Nerf Necromancer

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I feel like 33% dmg reduction still might not be enough, especially since they can stack protection on top of it.  But I'd be OK with starting with 33%; it would still be impactful.  Heck, at this point, I'd be grateful for anything.

 

I'd also really like to see Lich auto attacks nerfed hard.  There is no reason for a class as tanky and with as much damage and utility as necro to be able to suddenly start popping off with 6k auto attacks.  Maybe some of the other lich skills can get a little love to help compensate for it, but there needs to be more skill involved than just spamming "1" to get 6k ranged autos.

There are counters to Lich AA though. Shoot, run shield mastery and reflect them back at the Lich and watch them melt themselves. Hell, I've face tanked lich AA with warrior longbow and wove my three blinds in-between other attacks. Followed up with BC once they drop out of Lich and stab expires into Axe 5 into F for the stomp.

 

Could it use a damage nerf? Yeah, but not the extent that some people think.

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Did you realize that harbinger does not have the second life bar everyone here is complaining about? Harbinger is pretty much the opposite of the current necro specs in terms of gameplay. It is a hit and run spec and most necro players had a hard time getting into the spec in the beta.

There was exactly one viable harbinger build in the beta which maximized vitality and condi damage without any compromizes. Everything slightly more glassy got destroyed cause of its squishiness - not even talking about marauder harbinger here, which is complete trash (bait its 2 dodges and then have a freekill).

harbinger heals for over 1000 health every sec, no it doeasnt have a shroud, but it doesnt even kittening need it lol

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There are counters to Lich AA though. Shoot, run shield mastery and reflect them back at the Lich and watch them melt themselves. Hell, I've face tanked lich AA with warrior longbow and wove my three blinds in-between other attacks. Followed up with BC once they drop out of Lich and stab expires into Axe 5 into F for the stomp.

 

Could it use a damage nerf? Yeah, but not the extent that some people think.

Oh I'm very aware of how to play around Lich. But if you happen to have shield stance and endure pain on CD, you better hope to God there is something you can get behind, and fast. Oh yeah, and their ripple of horror breaks your block, too.

 

Nothing sucks worse than completely outplaying a Necro only for them to pop lich and suddenly it's game over because 2 of your skills are on CD or there's nowhere to hide. It's low skill BS.

 

On the other hand, give rampage +1000 precision and 6k auto attacks and at least then we'll have a fair fight.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Oh I'm very aware of how to play around Lich. But if you happen to have shield stance and endure pain on CD, you better hope to God there is something you can get behind, and fast. Oh yeah, and their ripple of horror breaks your block, too.

 

Nothing sucks worse than completely outplaying a Necro only for them to pop lich and suddenly it's game over because 2 of your skills are on CD or there's nowhere to hide. It's low skill BS.

 

On the other hand, give rampage +1000 precision and 6k auto attacks and at least then we'll have a fair fight.

But rampage has CCs and those are their own rewards 🙃 Seriously though give it +1000 precision and 6k autos and see how much necros complain about it.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

33 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

But rampage has CCs and those are their own rewards 🙃 Seriously though give it +1000 precision and 6k autos and see how much necros complain about it.

Music to my ears.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

I know it was not that obvious but I was trolling.

Don't put that mindset past people here. You'd be surprised.

Quote

My real suggestion on how to balance nec would be to nerf shroud generation and actually keep the 50% damage reduction.

Why? Well because the good necs would save that hard gained lf to facetank burst while the bad ones would spamm it off cd and therefore won't be able to survive a burst. Nerfing the damage reduction and keeping shroud generation will only blurry a little more the line between good nec and bad nec. It's like with thief: instead of increasing "overperforming" skills' initiatives, they should add a mechanism to punish those who are like "333333333333333333333".  But that's off topic.

Fair enough~

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

But rampage has CCs and those are their own rewards 🙃 Seriously though give it +1000 precision and 6k autos and see how much necros complain about it.

