Arheundel.6451

Imagine having people saying that Tempest is tougher and more useful than scrapper..... Oh wait...the situation even "better" in WvW..... Surely Tempest is stronger.... By the way...I doubt strongly that scrapper went unnoticed by the devs....

lol ele is bottom tier everywhere and it only shines thx to the skills of the individual

As it stands, the best use for core class I found is as "quick attunement rotation", typical cantrip strategy that worked with d/d ele back in the days, still somehow work. Other than that it depends on how you want to play, the class is really unforgiving and at times feels useless, I can still manage something on the class ( more because people always think an ele player as easy kill ) but overall the class is not optimal in any game mode....it's just mostly viable depending on the player's skills

The forum does that with any build , it's always the same people who are always ready to list every single weaknesse of their favourite class like they'd all be combined into a simple build and they do the opposite with the profession they hate, listing all strengths like combined into a single build that apparently got no weaknesses

How can anybody still state that Tempest is viable in wvw?...god...there are scrappers/scourge/firebrand zergs everywhere and some people claim Tempest is still meta ....

This is straight up a lie. I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong?a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its ownYou need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite He said, the sword alone is better damage than zerk fgs. I can guarantee you I'll get more dmg out of fgs in a 16s duration (time to cast all 4 swords) than the burning from sword. I want to see numbers now. :tongue: @Math.5123, you provide maximum damage for FGS, screenshot is just fine.@Arheundel.6451, you do the same for SoJ. Not that it really mattered, but I am still curious.As I have stated : a single sword of justice can down a light/medium golem on its own.... Same cannot be said for the dps of FGS, dunno what even is the point , people trying to justify the dmg of an elite to an utility, the dmg coming from a conjure elite should be at least 3x of what is now. If people want to compare then sword of justice with arcane blast as dmg utility comparison well....lol the difference would be even more hilarious. I have no reason to ask for nerfs on anything these days...as people can see...I play almost everything.

What happens when you get 3 eles in the enemy team? Do you celebrate or ask for bans?....

This is straight up a lie. I have videos to show otherwise...do you want force me to upload videos on youtubes after processing them and prove you wrong? a single sword of justice summon can down a light/medium golem on its ownYou need a full FGS rotation to down a medium golem...and we're talking about an elite

Getting the same damn error ffs, game is close to be unplayable, sometimes happens once every few hours...another time twice within 10m

Too much truth I remember people back then calling me a noob for complaining about Flamethrower scrapper and how stupid the design was...but hey , now people changed their mind

I play all classes except thief and mesmer, without wasting too much time, here is the true list of easy builds, it's very very very easy to grasp the overall gameplay of the following builds, you will hardly ever have a bad time on them. I don't have an easiest build as it depends on the way you approach the game but ..I can tell you on which professions you won't find an easy build (at least for the moment with the current balance ) = elementalist - mesmer and thief ; avoid these 3 if you're not looking to actually learn the class. 1) Sword of Justice core guardian/DH with trap runes2) Flamethrower scrapper3) Shortbow Renegade Jalis/shiro4) Condi core necro5) Shortbow immobilize ranger6) Mallyx/Glint herald You can play any of the 6 builds above without even need to actually learn the class (with rev just run invocation GM 2 in the middle - swap legends when low, rinse and repeat), that's the list, it doesn't come easier than this atm, you won't reach legendary but you won't find yourself wondering why you die....you can literally kill people by randomly( well...almost xd ) pressing buttons

You're not. I suggested spreading the damage out over the skills and then cutting the elite cd heavily since it's like the only useful elite they have for single/small target damage. What i'm more worried about is gutting necro damage with lich that it becomes one of those useless things with huge cd and nothing given back to balance out the killpower. They gutted Ele mesmers for instance and others.What about you increase Lich form utility and reduce the cheese at the same time?

