Hard to land hard CC skills probably don't need a .01 coefficient

But, what are hard to land hard cc skills?

Crab Fear me boy, i know you must be as bored as i am.But its only 2 more days of waiting.

But let me add to this:

Warrior Burst with Hard CC on them should not be 0.01.

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:But, what are hard to land hard cc skills?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Rockets -- Really high, long arc. Unpredictable flight path if enemy is more than 300 range away.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb -- Three second countdown timer, very visible and easy to avoidhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Shock -- 180 range, single target stun for 2s with a cast time of 3/4 of a second and a very visible tell.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch_Personal_Battering_Ram -- Slow moving projectile with no tracking and a 1s dazehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_Battering_Ram -- 130 range, single target launch, 1/4s activation time, probably the most likely of this bunch to land. But they're extremely close range -- point blank.

The damage nerf on all of these is basically rendering them more unusable than they were before (because you know, you saw these ALL the time in PvP. /s)

@Crab Fear.1624 said:But, what are hard to land hard cc skills?

Just example heavy classes:All warrior hammer skills.Rev drop hammer, surge of the mist and glint elite.Guardian deflection shot, hammer 4, spectral hammer. Dragon maw, they should have removed the CC not the damage.

This was already mentioned before. Some CCs needed damage removal. Others needed removal of the CC. Lower duration. Longer CD. Longer cast time). Removal of Evasion or being Unblockable (if applicable). Just removing the damage is lazy and uninspired work. Which summarizes this vanity project patch.

Ranger axe 4

Make holo ult great again. Imagine getting hit by a gigantic laser beam for 17 damage :'(

@ellesee.8297 said:Make holo ult great again. Imagine getting hit by a gigantic laser beam for 17 damage :'(1200 unblockable cc hitting everything on its way and leaving dps field (ofc I know about heat)? Well deserved I'd say

Although I dropped holo a while back the damage nerf to prime light is unfair with that cast time. And now especially with less stab its easy to interrupt a 3 sec cast.

The only thing that matters is 130 range. That’s hard to land. So just Warrior to be honest.

Midrange and anything higher is just super ez to land. It’s quite funny actually people always say Warrior is easy to play but the reality is it’s far harder when it comes to landing hits, the only weapons most people are able to actually use on Warrior are tracking weapon skills, which says a lot.

Anyway the hardest CC to land is Backbreaker.

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:The only thing that matters is 130 range. That’s hard to land. So just Warrior to be honest.

Midrange and anything higher is just super ez to land. It’s quite funny actually people always say Warrior is easy to play but the reality is it’s far harder when it comes to landing hits, the only weapons most people are able to actually use on Warrior are tracking weapon skills, which says a lot.

Anyway the hardest CC to land is Backbreaker.

the hardest hard CC to land is DH lb3 since it's a ground targeting skill. You have to foresee where the target moves and most of the time fails ( vs bigbrain players). not to mention they are gonna decrease the projectile speed : pepelaugh:

@"Xervite.5493" said:Although I dropped holo a while back the damage nerf to prime light is unfair with that cast time. And now especially with less stab its easy to interrupt a 3 sec cast.

1.25s cast but who's counting. It's not overly hard to land.

In my opinion, a medium duration launch & small Area CC is not that "Elite" even if it's long range and can leave a field.

The damage chunk was what made this skill always useful to land. Now the skill will be nullified completely by a stunbreak or a random stability, it's not very elite.

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Midrange and anything higher is just super ez to land. It’s quite funny actually people always say Warrior is easy to play but the reality is it’s far harder when it comes to landing hits, the only weapons most people are able to actually use on Warrior are tracking weapon skills, which says a lot.

Go ahead and use Rocket Turret's overcharge or Launch Personal Battering Ram at a moving target. The projectiles on these things are so slow that you can run at roughly the same speed as them, making them substantially easier to avoid than a melee CC.

