600 range... after playing this game for more then 4 years , nerf after nerf... no words

Bitter chuckle

Haha, yeah. Super great change halving steal range.

Yup. Good job dev's!

I used to main a thief,... now it's not even worth playing anymore. Made a test build with 2.4k toughness and died in 2 warrior skills,.. lol

@Skugga.5298 said:I used to main a thief,... now it's not even worth playing anymore. Made a test build with 2.4k toughness and died in 2 warrior skills,.. lol

Yeah I noticed quick the trait changes in the DD line are such low coefficients that they literally change nothing on the dps or sustain department. Given where its sustain/dps was at it needed far more but might as well forget about it as the way this community is ull have people posting how DD is super tanky now or that it hits to hard lmao. The combination of the class being largely disliked by all but thief players and the balance teams knowing or unknowing constant beating the put on the class itl never get out of the garbage hole.

New meta is Daredevil and Trickery with Sword/Dagger - you heard it here first.

I used to savor teef tears, now all they do is piss me off. look, d/p still has a spamable 900 range tele. shortbow is still unrivaled mobility. chances are if youre using steal as an engage youre playing teef wrong, and if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I used to savor teef tears, now all they do is kitten me off. look, d/p still has a spamable 900 range tele. shortbow is still unrivaled mobility. chances are if youre using steal as an engage youre playing teef wrong, and if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

Lmao it's great being able to tele often using all our ini so u literally cant use any weapon attacks,there is a trade off. Other classes can tele as well woohoo. Oh steal can interrupted and give a kitten stolen skill unless its mesmer woohoo.all that is a fair trade for no sustain and garbage dps.give me a break. privileged cuz one skill among mediocre skills on a whole weapon set(sb5) and can tele with a target to get few decent boons and gbage stolen skills :)

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

lol......LOL.......

LOL

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

Play the class. Find success. I'll wait.

lol, no facts presented, not even coherent arguments. just qq and that's about it.

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:I used to savor teef tears, now all they do is kitten me off. look, d/p still has a spamable 900 range tele. shortbow is still unrivaled mobility. chances are if youre using steal as an engage youre playing teef wrong, and if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

And yet, D/P saw little play prior to these huge nerfs. That "spammable" 900 range teleport, besides not being spammable, is also delayed and lowers your potential damage input. And your idea that using steal as an engage is "playing thief wrong" shows how little you know about the class, as does the "if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway" part. No, you use steal to engage quite often, as you are likely low on initiative when engaging on someone in a +1, and also need to get in range fast. And if you are already engaged, you wont be all that close very often. Its usually right to stick around at range as you die far too easily when youre too close.

But then again, I dont imagine you care. Daredevil was already completely outclassed by core thief, and D/P was an underpowered weaponset. This nerfed rendered it unplayable (well, it and the other nerfs, really).

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I used to savor teef tears, now all they do is kitten me off. look, d/p still has a spamable 900 range tele. shortbow is still unrivaled mobility. chances are if youre using steal as an engage youre playing teef wrong, and if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

D/Ps primary source of burst, the only thing it was used for outside decap, was to use Steal + Combo, if you truly just said that using Steal to engage in correlation with d/p then ye, you obviously don't play the profession. Not Using steal for engage is true only for S/D and Staff, since S/D doesn't use DD the 600r doesn't concern it, which brings us to staff... I played staff for long long time and after patch gave it many many (still am) tries and the 600r is so damn freaking low that sometimes you can't use Steal (Swipe) on people standing in the same god damn node. Now due to staff skills 3 and 5 and even 2 when it gets bugged (which it does 90% of the time) you more often than not end up being g outside the 600r no matter what you do unless you want to get yourself instantly vaporized by not utilising staff skills, this goes hand in hand with the fact that the amount of scenarios where you absolutely have to land Steal but can't at all is overabundant due to the reasons I mentioned that keep putting Staff thief out of its range.

Quoted myself...

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

chances are if you're using steal as an engage you're playing teef wrong-

I don't even play the class

You not playing the class is pretty obvious actually. And yet somehow it is privileged for the thieves to complain about suddenly losing half the range on one of their tools, but not for someone who doesn't play the class even marginally to scold them for doing so?

Steal can be used up obstacles and in conjunction with moves other than D/P. This impacts more than you know.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

Objectively true. If you look at weapon kits, Shortbow 5 easily outclasses every other professions weapon 5 skill in terms of just how much it swings games. It is objectively the strongest weapon skill in the game in terms of game impact. It's like old mesmer portal in terms of how OP Portal is over other utilities but in terms of weapon scale. I think once Shortbow 5 is addressed, maybe limiting it to 450 units, we can see thieves moved into a more fair role where they can be more consistent 1v1ers and team damage dealers.

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:unrivaled mobility.

No, I don't agree that it's objectively true.

