Have we seen what the Catalyst trade-off is?

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

Most elite specs lose something from the Core profession (even if what replaces it is better). For example, Weaver has individual attunement cooldowns replaced by a global cooldown, the new Bladesworn loses weapon swap and normal burst skills, etc. I haven't noticed anything like that in the Catalyst showcase, has anyone else?

[lLobo.7960]

looses access to tempest and weaver traitlines.

[Emberheart.8426]

I don't think that there actually is a trade-off for this spec. Makes me hope that this means that they are looking for core ele additions or reworks in the post-EoD rebalancing. There is no way they did not consider adding a trade-off since they really wanted to make sure to add them to all EoD elite specs.

[AshenOwl.2485]

The trade off is you're a melee-focused spec who will still go down against trash mobs

[Exzen.2976]

To be fair, Tempest has no trade off either.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Except the 20sec on affinity recharge after overload, none elem spec has trade-off.
4sec on attunement swap on weaver rather than 1.3sec ? Less with arcane, alacrity, Unravel, Weave self ? I don't call that a tradeoff, weaver is just elementalist, but stronger, faster, in almost all aspects.

 

Looks like it'll be the same on this spec. But honestly, what could we expect has tradeoff ? Less elements ? Longer CD on attunement swap /affinity recharge ? It'll just break the class.

[Zunki.3916]

We have not seen the first minor trait that gives the weapon. Also we dont know the attunment swap CDs, not sure if they are core or modified.

[Arheundel.6451]

24 minutes ago, Exzen.2976 said:

To be fair, Tempest has no trade off either.

ele has already plenty of tradeoff compared to other professions : low HP, melee range focus, no weapon swap......what are the real tradeoff on other professions like : engineer with scrapper and holosmith? -no tradeoff here either , guardian with dragon hunter and firebrand? - the elite virtues are better version of the core virtues in most cases...those are actually 2.0 versions...and I could go on and on

[Avead.5760]

Core badly needs an f5 . Something simple like recharge all your attunements x sec CD and maybe get a buff based on current att.

Boom now catalyst has a trade of, no elite spec was buffed in the process and maybe just maybe core sucks a bit less..

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Blazing Rathalos.1904 said:

Most elite specs lose something from the Core profession (even if what replaces it is better). For example, Weaver has individual attunement cooldowns replaced by a global cooldown, the new Bladesworn loses weapon swap and normal burst skills, etc. I haven't noticed anything like that in the Catalyst showcase, has anyone else?

We lose dignity as Range Casters.

[Puck.3697]

37 minutes ago, tesnow.4721 said:

The trade off is you're a melee-focused spec who will still go down against trash mobs

Except Elementalist actually doesnt.. its mad its actually beleived to be this squishy

It isnt Melee, its Damaging Abilities are 600-900 Ranged abilities. which is Notably Not melee, like i hope people are meming with these comments.. Elementalist isnt this squishy it actually has a ton of Active Survivability people just hurrduurr in and face tank a load of damage and somehow expect to survive.

Catalyst isnt a Glass Cannon so its likely going to have higher sustain but Lower Damage then Weaver. it has access to utility and Supporting abilities..

Its going to be somewhere between Tempest and Weaver as a proper hybrid.

the key concerns are its utilities and elites look rather weak.

[draxynnic.3719]

42 minutes ago, Exzen.2976 said:

To be fair, Tempest has no trade off either.

This. People claim the overload cooldown as a "tradeoff", but that's not a tradeoff for picking Tempest, that's just a tradeoff for using an ability. It'd be like someone claiming that the longer cooldown on Firebrand or Dragonhunter virtues is a tradeoff. It's not, the tradeoff there is losing access to the core virtues.

 

Problem is, elementalist is in a state where applying a tradeoff to its specialisations would just be kicking them when they're down anyway (keep in mind, for instance, that the harsh one-pet-only tradeoff on Soulbeast came at a time when Soulbeast was already proving dominant enough to attract a nerf). Elementalist is also a hard profession to apply tradeoffs to, since there's not much you can do apart from tweaking how the attunements works. Like revenant, it should probably have something added to core rather than nerfing the elite specialisations.

