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Time to bring down the Nerf hammer on guardian

Tyse the Black.6789

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Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

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otto.5684

otto.5684

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Before the March patch FB had absolute dominance over core. But after the patch, core burn could win against FB. I rarely sPvP (or play GW2) anymore, but I lately only ran core burn, and zeal FB, especially running menders, deals close to no damage. Though I ran sage, and off hand mace /shield and sword/torch. It is not a strong build, but strong against builds like zeal FB.

Regardless, core is mediocre in PvP. Core burn has damage, but it is very lacking otherwise. Power, core or DH are pretty poor.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

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Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

Good point. I’ve seen some seriously crappy builds actually outplay builds that are supposed to be easy mode based solely the player build. Had a friend actually run around naked in wvw and still beat peeps.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

Good point. I’ve seen some seriously crappy builds actually outplay builds that are supposed to be easy mode based solely the player build. Had a friend actually run around naked in wvw and still beat peeps.

Yep, it all depends.

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otto.5684

otto.5684

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

In these discussions, it is presumed that players are on equal skill footing.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@otto.5684 said:

@"cryorion.9532" said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

In these discussions, it is presumed that players are on equal skill footing.

Never the case though. Even then FB has a larger kit of tricks to pull from. This is a case of "on paper" vs "in reality". On paper a Pathfinder Wizard is OP af, but in reality a Pathfinder Fighter is more versatile, its the same case here. The amount of extra utility in the form of sustain, CC, and dps that FB gains from Tomes would give a FB the edge over an equally skilled core guardian.

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Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"cryorion.9532" said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

In these discussions, it is presumed that players are on equal skill footing.

Never the case though. Even then FB has a larger kit of tricks to pull from. This is a case of "on paper" vs "in reality". On paper a Pathfinder Wizard is OP af, but in reality a Pathfinder Fighter is more versatile, its the same case here. The amount of extra utility in the form of sustain, CC, and dps that FB gains from Tomes would give a FB the edge over an equally skilled core guardian.

I play guardian quite a bit and have to disagree with you. If I’m going to dps, I’m going to Core, regardless of utility and I do much better at it.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@"cryorion.9532" said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

In these discussions, it is presumed that players are on equal skill footing.

Never the case though. Even then FB has a larger kit of tricks to pull from. This is a case of "on paper" vs "in reality". On paper a Pathfinder Wizard is OP af, but in reality a Pathfinder Fighter is more versatile, its the same case here. The amount of extra utility in the form of sustain, CC, and dps that FB gains from Tomes would give a FB the edge over an equally skilled core guardian.

I play guardian quite a bit and have to disagree with you. If I’m going to dps, I’m going to Core, regardless of utility and I do much better at it.

Then that is what works for you. I'd go Burn DH myself, I find the long duration block on F3 is better for me and allows cover for the elite signet, or for better face tanking while laying down lava on the floor.

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Lonewolf Kai.3682

Lonewolf Kai.3682

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"cryorion.9532" said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

In these discussions, it is presumed that players are on equal skill footing.

Never the case though. Even then FB has a larger kit of tricks to pull from. This is a case of "on paper" vs "in reality". On paper a Pathfinder Wizard is OP af, but in reality a Pathfinder Fighter is more versatile, its the same case here. The amount of extra utility in the form of sustain, CC, and dps that FB gains from Tomes would give a FB the edge over an equally skilled core guardian.

I play guardian quite a bit and have to disagree with you. If I’m going to dps, I’m going to Core, regardless of utility and I do much better at it.

Then that is what works for you. I'd go Burn DH myself, I find the long duration block on F3 is better for me and allows cover for the elite signet, or for better face tanking while laying down lava on the floor.

I meant FB vs. Core, based on your post I was quoting.

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Lan Deathrider.5910

Lan Deathrider.5910

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@"cryorion.9532" said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

FB should lose some offense and DH should lose some defense.

Don’t they pretty much already do that?Not really, and that is the problem. You can seriously argue that that they've lost nothing for what they've gained.

So you would run dps on a FB vs Core dps?

You can. Symbol Brand is a thing you know. FB has more things in its kit than a core guardian does.

