Having played and loved core necro for more than 5 years in WvW and PvE, there was always one thing bothering me about this class not mattering what build i am playing with core necro. The elite skills...They are shortly said very... very terrible and outdated in my honest opinion. Especially in WvW roaming, i haven't even experienced one moment where i am thankful of pulling off an elite skill with necromancer.

basically the elite necro skills right now

Plaguelands: Let me just start with what i am considering the worst elite skill in the entire game. In PvE it may seem useful but looking at the cooldown... it's 2 minutes. The cooldown is WAY too high for a skill that (flaw nr. 2) is literally just a tiny 240 radius AoE field where people in will in WvW/PvP will either just move around it, cleanse every condi it gives slowly while typing /dance very gently and slowly (since even roaming classes can cleanse condis more than guardians before HoT...) or laugh at it (while cleansing the conditions of course). For PvP and WvW, this skill seems like it's supposed to be used on enemies who magically get hit by a 20 second immobilize that cant be cleansed, while in reality, people can just avoid a 240 radius as if they aren't mobs.

Lich Form: I almost considered this even worse than Plaguelands due to it's 2,5 minute cooldown. Are.You.Kidding me... Holosmiths have the Prime Light Beam that is well animated to be easily dodged with a perfect 60 second cooldown. If you hit with that skill as a Holosmith, you'll place down AoE in a straight line and launch + heavily damage the enemy. A good but not overpowered elite skill in my opinion. Lich form is just unbelievably slow, gimmicky and surprisingly pretty much lowers your defence (like cleanse, self protection application, lack of death's carapace). The only good thing about lich form is the high damage auto-attack which is actually more beneficial in PvP and WvW than in PvE (where honestly if you want to be a good DPS player with necro, just choose reaper or scourge). But that is just one skill out of the other 4 lackluster skills lich form offers for 20 seconds.1. Skill nr. 2/Lich's Gaze: This skill is a bit weird. Yes you could just spam this skill constantly while casting other skills, it is a bit useless in terms of damage output (i'd wanna trade for higher cooldown in favor of higher damage of Lich's Gaze) and the conditions you are putting out : 2 seconds of cripple and 10 seconds of 1 stack of vulnerability. On paper, the 2 seconds of cripple spam might seem useful, but comparing that vision with what i have experienced in WvW, it is the complete opposite. Firebrands being able to cleanse while playing blindfolded. Warriors benefiting from it by gaining regeneration on cripple (from the defence trait). Mirages dancing around you as you are in Lich Form, making it difficult to use this skill.2. Skill nr. 3/Ripple of Terror: This skill only benefits the Terror trait and using it before continuously auto-attacking. Shadow-stepping is not much of a use since the rest of the lich form skills aren't fast and none of em are melee related, which could be of good use (if the skill deals good damage). Another point i will use yet again for skill 4 and 5 is the cooldown for this skill. 15 seconds while lasting only 20 seconds in Lich Form. Meaning you could only use this skill twice, risking if the enemy will also luckily/spam(daredevil) dodge the skill or have 10 stacks of stability with just one press on a button. I don't want this skill to be a horrendous spam-skill, but reducing the cooldown + reducing 2 seconds of fear, while maintaining the ability to shadow-step would be awesome.3. Skill nr. 4/Summon Madness: The idea of this skill is pretty good. The cast time is on the other side is pretty bad. And considering that the movement-speed of the enemy players are always faster than the spawned minions that can be easily killed by almost any AoE and cleave, makes this skill a little useless. So yet again it's the same reason why no necromancer plays the minion build as endgame in PvE or WvW/PvE. Minions are low damaging, slow, easily interrupted and easily killed. Just like Renegades Kalla's summoning skills. Those NPCs are actually good in PvE but in WvW/PvP, they are terrible in any way.Also the most noticeable about this skill like i said about skill 3... The cooldown. I mean really, WHAT is the point of saying the cooldown is 30 seconds. Lich form lasts 20 seconds and after that, you are going to be needing to wait for 2 minutes till the skill comes back. I just...don't get it.4. Skill nr. 5/Grim Specter: Another skill with a 30 second cooldown which i discussed for skill 4. The vitality gain is an interesting idea but also the amount of vitality you gain is not good and useless for fights. And then yet again life siphoning, something that has been completely forgotten with the scourge elite spec (for good reasons). Life siphoning with the entire necromancer class is really a letdown since 1: you'll receive (for example) 4k damage faster than the way you gain life via Life siphoning which makes siphoning worthless comparing to just gaining shades with scourge or damaging your enemy down faster than they can down you with reaper. And 2 : The life siphon damage is ALWAYS low, not mattering how glassy you are. Plus life siphon damage doesn't get increased with condition damage attribute.

