Returned again to pvp to test how things are... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Returned again to pvp to test how things are...

Mefiq.7039Mefiq.7039 Member ✭✭

Hi im Mefiq, played this game since it started - mainly pvp. I am returning every some time to check out how anet is handling thier best game mode.

Well lets start with statement that things sure escalated quickly.

I wont bore You with matchmaking imbalance I am more than sure all of You know about it,
I wont bore You with overall level of skill in pvp that dropped so hard down compared to pre hot/hot days.

Lets talk for real.

Whats up with classes dishing out almost 100-0 hp combo (with cc ofc).
I understand that dps needs to deal dmg to hurt tanks that can just dance all day but seriously in situation where you go DMG build vs DMG build it feels like 1 bad move and you are dead. If You get knocked? - dead You stepped into some aoe? - Dead.

It starts to be apparent that anet is introducing more and more AOE skills that deal kitten of dmg and cc and sustain and and and...
I can go as thief and try to dodge all day the moment I get hit with 1 spell I am forced to run away thats BONKERS.
When I go necro it is basically run in drop aoe or spin your scythe before thier necro does.
EVEN CONDI BUILDS can NUKE YOU to orbit in 1 sec with 10 stack burning...
Whats the reason to use any singletarget spells when You can spam aoe around and deal almost same if not greater dmg?

Game changed from trying to play your best to dropping aoe vs dropping aoe and looking which one sticks, to counter aoe You get AOE healer so he can AOE when You AOE.

kitten I didnt tought I would ever miss pew pew builds, they were kitten but atleast they had clear disadventage.

Right now how You fight in melee? Lets say You are a warrior and You see scourge running to the node. You cant go melee he will just drop kitten of condis that pulse for eternity around him and win. And thats how warriors became theterbreakers run in drop skill or 2 run out before aoe kills You.
And I still dont know how spells that should be aoe CC can deal half of target hp if enemy didnt dodge in time gotten added to so many clasees.
I dont remember killing ppl with engi rifle knock back in the days, that was the jump that followed what was doing the dmg, right now I can go Holo and drop 4 aoe 2 or 3 of them knock and if You dont dodge You will be basically dead, whats funny is the fact thier aoe is so large it can hit everyone fighting on the big node and kill them so fast they will be sad they didnt used stunbreak in time.

So what happened? Are tanks so strong that dps have to kill everything in 1 shot? What happened to interrupting in right moment from old days when you knew animation of heal(what has unique glow) and you Steal Rupt or knock or shatter rupt to block them and thats how You win?

Nowadays it feels like tanks are impossible to kill in 1v1 exept for herald that YOLOOOOOOS you with all spells engages and can kill You if You happen to blink in wrong time.

Hurr durr tanks arent supposed to die in 1v1 i hear you say... I would ask Why? If tank is carried by build alone, missplays alot he should be punnishable, If you guys saw my face when I tried scrapper bunker after all those times. I played like kitten but still didnt died once, no one could contest other bunkers were just running around dps couldnt kill me it was rly refreshing compared to thief that dies instantly if missplayed.

And the last point - Is it only me who decided to play pvp on lowest graphic? With all those particles game becomes unreadable, it is rly annoying when game expect me to play perfectly in order to not die and at same time clutters my spell with 1000000000000000 blinking objects...

Comments

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭

    Totally agree about the AoE. Bunkers die to good, well chained CC though. Either from 1 character or two.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    I think you'll find a lot of players who agree with you. The forum is filled with the points you've made, I've made some of them myself. Basically it's not worth trying to appeal to whoever is in charge of these things because they don't listen. The fact they made these changes means they obviously have an agenda that hasn't got anything to do with the health of PvP. Some of the changes were implemented for Esport when that was still a thing. Well that was a flop, and since they won't get any revenue from it PVP is neglected. PvP is the old WvW now.

    The state of PvP has increasingly headed to no to little counterplay and a lower skill bar. AoEs have become more larger, obscene damage, ridiculous CC amounts, and higher uptime. ANet have broken a good few rules that make PvP fun. If you want AoE you should have to sacrifice damage, If you want to be a super tank you should've be out damaging or have it equal to a dedicated dps build etc.

    +1

  • Shadow Order.7258Shadow Order.7258 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    yeah this game is in money milking maintenance mode. sad thing is, with the right decisions this game could actually do well.

    I wouldn't hold my breath. Like typical corporate America they layed off the talent but kept the bosses making the poor decisions.

  • Anet's thinking is that elite specialisations has to be more powerful than the previous ones, or people won't take interest in it, because it's "elite". That's the source of your power creep.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    yeah this game is in money milking maintenance mode. sad thing is, with the right decisions this game could actually do well.

