The WvW Skirmish Reward Track Takes Far Too Long To Complete

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

Title should sum it up. Just go here, put in the lowest possible pip gains, and be amazed.

 

Assuming low personal rank for new players, assume last place, and assume not outnumbered.

 

40 hours. It takes FORTY HOURS to earn all of the rewards in a week at the lowest rate. An actual full-time job. Even if you assume average gains, you're asking far too much of a player to put in 4+ hours per day into a single part of the game when there are other aspects of it that demand attention. 

 

It shouldn't be something you just casually do, like capping arena points in WoW, but it also does not need to take nearly as long as it does and needs reform. Even the system where higher ranks offer faster progress with more pips per tick is fundamentally broken, because by the time you're at that rank, you've likely unlocked everything useful anyway. 

[Cyninja.2954]

Lucky enough, your assumptions are almost mutually exclusive.

 

1. clearing wood chest the week prior already drops your 40 hours to 36 by granting 1 extra pip. Nothing unreasonable to do

2. attaining rank 150 is very attainable even with casual play. That's already down to 29 hours

3. if your server is last in the match-up for a majority of time, there are high chances that you will have outnumbered available on at least 1 map, if not multiple. If your server is not last in match-up for a majority, then we are already down to 24 (server is 2nd) or even 20 hours (server is first)

 

Finally: you are not required to clear diamond chest from the get go. You can, but that is definitely a personal goal you are setting. I guess those other aspects which demand attention will have to wait if you are this ambitious.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Abyssisis.3971]

Agreed, and it’s why I suggested that the commitment pip be changed to scale rather than +1 for completing wood track.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/100163-reward-track-pips-“commitment”/?tab=comments#comment-1441577

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Abyssisis.3971

[ArchonWing.9480]

Diamond chests are pretty overrated. I mean you aren't wrong. There is really no point to put in 40 hours to get 4 mystic coins. Tickets aren't really good for much besides legendaries and maybe ascended earrings, but there are way better ways to get the later even in wvw.

 

I am mithril rank and usually end up finishing platinum or mithril, so I indeed don't see the problem with not finishing diamond. I am super causal these days though I understand a lower rank would get much less.

 

I do seriously think the base pips for low rank is very low though.

 

If you ask me though, I think reward tracks already fill the role for casual play. I would have no complaint about speeding those up though. I would prefer higher quality rewards, rather than 35 pieces of junk, some of which can't be stacked.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Junkpile.7439]

Should take max 20 hour or something, but it's not like you need to get max tickets. There is lot's of stuff in pve that is too boring or take too long so i don't do them or get them done like after 9 years.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Junkpile.7439

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm doing it for legendary armor right now.  22 weeks at 24 hours a week is pretty brutal.  I don't see how any normal person is reasonably expected to accomplish this, since it is essentially a part-time job on top of whatever else they do. 

[Metzie.3012]

41 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I'm doing it for legendary armor right now.  22 weeks at 24 hours a week is pretty brutal.  I don't see how any normal person is reasonably expected to accomplish this, since it is essentially a part-time job on top of whatever else they do. 

 

It may seem "brutal" to one (you) or the other. However, once you have the "legendary armor", you won't need anything else afterwards - because there is nothing better. And with the legendary armory, the value is even greater. For my part, I think it is reasonable that something takes longer, if the effort is in relation to the benefit!

[Metzie.3012]

Quote

The WvW Skirmish Reward Track Takes Far Too Long To Complete

 

For my taste, the weekly pip reward track is generally outdated - rather in terms of the gold or the final chest (...). However, as mentioned by others, there are several options to reduce the duration or time required to complete the full path faster.

 

See: Skirmish reward track

 

But now that it's official that WvW is a cornerstone of the game, it's safe to assume that - according to ANet's time calculation - it will be revised (someday). 😆

 

However, until that is or will be, it certainly wouldn't take much effort to upgrade the current "pip reward track, the gold or the final chest" a bit (as an example with 2+ mystic clover or something similar).

Edited August 23, 2021 by Metzie.3012

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1) Skirmish does take too long to complete starting from nothing

2) With investment in the game mode this drops to half the amount of time in a reasonable amount of time.

3) There is no reason for the commitment pips to not scale with previously completed tiers.

