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Training Mode in Raids?

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  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I gave you example of t3 players seeking t4 runs, something like that, yes.

    That doesn't answer the question of how they are going to come together and go to the higher tiers.

    Alright Ill break it to step by step if it's not clear to you. I assume you never saw 'chill' runs LFGs for t4s and best of all you never wander what kind of players do them.
    1. They have no omniportion( read have no KPs)
    2. They have confidence they can clear t3s but without having good experience, don't wanna mess with others daily rush, so they look for almost same exp players.
    3. They will LFG 'chill run, without asking for for exp, pots, foods and utilities.
    4. They will have patience and expect anyone to join that run have it as well

    It's that complicated. So complicated that is hard to imagine and comprehend. Hope this answers your question.

    It doesn't actually. @Cyninja.2954 did a great job explaining why.

    But I'm gonna add something different, since you insist so much on how good T3 fractals are at training people for T4:
    Imagine that they created a new difficulty tier for Raids that is like that Fractal T3... nearly empty of players. Good job. Creating an entire new "mode", adding extra overhead for any future Raids hampering future development of Raids, and for what? For a T3-like amount of players that will eventually train and go do the normal Raids until that easy mode is pointless and has no players running it anymore. T3 has the by far least amount of players (and for good reason)

    Further, let's suppose that this raid easy mode is indeed T3 difficulty, won't we need T1 and T2 difficulties so they can reach that point first?

    Ah, you as most here, think that making easy mode -means creating A NEW Instance, entirely new mode?
    You think, Anet codes every single tier of fractals?
    It works bit different. First they made full code that includes all the mech, then special functions, make them easier for tiers.
    Meaning taking a ready code and twining it, for not so entirely new mode not a big deal.

    no matter how difficult or easy, it's extra developer resources. Given how constantly things break with even unrelated content being added into the game in raids. Your assumption that this is nearly devoid or developer resource requirements is unfounded.

    @phs.6089 said:
    You know the reason why t3s have least players, not gonna answer that.

    Yes, most people play T1-2 for fun if they do not want challenging group content. The remainder play T4 for maximum reward. The only few who actually play T3 are the ones who want maximum reward but have no ascended armor yet. Doesn't change the fact that T3 is the least played of all fractal tiers.

    I only assume if there was easy mode, raids would be became more popular, meaning more money, meaning bigger team, meaning more raids.
    And you are right, there would be people that would go do easy mode for fun, never joining normal as it would be challenging content for them.
    Just like people do in other games.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:
    You think, Anet codes every single tier of fractals?

    No but Fractals and Raids are completely different. Fractals are built with mechanics that deal damage, Raids have mechanics that instantly kill you. Fractals at higher tiers add new instabilities, Raids will do what? Remove mechanics from the easier mode? I already said that already happens in Raids as most raid bosses start with a small subset of mechanics and gradually add more. Even casual/chill groups can beat these just fine, why "nerf" them?

    edit: I'm curious what kind of change do you believe an easy mode "Green Guardian" trash mob would have?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    I only assume if there was easy mode, raids would be became more popular, meaning more money, meaning bigger team, meaning more raids.

    Judging by Fractals and how T4 has the vast number of players compared to the other tiers (especially T3) adding an easy mode wouldn't make Raids more popular. Adding more Raids at a faster pace would.

  • Lorfi.7562Lorfi.7562 Member ✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    You think, Anet codes every single tier of fractals?

    No but Fractals and Raids are completely different. Fractals are built with mechanics that deal damage, Raids have mechanics that instantly kill you. Fractals at higher tiers add new instabilities, Raids will do what? Remove mechanics from the easier mode? I already said that already happens in Raids as most raid bosses start with a small subset of mechanics and gradually add more. Even casual/chill groups can beat these just fine, why "nerf" them?

    edit: I'm curious what kind of change do you believe an easy mode "Green Guardian" trash mob would have?

    knowing that no people in the green circle with protection does like 90% of ur hp, I guess they want if noone is in the green circle it does max 50% of ur max hp, maybe even less. But idk how that helps teaching raids.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I gave you example of t3 players seeking t4 runs, something like that, yes.

    That doesn't answer the question of how they are going to come together and go to the higher tiers.

    Alright Ill break it to step by step if it's not clear to you. I assume you never saw 'chill' runs LFGs for t4s and best of all you never wander what kind of players do them.
    1. They have no omniportion( read have no KPs)
    2. They have confidence they can clear t3s but without having good experience, don't wanna mess with others daily rush, so they look for almost same exp players.
    3. They will LFG 'chill run, without asking for for exp, pots, foods and utilities.
    4. They will have patience and expect anyone to join that run have it as well

    It's that complicated. So complicated that is hard to imagine and comprehend. Hope this answers your question.