    Couldn't say I agree, considering most of the PvE audience, which is most of the audience seem pretty happy lately. The new zone and story were both well received. The Skyscale, despite voluminous complaints is mostly well received. And we're still getting stuff. You may have never played a game in maintenance mode before, but I can assure you it looks nothing like this. Nothing at all. Not even a little.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    yeah this game is in money milking maintenance mode. sad thing is, with the right decisions this game could actually do well.

    Couldn't say I agree, considering most of the PvE audience, which is most of the audience seem pretty happy lately. The new zone and story were both well received. The Skyscale, despite voluminous complaints is mostly well received. And we're still getting stuff. You may have never played a game in maintenance mode before, but I can assure you it looks nothing like this. Nothing at all. Not even a little.

    I have. what is coming out now is fluff. why are you bringing up pve? I realize that they're working on swiss for pvp and restructuring for wvw, and I may get impatient and salty in the meantime... but there are a lot of small things that they can do before then that will go a long way.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    yeah this game is in money milking maintenance mode. sad thing is, with the right decisions this game could actually do well.

    Couldn't say I agree, considering most of the PvE audience, which is most of the audience seem pretty happy lately. The new zone and story were both well received. The Skyscale, despite voluminous complaints is mostly well received. And we're still getting stuff. You may have never played a game in maintenance mode before, but I can assure you it looks nothing like this. Nothing at all. Not even a little.

    I have. what is coming out now is fluff. why are you bringing up pve? I realize that they're working on swiss for pvp and restructuring for wvw, and I may get impatient and salty in the meantime... but there are a lot of small things that they can do before then that will go a long way.

    I'm bring up PvE because someone said this GAME is in maintenance mode. PvE is part of this game. What you call fluff is content to, in my opinion, the largest majority of the playerbase. I don't believe at any point PvPers represented any kind of majority here. While PvP might not be receiving regular upgrades, while PvP itself might be in some kind of maintenance mode, the game itself, Guild Wars 2 is not. I'll offer my opinion on what I consider to be misinformation whenever I see it. At very least it needs to be clarified, because even if you know what the OP means by the game is in maintenance mode, not everyone will.

  • Solution: nerf all damage in pvp by 80% and all healing in pvp by 85%.
    Here, problem solved. No more 1-shot builds, fights would last more than 2 sec and overall pvp experience would shift towards tactical and skillful play instead of button mashing.

  • Vithzerai.3291Vithzerai.3291 Member ✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    @Regon Phoenix.8215 said:
    Solution: nerf all damage in pvp by 80% and all healing in pvp by 85%.
    Here, problem solved. No more 1-shot builds, fights would last more than 2 sec and overall pvp experience would shift towards tactical and skillful play instead of button mashing.

    Skills and traits have varied multipiliers and scaling, so just nerfing everything by a flat percentage isn't very feasable - some things will be out of proportion.
    And that aside, just nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely if you nerf damage so hard.

  • @Vithzerai.3291 said:
    Skills and traits have varied multipiliers and scaling, so just nerfing everything by a flat percentage isn't very feasable - some things will be out of proportion.
    And that aside, just nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely if you nerf damage so hard.

    Did i said to reduce some multipliers?
    Just a blanket reduction on damage done. Everyone will be scaled completely equally in reductions, thus the current classes would work the same and stack the same, but their damage and healing would be way lower.
    Also, why "nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely"? Currently immortal builds are immortals because of massive amounts of self-healing they can produce. Scale down all healing and their survival will scale down as much as damage of other classes.
    It seems you have massive problems with math, so i will help you out:

    Scenario 1 (about classes who can 1-shot nearly anyone)
    Class A does 8k damage per sec.
    Class B does 4k healing per sec.
    This means that class A does 100% more damage than class B does healing. Technically, class B loses 4K HP per sec, so a class with 20k HP dies in 5 sec (however, in reality it is closer to 1 sec).
    After nerf, class A: 8000 x 20% = 1.6k damage per sec
    After nerf, class B: 4000 x 15% = 0.6k healing
    So, after blanket nerf class A does 166% more damage than class B does healing. However, 1-shoting becomes impossible and glass cannons will be forced to play more tactically instead of relying on one trick, because to kill anyone with 20k HP would take up at least 20 sec.
    Basic math shows that it would solve issue with 1-shot classes and make the game WAY MORE focused on tactical and skillful play.
    Scenario 2 (about immortal builds)
    Class A does 4k damage per sec.
    Class B does 5k healing per sec.
    This means that class B does 25% more healing than class A does damage, so class B is technically unkillable by class A no matter what.
    After nerf, class A: 4000 x 20% = 0.8k damage per sec
    After nerf, class B: 5000 x 15% = 0.75k healing
    So, after blanket nerf class A does 6% more damage than class B does healing. This would allow class A to kill class B and would solve the problem with immortal classes, but it would not completely delete viability of such classes, because for class A to kill class B (assume it have 20k HP once again) it would take up to 400 sec.
    Oh, look, math solves everything once again.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    Power creep is a real thing and the game is obviously a lot more fastpaced than it was at release. But imo it's not entirely a bad thing (even though maybe it has been taken a bit too far) because it makes the game more mechanical and less rock/paper/scissors. I'd say individual mechanical skill matters more now than it used to.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP content