Summon Flesh Golem: Oh my... every roaming reaper i see in WvW is running "Chilled to the Bone" and not this skill. Let me break it down and detail even more why this skill is considered to be very bad.

1. The way this minion "helps" the necro passively with it's low amount of damage and slow hits is laughable.
2. The minion, like any other minion, gets killed and CC'd easily. Plus, if the enemy in WvW/PvP gets the chance to hit the necro while the necro is around a corner of behind a wall, the flesh golem just literally runs towards the enemy (or even worse, a stacking zerg) only to be killed within a second. Nice. Now you wait 48 seconds to spawn another flesh golem which will be killed. Again.
3. The golem skill "Charge": The way the golem charges is WAY too slow when you design the skill to be set in a straight line. The cast time (pointing a finger for...3/4 second...i can't even) is easily interruptible.
4. 3 stacks of stability. For the golem. Why is an NPC that can barely hit the enemy in WvW/PvP the only minion to get stability while the other minions and the necromancer self can suffer with constant CC's?

In conclusion

Core necromancer is completely doomed in fights within WvW/PvP when it comes to using an elite, making the necromancer rely on everything but the elite skill.And in PvE, you'll just get advised to use reaper or scourge in fractals or raids since core necromancer is completely worthless being a DPS or Tank/Healer role. Combine those facts with having utterly TERRIBLE elite skills. I like playing Core necro, but one thing has never happened to me before with builds and play-styles in this game. Not knowing the best option to choose an elite skill due to all of the skills being bad.

Flesh golem is usually the main elite used in pve due to having CC on demand, as well acting as a mob distraction. Plus far lower cooldown than chilled to the bone. As its really only the CC effect you really need the flesh golem for.

And minionmaster is a very good solo pve build. Sure its not meant for raids or fractals.And ive heard of some people trying to combine summon madness with the death nova trait now that it works again. Though I think its hampered by the awful cd on lich form.

I agree on all fronts- and yeah the flesh golem IS bad in wvw/pvp asbolutely, but it is one of the only CC skills core necro has and it's specs don't provide a large amount of hard CC more than core does- so in PvE i'm gonna be taking it just for bar breaking power.

RIP any hard cc in competitive though.

Flesh golem is shit because of charge's cast time. What it should be is zero cast time for necro, some cast time for golem itself - kinda like scourge shades activation. That way you can activate it as a defensive measure when getting stomped yourself. An elite like this should provide that utility.

Plaguelands- i can imagine this being a major lol skill in wvw. Though i would not blame it too much on skill itself, more on rest of the necro kit not having enough ability to cage an opponent in. Like spectral ring fearing enemies away from you instead away from it's border, so enemies on the inside would be feared back into the center of the ring. Well there's always a knockdown from golem...oh wait...that's an elite too...

Lich form - forget WvW, this skill is shit almost any mode. First off one single stab stack ever 3s provides practically no protection vs getting chain cc'd in any competitive mode. Not to mention you become godzilla sized green spectre making yourself visible to the enemy even from space and announcing your readiness to get abused.Ok i'll give it some kudos for pvp mode. It does work well vs thieves, and if you pop it quickly enough in mid point zerg you can sustain quit a bit of pain with #5. But in WvW - oh boy, you'd be dead meat or just outranged/dodged if not straight up cc'd to death and killed.

The damage is ok in competitive but in PvE - forget it. Plaguelands are way better on condi build then lich is on power build. You basically would just pop that thing to get the self destructing minions casted and quickly pop out to get lf and stop losing dps.

Basically the whole core necro setup screams of "not enough hard cc to keep'em near, not enough anti cc, to keep myself up".

Plagueland: It's (another) area denial skill of the necromancer. Technically it's not a bad skill, especially if you take the corruption trait reducing it's CD to 80 seconds. ANet's design of the necromancer revolve pretty much always around the same things (an empowered transformation, heavy area denial, boon corruption... etc.), plagueland is pretty much a class defining skill.

Lich form: I agree that it's a joke of a skill, with a skillset which is also a joke of a skillset... Anyway, as much as I hate this elite skill, it's also a class defining skill.

Golem: It used to be worse in certain aspects and used to be better in anothers. The active skill isn't that bad and the minion tend to stay useful in PvE so...