Nothing more to add

Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage. 50% is too huge. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core. Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2. Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs. I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from grim specter (lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills. I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless. Maybe but technically both the life leeching and vitality components of grim reaper have seen a significant increase of efficiency with the patch. Is it right to accept this buff of "sustain efficiency" and fight against nerfs on the other side on the basis of "damage efficiency"? Should all healing and damage number values be decreased by 30% for the sake of "fairness" instead? Personally I'd rather have a 50% damage nerf on the AA than a global 30% nerf. Beside, if a 50% nerf on the AA of a transformation that have a 150s CD is enough to gut a profession, then the profession is already broken at it's core and need to be looked at seriously by the developpers. It's better to get rid of the bandaid that hide the festering wound and threat the wound than keep the bandaid.You may well be the only honest necro player left on this forum

Axe reachs 4k autos in a tanky build and Winter’s bite deals as much damage as the maul ins a AoE at 900 range with chilled and weakness. Split blade can delete glass builds if you hit with the 5 blades. It is a overtunned, it needs the might removed from the autos and the Winter’s bite an slower projectile and more visible. That single weapon alone carries tanky ranger builds. 4k AA with tanky build? Anything less than full glass zerker stats as base won't even get close to 800 dmg on a light armor golem...let alone 4k, where do you get these numbers? WvW? Surely not in PvP..if not there would be hundreds of axe/axe rangers right now and in WvW anyway....I am pretty sure those numbers come from some meme build that play hide and seek close to a tower I won't go and claim that ranger is not a competitive class right now, while not being a MAT pick or zerg worthy, the class is still luckily plenty capable for small fights...but there are other specs in the same spectrum as ranger right now with equally abusive builds that deserver as much in terms of nerfs. When it comes to WvW balance..there is not a single class I would spare from the nerf hammer with condi signet core necro as first on my list of things to hard nerf followed by Condi herald...and yeah we'd reach boonbeast eventually but I would pretty much bring the end times in WvW if left to me..... Do not believe even for a single moment that whatever you're playing doesn't need nerfs

how about we nerf the ranger and delete the thief class. He plays necro now so.....he'll ask for nerfs on anything that soft couter his new main....so if you're a thief or ranger get ready to be bombarded with nerf threads by @anduriell.6280 .

The idea is that the professions played by the devs don't get nerfed nearly as much... Except you have to make lots of absurd assumptions to conclude that to begin with. Devs aren't special ... they choose to play classes just like you, me, other people ... so the idea that the class that gets the most of fewest nerfs because 'devs' is just nonsense. They put their pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They are likely have the same statistical spread of class playing as any other player in this game. We can say that once we see 3 devs playing an ele or mesmer during their streams...and not seeing 3 of them on necro..so far there have been no streams with anything but necro/warrior and guardian.....who happen to have the most build diversity across the spectrum...such coincidence OK that don't mean nothing. Again, that's some nonsensical thinking that because you don't see a stream with class X ... devs don't play it so therefore, it's nerfville for that class. In addition, we aren't talking about build diversity ... we are talking about balance. Seems to me you're just talking to be disagreeable because you got an axe to grind. Your whole argument sits on baseless assumptions married to whiteknighting . It has been stated before by the devs themselves that during balance meeting each profession receives a number of feedbacks from each dev, the more of them play a certain class...the more feedback it receive and this is the officil statement, now to the analysis given in this thread : that feedback will be biased at subsconscious level where a certain skill should be nerfed by 60%..it will be nerfed by 20% because that feedback will come from a dev actually playing the class..it won't come from the forum circus where Timmy , who is sitting at silver rank , lost to an ele because he spent half match hugging it thinking he wouldn't die...then Timmy proceed to come on the forum and whine how ele is OP...stuff like that. Now where the dev doesn't play the class then really...Timmy will see his wish realized.... Sadly they edited the video where @karl was dieing to Chieftain while showcasing Tempest......and how surprised he was about the low HP of the class

The idea is that the professions played by the devs don't get nerfed nearly as much... Except you have to make lots of absurd assumptions to conclude that to begin with. Devs aren't special ... they choose to play classes just like you, me, other people ... so the idea that the class that gets the most of fewest nerfs because 'devs' is just nonsense. They put their pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They are likely have the same statistical spread of class playing as any other player in this game. We can say that once we see 3 devs playing an ele or mesmer during their streams...and not seeing 3 of them on necro..so far there have been no streams with anything but necro/warrior and guardian.....who happen to have the most build diversity across the spectrum...such coincidence

The idea is that the professions played by the devs don't get nerfed nearly as much...not that they don't receive nerfs......unless you want to go and copy/paste here the comments that say some professions never get nerfed

