Death Blossom is expensive and unimproved....please buff it.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Suggestions to consider:

1. Buff the power damage
2. .Increase the radius/range
3. Add a secondary effect, or a flip skill for a successful hit or dodge.

Of course, you don't have to do all of these, but the skill is weak besides the bleeds.

You can play power, but that is for the most self punishing of thieves.

inbefore444444 Sobx says it is fine as is

[Draygorn.7012]

I sort of agree. Would need to be careful though. This skill was considered cancerous. Also, this post should be moved to thief sub forum :)

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Draygorn.7012 said:I sort of agree. Would need to be careful though. This skill was considered cancerous. Also, this post should be moved to thief sub forum :)

Report it, because I made a mistake lol.

[Sobx.1758]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:inbefore444444 Sobx says it is fine as is

I see you need to talk about some deep issues, so feel free to elaborate. :)

[DeceiverX.8361]

Needs a rework. Fixed-distance dash evade 600-900 units, bleeds single-target in larger stacks at the end of the movement so that it won't reveal if used as defense while in stealth (like it currently does which actively works against power D/D). Can't be spammed this way for damage since you'll always be moving away and then dealing the damage, and encourages better spacing and non-spam by condi builds, while providing better mobility and fixes a lot of problems with escapees and disengage potential with power builds, and gets synergy with CnD for the condi variant.

Drop the cost to 3 due to slightly higher dependence on CnD for optimized damage and lack of spammable PbAoE damage, since it no longer becomes a viable damage source like FS nor a true disengage like IS/IR on S/D, and this can keep condi playing in the same style as power by having it use CnD to reposition/gain distance, and strike again for the fixed-distance strike.

With this, condi D/D now requires more skill and active initiative management, and now you've got a consistent performer across power/condi and D/D actually has some synergy and value across its skills for both builds. Power gets buffed in mobility and sustain which it desperately needs.

Been saying this for years. ANet won't do it because it was a fan-loved GW1 skill that was super strong. Sad truth.

[Sobx.1758]

Are you seriously suggesting 3 ini evading 600-900 range weapon skill for thief? That's insane.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Sobx.1758 said:Are you seriously suggesting 3 ini evading 600-900 range weapon skill for thief? That's insane.

While it is questionable, he does mention it being fixed distance. Meaning in order to hit someone with it, you already have to be at range.

[Fueki.4753]

Remove the evade and you can have more damage on it.It should be either offensive or defensive, not both.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Fueki.4753 said:Remove the evade and you can have more damage on it.It should be either offensive or defensive, not both.

I'd prefer it being purely an evade and mobility skill personally, they can drop the damage entirely. I have a preference for power D/D tho, so that's prob why I'm saying that.

[Yasai.3549]

I propose that it be changed into a 500 Range gap closer with a vault over their target which evades for 1 second.

Deals almost negligible damage, applies Cripple for 1s and inflicts 2 stacks of Poison.Costs 4 Ini.

D/D has alot of damage, but not alot of ways to reliably stick to their target.Giving it a form of gap closing aside from Steal or Signet would bring its usage rate up, while it won't affect PvE much either because yu never used Death Blossom in PvE anyway.

If yu have trouble envisioning how it looks like, just imagine Heroes of the Storm's Illidan's "Dive" skill.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Fueki.4753 said:Remove the evade and you can have more damage on it.It should be either offensive or defensive, not both.

many Guardian skills are both, so ......

[Fueki.4753]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Remove the evade and you can have more damage on it.It should be either offensive

or

defensive, not both.

many Guardian skills are both, so ......

And Guardians are equally complained about as Thieves are.

[kash.9213]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:Remove the evade and you can have more damage on it.It should be either offensive

or

defensive, not both.

many Guardian skills are both, so ......

And Guardians are equally complained about as Thieves are.

Looking at complaint and nerf threads in this forum and the WvW section, we really shouldn't make changes to the class based on complaints. They can design the skill so it makes sense within the class and isn't broken with any set and go from there. We also don't need to tamper GW2 gameplay into basically a turn based game where you hope you queued up either an offensive or defensive skill and see who lucked out on the right order. I get your reasoning and a new better version probably should only do damage or condition damage along with it's utility but to make only offensive or defensive might open up some solid skills that are similar.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Draygorn.7012 said:This skill was considered cancerous.What isn't cancerous these days? ;)Jokes aside, I wouldn't mind a slight damage buff and perhaps a smoother animation.

[Shiyo.3578]

Death blossom needs to be revamped entirely. D/D is the only weapon set that isn't used for it's dual skill while every other weapon set is used PURELY for it's dual skill. D/D isn't overperforming in PvE(It's actually meh to play because ST only is dumb) and is useless in PvP. Would be nice for D/D to be playable in PvP and more fun in PvE.

