How to zergbust using guardian, with moving pictures =D

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:

TL;DW:Guards should stick to support, nothing to see here

Skip to 3:00 if you want to see how it does in actual fights

Hot puppy. That AOE pressure. Makes me want to dust out my guardian again.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Zero mobility Dragonhunter is a great choice for WvW.

same with zero mobility scourge?

Scourge brings a bit more than a single condi tick...But like I said, I've got sigil of cleansing and unblockable, y'all load up on the tbdh's lol

So you agree then that classes with low mobility can be useful in certain situations, as was shown in the video.

How'd you get that from me saying scourge brings far more benefit to a group than this build?Minstrel thief is useful in "certain situations", doesn't mean I want one in my group over a better performing build.

But you would take a weaver in squad over a dh?

Please enlighten me, what does a weaver contribute to the group?

You aren't making any sense man

[steki.1478]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Zero mobility Dragonhunter is a great choice for WvW.

same with zero mobility scourge?

Scourge brings a bit more than a single condi tick...But like I said, I've got sigil of cleansing and unblockable, y'all load up on the tbdh's lol

So you agree then that classes with low mobility can be useful in certain situations, as was shown in the video.

How'd you get that from me saying scourge brings far more benefit to a group than this build?Minstrel thief is useful in "certain situations", doesn't mean I want one in my group over a better performing build.

But you would take a weaver in squad over a dh?

Please enlighten me, what does a weaver contribute to the group?

You aren't making any sense man

Aoe pressure and CC against people who know how to use their classes.

[LetoII.3782]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Zero mobility Dragonhunter is a great choice for WvW.

same with zero mobility scourge?

Scourge brings a bit more than a single condi tick...But like I said, I've got sigil of cleansing and unblockable, y'all load up on the tbdh's lol

So you agree then that classes with low mobility can be useful in certain situations, as was shown in the video.

How'd you get that from me saying scourge brings far more benefit to a group than this build?Minstrel thief is useful in "certain situations", doesn't mean I want one in my group over a better performing build.

But you would take a weaver in squad over a dh?

Please enlighten me, what does a weaver contribute to the group?

You aren't making any sense man

YOU mentioned weaver, not me.We have a guy that brings weaver sometimes, but he's a striker: 1-shots people on any build he brings.That's us having a HIM in group xDMaybe that's you in your guild? Doesn't mean you're not doing general forumites a disservice advocating such a weak setup.

[alain.1659]

Problem with wvw is thay people thing solely on meta builds. I have a psycho friend that roams on zerker staff ele. Both in zergs and roaming he doeş better than several meta players. It is the same with me, I have played DH and Tempest so long that I can pull combos with my eyes closed. A good skilled player with a non meta build is better than an average one with a meta.

It used to be at least. Now meta builds are insanely easy to play. Thank god some are easy to counter too.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@steki.1478 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Zero mobility Dragonhunter is a great choice for WvW.

same with zero mobility scourge?

Scourge brings a bit more than a single condi tick...But like I said, I've got sigil of cleansing and unblockable, y'all load up on the tbdh's lol

So you agree then that classes with low mobility can be useful in certain situations, as was shown in the video.

How'd you get that from me saying scourge brings far more benefit to a group than this build?Minstrel thief is useful in "certain situations", doesn't mean I want one in my group over a better performing build.

But you would take a weaver in squad over a dh?

Please enlighten me, what does a weaver contribute to the group?

You aren't making any sense man

Aoe pressure and CC against people who know how to use their classes.

Watch the video and tell me it doesn't have aoe pressure, easily outstripping the weavers. I even have the dps out meter open to showcase it.

Ele has earthen ground, frost field, and static field.

Dh has lb3, lb5, and covers the whole zero in cripple and vuln.

As soon as the enemy group tries to restack it's gg, either from the damage outright or from blowing all their cleanses before a melee push where your scourge can 10 cap.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Zero mobility Dragonhunter is a great choice for WvW.

same with zero mobility scourge?

Scourge brings a bit more than a single condi tick...But like I said, I've got sigil of cleansing and unblockable, y'all load up on the tbdh's lol

So you agree then that classes with low mobility can be useful in certain situations, as was shown in the video.

How'd you get that from me saying scourge brings far more benefit to a group than this build?Minstrel thief is useful in "certain situations", doesn't mean I want one in my group over a better performing build.

