Thieves STILL deal too many stacks of poison. Needs additional nerfs.

Title says it all.

So does ur avatar lol

They didnt touch condi thief this patch which is sad lol

@bluri.2653 said:They didnt touch condi thief this patch which is sad lol

they buffed it with swipe CD reduce right

All the balance idea were kind of just basic logic it maybe good they didn’t touch condi thief yet because it might be new meta it’s just no one knows what meta will be. If condi is meta and super op anet will probably look at it next time, but I’m glad improv was nerfed and cds fixed we needed this change for awhile

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:So does ur avatar lol

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7qDEq2bMbcbPRQ2c/giphy.gif

XDDDD

Sounds like OP got killed by a thief because he doesnt know when to time his strikes, or slot a condi cleanse and use it at the right time.

@Kahrgan.7401 said:Sounds like OP got killed by a thief because he doesnt know when to time his strikes, or slot a condi cleanse and use it at the right time.Or you play condi thief yourself

@Kahrgan.7401 said:Sounds like OP got killed by a thief because he doesnt know when to time his strikes, or slot a condi cleanse and use it at the right time.

Even used at the perfect time, one cleanse would hardly be enough I think.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:So does ur avatar lol

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/449/773/38b.png ""

I and manty others are enjoying Healthy competitive games.

Note, healthy is bold.

Until there is news of guild wars 2 having a new design team with a new balance team in place, nothing will ever change.

Thr last balance patch once did not address it and Anet continues to justify it by enhancing Thief Profession negative impact to the game.

In othet word, they don't care, so wjy should we care to give them our time and investments in return?

By the way, the build templates did not move us to return to the game..

Until Anet is real and honest with us, nothing they do will move us.

Truth Can No Longer Be Fooled Or Be Stopped Until Thief Profession is Removed With A New Design/Balance Team Are In Place.

Have you tried cleansing/waiting the first burst, and then nuking them the second time they gapclose? The first sword2 use has the most condis on it and likely has the most poison stacks. Making sure to eat that and cleanse ensures the next time they cap close, you don't have to deal with weakness etc and as many poison stacks.

That way, you can just nuke them the moment they get in range. Use an instant CC or something. Your forum icon is holosmith - use a rifle four combo.

I am literally astounded at the balance teams ineptitude to not nerf Condie thiefs in some manner. First of all its extremelly unhealthy for PvP and promotes extremelly lazy gameplay and I wont even get into how obnoxious it is. 95% of thieves run this build and they run it because its easy its simple and you just press 2 buttons. Extremelly dissapointed by Anets balance team. Just my opinion, have a nice day.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So does ur avatar lol

Yes, because spellbreaker, deadeye, daredevil, reaper, herald, dragonhunter, and to some extent soulbeast are not enough counters for people. Condi thief wreaks chaos on the battlefield in a way that only a pure cleanse build can deal with and only support FB or mender's tempest can heal.

For your information, I bring Seeker's Amulet (YES, SEEKER's AMULET) to ranked PvP and people complain about how broken my class is. Maybe use your CCs. My build is strong, but carries a counter-able risk factor with it.

@memausz.7264 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So does ur avatar lol

I have no issue with condo thief at all. I actually think it fits perfectly in a game filled with still broken OP holo, mirage is far more anoying and cheese filled spec than any spec or class in the history of mmo's will ever be, splb with their super sustain and dps, fire weavers with their burn u to 0 in one sec while having great sustain and lb slb who arnt skilled enough to play the class melee and sit back and pew pew pew pew pew all while doing the same dps or more as a spec that has to be in close to do its dps. These post are pointless cuz gw2 is a literal joke of a pvp game if ur expecting any sort of balance regarding almost ever class especially the hot and pof specs lol. So who cares.

Alot of players just spout nonsense like "delete thief" because they never play the class and generally only play builds that are countered by thief. Or they don't enjoy fighting thieves (which is fair) and instead just want their personally hated class deleted from the game instead of learning to fight them (which is unreasonable)

Like this guy:

@Burnfall.9573 said:**Truth Can No Longer Be Fooled Or Be Stopped Until Thief Profession is Removed

Most players just ignore those types though and thankfully anet follow their example rather than giving into baseless hysteria.