4) The rewards can also be better than they are now.

[Dawdler.8521]

I know people that finishes diamond saturday afternoon.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I know people that finishes diamond saturday afternoon.

Yeah, a public commander at max ranks with the highest war score can do it in 7.2 hrs of play time. If they miraculously stay on outnumbered maps that entire time it takes only 5.5 hours.  But we aren't concerned about them.

[Zikory.6871]

This is mentality problem. Not everything needs to be grinded out in the most optimized time frame. WvW isn't like PvE where it gets new maps and metas for new/different rewards. It's supposed to be a long term option while playing a 24/7 weekly game mode. 

I'm high enough rank that I complete diamond in my normal weekly play time. I 100% think the low rank / new player experience needs improvement but not in a way that punishes higher rank players for being high rank. So I disagree with more pips for lower ranks. 

However, I think the XP required for lower ranks should be lowered. Currently the first 5 ranks are 1000xp and all ranks after are 5000xp. 2500xp needed for the either first 500 ranks (Mistforged Triumphant Hero's armor) OR the first 1226 ranks (total to complete all current WvW masteries) seems like a decent compromise. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

This is mentality problem. Not everything needs to be grinded out in the most optimized time frame. WvW isn't like PvE where it gets new maps and metas for new/different rewards. It's supposed to be a long term option while playing a 24/7 weekly game mode. 

I'm high enough rank that I complete diamond in my normal weekly play time. I 100% think the low rank / new player experience needs improvement but not in a way that punishes higher rank players for being high rank. So I disagree with more pips for lower ranks. 

However, I think the XP required for lower ranks should be lowered. Currently the first 5 ranks are 1000xp and all ranks after are 5000xp. 2500xp needed for the either first 500 ranks (Mistforged Triumphant Hero's armor) OR the first 1226 ranks (total to complete all current WvW masteries) seems like a decent compromise. 

Does that mean people who have already earned those ranks should get WXP potions in recompense to renormalize their ranks in that new system?

[Gorani.7205]

8 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I'm doing it for legendary armor right now.  22 weeks at 24 hours a week is pretty brutal.  I don't see how any normal person is reasonably expected to accomplish this, since it is essentially a part-time job on top of whatever else they do. 

This applies for me too.

It would help to spread out the tickets more evenly (taking away a few tickets off the top and adding them to the lower chests), so that the people with less game time feel a more substantial progression, while the top players still get the same amount when they finish Diamond chest.

There are other ideas on the table, like letting us cash in Emblems and Badges on a weekly trader, but ANet has not been very vocal about how or even when they will tweak the WvW reward system.

We should not forget that that special events boost your WxP gain and current reward track, but never the pips earned per tick, so better ticket gain only comes from a secondary gain by having a high WvW rank.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I love that my idea for a weekly trader has gained so much traction.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

33 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Does that mean people who have already earned those ranks should get WXP potions in recompense to renormalize their ranks in that new system?

Quite simply, yes.

[Zikory.6871]

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Does that mean people who have already earned those ranks should get WXP potions in recompense to renormalize their ranks in that new system?

While I personally don't feel entitled to that WXP, I could see how that would feel to players close to the selected rank for reduced WXP. 

However, I'd have to say no. Mainly because of the amount of WXP prorated. I'm not sure how I would feel about granting ~2500 ranks to everyone above rank 500 (Numbers based on my random choices).

Edited August 23, 2021 by Zikory.6871

[Infusion.7149]

Nobody is forcing you to complete it.

In about 8 hours of gameplay you should be able to get roughly gold tier (about half of the tickets) even if you have no WvW rank.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

50 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

While I personally don't feel entitled to that WXP, I could see how that would feel to players close to the selected rank for reduced WXP. 

However, I'd have to say no. Mainly because of the amount of WXP prorated. I'm not sure how I would feel about granting ~2500 ranks to everyone above rank 500 (Numbers based on my random choices).

See, I'd have to disagree with you on that. Each person has some amount of WXP they have earned and if you change the scaling on the lower end you then are changing the value of the WXP that people have earned relative to what rank they are. It only makes sense to rescale their Ranks as a result.