This kills me because when that whole "rampage is an I win button" fiasco was going on, it was often Necros advocating for it being nerfed because they were the weakest against CC. 

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

58 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This kills me because when that whole "rampage is an I win button" fiasco was going on, it was often Necros advocating for it being nerfed because they were the weakest against CC. 

 

No special mode should be an "I win" button. Rampage is probably in an OK spot right now, although I wouldn't mind if its damage were a little bit lower. Lich is just ridiculously OP, though, especially because it has an unlockable fear (with 1/4s cast time) in combination with 6k AAs.

 

It's fine for special modes to offer utility and survivability, but any increased offense needs to be very carefully balanced so they don't become the "I win" button you described. Especially when it's on a class that is already as loaded with both offense and defense like Necro.

[Spellhunter.9675]

7 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

harbinger heals for over 1000 health every sec, no it doeasnt have a shroud, but it doesnt even kittening need it lol

Like we do not have burst in the game and people are running around dealing 600 dps via autos and never focusing one target. That sustain is useless. It could be usefull for sidenoding, but necro has nothing to deal with +1 so you can't make a proper sidenoder. But I still expect anet to nerf harbinger sustain bcoz of crybabies who actually can't do more than 1000 dps. After that harbinger will be garbage.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

9 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

harbinger heals for over 1000 health every sec, no it doeasnt have a shroud, but it doesnt even kittening need it lol

Yea, only if you don't have any stacks of Blight, it's decent sustain if blight is less than 10, but the moment you cross that line you're pretty much dead. :')

[Arheundel.6451]

15 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Did you realize that harbinger does not have the second life bar everyone here is complaining about? Harbinger is pretty much the opposite of the current necro specs in terms of gameplay. It is a hit and run spec and most necro players had a hard time getting into the spec in the beta.

There was exactly one viable harbinger build in the beta which maximized vitality and condi damage without any compromizes. Everything slightly more glassy got destroyed cause of its squishiness - not even talking about marauder harbinger here, which is complete trash (bait its 2 dodges and then have a freekill).

It would be pointless at this point to discuss about ideologies, people have different idea for "self sustain", some people would consider themselves satisfied with sustain only when they can easily tank damage from multiple sources for a considerable amount of time; by contrast other people would be happy with just winning that 1v1 in that far corner.

Instead I want to bring attention to these new elite traitlines : I want to show people how biased and skewed is the design system for this game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harbinger

VS

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Catalyst

For Harbinger: I see clarity, a strategy and specific paths for gameplay, I see what builds these devs want to see played, there is synergy within the traitline and with others.

For Catalyst: I see a bunch of undertuned traits that offer little to no boost to sustain or damage, no decent passive minor like extra HP or armor...nothing and on top of that they add a 2 hand weapon with low dmg and a single block on a 20/30s CD.

This thread like many is not random, these devs are extremely biased towards necromancer and for exactly the reasons I listed

Edited November 24, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Morwath.9817]

Thats why I have been saying, don't nerf necros. Make other classes traits, weapons and utilities as good, with synergy and thought behind them...

[mortrialus.3062]

11 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

harbinger heals for over 1000 health every sec, no it doeasnt have a shroud, but it doesnt even kittening need it lol

During their demo weekend I was seeing  people post games with1,000,000 self healing every game in PvP on harbinger.

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Yea, only if you don't have any stacks of Blight, it's decent sustain if blight is less than 10, but the moment you cross that line you're pretty much dead. :')

good thing there is 0 reason to use blight, you enter shround for 2-3s and then leave

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Like we do not have burst in the game and people are running around dealing 600 dps via autos and never focusing one target. That sustain is useless. It could be usefull for sidenoding, but necro has nothing to deal with +1 so you can't make a proper sidenoder. But I still expect anet to nerf harbinger sustain bcoz of crybabies who actually can't do more than 1000 dps. After that harbinger will be garbage.

other then it still has its usual necro kiting skills, like spectral walk, wurm port, and extra dash and evade in shroud. its not a I get +1 I die spec, you kite with it very well, and you resustain almost instantly.
I 1v1 a reaper with it in the arena and he couldnt kill me 1v1 despite me being afk.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

4 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

> that sustain is useless

Just saying warrior's signet was nerfed to the ground for much less.