Hard to land comes in 2 varieties, one requires some sort of relatively precise positioning or manual aiming the other has an obvious tell thus making it easy to avoid and thus requires keeping track of enemy defenses or the element of surprise to land. For instance using two skills from revenant as an example, a good surge of the mists (good meaning landing at least 7 out of 9 hits) requires casting the skill quite close to the target even by melee skill standards yet not too close and requires you to be facing directly into the target, if your angle is even a little off they will slide off to the side and the skill will do pathetic damage, however until it gets its wind up on Tuesday (there will also be almost no incentive for landing a good surge of the mists over a crappy glancing one come Tuesday which is incredibly lame in my opinion) it doesn't really have a tell for the user on the receiving end other than the rev is in staff in close range facing them directly. Jade Winds on the other hand hits in a huge area making it extremely forgiving on hitting targets that don't actively avoid it, however with a 1 second cast time plus obvious audio and visual telegraphs, it is quite easy to react to and avoid this skill so if you want to land it you need to make sure the enemy has already wasted all their defenses.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Midrange and anything higher is just super ez to land. It’s quite funny actually people always say Warrior is easy to play but the reality is it’s far harder when it comes to landing hits, the only weapons most people are able to actually use on Warrior are tracking weapon skills, which says a lot.

If you use them max range sure, but it's a lot harder to avoid if you use it mid range. Backbreaker pretty much requires you stand inside of your enemy to hit them. Not saying Backbreaker is absurdly hard to land, I'm just saying that ANY range even on a slow moving projectile is easier to land than a skill with no capability of range. Even using Launch Personal Battering Ram at 130 range is going to be easier to land than Backbreaker because they're more likely to get caught by the slightly extended range if they try moving off. You can literally just walk away from some 130 range CC.

My opinion on CC skills that are deserving of keeping their damage coefficients, straight up, no nerfs at all, any nerfs are completely unacceptable:

• Backbreaker, Skull Crack, Headbutt, Banish, Wild Blow, Personal Battering Ram, Static Shock (A.E.D Toolbelt), Rocket Turret, Gale Strike.

There's a second list of CC skills that should be only nerfed by 33% damage coefficient nerf like everything else. However, many of these skills were reduced in cooldown or improved in other ways to account for the damage getting completely removed - those improvements would possibly have to be reverted too for fairness.

• Staggering Blow, Earthshaker, Rifle Butt, Kick, Binding Blade, Bane Signet, Dragon's Maw, Drop the Hammer, Temporal Rift, Jade Winds, Chaotic Release, Path of Scars, Hook Strike, Palm Strike, Holographic Shockwave, Big Ol' Bomb, Blast Gyro, Supply Crate, Prime Light Beam, Gravity Well, Executioner's Scythe, Flesh Golem Charge, Chilled To The Bone, Earthquake, Tornado, Tailored Victory.

And of course, the remainder of the CC Skills I'm perfectly fine with them losing their damage based on their current state, or future buffs like Throw Mine:

• Shield Bash, Bulls Charge, Heated Rebuke, Daring Challenge, Blazing Edge, Ranger Pet CC, Point Blank Shot, Overcharged Shot, Throw Mine (buffed to remove 3 boons), and many many others that were already easy to land/didn't do much damage to begin with.

Edit:

• I would say the first list share a common criteria: SUPER Hard to land and probably should be buffed instead of nerfed.
• Second list criteria: Either point-blank range, VERY well telegraphed, Elite Skill, or damage is by far the main feature.
• Third list criteria: super easy to land, hardly telegraphed or no telegraph, does other things well besides CC.

@Chaith.8256 said:My opinion on CC skills that are deserving of keeping their damage coefficients, straight up, no nerfs at all, any nerfs are completely unacceptable:

• Backbreaker, Skull Crack, Headbutt, Banish, Wild Blow, Personal Battering Ram, Static Shock (A.E.D Toolbelt), Rocket Turret, Gale Strike.

There's a second list of CC skills that should be only nerfed by 33% damage coefficient nerf like everything else. However, many of these skills were reduced in cooldown or improved in other ways to account for the damage getting completely removed - those improvements would possibly have to be reverted too for fairness.

• Staggering Blow, Earthshaker, Rifle Butt, Kick, Binding Blade, Bane Signet, Dragon's Maw, Drop the Hammer, Temporal Rift, Jade Winds, Chaotic Release, Path of Scars, Hook Strike, Palm Strike, Holographic Shockwave, Big Ol' Bomb, Blast Gyro, Supply Crate, Prime Light Beam, Gravity Well, Executioner's Scythe, Flesh Golem Charge, Chilled To The Bone, Earthquake, Tornado, Tailored Victory.

And of course, the remainder of the CC Skills I'm perfectly fine with them losing their damage based on their current state, or future buffs like Throw Mine:

• Shield Bash, Bulls Charge, Heated Rebuke, Daring Challenge, Blazing Edge, Ranger Pet CC, Point Blank Shot, Overcharged Shot, Throw Mine (buffed to remove 3 boons), and many many others that were already easy to land/didn't do much damage to begin with.