It is honestly not the best solution. The problem with WvW is how much of it is feast vs famine in regards to rewards and how tiered they are based on rank. The change someone put forward in another thread to scale commitment based on the amount completed the week prior alleviates a good portion of the feast/famine ratio, and part of the OP's issue.
 

42 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Nobody is forcing you to complete it.

In about 8 hours of gameplay you should be able to get roughly gold tier (about half of the tickets) even if you have no WvW rank.

At OP, you need to take this to heart. Don't even try to complete Diamond in the beginning, just focus on the mode, learning it, getting better, and gaining ranks. Once you hit rank 150, then I'd worry about hitting Plat or Mithril. If you can reliably find an outnumbered map, then try to get as far as you can. Once you hit rank 650 it becomes reliably easier to get Diamond.

[Xenesis.6389]

The skirmish track is backloaded for the tickets, it should be uniform through all the ranks.

 

I would say more, but I know how this community is, we can't have nice things for wvw.

[Zikory.6871]

30 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

See, I'd have to disagree with you on that. Each person has some amount of WXP they have earned and if you change the scaling on the lower end you then are changing the value of the WXP that people have earned relative to what rank they are. It only makes sense to rescale their Ranks as a result.

It is honestly not the best solution.

Well, I'd say its a decent compromise. Solution is a pretty strong word for the idea I offered. 

My suggestion is more about adjusting WXP for low rank players to rank up faster and get to ranks where they start feeling rewarded for their time. As I feel adjusting WXP is the better play than pips. So if adjusting everyone rank is what it takes, then that's fine. Like I said, I don't feel entitled to those ranks or WXP but I understand others do. I get 500+ ranks means a lot more to lower rank people than it would to me. 

[Infusion.7149]

I would say WXP doesn't need to be adjusted since people could just run boosters , if skirmish tracks are leveled off it would be okay.
A far larger issue is the WVW masteries need 1K+ ranks to max , that should be a priority.

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:10 AM, Metzie.3012 said:

 

It may seem "brutal" to one (you) or the other. However, once you have the "legendary armor", you won't need anything else afterwards - because there is nothing better. And with the legendary armory, the value is even greater. For my part, I think it is reasonable that something takes longer, if the effort is in relation to the benefit!

IMO this is even more of a reason why it's a dreadfully bad system. It exists solely for this one purpose, but has no real one afterwards. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I got to Gold tier in just one night with only Silver rank and completing Wood last week. Its really not that bad.

 

But all ranks below 500 should definitely require less XP, maybe even half.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:50 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

Lucky enough, your assumptions are almost mutually exclusive.

 

1. clearing wood chest the week prior already drops your 40 hours to 36 by granting 1 extra pip. Nothing unreasonable to do

2. attaining rank 150 is very attainable even with casual play. That's already down to 29 hours

3. if your server is last in the match-up for a majority of time, there are high chances that you will have outnumbered available on at least 1 map, if not multiple. If your server is not last in match-up for a majority, then we are already down to 24 (server is 2nd) or even 20 hours (server is first)

 

Finally: you are not required to clear diamond chest from the get go. You can, but that is definitely a personal goal you are setting. I guess those other aspects which demand attention will have to wait if you are this ambitious.

20 hours dedicated weekly to one piece of content in this game is still totally reasonable. You'll never actually get that in the hypothetical you created because odds are the server will not be in first for the majority of the matchup

 

It's absurd to pretend outnumbered can last more than one or two ticks. And no, attaining rank 150 might be easy, but it isn't something you're going to do in a week. I've been in WvW long enough to reach Mithril this week and have only gone from about 250-280.

 

Even if a new player somehow did this in the most efficient and fast way possible, you're still asking them to sink in 20 hours of freetime per week to finish out things that take too long as is. Not to mention progress is outright gated behind a 5 minute arbitrary timer which cannot be sped up in any way. Performing well in sPvP as an example allows you to gain more pips per match, yet capping towers, camps, keeps, and SMC in WvW rewards nothing, not even 1 pip, just more war score. 

 

Entire system needs to be reformed, especially with WoW crashing and burning. Massive chance for Anet to capture a chunk of the audience rather than let them flock to the mediocre FF, but it seems like they're content to leave broken and stupid things in the game (beta specs in Ranked sPvP as a basic example).