[Katalan.7930]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Suggestions to consider:

1. Buff the power damage
2. .Increase the radius/range
3. Add a secondary effect, or a flip skill for a successful hit or dodge.

Of course, you don't have to do all of these, but the skill is weak besides the bleeds.

You can play power, but that is for the most self punishing of thieves.

I really like the idea to "buff" the Death Blossom in order to make it less spammy and more tactical (skillful).I play DD condi in PVP since the game started and love the idea to evade while doing damage but I hate players who spam without timing anything.The initiative cost now is very high so we obviously spam less which force us to evade attacks on timing more than damaging so enemies are damaging themself by attacking which is very interesting gameplay (in my opinion) but at the same time this is very limited skill in order to make damage.Your suggestions are very interesting to me so I would like to share my ideas/opinions:

1. Buff the power damage:For power thieves I guess ? well instead of dealing more damage, I would prefer to add a penalty to the enemy like blind/weakness/vulnerability. In addition to the 3 bleeding stacks. Then you can play power or condi and being a strong skill. Would like to access to a secondary effect and why not make this one powerful. (then we keep being defense / offense but in 2 different skills).
2. Increase the radius/range:I want to disagree about increasing the range/radius. The reason why is because you already get too far away to your enemy which is very hard to pressure him in chain damage and also in PVP it is very easy to get out of a point or on a kitting spot while you trying to evade damages with 3. So I would even decrease the radius/range.
3. Add a secondary effect, or a flip skill for a successful hit or dodge:I wish it since years ago. It will make Death Blossom less spammy and more skillful for both enemies and you then timing your skills will be very important.What kind of secondary skill would you like to get after a successful hit/dodge ?

[Taril.8619]

Death Blossom is an issue because of how limited the rest of the skills in D/D are and thus it's trying to do too much.

In D/D:

• Your auto attacks are negligable, no-one cares about them.
• Backstab is just pure power damage and is only relevant when behind a target.
• Heartseeker is just pure power damage. It used to be decent mobility, but powercreep has lead to more weapon sets and classes having access to far stronger mobility skills.
• Dancing Dagger is kind of irrelevant for damage being negligible for both Power and Condi. It's only use is the ranged Cripple and the bounce effect to hit stealthed targets.
• Cloak and Dagger is just there for Stealth application and is only relevant for PvP (In PvE, the initiative is better spent on Heartseeker spam, even with M7 DE Backstabs)

So we have Death Blossom trying to be a Power, Condi, Mobility, Defence skill and sucking at all of them. For Power, it just doesn't really do enough especially when Heartseeker exists in the same set. For Condi it just really doesn't do enough to be justifiable (Unlike Unload which is also a Dual Wield skill that is a different damage type to the base weapon with Pistol MH being more Condi focused with Condi autos and a Condi Stealth skill, Unload simply does enough damage to make it usable), the Mobility is just awful and the Defence is minor given you generally don't want to be using Death Blossom at all.

Compare this weapon set to a better designed weapon set, Staff.With Staff:

• Your auto attacks deal decent damage.
• Weakening Charge does good damage and applies Weakness.
• Debilitating Arc provides Cripple, evade, immob break and mobility (Also has 0 cast time).
• Dust Strike provides Blind and Vulnerability.
• Vault deals decent damage (Not worth spending initiative spamming it outside of maybe 5+ targets, but not bad when you do use it), provides mobility and also some evade.

Each skill provides 1-2 good things as the kit is spread throughout the different skills. As opposed to D/D where every skill does 1 thing and then Death Blossom is trying to pick up the slack.

Which to be honest, lies a lot on the shoulders of OH Dagger, since it's a similar story for P/D and S/D while OH Pistol at least has Black Powder providing a bunch of utility (While Headshot is also a 1 trick skill).

Sword at least has Infiltrator's Strike which is multi-purpose (Mobility, Immobilize, Condi cleanse) and instead suffers from poor Dual Wield skills (High init costs, low impact effects)

Pistol MH also suffers slightly from Bolas Shot and Vital Shot being a bit 1 trick (Bolas being pretty much just the Immobilize with no damage and negligible Vulnerability. Vital Shot being just some Condi damage, but not even that good of Condi damage...)

So I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that Death Blossom should focus on fewer things and instead have the additional utility shared across other Dagger skills. For example, for Mobility, give Dancing Dagger a flip skill to shadowstep to the initial target. Cloak and Dagger having the evade frames. Heartseeker being able to cleave into 2/3 targets. That way Death Blossom could focus on providing just Condi damage and maybe some other utility (Besides evade, since a primary damage skill that also has evade frames that can be spammed several times in a row is probably not fun to play against in PvP), like I dunno... Bleed + Poison + Vigor? Bleed + Torment + Slow? Poison + Confusion + Weakness?