Core heavily outweighs FB for dps though. Sure you can do FB dps, but not like Core.

And FB brings more CC to lock core into the symbols. Raw DPS numbers are not the end all be all of what wins a fight.

And I know several Core guardians that chew up competent symbolbrands for breakfast. No, dps doesn’t win the day, it’s the player behind it. This Still doesn’t change what I said earlier.

Competent players bet non competent players regardless of spec. A FB can kill core and vice versa depending on their skill.

In these discussions, it is presumed that players are on equal skill footing.

Never the case though. Even then FB has a larger kit of tricks to pull from. This is a case of "on paper" vs "in reality". On paper a Pathfinder Wizard is OP af, but in reality a Pathfinder Fighter is more versatile, its the same case here. The amount of extra utility in the form of sustain, CC, and dps that FB gains from Tomes would give a FB the edge over an equally skilled core guardian.

I play guardian quite a bit and have to disagree with you. If I’m going to dps, I’m going to Core, regardless of utility and I do much better at it.

Then that is what works for you. I'd go Burn DH myself, I find the long duration block on F3 is better for me and allows cover for the elite signet, or for better face tanking while laying down lava on the floor.

I meant FB vs. Core, based on your post I was quoting.

I know, is was stating my personal preference there. FB may have a very versatile kit, one that frankly deserves more of a trade-off, I still prefer DH of the three specs.

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quaniesan.8497

quaniesan.8497

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@Tyse the Black.6789 said:Guardian (core, dragonhunter and firebrand) has been meta defining for too long. Most automated tournament teams have 2-3 guardians and guardian is why the super boring WvW pirateship meta works so well. Too much aegis spam (sometimes without having a to even press anything) is a common theme in all 3 iterations and too much block chain when considered alongside the highly mobile burst potential (of both power and Condi). The arguments for guardian being so OP for a long time have been so that it checks a bunch of different builds, most of which have now been culled. It's guardians turn

I reported this post for non-constructive and trolling.

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otto.5684

otto.5684

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@Josiah.2967 said:I see new people all the times looking at recommended group composition for raids.6 Guardians - Vale7 Guardians - Gors6 Guardians - Sab

Even the raids where Guardians aren't the ideal raid composition, they are still competitive.

That is only due to one skill though. Since you can slot additional dps while maintaining 100% uptime for quickness.

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Shiyo.3578

Shiyo.3578

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Guardian isn't overpowered, it's just the only well designed class. It's good in all forms of content with multiple builds and feels good to play everywhere.

It's almost like other classes have always been in an awful state and randomly bad in forms of content or feel outright bad to play so people play the best feeling class.

This is memey to say, but every other class needs to be buffed to guardians level. Ranger and engineer are almost there but the rest are far, far, far behind. Warrior was getting there but now is bad in PvP - ele was there early HOT/early vanilla but then they gutted it in every game mode and is now very unfun.

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otto.5684

otto.5684

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@Shiyo.3578 said:Guardian isn't overpowered, it's just the only well designed class. It's good in all forms of content with multiple builds and feels good to play everywhere.

It's almost like other classes have always been in an awful state and randomly bad in forms of content or feel outright bad to play so people play the best feeling class.

This is memey to say, but every other class needs to be buffed to guardians level. Ranger and engineer are almost there but the rest are far, far, far behind. Warrior was getting there but now is bad in PvP - ele was there early HOT/early vanilla but then they gutted it in every game mode and is now very unfun.

Is that in PvE or PvP? PvE I 100% agree. Guardian has great flexibility and viability. PvP, hell no. Everything but zeal symbolist FB is subpar. And even that build is on the weaker side.

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Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

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I would love quickness removed from FB, maybe some cleanse burn towards non stack able barrier(IMO barrier needs to stop stacking from all classes).give the quickness to chrono instead(anything that helps reduce or increase timers/cd/atkspeed on alies or target should come from that spec ).

@otto.5684IMO it doesnt make any sense core guardian be a condi burster, condi burst should not even exist and Firebrand should be the stronger burn spamming guardian had access to.