By that logic guard wouldnt have seen its builds decimated and been relegated to a b-c tier otp. I spent close to 1k hrs on guardian, being it my 3rd main, even went as far as to craft a 3rd legendary armor for it, also I main ele on which I have 8k hrs and in the end I experienced nerfs on both classes: I "cried" for the soft removal of the hammer burst which was my first official to go build on guardian but that didn't stop me from using other different builds ...and that's the fact...nerfs on guardian are always class tailored, so when you lose something ..you always gain something else and that's the opposite of ele where when you get nerfed...that's it..there is nothing to cushion the fall, you lose that gameplay option forever...jump on the next viable build waiting for it to be nerfed out of existence also. So no...I don't need nerfs on guardian and I know exactly what you mean by B-C tier talk but that cannot stop me from telling the truth of the matter : "the professions mained by the devs tend to have an easier life in this game" and I have given a clear logical explanation on why that happens. If you are a dev and play that class, you know what it makes it rumbles...you know what it needs and in what quantities, so the nerfs are not as destructive as with elementalist : they merely nerf the class based on what is being cried on in the forum without bothering to see if the class is still working after the change; they increased the CD on Twist of Fate as people were crying....now the class has a full set of 60s+ CD stunbreaks......they nerfed fire weaver saying too much burning dmg while on guardian I can burn snipe people with Spear of Justice or torch or the sword spirit. The problem with this game and why I don't even bother with it anymore is that the devs themselves don't play their own game and they "balance" based on forum cries so what is not being actively used by few devs...get hacked to death with nerfs making the class virtually unusable...but all is fine as long as Timmy stop crying about it on the forum...that's what I mean with my posts CMC is balancing PvP and he plays the game so you are objectively wrong. You also have 25 second stunbreak that blinds inflicts vulnerability and gives you 25% movement speed out of combat. You have 30s stunbreak that increase damage on your 5 next attacks and they apply conditions, so don't say ele has just 60s + cd stunbreaks. Also CMC is a warrior main why is sidenode warrior not being played all the time by your logic that devs make their clases op? No true warrior main loves playing healbreaker support warrior that is best support in the game right now so don't give me that. The air signet doesn't synergy with any viable strategic trait composition because signets themselves suck outside a niche meme condi tempest build - the glyph is more or less in the same boat...was used for condi weaver initial burst...was as the build is useless anyway now You are wrong, air signet is best stunbreak together with twist on weaver. Best weaver players play it. Not running the trait and not having synergy doesn't matter because its just that good. Glyph is not great but I was just pointing out that there are short cooldown stunbreaks. By that logic guard wouldnt have seen its builds decimated and been relegated to a b-c tier otp. I spent close to 1k hrs on guardian, being it my 3rd main, even went as far as to craft a 3rd legendary armor for it, also I main ele on which I have 8k hrs and in the end I experienced nerfs on both classes: I "cried" for the soft removal of the hammer burst which was my first official to go build on guardian but that didn't stop me from using other different builds ...and that's the fact...nerfs on guardian are always class tailored, so when you lose something ..you always gain something else and that's the opposite of ele where when you get nerfed...that's it..there is nothing to cushion the fall, you lose that gameplay option forever...jump on the next viable build waiting for it to be nerfed out of existence also. So no...I don't need nerfs on guardian and I know exactly what you mean by B-C tier talk but that cannot stop me from telling the truth of the matter : "the professions mained by the devs tend to have an easier life in this game" and I have given a clear logical explanation on why that happens. If you are a dev and play that class, you know what it makes it rumbles...you know what it needs and in what quantities, so the nerfs are not as destructive as with elementalist : they merely nerf the class based on what is being cried on in the forum without bothering to see if the class is still working after the change; they increased the CD on Twist of Fate as people were crying....now the class has a full set of 60s+ CD stunbreaks......they nerfed fire weaver saying too much burning dmg while on guardian I can burn snipe people with Spear of Justice or torch or the sword spirit. The problem with this game and why I don't even bother with it anymore is that the devs themselves don't play their own game and they "balance" based on forum cries so what is not being actively used by few devs...get hacked to death with nerfs making the class virtually unusable...but all is fine as long as Timmy stop crying about it on the forum...that's what I mean with my posts CMC is balancing PvP and he plays the game so you are objectively wrong. You also have 25 second stunbreak that blinds inflicts vulnerability and gives you 25% movement speed out of combat. You have 30s stunbreak that increase damage on your 5 next attacks and they apply conditions, so don't say ele has just 60s + cd stunbreaks. Also CMC is a warrior main why is sidenode warrior not being played all the time by your logic that devs make their clases op? No true warrior main loves playing healbreaker support warrior that is best support in the game right now so don't give me that. His balancing is just like his gameplay mechanical skills, I wont say if its good or bad, if you know, you know. The thing that he played ele makes it even more hillarious after seeing 'updates' on this class. I think his balancing of weaver is good and fire weaver is in a very good spot. Tempest nerfs (not bugfixes) however weren't the best. And core ele is unfixable, you buff core to be in okay spot tempest/weaver are broken. good balance means that the enemy can effectively kill you without being oppressive....an enemy unable to outplay you is not good balance. Weaver has good balance? .....lol......and about core ele, there are many ways to buff core ele without affecting the elite specs and having a strong core class doesn't seem to be a problem with everything else but engi possibly P.S you may want to cut on the pointless "personal BIAS" talk, I can effectively play 5 different professions, enough to be a threat in most situations, ofc I won't go and say "I am this and that" as right now I don't spend nearly as much time as before in GW2, but still I have playable knowledge of 5 different professions [ele-ranger-warrior-guardian and necro] shared across a 12k+ hrs experiencen from the last 8 years. The only reason why I am still here is because I can play other professions outside ele and did so for years now....if you want to point fingers looking for your common "main class Bias"...do so in another direction So how would you buff core ele but not make elite specs broken? What are you talking about? Quote me where I accused someone of main bias? You are the one accusing Anet balance team of biased balancing. You may wanna cut on saying things that are not true. @McPero.3287Saying balancing has been bad is also just wrong game has been getting progressively better after PoF launch disaster and CMC has more braincells than to listen to unreasonable mains crying on forums why their class is weak and how other class is OP. " How to make core ele viable again?-Adding a 5th attunement mechanic, they have the technical abilities as shown with Core rev , mesmer shatter, necro shroud, warrior burst mechanic etc etc etc That would be an example, there are many more in the 16+ pages thread in ele subforum and the only objection against buffing ele is ....never a legitimate one , you consider people on the forum as unreasonable for pointing out the bias at design level, it has been explained before already, the bias you think of it's not the one exposed here : nobody here thinks that a dev go and directly modify a profession consciously , the biased balance happens at subconscious level , despite of what idolatry you may have for Anet..at the end of the day they're still human. The truth is that elementalist is stuck with the GW 2012 design ideology which was more closely related to GW1 aka skill and efforts = Rewards ; an ideology that doesn't sit well with the "insta gratification" generation , these days people play a class that does 1-2-3 and deal massive aoe dmg ....deluding themselves in thinking to be the hottest thing around. You realise adding 5th attunement to core ele would lead to Anet having to develop 20 new skills for weapons, that attunement wouldn't have it's traitline (if 5th element is arcane, arcane traitline needs to be reworked, which would make it unplayable for weaver/tempest). What they did for other core specs were minor changes adding maybe 1 button 1 mechanic. What you are proposing here is that core ele gets a rework in size of a new elite spec. Not to mention it would actually break PvE balance potentially. CMC can currently only change numbers as far as I am aware so he can't do what you propose even if he wanted to. Only way to make core ele be in line with weaver, tempest is that weaver, tempest traitlines and mechanics get their numbers nerfed by quite a lot and then to compensate utility, elite, heal and weapon skills get massive buffs. Can you seriously stop with this? I am not talking about any bias. Most elite specs were powercrept at some point and some still are. And yes core ele together with core engineer are by far worst specs in PvP. But to say that core ele is more skillful than some of the elite specs is laughable. Yes some elite specs are just mindless spam. Core ele being bad doesn't make it skillful it's just bad. The problem of ele becoming forced to be a healbot, has been pointed out to Anet for years, since Oct 2012 where even a famous mesmer from Team Paradigm ( can't remember his name, it started with Ta..something) pointed out to Anet during a stream with @Jonathan Sharp , how ele was too focused on healing burst to work properly. These devs always take the easy way out of everything ....