(and since we're on topic, this applies to mechanist's healing signet as well, but we'll cross that line at a later time)

[Leonidrex.5649]

55 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

During their demo weekend I was seeing  people post games with1,000,000 self healing every game in PvP on harbinger.

I played 1 game and got over 670k healing, so I can see that being easily the case.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I played 1 game and got over 670k healing, so I can see that being easily the case.

Over in WvW land it can get pumped to close to 2k healing per tick, its all realtive to your max vitality and has nothing to do with healing power. Adrenal Health and Healing Signet we gutted for less.

Harbinger is going to be one of those specs that will never die unless they want to.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Over in WvW land it can get pumped to close to 2k healing per tick, its all realtive to your max vitality and has nothing to do with healing power. Adrenal Health and Healing Signet we gutted for less.

Harbinger is going to be one of those specs that will never die unless they want to.

ye I noticed, and they can use shroud any time to disengage. and I noticed pistol had enough sustained damage to be worth camping
all around bad spec for pvp but that is nothing new, all necro specs are degenerate in their own different ways.

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Over in WvW land it can get pumped to close to 2k healing per tick, its all realtive to your max vitality and has nothing to do with healing power. Adrenal Health and Healing Signet we gutted for less.

Harbinger is going to be one of those specs that will never die unless they want to.

Well....accordingly to necro main, Harbinger is super squishy....the gw2 community is something else for certain

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

other then it still has its usual necro kiting skills, like spectral walk, wurm port, and extra dash and evade in shroud. its not a I get +1 I die spec, you kite with it very well, and you resustain almost instantly.
I 1v1 a reaper with it in the arena and he couldnt kill me 1v1 despite me being afk.

Maybe you are right. Since I'm the worst 1v1 player in the game I never considered to even try sidenoding. But still, I believe harbinger will be too vulnarable to +1 from rev and thief. It don't have enough tools to kite them properly. And wurm won't save you.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Well....accordingly to necro main, Harbinger is super squishy....the gw2 community is something else for certain

The Necro Mains are used to shroud tanking for them. Harbinger just inverses the situation. You flash into Harbinger Shroud for quick damage spikes/to use the mobility skills, then you get out ASAP to minimize the blight. 

[Morwath.9817]

You guys need to realize, that not only Harbinger, but Necromancer overall has to be most tanky, because it has no i-frames on weapons (not sure about pistols). Give it multiple leaps, block, evade and second heal and then you can make it as squishy as Revenant.

 

And yes, I would prefer Shroud to not exist and have as potent skills as Necro had in GW1, but I bet half of you would just uninstall right away after getting Spiteful Spirit or Life Transfer on yourself... 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

4 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

You guys need to realize, that not only Harbinger, but Necromancer overall has to be most tanky, because it has no i-frames on weapons (not sure about pistols). Give it multiple leaps, block, evade and second heal and then you can make it as squishy as Revenant.

 

And yes, I would prefer Shroud to not exist and have as potent skills as Necro had in GW1, but I bet half of you would just uninstall right away after getting Spiteful Spirit or Life Transfer on yourself... 

You're right; Necro does need to be tanky. But it doesn't need to be as tanky as it currently is. Reduce the damage reduction in shroud to 25% and it would be fine. A whole second health bar with 25% damage reduction is PLENTY, esp when they get to back it up with fear chain, lots of cover condis, a couple TPs, etc. 

[LucianDK.8615]

The necromancer dps tanks without shroud. They cannot be healed in shroud.

Harbingers have already lost the lifeforce to healing. And their mobility skills was nerfed.