    I have another question. Why do you care how they will? Why do you care at all? I don't care for something I let it alone, cus you know If stars are lit. It means there is someone who needs it.
    You are not the player that would go for easy mod neither you are one that will allow one with easy mod mastered to join your run.
    Why are you here and why do you care so much, asking me to explain you system that is already in game and works just fine?
    Meaning if it was done for raids it will work, it will work exactly the same or about the same or players will find a way.

    What is stoping these players now from doing chill raids squads?
    Thats basicly what training runs are.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I gave you example of t3 players seeking t4 runs, something like that, yes.

    That doesn't answer the question of how they are going to come together and go to the higher tiers.

    Alright Ill break it to step by step if it's not clear to you. I assume you never saw 'chill' runs LFGs for t4s and best of all you never wander what kind of players do them.
    1. They have no omniportion( read have no KPs)
    2. They have confidence they can clear t3s but without having good experience, don't wanna mess with others daily rush, so they look for almost same exp players.
    3. They will LFG 'chill run, without asking for for exp, pots, foods and utilities.
    4. They will have patience and expect anyone to join that run have it as well

    It's that complicated. So complicated that is hard to imagine and comprehend. Hope this answers your question.

    I have another question. Why do you care how they will? Why do you care at all? I don't care for something I let it alone, cus you know If stars are lit. It means there is someone who needs it.
    You are not the player that would go for easy mod neither you are one that will allow one with easy mod mastered to join your run.
    Why are you here and why do you care so much, asking me to explain you system that is already in game and works just fine?
    Meaning if it was done for raids it will work, it will work exactly the same or about the same or players will find a way.

    What is stoping these players now from doing chill raids squads?
    Thats basicly what training runs are.

    Judging by the posts that want training mode theres a few factors.

    1. Some want a mode where they can practice on their own without the burden of hindering others. Social anxiety can be hard for some people and even in chill training raid squads theres always that fear you're letting people down.
    2. Some dont like that difficulty is so high that they are forced to change builds in order to meet some skill bar that a random commander they dont even know has set.
    3. People dont like leading and they dont like failing. They know if they start a chill squad they will have to deal with failing.
  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I gave you example of t3 players seeking t4 runs, something like that, yes.

    That doesn't answer the question of how they are going to come together and go to the higher tiers.

    Alright Ill break it to step by step if it's not clear to you. I assume you never saw 'chill' runs LFGs for t4s and best of all you never wander what kind of players do them.
    1. They have no omniportion( read have no KPs)
    2. They have confidence they can clear t3s but without having good experience, don't wanna mess with others daily rush, so they look for almost same exp players.
    3. They will LFG 'chill run, without asking for for exp, pots, foods and utilities.
    4. They will have patience and expect anyone to join that run have it as well

    It's that complicated. So complicated that is hard to imagine and comprehend. Hope this answers your question.

    I have another question. Why do you care how they will? Why do you care at all? I don't care for something I let it alone, cus you know If stars are lit. It means there is someone who needs it.
    You are not the player that would go for easy mod neither you are one that will allow one with easy mod mastered to join your run.
    Why are you here and why do you care so much, asking me to explain you system that is already in game and works just fine?
    Meaning if it was done for raids it will work, it will work exactly the same or about the same or players will find a way.

    What is stoping these players now from doing chill raids squads?
    Thats basicly what training runs are.

    Judging by the posts that want training mode theres a few factors.

    1. Some want a mode where they can practice on their own without the burden of hindering others. Social anxiety can be hard for some people and even in chill training raid squads theres always that fear you're letting people down.
    2. Some dont like that difficulty is so high that they are forced to change builds in order to meet some skill bar that a random commander they dont even know has set.
    3. People dont like leading and they dont like failing. They know if they start a chill squad they will have to deal with failing.

    1 if its training they would have the burden of hindering others aswell otherwise it wont train them for normal.
    2 Same here they would need to change build to train otherwise would be totaly unaware when trying normal.
    2 How would this work all they have to do is auto attack like world bosses? that wouldent train them at all so no benefit for normal mode.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    You think, Anet codes every single tier of fractals?