There's still a ranger build that's extremely strong in melee range.70-90% protection uptime60-80% stability uptime Both counters reaper extremely hard. You can't land critical stuns because of the stab uptime and prot uptime makes you look like trying to hit the ranger with a wet noodle. Obviously it's not what OP is playing, else OP wouldn't have issues with reapers It's like 90% of thief/ranger nerf threads are populated by necro players...oh wait, it reminds me of those "nerf diamond skin" thread, one necro would start a new one every other day lol Not really, I recently played ranger for a bit, with different builds. And it basically doesn't have even one matchup, that's basically lost from the beginning just by class matchup.It's easy to kill a lot of builds, not many enemy builds needed real effort, and you can basically always run away, if you feel like you are loosing, because you made a mistake.Which is the definition of overpowered, or let's say, overtunedThere is not a single class you haven't called OP from what I remember ....as long as it can kill necro with the same level of effort..it is OP...I must give you guys credit where is due...: out of all MMO communities, the GW2 one is the most entitled, whining and deluded and you guys in this game managed to reach the top spot only recently, went as far as overtaking WoW forum in terms of whining Nerf this and nerf that...nerf everything that kills me. Also "my class takes skill...yours doesn't" ........it took me 1 day to learn just core necro condi...."my class takes skill" my behind, the class design ins this game can be handled by a 10 years old, I can literally roam on every single class...I may not win every single fight on every class that I didn't use for months but....I would have enough material to cover those stupid "roaming montages" you lot keep in high esteem