But you would take a weaver in squad over a dh?

Please enlighten me, what does a weaver contribute to the group?

You aren't making any sense man

YOU mentioned weaver, not me.We have a guy that brings weaver sometimes, but he's a striker: 1-shots people on any build he brings.That's us having a HIM in group xDMaybe that's you in your guild? Doesn't mean you're not doing general forumites a disservice advocating such a weak setup.

Right, because this does everything a weaver does and more. Which is why it competes with weavers for slots.

I don't have a wvw guild right now. You make it sound like it's difficult to get good numbers out of this, but it's significantly easier to do well on than weaver.

Weaver you have to maintain all your damage % modifiers and stance dance. Dh... put down a soj, put down a symbol, massive damage with no additional investment.

[Shroud.2307]

@LetoII.3782@RisenHowl.2419@"Paradoxoglanis.1904"

Burn DH's isn't meta and is uncommon in groups, it will only take a little scanning to find the culprit at which point it becomes a liability. This isn't necessarily assuming best case scenario, but it is assuming the players you're fighting have at least a handful of roamers/competent individuals rather than being 100% zerglings or squad comp. Burn DH can work but the same can be said for anything, really. I'm not going to argue semantics because I don't personally care about meta. Just reinforcing the point that it has a negligible impact despite the numbers on the DPS charts.

As for Weaver, I assume you brought it up because some groups prefer to bring it for a back line DPS role. If you're arguing that DH can fulfill that role, I think that's true but it's hardly a statement. All it means is a greater niche for the sake of preference.

The issue with this build is that it's primary source of damage is Burning and one of the only damaging conditions it can apply, as well as one of the only conditions it applies in general. I think the point Letoll was trying to make is that it's easy to cleanse and it's role as a condition DPS is better left to Scourge.

If your guild or friends prefer to bring this over something else, cool, but it doesn't "compete" with Weavers. A couple 2 - 3k Burn ticks here and there is nothing compared 9 - 12k multi-hits from Meteor Shower. Both of which are most effective in chokes with the former having much greater potential to lose damage to Resistance and cleanses.

[XenesisII.1540]

When you take dragonhunter spec you can also get 2 cover conditions every time justice procs, plus there's scourges around for constant corruptions to also cover. The damage could compete with weavers, it's something you could take as a side replacement, but probably not replace anything in the main meta since power damage is preferred. Even though you can get burn ticks of up to 8k, there's a lot of cleansing happening in bigger groups, but it's great to use on groups who are not expecting that quick burn damage, like those standing around on siege not prepared to fight yet, or mid tier guilds who are not running full boon ball comps. Burn is still the hardest hitting condition in the game, so even if you got a few burn guards together and organized hit like revenant bombs it could probably make a difference.

In any case it's a fun dps build to mess with groups other than the usual scourge rev weaver, got me back to playing wvw more regularly but unfortunately the other kitten side of combat is creeping back in and turning me off again.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Possibly one of the funnest builds for WvW because not many people are brave enough to leave their blob and since the spirit sword blends in well with bigger numbers they never see it coming lol. I swapped to this from my Core Ele and had a much better experience in WvW sense I didnt die to retaliation and the numbers were much more spread out in the end.

So many bags when a opposing blob attempts to cap the keep/castle and are all ontop of the boss.

[steki.1478]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:Zero mobility Dragonhunter is a great choice for WvW.

same with zero mobility scourge?

Scourge brings a bit more than a single condi tick...But like I said, I've got sigil of cleansing and unblockable, y'all load up on the tbdh's lol

So you agree then that classes with low mobility can be useful in certain situations, as was shown in the video.

How'd you get that from me saying scourge brings far more benefit to a group than this build?Minstrel thief is useful in "certain situations", doesn't mean I want one in my group over a better performing build.

But you would take a weaver in squad over a dh?

Please enlighten me, what does a weaver contribute to the group?

You aren't making any sense man

Aoe pressure and CC against people who know how to use their classes.

Watch the video and tell me it doesn't have aoe pressure, easily outstripping the weavers. I even have the dps out meter open to showcase it.

Ele has earthen ground, frost field, and static field.

Dh has lb3, lb5, and covers the whole zero in cripple and vuln.

As soon as the enemy group tries to restack it's gg, either from the damage outright or from blowing all their cleanses before a melee push where your scourge can 10 cap.