This thread and my train of thought make me wonder if there is a correlation between elite specs and elite skills for the necromancer. Afterall, the first elite spec, reaper, is about a tranform mechanism with ties to life force like lich form, the second elite spec is all about area denial with ties to corruptions like plagueland and thus, maybe, the third e-spec could be all about a big crappy minion like golem.

Lich Form: No one uses transformations in this game, and for good reason. Elite transforms need to work more like Photon Forge, Tomes, etc. I don't understand why despite this being proven years ago that kits are the way to go for transformations, the elites still remain largely untouched. Top it off with this basically turning you into a giant floating green target on a very high cooldown and its even more useless.

Flesh Golem: I don't know, summons are really weak in this game and their only use is in PvE because enemies generally don't attack them. In competitive game modes there is no reason to ever summon anything except maybe a turret, because it all just dies before it can even attack. I'd like to see all summons removed from elites, they're okay as regular skills where they can have relatively low cooldowns.

Plaguelands would be better as a Well and not a Corruption, this way it would constantly give the Necro Protection and life drain for everyone standing in it for a long duration, which would make it be used for both offense and defense, and bring some merit back to it.

@Hannelore.8153 said:No one uses transformations in this game, and for good reason.

Rampage would like to have a word with you.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:No one uses transformations in this game, and for good reason.

One skill out of many..

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:No one uses transformations in this game, and for good reason.

Can anyone remind me why the old plague form transformation was changed to plaguelands?That was one of the worst changes in the history of necromancy imo.

remove the "elite skills are" and replace it with Is and you got a much more accurate title for this thread

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Can anyone remind me why the old plague form transformation was changed to plaguelands?That was one of the worst changes in the history of necromancy imo.

Because we were bleeding us to death with the corruption trait? Because we were asking ANet to change lich form from a transform to a non transform skill? (Yes, somehow ANet probably thought that by saying specifically lich form we meant Plagueform...) Or because "scourge" was in developpement and ANet thought that it would have been to similar with plagueform?

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Can anyone remind me why the old plague form transformation was changed to plaguelands?That was one of the worst changes in the history of necromancy imo.

Plague had low value. It did almost no damage, locked out all other skills, and was little more than a glorified Death Shroud. It had no mobility skills so people used it (sometimes) to wade into an enemy team and pulse blind. However, blind, poison, and bleed pulses was all it could do. No swiftness without using war horn prior. No boons but stability... It was weaksauce as if I cast Signet of Humility on myself. It did close to nothing if used right and was lucky but often it was a death sentence.

Plaguelands is far better in its maximum damage potential but is also purely an area denial skill with slowly increasing dps to allow easy counterplay.

Lich had its auto attack and stability nerfed or people would play it more.

Flesh Golem had its knockdown nerfed like other knockdowns of the time so it would not proc with damage multiple times when an opponent was cornered. Also in the nerfing was wall and gate damage, which also enjoyed multiple proc's.

Plague Lands: This is more of a PvE skill. Heck it has some uses in PvP as a capture point denial tool for a little while; the first pulse may not hurt much but the 6th pulse onwards can be quite crippling. After all this skill is not gonna be used in a bubble, the necro will still be attacking so more things are happening. In WvW, you would normally drop this when two zergs are fighting, where there's so much happening, people have a lesser change of noticing the AoE.

Lich Form: I may be one of the few players in this game that actually enjoys transformations, and I love the look of Lich Form. Problem is, as others have said, the ridiculously high cool down. However, I started using this over golem in PvE (most fracs and most raids even) because it offers more burst in the form of Summon Madness. Yes, a 2 and a half minute cool down for one skill, but used right Summon Madness does A LOT of damage. As much as I love this skill, I think it should be changed to Aura of the Lich where it pulses chill (3 seconds) on 5 enemies and 2 stab (3 seconds) on 5 allies every second for 10 seconds while also having the Summon Madness skill effect. Cooldown of 60 seconds. In terms of WvW (which I don't participate in apart from getting my Gift of Battles), I've seen core necros using this when roaming.

Flesh Golem: It may not be the most OP elite skill, but I think this is a solid skill for what it does. Cripples on attacks, decent health and tanking ability, knockdown on skill activation, and can hold aggro in open world. No you won't be using this in WvW really, but that's why there are better options out there for WvW.