Honestly MMO forums are such a drag these days...just individuals asking for nerfs on anything that kills them.....those same people then try to defend their toy when it gets too OP as nothing can kill them. "My profession takes skills.....yours doesn't"...that's like the line of almost every individual in this forum, it was fun at time to go through these pages but honestly.....it's not even fun anymore...god "Oh ranger killed me from 1500 range.....OP.....ele killed me with burning...OP.......guardian killed me with burning.....OP.........thief bursted me .........OP..........." here let me give you the perfect solution : https://elderscrolls.bethesda.net/en/skyrim Then after you install it...use these : https://www.ign.com/wikis/the-elder-scrolls-5-skyrim/PC_Console_Command_Cheats Let me tell you one more thing : most of you don't become better at playing with time....everything else around you gets exponentially worst with Anet going even as far as buffing you on the other hand. People complain about burning...whatever you're running is not remotely close to be fair to play and play against that's how MMOs work and that's something I came to accept with time.

Anet hates elementalist, all the devs play necro during streams, although with ele you can still beat below trash level players.....not a hard feat in this game...about necro vs ele, I was able to kill an "experienced" weaver in less than 30s while using a condi core necro.....with less than 24 hrs on it, nothing you can do...dodge, dodge, F1, condi burst -fear-fear..dead ele Honestly, you're wasting time on ele, move your armor to necro, you can learn core necro within 1 day with reaper needing few days at most...and scourge is really pointless to me, it's just a walking condi field Weaver is a pretty strong roamer which can delete anybody if you know how to play it which is not easy i have to admit. Tempest is a legit spot in squads as support.I wouldn't say Anet hates ele, ele is in a vey good spot at the moment. My experience is Necro is fine, as very well others had said it is enough to have some CC and you can fight any necro. The counter is very clear and you don't need to buy bundles from merchants (like stealth still needs) to be able to fight it. Whining threads because kids don't want to equip any CC, cleanses or vitality are not helpful in my opinion and should be disregarded. If any other case maybe nerf a bit the damage from Lich Form autos: 5K autos are not OK. But anything else is fine, a necro can be really tanky and dangerous but it has counters. Forum language translation : -"This class is balanced and pretty strong" - translation = "That class is pretty shit and garbage but I don't play it so great for me" -"There is plenty of counterplay to this class" - translation - "I play this class and I want it to stay as it is" -"That class is broken and they should delete/nerf that and that" - translation - "That class counters me pretty hard unless I outplay them" Anytime somebody says :" that class is balanced".....you can be sure as hell that class is absolute shit/garbage tier...if that class would be even remotely decent you'd see whining threads all over the forum.

Full time necro now....you just change flag as you change professions

There's still a ranger build that's extremely strong in melee range.70-90% protection uptime60-80% stability uptime Both counters reaper extremely hard. You can't land critical stuns because of the stab uptime and prot uptime makes you look like trying to hit the ranger with a wet noodle. Obviously it's not what OP is playing, else OP wouldn't have issues with reapers It's like 90% of thief/ranger nerf threads are populated by necro players...oh wait, it reminds me of those "nerf diamond skin" thread, one necro would start a new one every other day lol