You can call it zergbusting all you want, but all I'm seeing are karma trains and havoc groups who don't know how to press anything other than S key. Cant expect more from EB tbh.

I don't see any counter reaction from enemies, I don't see anyone using mesmer pulls, I didn't even notice a single rev hammer skill from them towards you while you're freecasting. I didn't even see those in your team, it's bots vs bots getting carried by 2 good players who could play almost anything and still give same results.

I'm not saying your build is bad, every build has its niche. Afk enemies seem to be burn guard's niche and same works for at least half of non meta builds with some aoe and burst in their kit.

Cherrypicking videos against bots doesn't make a build competitive. My server has a lot of burn guard enthusiasts (a whole guild was running hybrid fb's at some point) and they all stopped playing them because the build is useful only in very specific scenarios and vs bots, which arent that common, at least in EU. One even tried to convince me that power dh is a thing, but I never got to see it in action aka vs actual enemies.

Ps. The CC from dh is a joke compared to weaver.

[jaif.3518]

Burn DH's isn't meta and is uncommon in groups, it will only take a little scanning to find the culprit at which point it becomes a liability. This isn't necessarily assuming best case scenario, but it is assuming the players you're fighting have at least a handful of roamers/competent individuals rather than being 100% zerglings or squad comp.

I've been running the holy warlock build against t1 zergs as a scum-pugging casual, not even joining squads a lot of the time. What you write above does not match my experience at all, and they certainly have plenty of competent groups. Do I die? Sure - I zag wrong, make a mistake, I die. But I get bags and situations very much like those vids too, and it happens a lot once you understand the positioning and cooldowns. This is not a roaming build - it's totally about positioning and understanding the flow of zergs. TBH, a cloud of rangers, mesmers, and thieves are vastly more dangerous to this build than the standard meta build, but that's old news - there's no "one true build".

Burn DH can work but the same can be said for anything, really. I'm not going to argue semantics because I don't personally care about meta. Just reinforcing the point that it has a negligible impact despite the numbers on the DPS charts.

Again, not my experience. Especially when there's a significant number of rangers around (when aren't there? ), once you create a bunch of downs on the flanks or backline, they die fast. There's a lot of people with good reactions just waiting for an edge, and this build creates a lot of opportunities. The build makes a difference, it is not negligible.

-Jeff

[RisenHowl.2419]

@"jaif.3518" said:

Burn DH's isn't meta and is uncommon in groups, it will only take a little scanning to find the culprit at which point it becomes a liability. This isn't necessarily assuming best case scenario, but it is assuming the players you're fighting have at least a handful of roamers/competent individuals rather than being 100% zerglings or squad comp.

I've been running the holy warlock build against t1 zergs as a scum-pugging casual, not even joining squads a lot of the time. What you write above does not match my experience at all, and they certainly have plenty of competent groups. Do I die? Sure - I zag wrong, make a mistake, I die. But I get bags and situations very much like those vids too, and it happens a lot once you understand the positioning and cooldowns. This is not a roaming build - it's totally about positioning and understanding the flow of zergs. TBH, a cloud of rangers, mesmers, and thieves are vastly more dangerous to this build than the standard meta build, but that's old news - there's no "one true build".

Burn DH can work but the same can be said for anything, really. I'm not going to argue semantics because I don't personally care about meta. Just reinforcing the point that it has a negligible impact despite the numbers on the DPS charts.

Again, not my experience. Especially when there's a significant number of rangers around (when aren't there? ), once you create a bunch of downs on the flanks or backline, they die fast. There's a lot of people with good reactions just waiting for an edge, and this build creates a lot of opportunities. The build makes a difference, it is not negligible.

-Jeff

thank you for the feedback =D

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"jaif.3518" said:

Burn DH's isn't meta and is uncommon in groups, it will only take a little scanning to find the culprit at which point it becomes a liability. This isn't necessarily assuming best case scenario, but it is assuming the players you're fighting have at least a handful of roamers/competent individuals rather than being 100% zerglings or squad comp.

I've been running the holy warlock build against t1 zergs as a scum-pugging casual, not even joining squads a lot of the time. What you write above does not match my experience at all, and they certainly have plenty of competent groups. Do I die? Sure - I zag wrong, make a mistake, I die. But I get bags and situations very much like those vids too, and it happens a lot once you understand the positioning and cooldowns. This is not a roaming build - it's totally about positioning and understanding the flow of zergs. TBH, a cloud of rangers, mesmers, and thieves are vastly more dangerous to this build than the standard meta build, but that's old news - there's no "one true build".