@"Anchoku.8142" said:Plague had low value. It did almost no damage, locked out all other skills, and was little more than a glorified Death Shroud. It had no mobility skills so people used it (sometimes) to wade into an enemy team and pulse blind. However, blind, poison, and bleed pulses was all it could do. No swiftness without using war horn prior. No boons but stability... It was weaksauce as if I cast Signet of Humility on myself. It did close to nothing if used right and was lucky but often it was a death sentence.

Personnally, I valued plagueform more than lich form for a single reason: visibility. It's true that it was weak in "numbers" but at least it extended your survivability and when you had to look where you were steping to make the most out of the stability that it granted it was 100 time better than lich form ever has been.

Plaguelands is far better in its maximum damage potential but is also purely an area denial skill with slowly increasing dps to allow easy counterplay.

Yes indead, metrically, plagueland is better and is even "good" as an elite right now. In usefulness however, I'm still buying the old plagueform over this one.

Lich had its auto attack and stability nerfed or people would play it more.

Nope, people wouldn't play it more if it's attack and stability wasn't nerfed. Let's be realist, it's just to cluncky to use with to high of a CD to allow a bit more damage on the autoattack and 2 extra stacks of stability every 3 seconds to matter.

Flesh Golem had its knockdown nerfed like other knockdowns of the time so it would not proc with damage multiple times when an opponent was cornered. Also in the nerfing was wall and gate damage, which also enjoyed multiple proc's.

The pathing, AI and the fact that it can be used underwater is enough of a compensation for the knockdown nerf in my eyes.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Anchoku.8142" said:Plague had low value. It did almost no damage, locked out all other skills, and was little more than a glorified Death Shroud. It had no mobility skills so people used it (sometimes) to wade into an enemy team and pulse blind. However, blind, poison, and bleed pulses was all it could do. No swiftness without using war horn prior. No boons but stability... It was weaksauce as if I cast Signet of Humility on myself. It did close to nothing if used right and was lucky but often it was a death sentence.

Personnally, I valued plagueform more than lich form for a single reason: visibility. It's true that it was weak in "numbers" but at least it extended your survivability and when you had to look where you were steping to make the most out of the stability that it granted it was 100 time better than lich form ever has been.

Plaguelands is far better in its maximum damage potential but is also purely an area denial skill with slowly increasing dps to allow easy counterplay.

Yes indead, metrically,

plagueland

is better and is even "good" as an elite right now. In usefulness however, I'm still buying the old plagueform over this one.

Lich had its auto attack and stability nerfed or people would play it more.

Nope, people wouldn't play it more if it's attack and stability wasn't nerfed. Let's be realist, it's just to cluncky to use with to high of a CD to allow a bit more damage on the autoattack and 2 extra stacks of stability every 3 seconds to matter.

Flesh Golem had its knockdown nerfed like other knockdowns of the time so it would not proc with damage multiple times when an opponent was cornered. Also in the nerfing was wall and gate damage, which also enjoyed multiple proc's.

Lich is, indeed, a great big target saying, "Strip my stab and focus me!" Plague was more subtle than that but neither has mobility and, once focused and loaded with conditions, could easily become a bag when the transform ended, if not before. Originally, stability could not be removed and both transforms were at least reliable that way.

Changing Plague to Plaguelands completely changed its use. In a lot of ways, it is the missing elite well and I wish it was reclassified as one and used ground targeting.

I've also been playing Necro for many years and am primarily a solo or small scale player in WvW.

Though I agree that there could be better elites, I also think Lich Form and Plaguelands have an underestimated value.

First off, as a core Necro you should be trying your best to kite away from people at all times. This means abusing terrain, teleports and CC's be it Fear, Chill or Cripple.

Plaguelands being an extremely bursty condition elite makes it a good area denial skill to give you some breathing room. Dropping it in the middle of a giant open field isn't going to do anything for you, so you have to rely on forcing your opponent(s) through it with terrain or mind games. One trick I find that often works is using it to separate yourself from your opponent by dropping it between the two of you and fighting around it, going back inside of it when you've left Shroud. If your opponent is unwise, they'll chase in to the perimeter and take heavy condition spikes which you can follow up with Fear, more cover conditions or even "play dead" and pretend you're vulnerable so they over commit in the ring.

Lich Form is in a similar boat. It's more of a "mind game" elite used to scare your opponent to give you some breathing room. It can be a life saver scaring your opponent in to using defensive skills or backing off if you transform right after leaving Shroud when you're already under pressure. This can help you to buy time until you can reenter Shroud. It still hits hard and it still provides Stability, so it isn't complete garbage, you just have to use it at the right time. This is what makes both of them good ways to strengthen your kiting potential.