Now that being said, condi DE does need toning down. Stealth, sustain and damage should NEVER mix. Stealth is a very powerful tool, and as such a class that relies on it to survive should essentially be extremely squishy. One slip should be punished severely. If the player insists on being tanky, then your attacks should hit like a wet noodle. This is not the case with condi DE, that can stack insane amounts of stealth and yet still be built like a tank whilst dishing out good sustain poison damage with the occasional burst. It is one of the most forgiving low risk/high reward easy to play builds that exist

Stealth/sustain/damage. Pick 2.

@"Doug.4930" said:Alot of players just spout nonsense like "delete thief" because they never play the class and generally only play builds that are countered by thief. Or they don't enjoy fighting thieves (which is fair) and instead just want their personally hated class deleted from the game instead of learning to fight them (which is unreasonable)

Like this guy:

@Burnfall.9573 said:**Truth Can No Longer Be Fooled Or Be Stopped Until Thief Profession is Removed

Uh, condi DE has sustain? Like Holo has sustain? Like Weaver has sustain? Like SB has sustain?

Like, I’ll agree I can do damage and weave a lot of stealth as part of the playstyle, but if there’s some amazing tanky version that also stealths and does amazing damage please let me know.

@saerni.2584 said:

@"Doug.4930" said:Alot of players just spout nonsense like "delete thief" because they never play the class and generally only play builds that are countered by thief. Or they don't enjoy fighting thieves (which is fair) and instead just want their personally hated class deleted from the game instead of learning to fight them (which is unreasonable)

Like this guy:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:**Truth Can No Longer Be Fooled Or Be Stopped Until Thief Profession is Removed

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAQhrlFwOYbMRmJO2OrvKA-z1IY8og/Ec6Bh8pAkNgSAT5HwcSAkFY+0A-w

Here you go, this is a rough build that I'm talking about. Something akin to this. Mainly the Dire and stealth. I don't know about you, but I'd call a build with 3.1k armour and amazing stealth up time pretty damn tanky. This is the build I'm talking about that should NEVER exist. It has stealth, sustain and damage. It is a build you run if you want the most forgiving thief play style possible.Glass deadeye's make a mistake/get reavealed and bursted then they die. Instantly. But this build, you make a mistake and get hit hard because you messed up. Then it doesn't matter because hey you have 3.1k armour and 21k health lol. Just face tank the burst and then restealth.

Please don't play this build. If you do then you're bad and you should feel bad.

Jokes aside though play what you enjoy and have fun, but from a critical standpoint, this build shouldn't exist. Its way to powerful and way overturned at what it does. It allows players to get away with faaarrr too many errors before it goes down.

Like i said, a class shouldn't have sustain, damage and stealth. This build has all 3.

I'm almost certain that I have read on these forums that condi thief was dead, alongside most thief builds, because there is so much cleanse in game. And here we are back to it being OP because... there's an extra stack of poison for one trait? What am I missing here?

@Doug.4930

Issues:

1. The crit rate is too low to stack malice and get M7 procs quickly enough to contribute.
2. Stacking stealth forever (which you can’t do without spending a lot of initiative, which you don’t have a lot of and won’t regen quickly enough — see item #1) runs contrary to actually being able to build up the might stacks you need to do heavy damage.
3. You have a decent amount of poison application but very little/no other conditions making individual cleanses really powerful against you.
4. You can’t deal with projectile denial and otherwise do very small amounts of damage.

I’d rate the build:

• Damage 3.5/5
• Sustain 4.5/5
• Stealth 3.5/5

Rating Explanation:

• Damage: you can do decent condi burst with this but risk being unable to apply it if any projectile block is active. Cleanse is also a huge issue with few cover condi. Higher than average damage but lower sustained damage especially after people figure out what you are running.
• Sustain: you have good healing and a good number of stunbreaks. I’m going to say you have good sustain combined with high armor and decent cleanse. You lose a half-point because you lack other optional defensive utilities (evade, blind, projectile denial, etc).
• Stealth: you have decent stealth. It will keep you alive but you risk initiative management issues if you are forced to swap to D/P to maintain it.

I’d disagree that your build has it all. It has good sustain (based mainly on having decent stealth). However, there are serious issues with its ability to apply damage. Against a golem or non-cleansing opponent you will be fine. Cleanse and projectile denial among other potential tactics make it hard to call the build unfair (it still will probably perform decently but that’s a great spot to be in).