Burn DH can work but the same can be said for anything, really. I'm not going to argue semantics because I don't personally care about meta. Just reinforcing the point that it has a negligible impact despite the numbers on the DPS charts.

Again, not my experience. Especially when there's a significant number of rangers around (when aren't there? ), once you create a bunch of downs on the flanks or backline, they die fast. There's a lot of people with good reactions just waiting for an edge, and this build creates a lot of opportunities. The build makes a difference, it is not negligible.

-Jeff

thank you for the feedback =D

I've tried your holy warlock (nice name!) build myself with a few slight variations.I would say the play-style is refreshing and fun.

However, it was rather squishy and as Jaif mentions, can get picked off easily by rangers.It is also not strong enough to run through a blob without really good healers on your side and seems to struggle even then.

Damage was nice, ability to tag was nice.However compared to a Necro, it still falls a little short on its AOE potential.The sword cast range was also a little too short for my liking.900 range and small radius means it often needs to be closer to the action which results in more exposure.It can be rather potent though in niche situations.

Would a Firebrand adopting this build be a better option than DH though?FB has a lot more AOE potential with its F1 skills once you've unloaded all your other skills.Perhaps less survivable? IDK, just throwing out thoughts.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"jaif.3518" said:

Burn DH's isn't meta and is uncommon in groups, it will only take a little scanning to find the culprit at which point it becomes a liability. This isn't necessarily assuming best case scenario, but it is assuming the players you're fighting have at least a handful of roamers/competent individuals rather than being 100% zerglings or squad comp.

I've been running the holy warlock build against t1 zergs as a scum-pugging casual, not even joining squads a lot of the time. What you write above does not match my experience at all, and they certainly have plenty of competent groups. Do I die? Sure - I zag wrong, make a mistake, I die. But I get bags and situations very much like those vids too, and it happens a lot once you understand the positioning and cooldowns. This is not a roaming build - it's totally about positioning and understanding the flow of zergs. TBH, a cloud of rangers, mesmers, and thieves are vastly more dangerous to this build than the standard meta build, but that's old news - there's no "one true build".

Burn DH can work but the same can be said for anything, really. I'm not going to argue semantics because I don't personally care about meta. Just reinforcing the point that it has a negligible impact despite the numbers on the DPS charts.

Again, not my experience. Especially when there's a significant number of rangers around (when aren't there? ), once you create a bunch of downs on the flanks or backline, they die fast. There's a lot of people with good reactions just waiting for an edge, and this build creates a lot of opportunities. The build makes a difference, it is not negligible.

-Jeff

thank you for the feedback =D

I've tried your holy warlock (nice name!) build myself with a few slight variations.I would say the play-style is refreshing and fun.

However, it was rather squishy and as Jaif mentions, can get picked off easily by rangers.It is also not strong enough to run through a blob without really good healers on your side and seems to struggle even then.

Damage was nice, ability to tag was nice.However compared to a Necro, it still falls a little short on its AOE potential.The sword cast range was also a little too short for my liking.900 range and small radius means it often needs to be closer to the action which results in more exposure.It can be rather potent though in niche situations.

Would a Firebrand adopting this build be a better option than DH though?FB has a lot more AOE potential with its F1 skills once you've unloaded all your other skills.Perhaps less survivable? IDK, just throwing out thoughts.

Put on some carrion gear if you feel too squishy, I usually run with a couple pieces at least. You shouldn't try to run through a zerg either unless you have no choice, play it off tag for best results. Just dip into your zerg for healing if you need it, but don't sit on your stack =D

It takes a bit of practice with the skills, most have a 1/2s delay before they tick so you need to place them where they will be instead of where they are. Ideally you want to drop it when they slow down or stop to regroup or range bomb since that's when they're most vulnerable.

900 range is perfect for hiding it in your scourge bomb, all the cover conditions mean your damage gets through clean while you stack 25 vuln to up the scourge damage in return.