    No but Fractals and Raids are completely different. Fractals are built with mechanics that deal damage, Raids have mechanics that instantly kill you. Fractals at higher tiers add new instabilities, Raids will do what? Remove mechanics from the easier mode? I already said that already happens in Raids as most raid bosses start with a small subset of mechanics and gradually add more. Even casual/chill groups can beat these just fine, why "nerf" them?

    edit: I'm curious what kind of change do you believe an easy mode "Green Guardian" trash mob would have?

    Question wasn't about easy encounters, it was about whole wings, stop exaggerating and taking convo in circles.
    How it would be done? There are plenty of examples, lover HP, cc bar, remove a single mech that newcomers struggle the most etc.

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    I gave you example of t3 players seeking t4 runs, something like that, yes.

    That doesn't answer the question of how they are going to come together and go to the higher tiers.

    Alright Ill break it to step by step if it's not clear to you. I assume you never saw 'chill' runs LFGs for t4s and best of all you never wander what kind of players do them.
    1. They have no omniportion( read have no KPs)
    2. They have confidence they can clear t3s but without having good experience, don't wanna mess with others daily rush, so they look for almost same exp players.
    3. They will LFG 'chill run, without asking for for exp, pots, foods and utilities.
    4. They will have patience and expect anyone to join that run have it as well

    It's that complicated. So complicated that is hard to imagine and comprehend. Hope this answers your question.

    I have another question. Why do you care how they will? Why do you care at all? I don't care for something I let it alone, cus you know If stars are lit. It means there is someone who needs it.
    You are not the player that would go for easy mod neither you are one that will allow one with easy mod mastered to join your run.
    Why are you here and why do you care so much, asking me to explain you system that is already in game and works just fine?
    Meaning if it was done for raids it will work, it will work exactly the same or about the same or players will find a way.

    What is stoping these players now from doing chill raids squads?
    Thats basicly what training runs are.

    Judging by the posts that want training mode theres a few factors.

    1. Some want a mode where they can practice on their own without the burden of hindering others. Social anxiety can be hard for some people and even in chill training raid squads theres always that fear you're letting people down.
    2. Some dont like that difficulty is so high that they are forced to change builds in order to meet some skill bar that a random commander they dont even know has set.
    3. People dont like leading and they dont like failing. They know if they start a chill squad they will have to deal with failing.

    1 if its training they would have the burden of hindering others aswell otherwise it wont train them for normal.
    2 Same here they would need to change build to train otherwise would be totaly unaware when trying normal.
    2 How would this work all they have to do is auto attack like world bosses? that wouldent train them at all so no benefit for normal mode.

    It's ok, don't worry, I see people attack, I'll kick them, it shouldn't come to attack. It must not be that easy.
    I feel i get confidence in clearing those with another 10 but struggle in normal. I'll go back to easy in with squad of 8 and keep practicing.
    But I'll do it on my time. Not relying on someone to organize a run on a boss/wing I'm interested in 2 weeks, the time I might be on shift, busy with family or bloody weekend evening.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    Question wasn't about easy encounters, it was about whole wings, stop exaggerating and taking convo in circles.
    How it would be done? There are plenty of examples, lover HP, cc bar, remove a single mech that newcomers struggle the most etc.

    I made a very simple question on how to make an easier version of the Green Guardian trash mob since you said entire wings, not just some fights. Whole wings means the trash mobs too no? The Green Guardian trash has a single mechanic, that will be removed? Why lower the HP or CC bar, are there even the most casual of groups that struggle on Green Guardian trash?

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    Question wasn't about easy encounters, it was about whole wings, stop exaggerating and taking convo in circles.
    How it would be done? There are plenty of examples, lover HP, cc bar, remove a single mech that newcomers struggle the most etc.

    I made a very simple question on how to make an easier version of the Green Guardian trash mob since you said entire wings, not just some fights. Whole wings means the trash mobs too no? The Green Guardian trash has a single mechanic, that will be removed? Why lower the HP or CC bar, are there even the most casual of groups that struggle on Green Guardian trash?

    I came here expecting another question of you of a subject making little to no difference. E.g.: How they will make escort easier? I wonder, will they reduce the fear duration or what?
    What I'm saying is, they can do with those trash mobs whatever, those trash mobs had meaning when wing was realized, nowadays with guids and exp people that can give hint all around, it doesn't matter. Yet you go ahead and make it to life and dead question. Then make your whole new post into a farce, asking why remove single mech from a trash mob.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:
    Then make your whole new post into a farce, asking why remove single mech from a trash mob.

    Hey you said to make changes to the entire wing and all fights not me. If you don't know what you want that's not my problem.