• It's not even close to portal in terms of OP.
• It moves one person 900 units at a cost of 6 initiative out of a max of 15.
• It does no damage.
• If any one of the relatively quick classes decide to follow the thief to the decap point (as they often do), winning the race there nets the thief zero, because those classes can begin their pummeling, forcing the thief to retreat, or killing them.
• If a ranger with a bow gives chase, he can peg you. If he has great sword and bird, he can cover the same gap, only difference is the kiting ability in a map with port advantage, but that's not a point to point advantage.
• Warrior moves fast, has movement skills....it's like you have never seen anyone try to chase a war...they can close the gap or make one at will.
• Mesmer, specifically Mirage, has a kit that can rival the speed with jaunt blink and axe.

Honorable mention: Holo smith in forge using leap and the superspeed trait can horizontally give some chase

It seems there are "rivals". So, it can not be objectively true. Horizontally there are rivals, and vertically there are those that can give chase.

If the SB was so game swinging, then there would never be a problem with double thief.

The thing is, there are substitutes to thief with comparable mobility but also with enough of other value than mobility that if they play that many players have swapped to it.

I can't stop laughing tbh. All these try hard daredevils who trash talked deadeye some month ago now got a taste of their own medicine <3

/Edit: You did it boys: Finally we can all play S/D core...

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

SB 5 is strong for sure and effective in a game mode like conquest but it's not OP in any way and suffers from drawbacks like 6 ini cost and no line of sight bugs and becomes less important in pve with mounts. SB skills 1-4 are objectively worse than other bow skills,sure thiefs learned to make best with what they got ie choking gas on downed opponents,pre cast clusters with steal(not with swipe lol) and cluster in fields etc all inch uses except maybe a low dps way to tag enemies and kilm clones due to auto ricochet lol. Sb as a whole is not a reason a class is OP or needs to be underpowered in the slightest.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

This is PVP MY DUDE who cares about mounts.

If you put all the weapon skills side by side it is not possible to argue that Infiltrator's Arrow hasnt singlehandedly won more conquest matches on it's own than any other weapon skill. That is objectively overpowered conpared to every other class weapon skill.

Portal got rebalanced for being heads and shoulders above all other utilty skills and singlehandedly winning more games than any of them. It's time to give Infiltrator's Arrow the same treatment.

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

I meant sb5 in pve as stated in post. Also if a class success or role is dependent on one skill I'd say that speakers volumes as to how garbage the class is lol not how strong it is I'm sure theives would rather be doing somthing else other than sb5 to perform thier roll if they had anything else to offer,even rev is better +1 now so, or use their class skills as a whole to do their job ie like other classes,be way more fun no?

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

They can take that away after they give something (many things such as more health, sustain, moar damage, better attacks, and a button dedicated to reliably under every circumstance 1-shot mirages) back, unless you want to give infiltrator's arrow 10,000 range. I'll take that portal treatment.

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:unrivaled mobility.

Portal could take whole teams, or allow the mes to "drop off" revs far away, or be in 2 places almost at one time.

Simply put, the strength of shortbow 5 is the lack of the foes situational awareness and defense.

A small application of these two factors can put 6-12 initiative into oblivion.

In games now, thief is reliant on team knowing how to play with thief.

None are happy with two. If one shortbow 5 can win the game, 2 shortbow 5's is a guaranteed victory.....

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I used to savor teef tears, now all they do is kitten me off. look, d/p still has a spamable 900 range tele. shortbow is still unrivaled mobility. chances are if youre using steal as an engage youre playing teef wrong, and if youre already engaged you should be within 600 range anyway. I don't even play the class and I know that. talk about privilege lol...

Well you clearly don't play thief as you would know Steal was an essential key to a thief's opener when running D/P. So now the only effective build is S/D with Core trait lines. Daredevil was souly ran on D/P. They effectively made an elite spec not worth taking at all. So I guess you get to enjoy the evade forever S/D thieves. Have fun!

In the case of D/P steal range 100% correlated to damage. As it allowed burst from stealth from long range but now that isn't possible. So now we have to waste initiative on what? Shadow Shot? Which is garbage other then the tele. Then what? Auto attack? Which again is garbage.

I can 100% say that the balance team has 0 idea what they are doing. When a class has a singular okay at best build and everything else is meme worthy there is an issue. They nerfed one of the most fun to play builds and skill based builds in the game for literally 0 reason. After 3 years. No one complained about D/P thief. It was actually in a perfect spot. The balance team doesn't even realize that thief at it's core has tradeoff built in. To gain stealth we either have to burn a utility skill or we have to use black powder and combo with heartseeker which epends our initiative to front load our burst that if we miss we can only auto.

These things clearly aren't thought of by the balance team in any way shape or form. They should honestly be embarrassed.

EDIT: Hell they didn't even test it to make sure it worked with all the steal related CDRs which means they don't even do QA well.

@Gundam Style.8495 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:unrivaled mobility.

If you want more damage in attacks , then give all other ranged characters the ability to kite any Meele spec (and i mean real kite , like 24/7 with cc and slow )(66% movement speed to swiftness) . in order to give up the bases and kite your ass :)If meele must do major damage , then the ranged must kite forever .And strafe attack (reduce the angle that you can run away , while attacking

Ootherwise if meele character , keep all the tools to stay on target and do damage , then give the defenders more survubily + damage

Either the Attacker or the Victim will have the Turtle eefect (more survubility)