Edit:

• I would say the first list share a common criteria: SUPER Hard to land and probably should be buffed instead of nerfed.
• Second list criteria: Either point-blank range, VERY well telegraphed, Elite Skill, or damage is by far the main feature.
• Third list criteria: super easy to land, hardly telegraphed or no telegraph, does other things well besides CC.

This is a fantastic post. Listen to this guy Anet he knows what he’s talking about.

@Odik.4587 said:

@ellesee.8297 said:Make holo ult great again. Imagine getting hit by a gigantic laser beam for 17 damage :'(1200 unblockable cc hitting everything on its way and leaving dps field (ofc I know about heat)? Well deserved I'd say

Or remove the CC and not make unblockable?

Gonna be super fun watching Thief pistol 4 be a better skill than Prime light beam for a while.

Nothing in GW2 is "hard to hit." The most commonly used builds are only commonly used because they generally have a lot of built-in, passive mitigation against damage and effects. Everyone in GW2 constantly hits each other without any effort at all; it's just that many of these hits and effects are effortlessly negated, mostly just leading to frustration and passivity. If anything, people complaining about entire weapon sets being invalidated by shifting CC-inflicting attack skills down to a (0.1) or (0.01) damage modifier is the result of terrible fundamental design practices. Hard CC alone is a brutal effect: denying one or more players from actively participating in a game for a fixed period of time. Considering how easy it is to inflict hard CC in a baseline situation with no modifications (i.e. 1 skill vs a target), the former devs of GW2 (long-gone bodies from 2008-2014) decided that the best way to mitigate the ease of hitting opponents was more or less to make it so that a whole bunch of these hits just "didn't count." That was supposed to justify the fact that hard CC often came part and parcel with brutal amounts of damage and follow-up bursts.

So, considering how this new direction for GW2's PvP combat is generally a lot healthier for combat exchanges than how it was designed from the outset, the best way forward, rather than complaining that arbitrary weapons are now entirely ruined because they have too much baked-in hard CC, it'd be best to just suggest dramatic changes to these sets in order to give them a different functionality other than "Haha, I'm pressing my buttons, and now [Player A] can't play the game."

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:Midrange and anything higher is just super ez to land. It’s quite funny actually people always say Warrior is easy to play but the reality is it’s far harder when it comes to landing hits, the only weapons most people are able to actually use on Warrior are tracking weapon skills, which says a lot.

Launch personal battering ram is a 1 second daze. Even assuming you use it in melee range, it won't do you that much good, lol.

And it (and rocket turret) will likely miss at midrange too. You have to use them point blank for a decent chance of hitting.

@"Swagg.9236" said:Nothing in GW2 is "hard to hit."

Rocket would like a word with you.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Swagg.9236" said:Nothing in GW2 is "hard to hit."

You don't aim that skill. It just doesn't track, and it moves slower than players most days. Since you don't have the option of manually aiming it or placing its destination, it's beyond the realm of "easy or hard to hit."

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Nothing in GW2 is "hard to hit."

huh? You do manually place its destination. You have to manually aim it with a 6 second delay at max range. He's got you there tbh

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Nothing in GW2 is "hard to hit."

October 2013: This skill is now ground targeted.You can tell how long I've since forgone the turret engie memes. That said, it feels like you're REALLY, REEEAAAALLLY STREEETCHING here for an example to my contrary if you're resorting to the engineer Rocket toolbelt skill considering how Rocket Turret is just not a thing that people use. Moreover, with a 240 radius, if all you're looking for is a hit, there's almost no way that you'll miss this if you're fighting on a point. It's going to force an evade/block or something, but, as I've said before, those are technically hit confirms that are just negated because Anet thought it would be best to go the frustrating passive route with combat design rather than really designing skills based on timing, movement and aim. Granted, considering how GW2 is built on GW1's engine (one which was already quite clunky--despite its innovative skill, class, and progression designs--when that game launched).

So, yes, while he's got me, it's a super cherry-picked call out that nobody considers a valid skill at any point right now anyway. Now how about you talk about meta build CC and how difficult that is to hit?

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Nothing in GW2 is "hard to hit."

Easy does it, just having a bit of fun. No skills are hard to land for the Swagg.9236 man

u probably dont play warrior dont u