I'd like to see some better, or at least reworked elites for core as well, but one of things that has always drawn me to core is that it has so much more complexity than people give it credit for. Sure, the elites seem simple and bad, but in the right situations ( and not niche situations ) they're quite strong. You just have to think outside the box and remember the kind of emotional value these skills have on players that know what they're up against. Just as an example; everyone knows Lich isn't as scary as it used to be, but everyone still respects that it can hit like a truck too. You can use that kind of thing to your advantage.

@OPYou are playing dire or trailblazer core necromancer with 100% fear duration in wvw (at least yesterday you did) and that build is blatantly easy and strong. I have absolutely no idea why you are complaining about anything.

Plaguelands is an area denial skill, when your target tries to melee burst you after you left shroud. He either has to stay in that condi bomb and when he doesn't you will overload him with staff marks and corrupts locking him down. It's extremely difficult to melee all that vitality and toughness when you constantly cripple, chill and corrupt stability to endless fears. You don't have that many counters.

Chilled to the Bone isn't a better elite in general, it's just better for power builds. Only core power necros don't have a viable elite skill.

I'd love for "Grim Specter" to be changed so it can replace lich form and "Summon Madness" to be replace the flesh golem (or bone minions).

@"killfil.3472" said:I'd love for "Grim Specter" to be changed so it can replace lich form

Yep, that would be wonderful.

and "Summon Madness" to be replace the flesh golem (or bone minions).

Truth be told I'd love serpent siphon to work like Summon madness or, to be more specific, in between summon madness and "Rise!". Summoning ghastly serpent per foe hit that go kamikaze to explode near their foe, removing a boon and leaving the barrier bundle.

@"KurokawaKazuma.8641" said:Having played and loved core necro for more than 5 years in WvW and PvE, there was always one thing bothering me about this class not mattering what build i am playing with core necro. The elite skills...They are shortly said very... very terrible and outdated in my honest opinion. Especially in WvW roaming, i haven't even experienced one moment where i am thankful of pulling off an elite skill with necromancer.

basically the elite necro skills right now

Plaguelands: Let me just start with what i am considering the worst elite skill in the entire game. In PvE it may seem useful but looking at the cooldown... it's 2 minutes. The cooldown is WAY too high for a skill that (flaw nr. 2) is literally just a tiny 240 radius AoE field where people in will in WvW/PvP will either just move around it, cleanse every condi it gives slowly while typing /dance very gently and slowly (since even roaming classes can cleanse condis more than guardians before HoT...) or laugh at it (while cleansing the conditions of course). For PvP and WvW, this skill seems like it's supposed to be used on enemies who magically get hit by a 20 second immobilize that cant be cleansed, while in reality, people can just avoid a 240 radius as if they aren't mobs.