DH is poor class cause was designed initially to carry very bad players with daze on traps and mass damage on some traps(2 traps could kill 5 players in 2-3 seconds and they would be perma dazed for that time with the elite being a cc there was no escape if one would not pre dodge trap activation, stiull daze coul even it after the dodge), DH is a lost design/concept in this game., kinda feel dev's thrrow random stuff when designing classes rather than be objective towards the gameplay and their effect in the game.

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Ghos.1326

Ghos.1326

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I'm not a Guardian main, but here is the issue I see with Guardian in terms of the burning.Permeating WrathVirtue of Justice's passive triggers more quickly and now burns in an area.Burning (4s): 524 DamageNumber of Attacks to Trigger: 3Number of Targets: 5Radius: 240

It only takes 3 attacks to trigger the passive Justice effect. That's way too little. Originally, it's 5, and even that is way too little.I'd change it to originally take 10 attacks to trigger, and then decrease it when traited to only take 7 attacks to trigger.

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otto.5684

otto.5684

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@Aeolus.3615 in PvE FB has stronger condi output in terms of both raw power and speed of burn application, than core. In sPvP core has stronger burn application due to having only 1 condi to apply, with zero cover. If you make the damage slower core condi becomes obsolete. And honestly, core condi was not a competitive build (heck, not even viable till recently) since HoT release. Sure, I can eat G2 players and below, but is mediocre skilled players now the balance standard?

As for DH, I would argue it had a coherent design for PvP, but the execution was always botched. You kite, pull enemies into traps and root them. Not bad conceptually. But instantly killing enemies at HoT release and the CC spam was terrible and over powered design. Removing the CC without compensation made it a no go in PvP. It had its viability improved last year, due to DS improved damage, and most PoF power creep being brought back inline. The Feb 2020 patch completely killed any viability it has in sPvP. LB went from okay weapon to unusable. DH in PvE is (and always has) core power + power creep. I would like to see the damage being re-arranged in a way where core is equally powerful in PvE (with less burst but around equal damage), but this requires through redesign. It is not going to happen.

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RUNICBLACK.7630

RUNICBLACK.7630

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@Ghos.1326 said:I'm not a Guardian main, but here is the issue I see with Guardian in terms of the burning.Permeating WrathVirtue of Justice's passive triggers more quickly and now burns in an area.Burning (4s): 524 DamageNumber of Attacks to Trigger: 3Number of Targets: 5Radius: 240

It only takes 3 attacks to trigger the passive Justice effect. That's way too little. Originally, it's 5, and even that is way too little.I'd change it to originally take 10 attacks to trigger, and then decrease it when traited to only take 7 attacks to trigger.

That is kind of flawed because you not taking into consideration the fact that most of our weapon attacks do not apply conditions on their own outside of Vulnerability (and that only if traited) along with the fact that because guards don't have access to nor the ability to easily apply many other conditions it is generally much easier to clear the burning we apply when compared to classes that can easily apply 3 or more conditions types in a sequence of attacks. You should also take a closer look at how many stacks of burning a guard can get from any one attack and it's duration in comparison to other classes. If they were to do what you are suggesting they would have make adjustments in those areas also. I'm not saying the guard doesn't have it's strengths but we aren't anywhere even remotely unmatched or over powered in competitive game play particularly in pvp

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draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

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@Aeolus.3615 said:I would love quickness removed from FB, maybe some cleanse burn towards non stack able barrier(IMO barrier needs to stop stacking from all classes).give the quickness to chrono instead(anything that helps reduce or increase timers/cd/atkspeed on alies or target should come from that spec ).

@otto.5684IMO it doesnt make any sense core guardian be a condi burster, condi burst should not even exist and Firebrand should be the stronger burn spamming guardian had access to.

DH is poor class cause was designed initially to carry very bad players with daze on traps and mass damage on some traps(2 traps could kill 5 players in 2-3 seconds and they would be perma dazed for that time with the elite being a cc there was no escape if one would not pre dodge trap activation, stiull daze coul even it after the dodge), DH is a lost design/concept in this game., kinda feel dev's thrrow random stuff when designing classes rather than be objective towards the gameplay and their effect in the game.

I came straight from a thread in the revenant forum where you proposed 'fixing' renegade by removing alacrity.

ArenaNet broke the chrono monopoly deliberately. They don't want any single profession to be indispensable for high-end PvE.