[Zzik.5873]

19 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

ele has already plenty of tradeoff compared to other professions : low HP, melee range focus, no weapon swap......what are the real tradeoff on other professions like : engineer with scrapper and holosmith? -no tradeoff here either , guardian with dragon hunter and firebrand? - the elite virtues are better version of the core virtues in most cases...those are actually 2.0 versions...and I could go on and on

I main engi and yeah we have a tradeoff: Both Holo and scrapper loose acces to the elite toolbelt "F5" scarpper loose about 200 vitality and his class mechanic dpes not work with condi. Holo, can remove 50% of his HP if the player make a mistake in heat management wich is a huge tradeoff.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Except Elementalist actually doesnt.. its mad its actually beleived to be this squishy

It isnt Melee, its Damaging Abilities are 600-900 Ranged abilities. which is Notably Not melee, like i hope people are meming with these comments.. Elementalist isnt this squishy it actually has a ton of Active Survivability people just hurrduurr in and face tank a load of damage and somehow expect to survive.

Catalyst isnt a Glass Cannon so its likely going to have higher sustain but Lower Damage then Weaver. it has access to utility and Supporting abilities..

Its going to be somewhere between Tempest and Weaver as a proper hybrid.

the key concerns are its utilities and elites look rather weak.

 

I agree elementalist has a lot of damage mitigation utilities.

Frost aura, the tempest trait on protection, obsidian flesh, vapor form, rock barrier, earth shield conjured weapon, grinding stones, earth traitlane, weaveself, barriers, evades etc, etc, etc.

But you forgot you actually need to build for it; these skills, traits are not free and they rarely have "double" usages. While some have sustain included in their "DPS" build, or that can do different usages too ; for example the -5% damage per sand shade, or the lifesteal trait for reaper, the heal when you earn a boon on reaper, engie, quickness on a BS, the aegis spam, tomes on f2-f3 ....  You can be a pur tank on elem in PvP, and may bein silver/gold one of the strongest particulary with weaver spamming evades and barriers, but overall most of classes have better "passive" sustain and skills, trait with double usages and allow them to be more enduring with less risks, more "versatile", while on counter-intuitively on elem you need to specialize with huge drawbacks.

 

Otherwise it doesn't seem hammer has a lot of sustain. I have seen a block on earth I think, and that's all ... sword has barrier, evades, polaric leap ...

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

I agree elementalist has a lot of damage mitigation utilities.

Frost aura, the tempest trait on protection, obsidian flesh, vapor form, rock barrier, earth shield conjured weapon, grinding stones, earth traitlane, weaveself, barriers, evades etc, etc, etc.

But you forgot you actually need to build for it; these skills, traits are not free and they rarely have "double" usages. While some have sustain included in their "DPS" build, or that can do different usages too ; for example the -5% damage per sand shade, or the lifesteal trait for reaper, the heal when you earn a boon on reaper, engie, quickness on a BS, the aegis spam, tomes on f2-f3 ....  You can be a pur tank on elem in PvP, and may bein silver/gold one of the strongest particulary with weaver spamming evades and barriers, but overall most of classes have better "passive" sustain and skills, trait with double usages and allow them to be more enduring with less risks, more "versatile", while on counter-intuitively on elem you need to specialize with huge drawbacks.

 

Otherwise it doesn't seem hammer has a lot of sustain. I have seen a block on earth I think, and that's all ... sword has barrier, evades, polaric leap ...

i think alot of people overexaggeate the problem which is my issue here.

now the fact that Ele naturally can flop over dead for missing mechanics while other classes can just Facetank the damage without a problem. is a concern. buts its nothing to do with the fact ele "cannot" Survive. because it can. it just requires more effort realistically.

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

2 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

ele has already plenty of tradeoff compared to other professions : low HP, melee range focus, no weapon swap......what are the real tradeoff on other professions like : engineer with scrapper and holosmith? -no tradeoff here either , guardian with dragon hunter and firebrand? - the elite virtues are better version of the core virtues in most cases...those are actually 2.0 versions...and I could go on and on

The entire point is for there to be a trade-off compared to the core profession, so that elite specs aren't just the base profession plus some extra, but something is replaced. So indeed dragon hunter and firebrand still count, as do holosmith and scrapper (no elite toolbelt skill). I'm just following the dev's stated intent here, it's about whether mechanics are replaced, not about whether they are better or not.