Lich Form: I almost considered this even worse than Plaguelands due to it's 2,5 minute cooldown. Are.You.Kidding me... Holosmiths have the Prime Light Beam that is well animated to be easily dodged with a perfect 60 second cooldown. If you hit with that skill as a Holosmith, you'll place down AoE in a straight line and launch + heavily damage the enemy. A good but not overpowered elite skill in my opinion. Lich form is just unbelievably slow, gimmicky and surprisingly pretty much lowers your defence (like cleanse, self protection application, lack of death's carapace). The only good thing about lich form is the high damage auto-attack which is actually more beneficial in PvP and WvW than in PvE (where honestly if you want to be a good DPS player with necro, just choose reaper or scourge). But that is just one skill out of the other 4 lackluster skills lich form offers for 20 seconds.1. Skill nr. 2/Lich's Gaze: This skill is a bit weird. Yes you could just spam this skill constantly while casting other skills, it is a bit useless in terms of damage output (i'd wanna trade for higher cooldown in favor of higher damage of Lich's Gaze) and the conditions you are putting out : 2 seconds of cripple and 10 seconds of 1 stack of vulnerability. On paper, the 2 seconds of cripple spam might seem useful, but comparing that vision with what i have experienced in WvW, it is the complete opposite. Firebrands being able to cleanse while playing blindfolded. Warriors benefiting from it by gaining regeneration on cripple (from the defence trait). Mirages dancing around you as you are in Lich Form, making it difficult to use this skill.2. Skill nr. 3/Ripple of Terror: This skill only benefits the Terror trait and using it before continuously auto-attacking. Shadow-stepping is not much of a use since the rest of the lich form skills aren't fast and none of em are melee related, which could be of good use (if the skill deals good damage). Another point i will use yet again for skill 4 and 5 is the cooldown for this skill. 15 seconds while lasting only 20 seconds in Lich Form. Meaning you could only use this skill twice, risking if the enemy will also luckily/spam(daredevil) dodge the skill or have 10 stacks of stability with just one press on a button. I don't want this skill to be a horrendous spam-skill, but reducing the cooldown + reducing 2 seconds of fear, while maintaining the ability to shadow-step would be awesome.3. Skill nr. 4/Summon Madness: The idea of this skill is pretty good. The cast time is on the other side is pretty bad. And considering that the movement-speed of the enemy players are always faster than the spawned minions that can be easily killed by almost any AoE and cleave, makes this skill a little useless. So yet again it's the same reason why no necromancer plays the minion build as endgame in PvE or WvW/PvE. Minions are low damaging, slow, easily interrupted and easily killed. Just like Renegades Kalla's summoning skills. Those NPCs are actually good in PvE but in WvW/PvP, they are terrible in any way.Also the most noticeable about this skill like i said about skill 3... The cooldown. I mean really, WHAT is the point of saying the cooldown is 30 seconds. Lich form lasts 20 seconds and after that, you are going to be needing to wait for 2 minutes till the skill comes back. I just...don't get it.4. Skill nr. 5/Grim Specter: Another skill with a 30 second cooldown which i discussed for skill 4. The vitality gain is an interesting idea but also the amount of vitality you gain is not good and useless for fights. And then yet again life siphoning, something that has been completely forgotten with the scourge elite spec (for good reasons). Life siphoning with the entire necromancer class is really a letdown since 1: you'll receive (for example) 4k damage faster than the way you gain life via Life siphoning which makes siphoning worthless comparing to just gaining shades with scourge or damaging your enemy down faster than they can down you with reaper. And 2 : The life siphon damage is ALWAYS low, not mattering how glassy you are. Plus life siphon damage doesn't get increased with condition damage attribute.

Summon Flesh Golem: Oh my... every roaming reaper i see in WvW is running "Chilled to the Bone" and not this skill. Let me break it down and detail even more why this skill is considered to be very bad.

1. The way this minion "helps" the necro passively with it's low amount of damage and slow hits is laughable.
2. The minion, like any other minion, gets killed and CC'd easily. Plus, if the enemy in WvW/PvP gets the chance to hit the necro while the necro is around a corner of behind a wall, the flesh golem just literally runs towards the enemy (or even worse, a stacking zerg) only to be killed within a second. Nice. Now you wait 48 seconds to spawn another flesh golem which will be killed. Again.
3. The golem skill "Charge": The way the golem charges is WAY too slow when you design the skill to be set in a straight line. The cast time (pointing a finger for...3/4 second...i can't even) is easily interruptible.
4. 3 stacks of stability. For the golem. Why is an NPC that can barely hit the enemy in WvW/PvP the only minion to get stability while the other minions and the necromancer self can suffer with constant CC's?

In conclusion

Core necromancer is completely doomed in fights within WvW/PvP when it comes to using an elite, making the necromancer rely on everything but the elite skill.And in PvE, you'll just get advised to use reaper or scourge in fractals or raids since core necromancer is completely worthless being a DPS or Tank/Healer role. Combine those facts with having utterly TERRIBLE elite skills. I like playing Core necro, but one thing has never happened to me before with builds and play-styles in this game. Not knowing the best option to choose an elite skill due to all of the skills being bad.

All true and ignore anyone saying otherwise.

If you think Flesh Golem bad, then you have no idea about what you are talking about. Its the best of the core set, and very useful.

@LucianDK.8615 said:If you think Flesh Golem bad, then you have no idea about what you are talking about. Its the best of the core set, and very useful.

Just because other core options are trash doesn't make it top tier. But i do agree that golem is an ok option for small scale fights or PvE.

@Jethro.9376 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:If you think Flesh Golem bad, then you have no idea about what you are talking about. Its the best of the core set, and very useful.

So perhaps you should not decry every elite, when they could shine in other gamemodes beside wvw/pvp. Different purposes and usefulness.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Can anyone remind me why the old plague form transformation was changed to plaguelands?That was one of the worst changes in the history of necromancy imo.

Probably just because of scourage. Imagine being supper tanky while being able to cast instant shades, which would probably work while transformed and healed by fb.

And flesh golem in pvp also gives you lf before game starts, so thats also a bonus :+1: