awesome ranged builds in this game that allow you to do amazing things, but it's the conditions you place that determine where they are awesome. "Optimal" "Group" "Instance Content" are conditions that included very few of those awesome ranged builds.

Oh, it's the simpler question? Okay...

There's a principle in game balance that states ranged damage must always be inferior to melee damage. Ranged damage is always safer and easier than melee, and therefore must be less powerful for melee builds to be viable at all. This is the same reason the melee weapon in Shooter games are almost always one-shot kills: higher risk, higher reward.

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