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm bring up PvE because someone said this GAME is in maintenance mode. PvE is part of this game. What you call fluff is content to, in my opinion, the largest majority of the playerbase. I don't believe at any point PvPers represented any kind of majority here. While PvP might not be receiving regular upgrades, while PvP itself might be in some kind of maintenance mode, the game itself, Guild Wars 2 is not. I'll offer my opinion on what I consider to be misinformation whenever I see it. At very least it needs to be clarified, because even if you know what the OP means by the game is in maintenance mode, not everyone will.

    ok ok, you caught me. only 2/3 of the game is in maintenance mode.

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    @Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:
    Skills and traits have varied multipiliers and scaling, so just nerfing everything by a flat percentage isn't very feasable - some things will be out of proportion.
    And that aside, just nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely if you nerf damage so hard.

    Did i said to reduce some multipliers?
    Just a blanket reduction on damage done. Everyone will be scaled completely equally in reductions, thus the current classes would work the same and stack the same, but their damage and healing would be way lower.
    Also, why "nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely"? Currently immortal builds are immortals because of massive amounts of self-healing they can produce. Scale down all healing and their survival will scale down as much as damage of other classes.
    It seems you have massive problems with math, so i will help you out:

    Scenario 1 (about classes who can 1-shot nearly anyone)
    Class A does 8k damage per sec.
    Class B does 4k healing per sec.
    This means that class A does 100% more damage than class B does healing. Technically, class B loses 4K HP per sec, so a class with 20k HP dies in 5 sec (however, in reality it is closer to 1 sec).
    After nerf, class A: 8000 x 20% = 1.6k damage per sec
    After nerf, class B: 4000 x 15% = 0.6k healing
    So, after blanket nerf class A does 166% more damage than class B does healing. However, 1-shoting becomes impossible and glass cannons will be forced to play more tactically instead of relying on one trick, because to kill anyone with 20k HP would take up at least 20 sec.
    Basic math shows that it would solve issue with 1-shot classes and make the game WAY MORE focused on tactical and skillful play.
    Scenario 2 (about immortal builds)
    Class A does 4k damage per sec.
    Class B does 5k healing per sec.
    This means that class B does 25% more healing than class A does damage, so class B is technically unkillable by class A no matter what.
    After nerf, class A: 4000 x 20% = 0.8k damage per sec
    After nerf, class B: 5000 x 15% = 0.75k healing
    So, after blanket nerf class A does 6% more damage than class B does healing. This would allow class A to kill class B and would solve the problem with immortal classes, but it would not completely delete viability of such classes, because for class A to kill class B (assume it have 20k HP once again) it would take up to 400 sec.
    Oh, look, math solves everything once again.

    best solution... i dont agree with the numbers itself, but its a matter of tweaking. (400s to kill someone is really close to immortal to me)

  • @Zawn.9647 said:
    best solution... i dont agree with the numbers itself, but its a matter of tweaking. (400s to kill someone is really close to immortal to me)

    Well, these numbers were an estimation. Of course actual reductions should be very accurate and tested before implementation, but ain't nobody can deny that this game pvp vise is horrid. Everyone either plays 1-shot ponies or unkillable monsters (or soulbeast, who is these two combined). When average fight last for 1-2 sec you know that something is wrong.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm bring up PvE because someone said this GAME is in maintenance mode. PvE is part of this game. What you call fluff is content to, in my opinion, the largest majority of the playerbase. I don't believe at any point PvPers represented any kind of majority here. While PvP might not be receiving regular upgrades, while PvP itself might be in some kind of maintenance mode, the game itself, Guild Wars 2 is not. I'll offer my opinion on what I consider to be misinformation whenever I see it. At very least it needs to be clarified, because even if you know what the OP means by the game is in maintenance mode, not everyone will.

    ok ok, you caught me. only 2/3 of the game is in maintenance mode.

    It was never 2/3s of the game, not even at launch. Not even close. There was one type of SPvP, and there were 4 WvW maps, 3 of which were duplicated. The rest of the game, including most of the updates since launch have been PvE updates, by a huge amount. The game has always been 70-80% PvE, from day one. Not one PvP type.

    Sure there was a group of hard core WvWers, but you know it was still just the servers with no overflow maps at launch. No real way to tell how popular it was in comparison to PvE because PVE had overflow servers. So maybe 20% of the game is in maintence mode, except it's not because they are still making changes to it, even if you don't like the speed at which those changes come.

    Maintence mode implies changes aren't being made at all. WvW and PvP were never really updated with any regularity, so they're in the same mode they launched in.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2019

    I think the power creep in PvP is intended. Or do you really believe developers are not aware of what they have done the past 2-3 years? If they can shut down PvP completely more resources will become available for other game modes.

  • Mefiq.7039Mefiq.7039 Member ✭✭

    Still i hate to say it guys but once you make fights longer roamers like rev thief and mes will be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO insanely good. (As a thief i would be mad because i would be something more that decap bot)

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mefiq.7039 said:
    Still i hate to say it guys but once you make fights longer roamers like rev thief and mes will be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO insanely good. (As a thief i would be mad because i would be something more that decap bot)

    Cuz teefs are great in long fights lmao

  • Mefiq.7039Mefiq.7039 Member ✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Mefiq.7039 said:
    Still i hate to say it guys but once you make fights longer roamers like rev thief and mes will be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO insanely good. (As a thief i would be mad because i would be something more that decap bot)

    Cuz teefs are great in long fights lmao

    if fights are longer than 3sec You actually can +1 easy and isnt that Thief only strong point?

  • Ivarian.9018Ivarian.9018 Member ✭✭

    @Zawn.9647 said:

    @Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

    @Vithzerai.3291 said:
    Skills and traits have varied multipiliers and scaling, so just nerfing everything by a flat percentage isn't very feasable - some things will be out of proportion.
    And that aside, just nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely if you nerf damage so hard.

    Did i said to reduce some multipliers?
    Just a blanket reduction on damage done. Everyone will be scaled completely equally in reductions, thus the current classes would work the same and stack the same, but their damage and healing would be way lower.
    Also, why "nerfing healing won't be enough to stop everything from just surviving indefinitely"? Currently immortal builds are immortals because of massive amounts of self-healing they can produce. Scale down all healing and their survival will scale down as much as damage of other classes.
    It seems you have massive problems with math, so i will help you out:

    Scenario 1 (about classes who can 1-shot nearly anyone)
    Class A does 8k damage per sec.
    Class B does 4k healing per sec.
    This means that class A does 100% more damage than class B does healing. Technically, class B loses 4K HP per sec, so a class with 20k HP dies in 5 sec (however, in reality it is closer to 1 sec).
    After nerf, class A: 8000 x 20% = 1.6k damage per sec
    After nerf, class B: 4000 x 15% = 0.6k healing
    So, after blanket nerf class A does 166% more damage than class B does healing. However, 1-shoting becomes impossible and glass cannons will be forced to play more tactically instead of relying on one trick, because to kill anyone with 20k HP would take up at least 20 sec.
    Basic math shows that it would solve issue with 1-shot classes and make the game WAY MORE focused on tactical and skillful play.
    Scenario 2 (about immortal builds)
    Class A does 4k damage per sec.
    Class B does 5k healing per sec.
    This means that class B does 25% more healing than class A does damage, so class B is technically unkillable by class A no matter what.
    After nerf, class A: 4000 x 20% = 0.8k damage per sec
    After nerf, class B: 5000 x 15% = 0.75k healing
    So, after blanket nerf class A does 6% more damage than class B does healing. This would allow class A to kill class B and would solve the problem with immortal classes, but it would not completely delete viability of such classes, because for class A to kill class B (assume it have 20k HP once again) it would take up to 400 sec.
    Oh, look, math solves everything once again.

    best solution... i dont agree with the numbers itself, but its a matter of tweaking. (400s to kill someone is really close to immortal to me)

    Drastically reducing damage and healing will just see kitting play (i.e. mobility or sniper builds) becoming predominant and low mobility classes will become useless.

  • Jagdtiger.2517Jagdtiger.2517 Member ✭✭✭

    I was playing on and off just like you... Around February I realized that it's just time to let go. GW2 had good PvP in the past and will have some of my best gaming memories forever, but PvP is a shell of it's former self. The playerbase is too low to have consistent competition, PvP updates are extremely slow, and balance has been terribly ever since PoF and has barely gotten better. Unfortunately I haven't found any games good enough to fill the void but c'est la vie; still better than being angry at the state of the game every match.