@saerni.2584 said:@Doug.4930

Issues:

1. The crit rate is too low to stack malice and get M7 procs quickly enough to contribute.
2. Stacking stealth forever (which you can’t do without spending a lot of initiative, which you don’t have a lot of and won’t regen quickly enough — see item #1) runs contrary to actually being able to build up the might stacks you need to do heavy damage.
3. You have a decent amount of poison application but very little/no other conditions making individual cleanses really powerful against you.
4. You can’t deal with projectile denial and otherwise do very small amounts of damage.

I’d rate the build:

• Damage 3.5/5
• Sustain 4.5/5
• Stealth 3.5/5

Rating Explanation:

• Damage: you can do decent condi burst with this but risk being unable to apply it if any projectile block is active. Cleanse is also a huge issue with few cover condi. Higher than average damage but lower sustained damage especially after people figure out what you are running.
• Sustain: you have good healing and a good number of stunbreaks. I’m going to say you have good sustain combined with high armor and decent cleanse. You lose a half-point because you lack other optional defensive utilities (evade, blind, projectile denial, etc).
• Stealth: you have decent stealth. It will keep you alive but you risk initiative management issues if you are forced to swap to D/P to maintain it.

I’d disagree that your build has it all. It has good sustain (based mainly on having decent stealth). However, there are serious issues with its ability to apply damage. Against a golem or non-cleansing opponent you will be fine. Cleanse and projectile denial among other potential tactics make it hard to call the build unfair (it still will probably perform decently but that’s a great spot to be in).

I disagree on a couple of points. Firstly by running double rifle with energy sigils the build can easily keep up with the stealth output d/p provided without running into any trouble.

Secondly this build does have access to blind through both blinding powder, and comboing spotters shot through snipers cover.

Thirdly due to the passive application of venom's partly due to the new SA rework this build can simply outlast most classes condi clears though its amazing sustain and stealth. So whilst it can't burst targets down straight away it can outlast pretty much anything.

I'd rate:Damage 3.5/5Sustain 4.5/5Stealth 5/5 (because In my opinion this build can't really be outstealthed by anything presently in the game, by cycling utilities and blasting snipers cover with BP occasionally it pretty much can maintain an 80-90% stealth up time throughout the fight. Now a glass DE COULD be killed in that 10-20% window (as annoying and painful as fights like that are) because its full glass. Not this build however.

Oh and I just made that build very quickly, I probably forgot a few things like it shouldn't be running m7. Qobk would be better.

@Doug.4930 said:

@saerni.2584 said:@Doug.4930

Issues:

1. The crit rate is too low to stack malice and get M7 procs quickly enough to contribute.
2. Stacking stealth forever (which you can’t do without spending a lot of initiative, which you don’t have a lot of and won’t regen quickly enough — see item #1) runs contrary to actually being able to build up the might stacks you need to do heavy damage.
3. You have a decent amount of poison application but very little/no other conditions making individual cleanses really powerful against you.
4. You can’t deal with projectile denial and otherwise do very small amounts of damage.

I’d rate the build:

• Damage 3.5/5
• Sustain 4.5/5
• Stealth 3.5/5

Rating Explanation:

• Damage: you can do decent condi burst with this but risk being unable to apply it if any projectile block is active. Cleanse is also a huge issue with few cover condi. Higher than average damage but lower sustained damage especially after people figure out what you are running.
• Sustain: you have good healing and a good number of stunbreaks. I’m going to say you have good sustain combined with high armor and decent cleanse. You lose a half-point because you lack other optional defensive utilities (evade, blind, projectile denial, etc).
• Stealth: you have decent stealth. It will keep you alive but you risk initiative management issues if you are forced to swap to D/P to maintain it.

I’d disagree that your build has it all. It has good sustain (based mainly on having decent stealth). However, there are serious issues with its ability to apply damage. Against a golem or non-cleansing opponent you will be fine. Cleanse and projectile denial among other potential tactics make it hard to call the build unfair (it still will probably perform decently but that’s a great spot to be in).

In responding to a critique of a build you should not rebut the critique with a different build. You can not have double rifle with energy sigils and d/p at the same time. Double Rifle with energy sigils has weaknesses that are entirely different. Maintaining stealth is of no use if everyone of your attacks can be addressed via reflects, projectile blocks, evades, immunities and the usage of LOS. Double ranged weapons is not generally a good idea barring sb/sb which can work because some of the attacks use fields and AOE.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@saerni.2584 said:@Doug.4930

Issues:

1. The crit rate is too low to stack malice and get M7 procs quickly enough to contribute.
2. Stacking stealth forever (which you can’t do without spending a lot of initiative, which you don’t have a lot of and won’t regen quickly enough — see item #1) runs contrary to actually being able to build up the might stacks you need to do heavy damage.
3. You have a decent amount of poison application but very little/no other conditions making individual cleanses really powerful against you.
4. You can’t deal with projectile denial and otherwise do very small amounts of damage.

I’d rate the build:

• Damage 3.5/5
• Sustain 4.5/5
• Stealth 3.5/5

Rating Explanation:

• Damage: you can do decent condi burst with this but risk being unable to apply it if any projectile block is active. Cleanse is also a huge issue with few cover condi. Higher than average damage but lower sustained damage especially after people figure out what you are running.
• Sustain: you have good healing and a good number of stunbreaks. I’m going to say you have good sustain combined with high armor and decent cleanse. You lose a half-point because you lack other optional defensive utilities (evade, blind, projectile denial, etc).
• Stealth: you have decent stealth. It will keep you alive but you risk initiative management issues if you are forced to swap to D/P to maintain it.

I’d disagree that your build has it all. It has good sustain (based mainly on having decent stealth). However, there are serious issues with its ability to apply damage. Against a golem or non-cleansing opponent you will be fine. Cleanse and projectile denial among other potential tactics make it hard to call the build unfair (it still will probably perform decently but that’s a great spot to be in).

Like i said i made it in like 2 seconds before i went to sleep. Ranged can be extremely powerful when used correctly and usually makes up for what you sacrifice and more. Just time you're attacks and watch out for reflects. I use a rifle DE presently and find its quite strong.

@Doug.4930 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@saerni.2584 said:@Doug.4930

Issues:

1. The crit rate is too low to stack malice and get M7 procs quickly enough to contribute.
2. Stacking stealth forever (which you can’t do without spending a lot of initiative, which you don’t have a lot of and won’t regen quickly enough — see item #1) runs contrary to actually being able to build up the might stacks you need to do heavy damage.
3. You have a decent amount of poison application but very little/no other conditions making individual cleanses really powerful against you.
4. You can’t deal with projectile denial and otherwise do very small amounts of damage.

I’d rate the build:

• Damage 3.5/5
• Sustain 4.5/5
• Stealth 3.5/5

Rating Explanation:

• Damage: you can do decent condi burst with this but risk being unable to apply it if any projectile block is active. Cleanse is also a huge issue with few cover condi. Higher than average damage but lower sustained damage especially after people figure out what you are running.
• Sustain: you have good healing and a good number of stunbreaks. I’m going to say you have good sustain combined with high armor and decent cleanse. You lose a half-point because you lack other optional defensive utilities (evade, blind, projectile denial, etc).
• Stealth: you have decent stealth. It will keep you alive but you risk initiative management issues if you are forced to swap to D/P to maintain it.

I’d disagree that your build has it all. It has good sustain (based mainly on having decent stealth). However, there are serious issues with its ability to apply damage. Against a golem or non-cleansing opponent you will be fine. Cleanse and projectile denial among other potential tactics make it hard to call the build unfair (it still will probably perform decently but that’s a great spot to be in).

Any build can appear strong depending on the nature of the build you face. As example, I am quite familiar with thief and including the Condition variants as I play all types of thief regularity. The spec you outlined is relatively easy to counter due to the limited number of conditions. If I am facing your spec with a Power thief (such as my s/p variant) , I can quite easily handle those conditions and use my own PORT to's to keep you under pressure. I can use walls and other obstacles to anchor my return ports. While you can likely escape using stealth you are not going to find the time to inflict much in the way of damage. A thief traited s/p using trickster and in the Acro line has a wealth of condition cleanses and your build just will not inflict those poisons fast enough. (It not like I do not have dodges, evades and stealths of my own either)

Your build can be very effective in WvW because there a whole lot of people you run into that might trait only one cleanse. Others just use their cleanses at the wrong time.

I should note that my critique should be read as saying the build is bad.

I’m mainly suggesting there are more effective duelists versus a number of specs.

A lot of opposing builds will have conditions cleanse or projectile denial, both of which will put your build in a bad spot as far as damage applied.

You are super tanky and able to stealth a lot. You won’t die if you play it safe. But if your goal is to win versus a wide variety of opponents you may have issues.

On stealth, part of the stealth comparison was versus a permastealth DE. It’s not that I’m saying you have bad stealth. You have plenty. It’s that in thief vs thief matchups a lot of winning ends up being who has more access to and sustained use of stealth.