Dps quickbrand build if you want to go that route. It loses a bit of damage but has the same boon output as minstrels +100% party quickness. DH offers better hard defense, mobility, and cover conditions though which allows you to run glassier stats. Up to you lol

[enkidu.5937]

Too many damage ticks, too high damage numbers, my PC won't be able to calcualte this inferno :#

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

@"Safandula.8723" said:Already seen Figrins burn guard before, it got my attention. Build plz?

You mean things like this?

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

I do run with groups/zergs at time and generally at the top (or top 3 at least) in damage though out fights. But I'll be the first to state, carrying any more than 2 in a 50 man squad is a waste. It is always useful to have one or two around as it provides great pressure (and spikes as I run it), but not a lot of sustain. It basically takes up the spot of a ganker used to finish downs or in my case create downs. I'm also very handy at burning through barrier group setups and using up foes CD's.

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"jaif.3518" said:

Burn DH's isn't meta and is uncommon in groups, it will only take a little scanning to find the culprit at which point it becomes a liability. This isn't necessarily assuming best case scenario, but it is assuming the players you're fighting have at least a handful of roamers/competent individuals rather than being 100% zerglings or squad comp.

I've been running the holy warlock build against t1 zergs as a scum-pugging casual, not even joining squads a lot of the time. What you write above does not match my experience at all, and they certainly have plenty of competent groups. Do I die? Sure - I zag wrong, make a mistake, I die. But I get bags and situations very much like those vids too, and it happens a lot once you understand the positioning and cooldowns. This is not a roaming build - it's totally about positioning and understanding the flow of zergs. TBH, a cloud of rangers, mesmers, and thieves are vastly more dangerous to this build than the standard meta build, but that's old news - there's no "one true build".

Burn DH can work but the same can be said for anything, really. I'm not going to argue semantics because I don't personally care about meta. Just reinforcing the point that it has a negligible impact despite the numbers on the DPS charts.

Again, not my experience. Especially when there's a significant number of rangers around (when aren't there? ), once you create a bunch of downs on the flanks or backline, they die fast. There's a lot of people with good reactions just waiting for an edge, and this build creates a lot of opportunities. The build makes a difference, it is not negligible.

-Jeff

thank you for the feedback =D

I've tried your holy warlock (nice name!) build myself with a few slight variations.I would say the play-style is refreshing and fun.

However, it was rather squishy and as Jaif mentions, can get picked off easily by rangers.It is also not strong enough to run through a blob without really good healers on your side and seems to struggle even then.

Damage was nice, ability to tag was nice.However compared to a Necro, it still falls a little short on its AOE potential.The sword cast range was also a little too short for my liking.900 range and small radius means it often needs to be closer to the action which results in more exposure.It can be rather potent though in niche situations.

Would a Firebrand adopting this build be a better option than DH though?FB has a lot more AOE potential with its F1 skills once you've unloaded all your other skills.Perhaps less survivable? IDK, just throwing out thoughts.

DH provides a lot more condition cover (especially cripple and vulnerability) and burst potential. FB can provide better sustained damage and better group utility though. I have seen it run in groups like that and be quite useful.

FYI, DH provides a lot more aoe potential. Keep in mind most every skill in game have limiters on the number of foes hit. Putting the aoe potential at best 10 opponents (most only having 5). Burn guards have an AOE potential of 25 foes and can keep it up constantly.

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

Oh and with reflect walls, burn guards can actually effect and entire zerg no matter its size.

[RisenHowl.2419]

more clips in action =D

[mmccourt.6254]

Anyone know if this build is still viable today??

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

all dmg is a ton lower today. traps got nerfed hard, before they did hit into groups with a notable impact. some people do still use dragonhunter, it's nothing compared to the power of a weaver if we talk about puglife.

still far from the usefulness of a scrouge or herald tho.

i think dragonhunter has a good stand in 1v1 spvp rather than in wvw.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@"mmccourt.6254" said:Anyone know if this build is still viable today??

It's more or less the same though everything does less damage these days.

Ironically, everyone's damage getting nerfed means power guardian is all the craze these days:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Power_Guardian

But it's basically the same idea.

[Svarty.8019]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Put on some carrion gear if you feel too squishy, I usually run with a couple pieces at least. You shouldn't try to run through a zerg either unless you have no choice, play it off tag for best results. Just dip into your zerg for healing if you need it, but don't sit on your stack =D

I'm Dire all the way, baby! I don' need no stinkin' orange numbers.