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

No barrier asside block on top of something that needs to be built

No resistance nor stability.

No reflects.

Overall in design so far seams to be the best of the elite specs.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[bluberblasen.9684]

the tradeoff is that hammer offers nothing special

 

* only 1 leap and this leap is reserved for healing 

* only one healing skill

*only one condi cleans ( and you have to hit your target)

* no "real" barrier

*only 1 stability ( and its in your trait line - so your elite trait is reserved for stability ) and we dont know the duration and cooldown in pvp

* no fields in all of the 24 ( 25 ) skills

* no evade frames

* only 1 block

* no projectile block

* very bad utility skills. The only  one that is useful is the stun breaker on 30 second cooldown ( pve ) we dont know the cooldown in pvp and wvw (when its higher than 40 in wvw its a wasted skill 

 

 

* the wells switch with your attunement so you cant throw your prefered field and play how you want.

* fields not following you

* no traits for bigger the wells radius or follow you.. 

* no traits that the wells stay for x seconds in your prefered attunement

* You have high cooldowns ( like all element weapons )

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by bluberblasen.9684

[fuzzyp.6295]

9 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

No barrier asside block on top of something that needs to be built

No resistance nor stability.

No reflects.

Overall in design so far seams to be the best of the elite specs.

Catalyst is shaping up to have one of the best stab generating skills in the game with Staunch Aura.

And anytime you perform any combo while in Earth you're granted a Magentic Aura. (10s cooldown) so reflects are kinda covered.

Edited September 20, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295

[bluberblasen.9684]

4 minutes ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

Catalyst is shaping up to have one of the best stab generating skills in the game with Staunch Aura.

And anytime you perform any combo while in Earth you're granted a Magentic Aura.

you mean your only 1 blast finisher in earth line every 15  / 30 seconds  ( pve , we dont know the cooldown in pvp ).. yeah thats  truthfully overpowered 😄 

Edited September 20, 2021 by bluberblasen.9684

[Jumpel.3972]

8 minutes ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

the tradeoff is that hammer offers nothing special

It's not a tradeoff because you can play catalyst without hammer

[fuzzyp.6295]

6 minutes ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

you mean your only 1 blast finisher in earth line every 15  / 30 seconds  ( pve , we dont know the cooldown in pvp ).. yeah thats true over powered 😄 

If you read the text on the trait, its listed as "gain an aura when you combo" not when you blast finish. So any combo, leap or blast even whirl or projectiles will give you an aura.

And Evasive Arcana, basically staple on all non ranged eles has a blast finisher in earth dodge which is always been fantastic for years.

 

Here I quoted the text: Gain an aura based on your current attunement when you combo. Gaining an aura grants you Elemental Empowerment. Auras can be gained this way once per attunement per interval.

Edited September 20, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295

[bluberblasen.9684]

3 minutes ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

If you read the text on the trait, its listed as "gain an aura when you combo" not when you blast finish. So any combo, leap or blast even whirl or projectiles will give you an aura.

All Evasive Arcana, basically staple on all non ranged eles has a blast finisher in earth dodge which is a sacha been fantastic for years.

no you didnt read 😄

Gain an aura based on your current attunement when you combo. Gaining an aura grants you Elemental Empowerment. 

 

Auras can be gained this way once per attunement per interval.

[fuzzyp.6295]

20 minutes ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

no you didnt read 😄

Gain an aura based on your current attunement when you combo. Gaining an aura grants you Elemental Empowerment. 

 

Auras can be gained this way once per attunement per interval.

...what exactly didnt I read here? I pointed out the 10 second ICD of the trait in my first post. You're the one pulling numbers out of the air saying its 15-30 second interval lol

EDIT: Maybe because I editted it in you missed that I included the 10s. But basically, this is how it will be working:
 

Edited September 20, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295

[bluberblasen.9684]

7 minutes ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

It's not a tradeoff because you can play catalyst without hammer

You are right, you can play it with all core weapons - so for me i prefer dual dagger ( like 9 years + ) 

 

But i think when you look at the new elite spec most people see catalyst + hammer so its  worth mentioning that hammer for itself is a mediocre weapon that offers nothing special for its own ( besides the spheres )