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Ghos.1326

Ghos.1326

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@RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:I'm not a Guardian main, but here is the issue I see with Guardian in terms of the burning.Permeating WrathVirtue of Justice's passive triggers more quickly and now burns in an area.Burning (4s): 524 DamageNumber of Attacks to Trigger: 3Number of Targets: 5Radius: 240

It only takes 3 attacks to trigger the passive Justice effect. That's way too little. Originally, it's 5, and even that is way too little.I'd change it to originally take 10 attacks to trigger, and then decrease it when traited to only take 7 attacks to trigger.

That is kind of flawed because you not taking into consideration the fact that most of our weapon attacks do not apply conditions on their own outside of Vulnerability (and that only if traited) along with the fact that because guards don't have access to nor the ability to easily apply many other conditions it is generally much easier to clear the burning we apply when compared to classes that can easily apply 3 or more conditions types in a sequence of attacks. You should also take a closer look at how many stacks of burning a guard can get from any one attack and it's duration in comparison to other classes. If they were to do what you are suggesting they would have make adjustments in those areas also. I'm not saying the guard doesn't have it's strengths but we aren't anywhere even remotely unmatched or over powered in competitive game play particularly in pvp

I'll come back with a rebuttal after I'm off work. I already see some flaws in your response.

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crazyhusky.2985

crazyhusky.2985

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@Ghos.1326 said:I'm not a Guardian main, but here is the issue I see with Guardian in terms of the burning.Permeating WrathVirtue of Justice's passive triggers more quickly and now burns in an area.Burning (4s): 524 DamageNumber of Attacks to Trigger: 3Number of Targets: 5Radius: 240

It only takes 3 attacks to trigger the passive Justice effect. That's way too little. Originally, it's 5, and even that is way too little.I'd change it to originally take 10 attacks to trigger, and then decrease it when traited to only take 7 attacks to trigger.

Thats a really bad idea. Due to the way guardian functions.Guardian has burning built into it, So its most of weapons don't have any form of condition, allowing for it to use most weapons and still burn unlike other classes.Condi for Guardian is literally just burning, it doesn't get access multiple damaging conditions like poison, torment or confusion unlike many other classes.The Other damaging condition for guardian is bleed but that bleed is literally on 1 skill which is the Axe, so you have to go Firebrand to even use it. Even then Scepter and Sword just better for fighting people with. If you do have a simple condi cleanse its as not hard to stop a guardian's condi as it mostly burning and vuluneability, Unlike a nerco or rev who can do many annoying conditions.

Increasing the amount attacks to trigger the passive Justice effect wouldn't just nerf Permeating Wrath, it would impact the whole of guardian, as there are few a traits that use the passive Justice activion. I feel that doing that would hurt guardian in general and it cause more people to use as support class, and then you'd get annoyed that there too many support guardians.10 attacks to trigger the passive is way too much. You need to think about the versions of guardian too. Right now the passive works, fine.Guardian Symbols pulse 5 times, so If you don't have Permeating Wrath then symbols only activate the Justice's passive to only once. If you have Zeal traitline you'll get it twice.and Permeating Wrath makes activate 3 times without zeal and 4 with the Zeal traitline.

Keeping the Justice's passive at 5 would be better but changing Permeating Wrath to activate on 4 hits rather than 3 hit, nerfs it a bit but still keeps it somewhat useable.For example the sword of justice hits 4 times. Meaning the Guardian will have it would have to hit ALL 4 attacks from the sword, so you dodge out of it in time, then they won't get that extra stack of burning on you from Permeating Wrath.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Mike.3196

Mike.3196

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@cryorion.9532 said:Indeed, Guardian is the most overperforming profession in game, in general, for years now.People got used to having so much so in case of proper balance, the class will be completely dead, totally unplayable and absolutely non-viable in every game mode. Yikes.I hope the trade offs DH and FB will get will be brutal.

They said would nerf amount of blocks that will hurt our sustain a bit but thats all unless ur running trait witn heal on aegis if not u will still get destroyed by guards and im talking about wwv people need stop carrying about this and if you dont like a meta dont play it uk anet wont do anything

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